GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 To all you anti-fighting haters on this board, don't you think it's ironic how when one fight breaks out at a Wings game, we're already wanting to give nicknames to the player involved in it? One fight. The same thing happened when Lilja finally dropped the gloves last year. Neither Drake nor Lilja pummeled their opponents, yet it got a huge response from both the fans at the game and the people on this board. I can't even imagine what will happen here when Downey is called up and he fights every other game. Drake is 39 years old, yet he did something that no one on our team was willing to do last year when guys like Perry were running our players. We beat this topic to death over the summer, but even then I was sure there were many anti-fighting hypocrites here who would be overjoyed when a fight finally broke out. That shows you how long we've lacked fighting in hockeytown, that when it finally happens, we're ready to canonize Dallas Drake of all people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) Are there really any anti-fighting people on this board? From my vantage point there's 2 groups, 1 that thinks fighting is essential to having a successful hockey team and the other that feels that hockey is not essential to having a successful hockey team, I've yet to see actually anti-fighting posts. Not to mention this thread is basically trolling, baiting people into a flame war. Tread carefully. Edited October 4, 2007 by Heaton Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 Are there really any anti-fighting people on this board? From my vantage point there's 2 groups, 1 that thinks fighting is essential to having a successful hockey team and the other that feels that hockey is not essential to having a successful hockey team, I've yet to see actually anti-fighting posts. Not to mention this thread is basically trolling, baiting people into a flame war. Tread carefully. But when you say that fighting isn't essential to success as a team, that is the same as being against it ever happening, because then you're saying there's no use for it. Personally, I think that if our players get run from behind and injured, that does affect our success as a team. Besides, I don't see how my original post was intended to start a flame war? It was just an ironic take on what we've been arguing about all summer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 But when you say that fighting isn't essential to success as a team, that is the same as being against it ever happening, because then you're saying there's no use for it. Personally, I think that if our players get run from behind and injured, that does affect our success as a team. Besides, I don't see how my original post was intended to start a flame war? It was just an ironic take on what we've been arguing about all summer. No it is not, I love a hockey fight, but I do not believe it is essential to winning, as proven by the wings last year. However if Lids wants one on the team than I say get him one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OsGOD 3 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 BREAK HIS HEAD!!! I love fights Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 I was thinking the same thing last night. Even for those who don't think the Wings need a guy who will drop the gloves, as soon as Drake sticks up for himself, everyone gets totally fired up. Wait til he sticks up for a teammate. That's been a rare occurence on the Wings lately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 Clarification of my last post I think of a fight hater as the people who say fighting has no place in hockey, as opposed to those of us who were saying Downey was not going turn this team around. I think it is funny that some people on here feel the need to label people with different opinions, like every issue is black or white, anti-fighter or pro-fighter, D-Z- Homer or D and Z on separate lines, so on and so on. Most of us weren't in support of the fighter options because this team lacks a definite scoring threat outside of D and Z so we wanted some one who could score and fight. Had a player of Shanny in his prime been available I don't think anyone would have argued that point. It is not that we don't support fighting we just felt the team needed something more than a goon who averages 20 something games a season in the 13th forward spot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 I was thinking the same thing last night. Even for those who don't think the Wings need a guy who will drop the gloves, as soon as Drake sticks up for himself, everyone gets totally fired up. Wait til he sticks up for a teammate. That's been a rare occurence on the Wings lately. The only thing I'm surprised about is that people are surprised that people get excited for fights. Just because I don't think fighting is a necessity doesn't mean I don't believe it has a place, that is has some importance and that fans love it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner 6 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 I like the fighting. It's like a sport within a sport, if ya know what I mean. I just wish the wussies would fight fair and remove their helmets too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) "However