Niedermayer to return next season?

[Guest DetroitIan]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=217042&hubname=nhl

I sure hope this doesnt happen. Cause up until this point, it's been clear that the Ducks are not as good as they were last year. With potentially no Selanne, no Niedermayer, no Penner. I thought it was a certainty that the Ducks would be going down hill. But IMO, even if they lose Selanne, and even though they lost Penner. If Scott Niedermayer returns, they will be right up there where they were last season. Im guessing he would have to take a drastic paycut. But who knows, he just might. And with adding Bert and Schneider, Niedermayer returning would be insanely huge. Im personally crossing my fingers for Scotty boy to retire. But obviously he still has enough skill to play. So It wouldnt suprise me one bit to see him return.

[Opie 308]

His contract is already set at 6.75mil for this season and next. Now he can take a salary reduction however if it real drastic I am sure the NHLPA will step in and say not so fast.

However even with him back they are less of a team than they were.

Basing off of last years stats alone they have become worse with the loss of Penner and the addition of Bert. They got a good deal older, I am not sold on Pronger being that good. He is living on his past rep, and the fact that people think he is a great hitter, he is a dirty hitter and plays with a mean streak, but I am baffled by how he ended up a norris candidate. Niedermayer I see but not pronger. IMHO!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

What do you mean he has to take a pay cut? He doesnt have to do anything to return other than return, and he'll earn the 6.75M hes earning on his current contract. The Ducks have enough cap space to absorb that salary even with the signings of Bertuzzi and Schneider.

And youre right, if the Ducks keep Niedermayer, they are instantly the #1 team in the NHL once again. Niedermayer is one of the best players in the league and a top 4 of Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, and Schneider, well thats an ALL STAR game worthy defense. Nobody else comes close. I dont care if they lose Selanne or Penner, they are cup favorites once again barring serious injuries..

His contract is already set at 6.75mil for this season and next. Now he can take a salary reduction however if it real drastic I am sure the NHLPA will step in and say not so fast.

However even with him back they are less of a team than they were.

Basing off of last years stats alone they have become worse with the loss of Penner and the addition of Bert. They got a good deal older, I am not sold on Pronger being that good. He is living on his past rep, and the fact that people think he is a great hitter, he is a dirty hitter and plays with a mean streak, but I am baffled by how he ended up a norris candidate. Niedermayer I see but not pronger. IMHO!

Dont be a homer. They could have an ECHL team up front and still be contenders.

Pronger-Niedermayer

Beauchemin-Schneider

Thats just absolutely sick. Most teams would die for ONE of those guys, let alone all FOUR of them. Giguere gets another free pass playing in front of the best defense in probably a decade and all of those 4 guys can dominate on the PP.

Their PP units are gonna make the rest of the leagues PK units feel like they are constantly 5 on 3

[Opie 308]

I am sorry for my "homer" comments but please tell me what Pronger has ever done without a big name as a D pairing.

While Lids, and Neidermayer have been norris candidates with veritable nobodies next to them. (In the past not last year)

I honestly do not see the attraction to Pronger, he is a very good player, notice my point of contention was him being a Norris Candidate, but he was not the missing piece to that team, Neidermayer was.

Put an ECHL team in front of those 4 and you have a last place team, you may have been exaggerating, but you need offense and forwards that can play D. They lost 2 vital pieces to there offense and replaced one of them with a guy who has had a recent history of having trouble getting on the ice, and his glory days are a ways away from him.

I also think you are overrating Beaucheim, and overrating Schneids D ability.

He was a great fit in Det, because he was allowed to be an offesive defenseman. Again a very very good player, but I would say Detroit's D is a healthy Kronwall or a Danny Markov signing, or Lilja having a great year away from being better.

Lids > Neids

Ralf > Schneids

Cheli < Pronger

Markov > Beauchemin or

Healthy Kronwall > Beauchemin or

Lilja Break out year > Beauchemin *(Break out year is imperative here)

Also that pp will miss Teemu badly!!!

again all IMO

Edited August 28, 2007 by Opie

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I am sorry for my "homer" comments but please tell me what Pronger has ever done without a big name as a D pairing.

