Grigorenko recalled from Grand Rapids

[Guest DetroitIan]

I really don't like the way Grigs went about this. I mean come on, it's only been 8 games. All he has to do is have a little patience, and he'll find is way on the team. He doesn't have to pompously demand it. I understand that he can make more money in Russia, then he can playing in the AHL. But, if he is truly passionate about winning in the most competitive league in the world, he should give it just a little more time before he presents an ulitmatum like that. So all I can say is, he better damn well prove that he should be in the NHL. Otherwise, go back to Russia. We can't compromise the success of our team, because some player thinks he deserves something. I love the kid, but this disappoints me. But hell, if he plays good, then there will be no problems.

Edited October 22, 2007 by DetroitIan

[SweWings 45]

No, you know what is quite ignorant? That a player who has been playing at an ECHL level thinks because he has an out-clause in his contract, he can wiggle his way to the big club for a pay day. That my friend is ignorant.

To be fair, if you had that written this first you wouldn't be getting all these comments.

[StormJH1 231]

After sticking with Grigorenko for THIS long, you'd have to be nuts not to want to at least take a look at him. If you do that, and he bombs, so what, let him go back to Russia.

But the way people talk about Russian kids that they don't know anything about personally makes me think that there's more involved than your analysis of his hockey abilities. It's an easy call for guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg who were both healthy and practically cant-miss NHL prospects. Grigorenko is recovering from serious injuries and needs to make a living here or in Russia. If he's going to risk leaving his home country and pissing off the Russian hockey officials he'll depend on for a paycheck if it DOESN'T work out here, then I think it's understandable that he's taking that risk for something more than an AHL roster spot, a league full of college washouts and aging NHL has-beens.

Ignorant fans took the same hardline with Fedorov, who was an integral piece of 3 Cup teams, but since he demanded market value in his 97/98 holdout and EVENTUALLY signed somewhere else, some fans want to pretend like he never wore a Wings jersey. Jesus, Dany Heatley killed a teammate in his car b/c he was driving like a jackass, and nobody cares because he scores goals now...Grigorenko survives a car accident, and shows up to one camp out of shape, and people are ready to send him to a Siberian labor camp for life...what's going on here!?!

[lfd250 1]

I love it! There is so much passion for our wings that you all are fighting over a spoiled brat. (Throwing hat into fight) "If you don't play me, I'm going home." come on! We are having enough time finding the right combos with the guys we have. Let him go. They younger guys we have now are working hard for their spot.

[drwscc 212]

Wait. Did or did not everyone bag on Keith Tkachuk for showing up to training camp like 30 lbs overweight?

It has nothing to do with him being Russian, and everything to do with him acting like a spoiled baby, and being about to blow his one chance.

I don't think anyone thinks that right now, this minute, he can come onto the Wings roster, and earn a spot. Is he capable? Maybe. Based on what he's done so far, will he? Not a chance. It would take a miracle for him to make the squad once everyone is healthy.

The fact that he's trying to demand that he be promoted before showing even a glimmer of wanting to be on the team is what is angering most people.

[SweWings 45]

After sticking with Grigorenko for THIS long, you'd have to be nuts not to want to at least take a look at him. If you do that, and he bombs, so what, let him go back to Russia.

But the way people talk about Russian kids that they don't know anything about personally makes me think that there's more involved than your analysis of his hockey abilities. It's an easy call for guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg who were both healthy and practically cant-miss NHL prospects. Grigorenko is recovering from serious injuries and needs to make a living here or in Russia. If he's going to risk leaving his home country and pissing off the Russian hockey officials he'll depend on for a paycheck if it DOESN'T work out here, then I think it's understandable that he's taking that risk for something more than an AHL roster spot, a league full of college washouts and aging NHL has-beens.

Ignorant fans took the same hardline with Fedorov, who was an integral piece of 3 Cup teams, but since he demanded market value in his 97/98 holdout and EVENTUALLY signed somewhere else, some fans want to pretend like he never wore a Wings jersey. Jesus, Dany Heatley killed a teammate in his car b/c he was driving like a jackass, and nobody cares because he scores goals now...Grigorenko survives a car accident, and shows up to one camp out of shape, and people are ready to send him to a Siberian labor camp for life...what's going on here!?!

I think the main reason I feel sort of iffy about Grigs right now is his attitude and the way he seems to think that he's an obvious 1st line nhler. But I can accept the attitude thing as long as he realizes what is required of him and adapts to it. Otherwise it won't matter because he won't be fit to play at the NHL level anyway. Both in terms of physical conditioning but more importantly in terms of attitude.

