2007 Green Bay Packers Thread

[Packer487 3]

Quick reply then I'm out for the weekend. I can't pull myself away from this, it's like watching a train wreck.

Leftwich has never thrown more than 15 TDs in a year. He's never thrown for 3,000 yards in a season. He's completed 60% of his passes one time. He's not better than Favre. "He's still young" shouldn't factor into any of this. We're talking 2007.

Most GM's would take Trent Green over Brett Favre? He just got dumped in favor of Damon effing Huard.

Pennington has had one good season. I don't disagree that injuries derailed what was a pretty promising career. But he hasn't done anything since 2002. I'm takin' Favre. I do like Pennington though.

Yes, agreed, even though it will be Culpepper's job, then Russell's job, who are both better than Favre.

And there's the credibility flush we knew was coming. He's been nothing without Randy Moss. Blew out his knee in Minnesota but he was having a TERRIBLE year before that happened (6 TDs, 12 INTs in 7 games). As for Russell being better than Favre. My God. The guy hasn't signed an NFL contract, let alone worn an NFL uniform, or thrown a touchdown pass. But we're going to put him ahead of the guy who's about to break every passing record in the book? C'mon.

Roethlisberger is a good QB. But again, we're talking about someone who has never hit 20 touchdowns in a season. And last year was horrible for him. I'd go 50-50 because you can't discount him winning a SB already....even if I'm confident Favre would've done the same thing on that team. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll return to pre-accident form. And we'll see if he does.

Philip Rivers - No, simply based on SD's weapons, Strongly disagree here, despite SD's lack of weapons, Rivers is absolutely better than Favre right now. No doubt about it.

Umm....NFM#25 was saying that Rivers was better. And "despite SD's lack of weapons"? Most teams would kind of like to have LaDanian Tomlinson, Antonio Gates and that defense giving them great field position. Just sayin'.

Vince Young won some games last year and that's what matters. But let's be realistic here. The guy barely completed 50% of his passes, he threw more picks than touchdowns, and even when you add in his rushing yards he didn't crack 200 yards/game of production. I don't deny he's going to be a great quarterback, but again....let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Joey Harrington - Yes, Joey would never see the light of day if not for him getting soooo lucky with a no culpepper situation, and a no vick situation. It should be Vick, so theres a big NO for Favre being better. But i'll give you the benefit of the doubt cause techniqly Joey is the starter right now.

God...you're one of those people who actually thought Michael Vick was a good quarterback aren't you. Ugh. He's never playing in the NFL again, though, so he's pretty irrelevant in this discussion.

Delhomme is a good player. I won't take issue with that one, even if I disagree.

Tony Romo - 50-50, Strongly disagree. Romo is definitely better than Favre. I would want Romo in Detroit well before I would want Favre. Romo is just all around a better QB.

Again, let's not get ahead of ourselves. He had a very up and down year with one great game against Tampa Bay (5 TDs, 0 INTs).

Eli Manning - Tough one because of Eli's potential, but to play devils advocate I'll say No, Disagreed, I definitely have Eli ranked above Favre. Not by leaps and bounds by any means. But he's definitely ranked above Brett.

I can see it. I don't know about "definitely" but I can see it.

And I went back and recounted, and even with all the changes you made, you had him better than 14 of the QBs in the league (not 12). Losman, Frye, Cutler, Schaub, Huard, McCown, Leinart, Joey Ballgame, Grossman, Kitna, Jackson, Garcia, Campbell, Smith. And you were pretty generous with some of the QBs that you were taking.

As it is, you've got:

Favre-Better than 14

50-50s-4 Qbs

QBs Better than Favre-13

So umm....even you have Favre better than more QBs than he's not better than.

Maybe 4-5 years ago he was better than half the QBs in the league

Yeah I'd say so. Since 4-5 years ago he finished 2nd in the MVP voting to Gannon and all.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Packer487 basically summed up most of what I would have said, but I'm going to disagree with him on Delhomme. I don't see anything too special out of him other than his breakout season. Nothing since.

Romo has more potential, but at this point (which I said over and over, and which is key to this debate) he is not better. Great start midseason last year, and finished the season in the sh*tter.