While Lids, and Neidermayer have been norris candidates with veritable nobodies next to them. (In the past not last year)

I honestly do not see the attraction to Pronger, he is a very good player, notice my point of contention was him being a Norris Candidate, but he was not the missing piece to that team, Neidermayer was.

Put an ECHL team in front of those 4 and you have a last place team, you may have been exaggerating, but you need offense and forwards that can play D. They lost 2 vital pieces to there offense and replaced one of them with a guy who has had a recent history of having trouble getting on the ice, and his glory days are a ways away from him.

I also think you are overrating Beaucheim, and overrating Schneids D ability.

He was a great fit in Det, because he was allowed to be an offesive defenseman. Again a very very good player, but I would say Detroit's D is a healthy Kronwall or a Danny Markov signing, or Lilja having a great year away from being better.

Lids > Neids

Ralf > Schneids

Cheli < Pronger

Markov > Beauchemin or

Healthy Kronwall > Beauchemin or

Lilja Break out year > Beauchemin *(Break out year is imperative here)

Also that pp will miss Teemu badly!!!

again all IMO

Um Pronger is about 20 times better than Chelios, and Beauchemin is so much better than Markov and a healthy Kronwall its not even funny. Plus youre completely missing the point. You have 3 defenseman on the back (Pronger, Niedermayer, and Beauchemin) who are ALL complete defense at a high level - they can produce offensively and shut down top lines game in and game out. Then you have Schneider who is a top 5 PP QB. with the shots and movement that those 4 guys are going to be able to create on the PP, all you basically need is a decent net presence and youve got a PP that can net 2 goals a game. Not to mention having Getzlaf, Macdonald and Kunitz up front with Perry and Bert for support, youre absolutely crazy if you dont think Anaheim has the best chance to snag the cup more than any other team.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

What do you mean he has to take a pay cut? He doesnt have to do anything to return other than return, and he'll earn the 6.75M hes earning on his current contract. The Ducks have enough cap space to absorb that salary even with the signings of Bertuzzi and Schneider.

And youre right, if the Ducks keep Niedermayer, they are instantly the #1 team in the NHL once again. Niedermayer is one of the best players in the league and a top 4 of Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, and Schneider, well thats an ALL STAR game worthy defense. Nobody else comes close. I dont care if they lose Selanne or Penner, they are cup favorites once again barring serious injuries..

Dont be a homer. They could have an ECHL team up front and still be contenders.

Pronger-Niedermayer

Beauchemin-Schneider

Thats just absolutely sick. Most teams would die for ONE of those guys, let alone all FOUR of them. Giguere gets another free pass playing in front of the best defense in probably a decade and all of those 4 guys can dominate on the PP.

Their PP units are gonna make the rest of the leagues PK units feel like they are constantly 5 on 3

didn't we shut thier so called pp unit down in the playoffs? i can't remember.

[Opie 308]

Um Pronger is about 20 times better than Chelios, and Beauchemin is so much better than Markov and a healthy Kronwall its not even funny. Plus youre completely missing the point. You have 3 defenseman on the back (Pronger, Niedermayer, and Beauchemin) who are ALL complete defense at a high level - they can produce offensively and shut down top lines game in and game out. Then you have Schneider who is a top 5 PP QB. with the shots and movement that those 4 guys are going to be able to create on the PP, all you basically need is a decent net presence and youve got a PP that can net 2 goals a game. Not to mention having Getzlaf, Macdonald and Kunitz up front with Perry and Bert for support, youre absolutely crazy if you dont think Anaheim has the best chance to snag the cup more than any other team.

What did Bertuzzi do for the PP last year in Det?

One PP line does not make their PP the best in the league, what does their second unit look like?

Penner and Teemu gone to me is a huge subtraction from that team that they have not replaced.

I did not miss your point, I just think you are overestimating them.

That team will have less offense than most of the teams in the West. San Jose has a just as good a shot at the cup as Anaheim, IMO.

Beauchmin is not better than Krowall when healthy, again IMO.