[Chase 0]

Send him packing, whatever. Last thing we need is a player with an ego problem on the team.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I think that Fedorov has a lot to do with this whole situtation. As unfair as it is, Fedorov was the FIRST Russian to act like this (holding out in the 98 season) and all Wings fans have been burned by it. Hell, some even have the moronic tought of comparing Datsyuk to Fedorov simply because he is 1. Russian and 2. Paid well.

The Wings management must have some of the same feelings. But, at the same time, it is partly Russia's fault for having a very agressive stance with the NHL on player's rights. So, blame him if you want, but it's not ALL his fault.

[vangvace 12]

People around here have been so jaded by 'greedy Russians' that the fact that he has a clause in his contract about returning to play in Russia if he's not in the NHL means he wants to leave.

Here's some info for everybody:

Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg both had clauses in their rookie deals that said they either made the team RIGHT AWAY, or they could play in their homeland. Grigorenko is in the AHL right now...if he had the same sort of clause as Dats or Z, HE'D BE IN RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. Does that mean Dats and Z were all about the benjamins? No, it means they didn't want to come over to be minor leaguers. Same can be said for Grigs. And guess what? All this venom being spewed at Grigs about his contract clause? Try aiming it at Dats and Z, and see if you feel the same way. I think people are more pissed off that Grigs isn't an instant star than they are about the chance he could go back to Russia.

ummm... huh?

All the "venom" being spewed because a player that has so far shown to have the ability to play at either Port Huron or Frasier is getting called up to Detroit because of his contract. He came over ill-prepared after 6 years. Well lets say 3 since that is how long his return to the RSL has been. Dats and Z came prepared to play. Grigorenko... not so much.

Wow, so we have proven once again that Russians are lazy and greedy! That is unless you are Larinov who is neither or Federov and Datsyukl who are either neither or only one.

Maybe some of these "All Russians are..." guys should join up with the 911 Truthers and get yourself on Bill Maher.

ill-prepared not lazy. I've only seen 1 or 2 "All russians are..." and dozens rising up to defend the precieved slight because of piss-poor preparation.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007/10/gr...quarter_fr.html

Grigorenko's future lies in his hands.

Nice find. Doesn't sound very promising though.

Edited October 22, 2007 by vangvace

[Zymz 0]

Lets keep thigns in perspective here. In Grigorenko, we have a player who was probably coddled a bit on his Russian teams. He could get by over there on talent alone, and never really learned the value of working hard and earning a spot. Now, he's here in the US - no friends, very little ability to communicate, and he's not really ready. What he needs is a mentor, not an executioner. Someone who can help him adjust to NHL hockey (heck, even AHL hockey is a level higher than REL.) The only guy in the Wings' system that fits the bill is Datsyuk, who's been right where Grigorenko is now. Keep this in mind: Datsyuk was in a similar position when he came over, and had guys like Larionov and Fedorov to help him learn the ropes. If not for the veteran Russians on the team in Datsyuk's early days, he'd likely be back in Russia now. I think some prolonged exposure working with the veteran Europeans on the big club will have a huge impact on Grigorenko, and perhaps when he's more comfortable later this season, he'll be willing to return to the Griffins to get ready for next season. Yes, it sucks that he's taking away roster spots from hard-working, hard-nosed energy guys like Ellis, Downey and Kopecky, but face it, who's the bigger payoff? Players like those three are a dime a dozen, guys with top-notch hands and a penchant for scoring aren't...

[kylee 727]

Send him packing, whatever. Last thing we need is a player with an ego problem on the team.

tell me about it.

he plays a handful of games in a league that is one step down from the NHL and now its take it or leave it?

please.

his whole persona that ive read about is enough to make me sick and enough of an offense to players like dan cleary who work hard to get where they are. not by setting some type of ultimatum.

im already sick of this guy.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

I can't stand people who talk about "dem greedy Euro's/Russians/Comminusts/non North Americans!". That being said, I have lost a lot of respect for Grigorenko. He had every chance to prove himself and has yet to show anything beyond having some skill handling the puck. Yet he seems to think that he deserves an NHL spot now. Send him back to Russia.

And the next time one of our top prospects gets into a car crash my brain is going to explode...