Trent Green........Please tell me you're kidding.

Sidenote: For a guy that was so sure Favre wasn't better than half the QB's in the league, your numbers don't seem to support your theory.

Hey Packer487, before I forget, I'm going to the game Saturday night! :banana:

[Guest DetroitIan]

Leftwich has never thrown more than 15 TDs in a year. He's never thrown for 3,000 yards in a season. He's completed 60% of his passes one time. He's not better than Favre. "He's still young" shouldn't factor into any of this. We're talking 2007.

Learn to read chump. I said that was 50-50. I never said Leftwich is the absolute better QB.

Most GM's would take Trent Green over Brett Favre? He just got dumped in favor of Damon effing Huard.

You just showed your complete lack of football knowledge there. They didnt let Green go because he isnt as good as Huard. They let him go to save $$$. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument there is a joke. Anyone here would rather have a healthy Trent Green, over a geriatric Favre.

And there's the credibility flush we knew was coming. He's been nothing without Randy Moss. Blew out his knee in Minnesota but he was having a TERRIBLE year before that happened (6 TDs, 12 INTs in 7 games). As for Russell being better than Favre. My God. The guy hasn't signed an NFL contract, let alone worn an NFL uniform, or thrown a touchdown pass. But we're going to put him ahead of the guy who's about to break every passing record in the book? C'mon.

I'll give you one thing. I did possibly jump the gun in saying Russell is better. Cause who knows what might happen. But as for Donte, even though he hasnt proved alot without Moss, he brings way more to the table than Favre does. If he stays healthy that is. He's hardly been able to remain healthy enough to even find out where his game is at currently. But the fact that he's fast, very powerful, and still has many years ahead of him, puts him above Favre in my book. Unless he sucks it up this season with the Raiders. In which case I would re-assess this one. But for now, Culpepper over Favre.

Roethlisberger is a good QB. But again, we're talking about someone who has never hit 20 touchdowns in a season.

This, coming from the guy who keeps defending Favre by saying, "Stats arent everything." How many times are you gonna flip flop there buddy? Do stats matter? Or dont they? Make up your ******* mind. But regardless of Ben not hitting 20 TDs, he is currently much more coveted than Favre. And for good reason. Favre from 5 years ago, is definitely better than Ben now. But presently, Ben takes this one.

God...you're one of those people who actually thought Michael Vick was a good quarterback aren't you. Ugh. He's never playing in the NFL again, though, so he's pretty irrelevant in this discussion.

Trust me, I dont think Vick is some amazing QB by any means. But is the 2007 Vick better than the 2007 Favre? Absolutely. Although you may be right, we may never see Vick in the NFL again. But If this whole dog fighting thing never happend, I guaruntee if Favre were to retire, most of your fellow Packer fans would take Vick in a heartbeat. He brings way more to the table than the 2007 Favre(if Vick was actually playing right now that is).

And I went back and recounted, and even with all the changes you made, you had him better than 14 of the QBs in the league (not 12). Losman, Frye, Cutler, Schaub, Huard, McCown, Leinart, Joey Ballgame, Grossman, Kitna, Jackson, Garcia, Campbell, Smith. And you were pretty generous with some of the QBs that you were taking.

My bad, I did count wrong. But as I said before, you can hardly count McCown and Joey the Great. So actually, I would say realistically he's better than 12 starting NFL quarterbacks. And most of the 50-50s were damn close. So as I said in the first place, Favre is not better than half the QBs in the league. And once this season gets about 10 games in, I have a feeling a few of those 50-50s will turn into "NOs." So like I originally said, he is better than some, but not half. Which is still really good. But nowhere even near where he once was, just a short 4 seasons ago. Watching Favre deteriorate before your eyes must suck huh?

Edited August 17, 2007 by DetroitIan

[Viperar 16]

going to see the opening kick off at giant stadium vs the packers. My roomate is a huge giants fan, and he knows im a packers fan so hes taking me for free. Also my first NFL game so im pretty excited.

If youre wondering how I am a packers fan, i was born in Stevens Point

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

For anyone that's interested, I had an absolute blast at the game Saturday night. Every thing seemed to go right for the Pack while nothing worked out for the Seahawks. The only regret I have was not being able to see Holmgren's facial expressions as the game wore on. I heard his looks just got more and more pissed off.