And there offense is still short one forward, they have 1.3mil left in the cap (with Neids) and need another forward. Granted it doesn't have to be top 6 like Det needs, however if they sign a 3rd liner at a .5-1 mil price tag and have an injury to any one top 6 forward or top 4 d-men they are screwed. This is not a very deep team. Seeing as they are still one forward short.

I will give you they have a great Defense, I never argued that, in fact the only point I made was that Pronger was not a Norris worthy D man, which you some how took as I don't think they have the best shot at the cup.

I don't think they have the best shot at the cup, lucky guess on your part (or you are in my head, GET OUT!!) because not only did Teemu get 96 points for them last year he also played 82 games.

Who will replace his points, and don't tell me that the D will be so good they don't need to make it up.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I am sorry for my "homer" comments but please tell me what Pronger has ever done without a big name as a D pairing.

While Lids, and Neidermayer have been norris candidates with veritable nobodies next to them. (In the past not last year)

I honestly do not see the attraction to Pronger, he is a very good player, notice my point of contention was him being a Norris Candidate, but he was not the missing piece to that team, Neidermayer was.

Put an ECHL team in front of those 4 and you have a last place team, you may have been exaggerating, but you need offense and forwards that can play D. They lost 2 vital pieces to there offense and replaced one of them with a guy who has had a recent history of having trouble getting on the ice, and his glory days are a ways away from him.

I also think you are overrating Beaucheim, and overrating Schneids D ability.

He was a great fit in Det, because he was allowed to be an offesive defenseman. Again a very very good player, but I would say Detroit's D is a healthy Kronwall or a Danny Markov signing, or Lilja having a great year away from being better.

Lids > Neids

Ralf > Schneids

Cheli < Pronger

Markov > Beauchemin or

Healthy Kronwall > Beauchemin or

Lilja Break out year > Beauchemin *(Break out year is imperative here)

Also that pp will miss Teemu badly!!!

again all IMO

I hate Pronger because he is a piece of garbage. However, I have to disagree with your comment about him needing a great partner on defense in order for him to look good. He played great in Edmonton when he had nobody to pair up with. Also, he's better than Macinnis or Niedermayer, so it doesn't matter that they were his teammates at one time.

[Opie 308]

Not so sure pronger is better than neids but just my opinion.

[sticknmove 0]

If Neids returns the Ducks are hands down the best team in hockey, both on paper and in reality. Not saying that they will win for sure, but I am saying they are presason favorites.

[Opie 308]

I reiterate my point, where does the offense come from?

Selanne led them in most of their offensive categories including g, pts, +/-, ppg and ppa.

I am not denying the potential their D has, but how will they score. And that unbelievable power play they will have, is missing the biggest piece from last year.

Don't get me wrong Schneids will help, but not 25 ppg and 23 ppa.

They are going to be with out their #1 forward, if the wings lost Dats or Z but added Beauchemin for Chelios, would det automatically be the lock for the Stanley cup. I guess that would have to mean that Andy MacDonald is as good as whichever wing you take away, Z or Dats.

I say this and don't think Det is the odds on favorite for the cup. I think San Jose is the front runner in the west at this point.

SJ has better forwards than Det and Ana, has better goaltending (although Hasek was great last year, I am not sure he can repeat it).

SJ's weakness is defense, but at least they have Rivet and McClaren and 13 mil left before the cap.

There are a lot more things that go into a team having the best shot at the cup than their Defense.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I am sorry for my "homer" comments but please tell me what Pronger has ever done without a big name as a D pairing.

While Lids, and Neidermayer have been norris candidates with veritable nobodies next to them. (In the past not last year)

I honestly do not see the attraction to Pronger, he is a very good player, notice my point of contention was him being a Norris Candidate, but he was not the missing piece to that team, Neidermayer was.

Put an ECHL team in front of those 4 and you have a last place team, you may have been exaggerating, but you need offense and forwards that can play D. They lost 2 vital pieces to there offense and replaced one of them with a guy who has had a recent history of having trouble getting on the ice, and his glory days are a ways away from him.

I also think you are overrating Beaucheim, and overrating Schneids D ability.