if Lids wants one on the team than I say get him one." Lids? Who cares what Lids wants? He's the captain, not the coach, not theowner and not the GM. Probert and Kocure weren't here because Yzerman wanted them here, but then gone (and back again in Kocur's case) because Yzerman changed his mind. I want a goon on this team. I want a tough guy that is willing and eager to go with anybody, but not to take stupid penalties. I think we can find him. I want him to have close to zero offensive tallent - I don't want our scorers in the box or sitting out because of a broken hand. Our tough guy should ride the pine when he's not a) threatening to crush peaople, or b) crushing people Edited October 4, 2007 by micah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwingfan19 293 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 I am very PRO fighting and when that fight broke out last night I was out of my seat waving my fist screaming " Get him Drakey get em" Hopefully with Drake, Downey and perhaps Lilja we may see some more of that this year. I would also Like to see Kopy get in some fights, he is definitely big enough. Maybe he could become a more skilled Ivannas, he could of had a fight last night with O'Donnell when he ran Prongoon, but skated away..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bringback91 2 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 I was thinking the same thing last night. Even for those who don't think the Wings need a guy who will drop the gloves, as soon as Drake sticks up for himself, everyone gets totally fired up. Wait til he sticks up for a teammate. That's been a rare occurence on the Wings lately. Maybe last year, but in the same preseason game Cleary stuck up for his teammate and dropped the gloves and Grigs stuck up for himself and dropped the gloves. I love hockey fights, think it's awesome when guys square up and drop em. I think alot of people including myself like having a guy around who WILL drop the gloves, it's just when that's all he can do that bothers me. Maybe if it were back in the day and the Wings had 3 full lines that could be any teams top 1 and we had a Grimson I'd be cool with it. But now days every roster spot is just too important. Anyway I think this team is alot tougher all around than it gets credit for and they'll stick up for each other and themselves. If you ask me Franzen is a guy who should be getting in sparing time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 But when you say that fighting isn't essential to success as a team, that is the same as being against it ever happening, because then you're saying there's no use for it. How is that true? There's such a thing as a middle ground between "essential" and "useless." It's nice to have a guy standing in front of the net blocking the view of the goalie, but does every successful team have that like we have Holmstrom? No. It's nice to have a team that can successfully win shootouts, but the Wings didn't win a single shootout last year - 0 for 8 - and nobody calls that essential despite the Wings' success last year. I don't think there's a single one of us on this board who's anti-fighting. As others have said, the difference comes between those who think the Wings must have a fighter to survive, and those who don't think it's absolutely necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 "However if Lids wants one on the team than I say get him one." Lids? Who cares what Lids wants? He's the captain, not the coach, not theowner and not the GM. Probert and Kocure weren't here because Yzerman wanted them here, but then gone (and back again in Kocur's case) because Yzerman changed his mind. I want a goon on this team. I want a tough guy that is willing and eager to go with anybody, but not to take stupid penalties. I think we can find him. I want him to have close to zero offensive tallent - I don't want our scorers in the box or sitting out because of a broken hand. Our tough guy should ride the pine when he's not a) threatening to crush peaople, or b) crushing people So the team shouldn't care what lids says, like you said he is only their captain and arguably (no doubt in my mine) the most important player in the winged wheel, but somehow your opinion is important. And I didn't say Lids was saying to the owners get one, it was a reference to a quote that the free press had on Lids reaction to the Downie hit. Anyhow the only reason I said that was because his quote in the article last week was the thing that changed my mind about giving a spot on the roster to Downey, which was discussed vehemently over the off-season on this board. Sorry for assuming that everyone had read those threads and knew what I meant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 Ugh I hope we don't have threads like this all season. Like Heaton said you're boarder line trolling. And like BRTD said there IS a middle ground between "essential" and useless". I've been against bringing in an enforcer all off season like many here. That in no way means I'm against fighting. I wish every player on the team could handle his own but it's just not practical and not at the expense of talent. Fighting is a factor just not near as big as some of you make it out to be. It's no surprise who started this thread.