Edit: DP

Edited August 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Packer487 3]

For anyone that's interested, I had an absolute blast at the game Saturday night. Every thing seemed to go right for the Pack while nothing worked out for the Seahawks. The only regret I have was not being able to see Holmgren's facial expressions as the game wore on. I heard his looks just got more and more pissed off.

Edit: DP

That game was AWESOME! I'm glad you had a good time...preseason or not, there's nothing like seeing a game at Lambeau. I watched the game on the DVR last night once I got back from my trip and it was hysterical to watch Holmgren. He wanted out of there by the end of the first quarter. He looked like he wanted to throw up the entire game.

That was an impressive performance. Again, I can't help but think back to last year's preseason when it looked like the Packers didn't belong on the same field as San Diego. Now they're playing quality teams and Seattle was the one that looked like a high school team. The Packers left a lot of points on the field in that game, with Thompson throwing 2 bad picks inside the 10 and giving back 2 takeaways on penalties. They could've been in the mid-60s really easily.

I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm, because it was preseason and the Seahawks weren't playing their QB, LT, or RT. But from the start of the game on, it was an impressive performance.

Good things:

-Cullen Jenkins dominated once again. He's looking to be an impact player at DE, what with the way he finished off last year and the way this preseason is going.

-I love the depth on the defensive line. They've got 8-10 guys in the mix, and a lot of them can play multiple positions. Not only is that good for in-game rotations, but it's good in case of injury.

-Atari Bigby is a mad man. I don't know that it's the best idea in the world to leave your feet to try and hurdle a blocker like he did, but it worked. That guy can really lay the wood. I don't know that he's the coverage safety that we need, but he looks to be a pretty solid "in the box" safety.

-Will Blackmon. How long has it been since the Packers have actually had a threat in the return game? Probably since Rossum was here? I loved the pick when they drafted him and it's nice to see him making an impact. Hopefully he stays healthy, because he's got some talent.

-The battle for the 3-4-5 CB slots is going to get interesting. Bush and Blackmon had great games, Williams played pretty well. Dendy and Walker didn't (though I thought Walker's PI penalty could've been called uncatchable).

-James Jones. Geezus. This is one of the few times that the beej the GMs give all their draft picks to the media actually seems to have been legit. Those "He never drops a pass" "Anytime he goes up in traffic, he comes down with the ball" comments look to have been pretty accurate. That catch he had over Trufant was just ridiculous. And I like that it was against a solid player and not a 3rd string scrub. Great hands, good instincts, seems to be a fairly smart player, strong, runs good routes, and he's not scared to work the middle.

-Brandon Jackson looked really solid. He was fast making his one cut...wasn't dancing in the backfield. And once he made his decision he got through the hole in a hurry. I think we'll be ok with him and Morency back there.

-I'm not sold that "he's back", but it was really nice to see Bubba Franks have a nice game. I wonder if Favre made a concerted effort to get him the ball.

-Both our kickers were spot on again. I think that job is Crosby's to lose though. Hopefully we can get a late round pick for whichever kicker they decide to dump.

-Aaron Rodgers played really well again. I said last week that it looks like he's been paying attention to Favre and he showed it again with that "shot put" pass that should've been caught for a TD. It's nice to see him pull the Mr. August routine that Hass used to. If he's going to be a starter in this league, he should be able to dominate any team's backups and he is.

-No major injuries, though I'm bummed that Bodiford got hurt. Blackmon won that KR job anyway though.

The not so good:

-Penalties gave back a couple of takeaways.

-Paul Thompson showed that he's not ready to be the #3 QB just yet. The good thing is that there's no reason they shouldn't be able to get him on the practice squad.

-Strangely, nothing out of Greg Jennings.

-I would've liked to have seen something out of Aaron Rouse. He's had a really quiet preseason. Don't know if I've heard his name one time.

Overall though, that stuff is just nit-picking. They dominated that game start to finish. Got to the QB, took the ball away, put points on the board, got impact plays out of the defense and ST, and only gave up something like 2 "explosive plays" of their own: Bishop took on the blocker with the wrong shoulder and it opened a lane for that TD run and Collins had a WR wrapped up, Barnett tried to finish him off and took Collins out instead, leading to a big gain. Neither are anything to get worried about. The safeties were really solid last night. And I love how physical this team is.