He was a great fit in Det, because he was allowed to be an offesive defenseman. Again a very very good player, but I would say Detroit's D is a healthy Kronwall or a Danny Markov signing, or Lilja having a great year away from being better.

Lids > Neids

Ralf > Schneids

Cheli < Pronger

Markov > Beauchemin or

Healthy Kronwall > Beauchemin or

Lilja Break out year > Beauchemin *(Break out year is imperative here)

Also that pp will miss Teemu badly!!!

again all IMO

Oh come on Opie! Markov and especially "break out Lilja" arent even close to Beauchemin! At this point you definitely cant say a healthy Kronwall is better either. How has he proved that so far? If Neidermayer comes back, you're looking at one the best defense corps ever imo from top to bottom. Nobody else would come close to matching what they'd have. Also , as was pointed out by YoungGuns, you cant just match Chelios up against Pronger. That would be like a Ducks fan doing Lidstom > O'Donnell just so he can save Neidermayer for a matchup with someone he's better than. You're skewing it to get the result you want! So to be fair lets line it up from best to worst:

Lidstrom > Neidermayer

Rafalski < Pronger

Kronwall < Beauchemin

*break out Lilja* << Schneider

Chelios = O'Donnell

Lebda/Quincey/Meech < Hnidy

Now, even if you add lets say, Markov to the equation...it still doesnt change the results.

[Opie 308]

I paired them up the way I did because Rafalski and Schneids bring the same thing to the table same as Lids and Neids, Pronger and Chelios, not because of helping my argument.

I see your point of Chelios = O'Donnell so I guess that would leave me at

Lids > Neids

?? < Pronger ( no one I put there will be a fair comparrison, but that was why I had cheli there)

Rafalski > Schneids

Kronwall < beauchemin (my opinion, this is closer than most of you think)

Lilja > Hnidy

anyother wing Dman < Hnidy.

But if you go to offense the comparrisons are no where near close. And I still don't think the wings are the favorite in the west.

I have conceded the D will be great, but that alone does not make them the front runner for the cup.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Giguere gets another free pass playing in front of the best defense in probably a decade

I assure you- Giggy was just as amazing 1-on-1 as he was with two guys infront of him. He literally stole games from the Wings in the WCF.

[Guest DetroitIan]

I paired them up the way I did because Rafalski and Schneids bring the same thing to the table same as Lids and Neids, Pronger and Chelios, not because of helping my argument.

I see your point of Chelios = O'Donnell so I guess that would leave me at

Lids > Neids

?? < Pronger ( no one I put there will be a fair comparrison, but that was why I had cheli there)

Rafalski > Schneids

Kronwall < beauchemin (my opinion, this is closer than most of you think)

Lilja > Hnidy

anyother wing Dman < Hnidy.

But if you go to offense the comparrisons are no where near close. And I still don't think the wings are the favorite in the west.

I have conceded the D will be great, but that alone does not make them the front runner for the cup.

Gotta go with the crowd on this one. Even though I hate Pronger with a passion. He's still a great defenseman. And with Niedermayer possibly returning. They have possibly the best defense in the NHL. So basically, all they have to do is get over the loss of Selanne and Penner. Bertuzzi will certainly help. And so will the other countless talented forwards they have. I hate the Ducks more than most poeple on these boards. But lets be real here. With Niedermayer returning, they would be a huge contender, and might possibly be the first team to repeat since our Red Wings. But like I said, Im keeping the hope alive that Scotty is hanging em up.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I assure you- Giggy was just as amazing 1-on-1 as he was with two guys infront of him. He literally stole games from the Wings in the WCF.

I don't remember a single spectacular save that he made. In fact, I don't even remember any times the wings even had a one on one opportunity. There were very few odd man rushes at all, and 95 times out of 100 he did in fact have 2 defensmen in front of him; usually two of the best defensmen to play the game at that.

Giguere has to be one of the most overrated goalies in the leauge.

edit: to jump in on the defense conversation

yes the ducks' d is great and it will be even better if Niedermayer stays another year, but our defense is great also, easily in the same league as them at the very least. They also have a decent offense, but they are loosing A LOT when they loose Selanne (and Penner, actually). Thats like loosing Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Fortunately we only lost Bertuzzi and Calder; neither of which really gave us alot last year, and Lang, who wasn't even offered a contract to return. And to replace them we have some solid young talent thats anxious for more ice time to prove themselves, including Grigorenko, who apparently has the stuff of a potential legend.