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kutcher 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 We should just trade someone and picks away for Chris Neil or Darcy Tucker. Both can score and fight , solve both of our problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 Interesting note: 3 of the 5 newest added fights on hockeyfights.com are Red Wings. Drake, Grigs and Cleary. wurd, esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwingfan19 293 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 We should just trade someone and picks away for Chris Neil or Darcy Tucker. Both can score and fight , solve both of our problems. Neil would be great, he could ride shotgun with Dats or Z Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omnipotent_hudler 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 But when you say that fighting isn't essential to success as a team, that is the same as being against it ever happening, because then you're saying there's no use for i hahaha no, you can't derive that meaning from that statement without further statements. Once again there's this idiotic idea that there are "anti-fighters". There's no anti-fighters. I'm anti- fighter-who-can-do-nothing-else-but-fight-and-spends-every-game-in-the-penalty-box. Big difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 Are there really any anti-fighting people on this board? From my vantage point there's 2 groups, 1 that thinks fighting is essential to having a successful hockey team and the other that feels that hockey is not essential to having a successful hockey team, I've yet to see actually anti-fighting posts. Not to mention this thread is basically trolling, baiting people into a flame war. Tread carefully. I'm not against fighting at all but I don't think it's essential to winning hockey games. If it was teams would be loading up with goons before the playoffs. And the Ducks wouldn't have sat George Parros for every single playoff game last year (and they still managed to win the Cup). I don't like the scripted fights between goons. If goons are going to go I want it to be because they're pissed or they're paying that team back for touching a superstar. I love tilts like Perry-Drake. Two guys that fight only when they're ticked off. I have to say though, I miss the days watching Probie patrolling the ice ready to kill anyone that sneezes in the same direction as Steve Yzerman. I still remember that fight where Yzerman got tangled up with Kevin Maguire. Probie was salivating trying to get at Macguire as the Sabre 'tough guy' started throwing punches at Stevie. Eventually Probie caught him with a beautiful uppercut that knocked him out cold. Awesome. Man do I miss the days when anyone that came over our blueline got a stick in the head for it. Gallant, Probie, Kocur, Snepts, Norwood. Even Dave Barr would throw 'em once in a while. That team was tough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted October 4, 2007 And the Ducks wouldn't have sat George Parros for every single playoff game last year They didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 They didn't. You're right he played a whopping 5 games before they realized he was better eating popcorn in the press box. The point is when the important games come he was a complete non-factor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 They didn't. Which important game did George Parros play in, make an impact and influenced the outcome of the game? Did Brian McGrattan play in the finals or any game prior when anything was on the line and he wasn't in by default? Guys like Parros and McGrattan have their roles, but it isn't to play in important games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 You're right he played a whopping 5 games before they realized he was better eating popcorn in the press box. The point is when the important games come he was a complete non-factor. Thank you. I mispoke when I said he played 0 games. He did play 5 games out of 21. I still stand firm that goons don't win playoff games. Sure, they'll help keep players safe during the regular season but outside of Chris Neil there aren't too many goons that can contribute in the most important games in Spring. (eg. Andrew Peters 0 games out of 16 Sabres playoff games). Joey Kocur scored the 1st goal of the Cup Finals in 1997, & took a regular shift throughout the series. At the same time, Kocur wasn't asked to be a goon for the Wings. At that stage in his career they needed a veteran presense to fill out their grind-line when injuries or changes arose. And because Kocur still had a good head for the game and decent wheels he filled in beautifully as a guy that would take a couple of shifts per period. The point is, if a goon is dressing for a playoff game it's not to fight or intimidate it'll be because they can actually contribute to the outcome of the game. For every '97 Kocur I can name a number of goons that won't suit up for a great majority of playoff games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted October 4, 2007 Joey Kocur scored the 1st goal of the Cup Finals in 1997, & took a regular shift throughout the series. One example does not prove a point. The game has evolved very much since then. Big tough slow guys have a minimal impact anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