It doesn't mean Super Bowl or anything, but it's clear how much the depth on this team has improved, and how much a year has helped some of these guys. It's night and day from last preseason. Next week's game against Jacksonville should be a good one. The 3rd preseason game is the one that the starters will play the most in and I'd guess the most game planning will go on. And the Jags are a solid team.

You gonna get to any games in the regular season, NFM25? I'm going to try to get up there for 2 or 3, but I'm not sure when...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

You gonna get to any games in the regular season, NFM25? I'm going to try to get up there for 2 or 3, but I'm not sure when...

Right now, I'm confirmed for Week 6 against Washington. I should be able to make atleast 1 or 2 more, but I'll know more as the season nears.

Sidenote: The company I work for owns 1/2 a box (25 yard line, South End Zone, Visitors side) but rented it out last year and this year. I'm looking forward to getting it back next season, since I generally get to spend 2-3 games per season in it. That being said, while its nice and comfortable, its still nothing like being outside with the fans of Lambeau. Maybe its because I grew up sitting outside, but to me that's so special and a totally different feeling than being inside.

Like you said, nothing like being at Lambeau Field for a game. The mystique alone sets it apart from all other stadiums.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Tonights Matchup:

@

The Line:

Jacksonville -3, with an O/U of 38

Let's Go Packers!

Edited August 23, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Packer487 3]

This should be a good one tonight. Jacksonville's defense was really good last year and supposedly their starters are going to play well into the third quarter. Mike McCarthy has said that he's not going to play his starters that long because there are so many battles for the backup positions, he wants to get a better look at some of those guys.

So I don't really expect a win tonight since JVille's starters are going to play longer (Possibly significantly longer) but it'll still be a really nice test for the team. And if tonight goes well, I think we've definitely got a reason to be excited about this season.

And for God's sake, no major injuries! I'm hoping the fact that they cut Underwood and Ferguson to give them time to hook on with another team will buy them some karma from the football Gods this year....

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Tonights Matchup:

@

The Line:

Tennessee -7, with an O/U of 37

Even though its irrelevant, it'd be nice to finish the preseason 3-1.

[Packer487 3]

Tonights Matchup:

@

The Line:

Tennessee -7, with an O/U of 37

Even though its irrelevant, it'd be nice to finish the preseason 3-1.

What I want to know is how much of a degenerate do you have to be to bet on preseason football?

It would be nice to get another win, but the starters are going to play like 1 series and then get out. Give me no injuries and another good outing out of Aaron Rodgers, James Jones, Mason Crosby, Jarrett Bush, Will Blackmon, and hopefully show some semblance of a running game and I'm happy.

That game against the Jags was fine. They did nothing against GB's first string defense, the offense moved the ball even if the running game stalled again, and they led 10-0 when all the important players came out. And thank God Driver is supposedly ok....

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

What I want to know is how much of a degenerate do you have to be to bet on preseason football?

It would be nice to get another win, but the starters are going to play like 1 series and then get out. Give me no injuries and another good outing out of Aaron Rodgers, James Jones, Mason Crosby, Jarrett Bush, Will Blackmon, and hopefully show some semblance of a running game and I'm happy.

That game against the Jags was fine. They did nothing against GB's first string defense, the offense moved the ball even if the running game stalled again, and they led 10-0 when all the important players came out. And thank God Driver is supposedly ok....

To each is own I guess. I just have the O/U listed because it was right next to the "spread" on the site I went to. A little "Copy & Paste" action.

I never bet on football games, other than with guys around work (Packers vs. Bears/Vikings games). However, I certainly wouldn't bet online, and especially on the preseason. Talk about unpredictable..........and degenerate.

Sidenote: Last night I dreamt that Mason Crosby won the starting kicker position for the regular season. Prophetic?

[Packer487 3]

To each is own I guess. I just have the O/U listed because it was right next to the "spread" on the site I went to. A little "Copy & Paste" action.