Yes I would prefer that Scotty retires, but I'm not overly worried about him staying another year. We had the last season in a bag, we just got some bad bounces, and mark my words if we verse them again in the playoffs they won't get off so lucky.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Echolalia

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I don't remember a single spectacular save that he made. In fact, I don't even remember any times the wings even had a one on one opportunity. There were very few odd man rushes at all, and 95 times out of 100 he did in fact have 2 defensmen in front of him; usually two of the best defensmen to play the game at that.

Giguere has to be one of the most overrated goalies in the leauge.

Some of what you say is true, but don't forget that Giguere is a positional goalie. He's not supposed to make spectacular saves like you'd see Hasek make in his prime, because Giguere is always in solid positioning. Also, it's hard to go against his overtime record in the playoffs. All in all, I don't think that he's one of the top 5 goalies in the league, but I'd love to have a guy like that playing for the Wings.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Some of what you say is true, but don't forget that Giguere is a positional goalie. He's not supposed to make spectacular saves like you'd see Hasek make in his prime, because Giguere is always in solid positioning. Also, it's hard to go against his overtime record in the playoffs. All in all, I don't think that he's one of the top 5 goalies in the league, but I'd love to have a guy like that playing for the Wings.

Its easy to be a positional goalie with the defensive line up he has. Most of the shots that opponents get are from the outside and with a lot of traffic to block prime shooting angles. He didn't look so good in game 3 when his defense didn't show up.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Echolalia

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I want him to come back. I love Scottie Niedermayer , great guy and a great player. No doubt in my mind Ducks are the best team in the league with a defense like .

Niedermayer-Beachemin

Schnieder-Pronger

O'Donnell-Hnidy

Huskins-Dipenta

Just sick ...

[Opie 308]

Gotta go with the crowd on this one. Even though I hate Pronger with a passion. He's still a great defenseman. And with Niedermayer possibly returning. They have possibly the best defense in the NHL. So basically, all they have to do is get over the loss of Selanne and Penner. Bertuzzi will certainly help. And so will the other countless talented forwards they have. I hate the Ducks more than most poeple on these boards. But lets be real here. With Niedermayer returning, they would be a huge contender, and might possibly be the first team to repeat since our Red Wings. But like I said, Im keeping the hope alive that Scotty is hanging em up.

ALL they have to do is overcome the lose of Selanne and Penner, I agree that is all they have to do, but what exactly is it that they need to replace.

Lets look at something for a minute:

Selanne and Penner are going to be considered - numbers and Bertuzzi and Schneids will be +

Anaheim's gains from Bert and Schneids=

Goals

+ 13 -77 = loss of 64

Assists

+ 43 - 62 loss of 19

Points

+ 56 - 139 loss of 83

PPG

+ 2 - 34 loss of 32

PPA

+ 30 - 30 Even (thanks solely to Schneids)

GP

+ 76 - 164 Loss of 98 (both players played in all 82 and were #1 and #2 scorers goal wise)

They will have to find a way to make up 64 goals included in that are 25 ppg.

This team is not the same team without Teemu, I would venture that his return is more important than Neids.

The D was already one of the best in the league, adding just makes them that much better than the rest of the D. I have never argued that.

But their offense is severely lacking, and Bertuzzi has done nothing to show me that he will do anything besides get hurt.

I could be wrong but he has to show me something, hell Grigs could very well play more games and out score Bertuzzi, by a long shot.

The Ducks have lost two players who were out there every game, logging incredibly important minutes. Bertuzzi for Penner isn't an even swap, Penner plays the way Bert used to, not the way he does now.

In order to have the best shot at the cup they will have to have a better scorer than Andy MacDonald and his 27g and 51a for 78 points.

Back to the defense for a second:

For the sake of argument lets say at the deadline the wings trade for Adrian Aucoin, would they not then be a better team offense and defense.

The thing about that is the wings can fit that under the cap, this could actually happen. The Ducks need a forward for under 1 mil, and then they have 0 left after.

The ducks have a great Defense their offense is severely lacking!

BTW this is by far my favorite thread/discussion on here in a long, long time!!!

[Guest DetroitIan]

edit: to jump in on the defense conversation

yes the ducks' d is great and it will be even better if Niedermayer stays another year, but our defense is great also, easily in the same league as them at the very least. They also have a decent offense, but they are loosing A LOT when they loose Selanne (and Penner, actually). Thats like loosing Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Fortunately we only lost Bertuzzi and Calder; neither of which really gave us alot last year, and Lang, who wasn't even offered a contract to return. And to replace them we have some solid young talent thats anxious for more ice time to prove themselves, including Grigorenko, who apparently has the stuff of a potential legend.

Yes I would prefer that Scotty retires, but I'm not overly worried about him staying another year. We had the last season in a bag, we just got some bad bounces, and mark my words if we verse them again in the playoffs they won't get off so lucky.

I agree with some of your points. But I disagree with some also. I would say the Wings defense is definitely atleast somewhat close to the Ducks(with Niedermayer that is). But it's not quite as good. It's right up there with the best, but not as good as the Ducks would be after adding Schneider to their core, AND keeping Neidermayer. And yeah I definitely agree that the loss of Bert and Calder isnt back-breaking by any means. But to say everything is ok, because we're replacing them with young, inexperienced, unproven players, is just going too far. And I've heard good things about Grigs as well. But to say he has the stuff of a potential legend is just crazy. The kid hasnt played one NHL game yet, lets not start calling him the next Crosby or Ovechkin just yet. But yeah you're right, despite everything, the Red Wings were just 2 wins away from the Stanley Cup Finals. So everything should be just fine for us next year. But make no mistake about it, we need to either sign Markov, or we need a top 6 forward to replace what we lost. Cause If Niedermayer returns, we're defintiely gonna need it. Especially come playoff time. Where experience can count the most.

[Guest DetroitIan]

ALL they have to do is overcome the lose of Selanne and Penner, I agree that is all they have to do, but what exactly is it that they need to replace.

Lets look at something for a minute:

Selanne and Penner are going to be considered - numbers and Bertuzzi and Schneids will be +

Anaheim's gains from Bert and Schneids=

Goals

+ 13 -77 = loss of 64

Assists

+ 43 - 62 loss of 19

Points

+ 56 - 139 loss of 83

PPG

+ 2 - 34 loss of 32

PPA

+ 30 - 30 Even (thanks solely to Schneids)

GP

+ 76 - 164 Loss of 98 (both players played in all 82 and were #1 and #2 scorers goal wise)

They will have to find a way to make up 64 goals included in that are 25 ppg.

This team is not the same team without Teemu, I would venture that his return is more important than Neids.

The D was already one of the best in the league, adding just makes them that much better than the rest of the D. I have never argued that.

But their offense is severely lacking, and Bertuzzi has done nothing to show me that he will do anything besides get hurt.

I could be wrong but he has to show me something, hell Grigs could very well play more games and out score Bertuzzi, by a long shot.

The Ducks have lost two players who were out there every game, logging incredibly important minutes. Bertuzzi for Penner isn't an even swap, Penner plays the way Bert used to, not the way he does now.

In order to have the best shot at the cup they will have to have a better scorer than Andy MacDonald and his 27g and 51a for 78 points.

Back to the defense for a second:

For the sake of argument lets say at the deadline the wings trade for Adrian Aucoin, would they not then be a better team offense and defense.

The thing about that is the wings can fit that under the cap, this could actually happen. The Ducks need a forward for under 1 mil, and then they have 0 left after.

The ducks have a great Defense their offense is severely lacking!

BTW this is by far my favorite thread/discussion on here in a long, long time!!!