I never bet on football games, other than with guys around work (Packers vs. Bears/Vikings games). However, I certainly wouldn't bet online, and especially on the preseason. Talk about unpredictable..........and degenerate.

Sidenote: Last night I dreamt that Mason Crosby won the starting kicker position for the regular season. Prophetic?

Oh I know, I wasn't criticizing you for putting it on there. I like looking at the spreads and O/U as much as anyone. I just think it's funny that there are people out there who will bet on preseason football. Might as well just throw down on red in roulette. The odds are probably better than trying to make money betting on backup (or third-string) football players. If I'm putting money on a football game, it's going to be on guys who are somewhat predicatable.

Crosby is going to win the job. He's been more accurate (though not significantly...86% vs. 81%...both pretty damn good) throughout camp, he's got the bigger leg on field goals (though Rayner has him on kickoffs), and he's signed for 5 years vs. the one-year contract Rayner is on. Rayner is a good kicker, but Crosby has a chance to be special. Here's hoping that the Giants and Cowboys both have kicking problems in their last preseason game so we can finagle a draft pick out of someone for Rayner.

I'm back in Michigan so I can't see the game tonight. There's a couple battles I wish I could see. I'm really curious who the #5 CB is going to be. Bush and Blackmon have made the team already, but Walker, Dendy and Williams are all gunning for that 5th CB slot. Walker's really started to play pretty well, but he's expensive for a #5 corner and if they keep him that might hurt the compensatory pick they'll eventually get for losing Ahman Green and David Martin. Dendy was decent last year and Williams has shown some flashes of potential. I feel like he's more likely to end up on the practice squad though.

I also want to get a look at Wynn, because I'm pretty sure he's playing. They've praised him when he's been on the field, but the kid hasn't stayed healthy for more than a week in all of camp. It'd be nice if he would show something tonight, especially with Jackson and Morency out.

[Packer487 3]

What a nice start to the season! Even though the offense was junk, they knocked off one of the best teams in the NFC. And a team that has completely OWNED us the last 5 years (31-9 last year or something like that).

Despite no TD passes, Favre actually was pretty good. The plays he made on the drive where GB hit the tying field goal were vintage Favre. And they're the reason that even if GB went 0-16 I was happy as hell that Favre was coming back for another season.

The defense and special teams were why we won this game though. The defense gave up under 300 yards and 13 points to an offense that was #2 in yardage and #6 in scoring last year. They held McNabb under 50% completions, and when they needed a stop when Philly started with the ball on GB's 38 needing a FG to take the lead, the D pushed them back and forced a punt.

Then the special teams: 2 fumble recoveries, a touchdown, and our friggin incredible rookie kicker hitting from 37, 43, and 53 yards out, including the game winner. I absolutely love it.

I'm as big of a homer as there is, and even I didn't think they would beat Philly. Especially after I heard Morency and Jennings were inactive. This is the happiest I've been after a pro football game in a long, long time.

If they find any semblance of a running game, this is a playoff team.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The schedule on the first page (Post #2) has been updated to reflect the first game's outcome. I will continue to update this.

Eli's camp is giving mixed reports about whether or not he'll play Sunday, and Ward will be getting his first start. Our defense looked great against a solid all-around attack of a healthy Philadelphia team. Here's hoping they can be even better against an injured offense.

If the offense can get their act together we've got just as good of a shot as they do.

Go Pack Go!

[Packer487 3]

149.

I'll have more tomorrow, but yeah. Most wins in NFL history.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

This is overdue, but my avatar reflected his accomplishment on Monday already. Anyway, Congrats Brett!

A great win on all ends (defense, special teams & *offense*) this past Sunday. We have an incredibly tough matchup with what I consider a top 3 team in the NFL this coming Sunday. Honestly, even though the game is at Lambeau, I'll be thrilled if we can sneak out with a win. I just think SD is too strong on both sides of the ball for our boys to pull this one out.

If our D-line can find a way to stuff LT, and if our backs can cover Gates, we've got a shot.

Go Pack Go!

[Packer487 3]

Well this is a different attitude than he's had the past couple of years:

Asked the inevitable question about his future during Wednesday's national conference call, quarterback Brett Favre acknowledged that he could be back in 2008, depending on how this year goes.

"I know where you're going. First of all, we're 2-0 right now, but there are 14 games left. Who knows what happens?" said Favre, who was named the NFC offensive player of the week, the 11th time he's been so honored. "I do know this, (if) for some unforeseen reason we go 4-12 or whatever, (the Packers) are going to go in a different direction, whether I like it or not. That's just the facts, especially at 17 years and my salary.

"But if I play at a high enough level and we, meaning this team and organization, come close or get into the playoffs, have some success, but are just a little bit away, (and the Packers) still feel like I can play, want to pay me what they're paying me to lead this team, and I still felt like I have it left, yes, I see no reasons why (I wouldn't come back)."

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Well this is a different attitude than he's had the past couple of years:

Asked the inevitable question about his future during Wednesday's national conference call, quarterback Brett Favre acknowledged that he could be back in 2008, depending on how this year goes.

"I know where you're going. First of all, we're 2-0 right now, but there are 14 games left. Who knows what happens?" said Favre, who was named the NFC offensive player of the week, the 11th time he's been so honored. "I do know this, (if) for some unforeseen reason we go 4-12 or whatever, (the Packers) are going to go in a different direction, whether I like it or not. That's just the facts, especially at 17 years and my salary.

"But if I play at a high enough level and we, meaning this team and organization, come close or get into the playoffs, have some success, but are just a little bit away, (and the Packers) still feel like I can play, want to pay me what they're paying me to lead this team, and I still felt like I have it left, yes, I see no reasons why (I wouldn't come back)."

Great to hear. If this team can continue to grow and stays healthy next season, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't be considered a contender. With Favre back slinging the ball, what a picture perfect end to his career to have the chance to play for his second ring. Here's hoping!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Dinosaur is pretty useless at this point, and has been for a long time. I don't know why he keeps coming back. I mean, does he really think the Packers have any chance at a SuperBowl or something with their current roster? I mean, if he does, he's really been knocked around too many times.

Favre used to be good, but I just don't think he is anymore, so why does he keep playing?

Then again, I'm not a Packers fan, so maybe I don't know everything that comes into play of his decision. I just think he's far past his prime.

Isn't it amazing what a "Dinosaur" can do!

Favre wins NFC Player of the Week for the 11th time!

[Packer487 3]

Favre wins NFC Player of the Week for the 11th time!

Not bad for someone who is apparently not better than Byron Leftwich or Daunte Culpepper.

[Viperar 16]

packers looking strong

[Packer487 3]

Favre is unreal.

I never thought this team could start out 3-0 against three playoff teams from last year.

Dallas is probably still the favorite in the eyes of the world if they beat Chicago tonight, but there's not a team in the NFC that even remotely scares me at this point (and even assuming a Cowboys win, we've still been more impressive).

I'm also excited to see what this offense can do now that they KNOW Jennings can play. I can't imagine that they put too much in the gameplan for him, since they didn't know until like Friday/Saturday if he could play.

It also looked like the running game would work today, but the coaches were smart enough to realize that against a team like San Diego you can't throw possessions away just in the name of establishing the run. Especially when the passing game was working like it was.

Did I mention that Favre is absolutely amazing?

-Tim

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Seriously, what can I say about this team? I feel as dumbfounded as LT was at the post game conference (but in a good way ). Before I get into it, I'd like to give a mad for Brett on tying Marino's record. Way to go "Dinosaur".

I never in my wildest dreams thought the Packers would be 3-0 at this point, and to top it off, all of their wins have come against playoff teams from last year.

This was the first week our defense didn't look particularly strong throughout the entire game, but thats expected against an offense like San Diego's. However, they made the stops when they needed to, and that's the most important thing.

For the second week in a row our offense looked strong. The only difference was that this week it was against a solid Defense. San Diego is ranked near the top of the league in that department, and Brett carved them up. 369 yards, 3 Touchdowns, and 0 Interceptions. That's how you beat a team as good as SD.

This team is hungry, and they look extremely strong. Once again, if they can get their run game going as well, this team can challenge anyone in the NFC.

[Viperar 16]

good post NFM, although i feel like asking their running game to come to par with the offensive standards might be asking a bit much