I totally see where you're coming from. And actually you could possibly be correct here. But usually, when a team loses a player that contributes that much to offense, the team finds a way to make up for the goals with other players. Like the Wings with Shanny. Sure, losing Shanahan and all his offensive production might have hurt us. But we had other guys step up and make up for those goals. And if there is one thing the Ducks have with their crop of forwards, it's players that know how to put the puck in the net. So yeah, their losses on offense seam huge. But they will have other guys out on the ice during those times where Selanne and Penner would have been out there. And Im sure they will get the job done. And if Scotty Niedermayer comes back, their defense will be better than it was last year. No doubt about it. So even if their offense isnt exactly what it was last season. They will have an even better defense to help that out. It just depends on what you think is more important. More forwards that score, or more great defensemen. IMO the Ducks might be even better off this season then they were last season(if Niedermayer returns that is). If Scott retired, then I would agree, that they wont be as good as they were last year. But it all rides on what Niedermayer will do.

[Packer487 3]

His contract is already set at 6.75mil for this season and next. Now he can take a salary reduction however if it real drastic I am sure the NHLPA will step in and say not so fast.

However even with him back they are less of a team than they were.

Basing off of last years stats alone they have become worse with the loss of Penner and the addition of Bert. They got a good deal older, I am not sold on Pronger being that good. He is living on his past rep, and the fact that people think he is a great hitter, he is a dirty hitter and plays with a mean streak, but I am baffled by how he ended up a norris candidate. Niedermayer I see but not pronger. IMHO!

Are players allowed to take paycuts? I'm fairly certain that contracts can't be renegotiated either up or down...

Edited August 28, 2007 by Packer487

[Opie 308]

All they have done is replaced Neidermayer with Schneids and if Neidermayer comes back they added to their D with Schneids.

They lost 2 of the top 3 forwards on their team.

If the wings lost 2 of their top 3 forwards this board would be s***ting a brick. For Example

The wings Keep Schneids add Rafalski but lose Dats and Homer in the process you are going to tell me that they are still one of the best teams in the league because the D is that good.

No way I do not believe it. Defense wins championships is an expression which I believe true but it is not Defense wins championships on it's own.

They have lost over 60 goals as a team last year they scored 258 last year.

Do not confuse this team with the Devils that won the cup, the devils had a lot of proven talent up front, they just made them play D.

This team has a lot of hopefuls on it, and has effectively done nothing to help the offense. If Neids does return he is effectively leaving them short one forward.

Perry, Getzlaf, Kunitz, and the other young guys were able to make plays because the other teams worried way more about Selanne, now it won't even take a great D pairing to shut them down.

The vaunted pp that everyone refers to will have two sets of very good to great d-men and then no one up front.

Unless you take Pronger off of the point and put him in front of the net Chara style, but then you have a guy with a less than stellar wrist shot at a forward spot and a forward at a D spot.

Either way this team is going to struggle IMO!!

Are players allowed to take paycuts? I'm fairly certain that contracts can't be renegotiated either up or down...

Yzerman did it in the past, and I know others have but not sure about it after the new CBA.

Another point, if Bert gets hurt before the all-star break or before the trade deadline even what do they do with the 1.3 million they have to spend. Who then replaces Penner and Selanne?

Edited August 28, 2007 by Opie

[Dominator2005 558]

What do you mean he has to take a pay cut? He doesnt have to do anything to return other than return, and he'll earn the 6.75M hes earning on his current contract. The Ducks have enough cap space to absorb that salary even with the signings of Bertuzzi and Schneider.

And youre right, if the Ducks keep Niedermayer, they are instantly the #1 team in the NHL once again. Niedermayer is one of the best players in the league and a top 4 of Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, and Schneider, well thats an ALL STAR game worthy defense. Nobody else comes close. I dont care if they lose Selanne or Penner, they are cup favorites once again barring serious injuries..

Dont be a homer. They could have an ECHL team up front and still be contenders.

Pronger-Niedermayer

Beauchemin-Schneider

Thats just absolutely sick. Most teams would die for ONE of those guys, let alone all FOUR of them. Giguere gets another free pass playing in front of the best defense in probably a decade and all of those 4 guys can dominate on the PP.

Their PP units are gonna make the rest of the leagues PK units feel like they are constantly 5 on 3

Agree 100%