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

tell me about it.

he plays a handful of games in a league that is one step down from the NHL and now its take it or leave it?

please.

his whole persona that ive read about is enough to make me sick and enough of an offense to players like dan cleary who work hard to get where they are. not by setting some type of ultimatum.

im already sick of this guy.

Actually Cleary had the same kind of attitude early in his career. There were pretty big expectations of his offensive potential, but he never quite lived up to it and had a questionable work ethic.

It's only been recently that he's turned things around.

An appropriate quote about Cleary early in his career. Someone should've translated it and sent it to Grigs.

"He was living on his skill," Holland said of Cleary's first NHL years. He didn't understand, as is the case with many youngsters who come to the league with a spiffy junior resume and a boatload of expectations, that there's more to the equation than having good moves. "Dan found out just in time," Holland said. "His commitment to conditioning and his defense have allowed him to have offense."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=2730635

[Hocketownwest 11]

I saw him play Saturday night and he's not worth all the hoopla, he was barely noticable on the ice. Keep him in the AHL until he can prove himself or send him him packing. Its not like we really need anymore small players.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Not in the least bit does he deserve to be on this team.

He's such a piece of s***. Seriously. There are guys who spend years in the AHL refining their game before they even play an NHL game (Ellis for example), and they go through with it. Yet, Grigorenko can't find it upon himself to lower his massive ego and play anything more then 5 productionless games in the AHL. It's bulls***.

In any circumstance, guys like Downey or Ellis better not be bumped aside for a lazy slug like Grigorenko. We need the working-class mentality on this team that guys like Downey and Ellis bring, not a lazy Yashin-esque personality that doesn't want to work at all.

Ugh. I am utterly disappointed with this news. Grigorenko is getting a spot by default, which is f***ing ridiculous in my opinion, considering how hard some guys work to make it.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Guest jaytan]

Damn right. I just get sicker of this kid every time I read about him. Send him back home!

[norrisnick 1]

Not in the least bit does he deserve to be on this team.

He's such a piece of s***. Seriously. There are guys who spend years in the AHL refining their game before they even play an NHL game (Ellis for example), and they go through with it. Yet, Grigorenko can't find it upon himself to lower his massive ego and play anything more then 5 productionless games in the AHL. It's bulls***.

In any circumstance, guys like Downey or Ellis better not be bumped aside for a lazy slug like Grigorenko. We need the working-class mentality on this team that guys like Downey and Ellis bring, not a lazy Yashin-esque personality that doesn't want to work at all.

Ugh. I am utterly disappointed with this news. Grigorenko is getting a spot by default, which is f***ing ridiculous in my opinion, considering how hard some guys work to make it.

Would you be willing to take a 90% pay cut for a year on the hopes that you might get back to square one in a year or two?

[ben_usmc 253]

man their is a lot of assumptions running around on this board, both for and against the guy. How about we wait and see what he can do with an NHL line up before we totally write the guy off. 1. we don't know what went on in Russia for why he is out of shape? strike one because we only see it for what it is, 2. hasn't done s*** in AHL, well a lot of players that have, haven't done s*** in the NHL and some who haven't done s*** in the AHL have been good in the NHL, 3. Linemates, regardless the 3rd line in the NHL is probably better then any line the Griffs have, so he will have improved teamates.4. we've only heard Hollands side of the arguement and its a safe (assumption) that he may be saying all this because just in case we do dump this prospect everyone has been wanting to see for years, he can make it out to be Grigs fault. 5. Lastly, I don't like that he wants to come up right away, but I don't blame him either. I would call about 90% of you liars out there that would say he would rather start from the bottom of a company and work his way up with paychecks of $10 -15 as oppossed to starting at management making $50 an hour instead, work smarter not harder- is it the right work ethic:no, but is it everyones reality: yes. I only hope one of 2 things happen though, he either shows everyone why he is so desired and does good (only goodnot great because Pavel wasn't anything special his first season here on a 3rd line with a lot better teamates the Grigs will have), or he realizes that he isn't ready yet for the NHL but knows he eventually will be on the big club and goes back to Griffs for some extra training.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Would you be willing to take a 90% pay cut for a year on the hopes that you might get back to square one in a year or two?

If he's honestly that committed, then why is he not showing it in his play?

I'm not asking him to be Sergei Fedorov part two. But, being in shape, a little effort, and some half-way decent play would be nice.

He's not getting called up because he's played good. Heck, Ken Holland basically said he's not at all impressed with Grigorenko so far. The only reason he's getting called up is because he's throwing a little fit about playing in the AHL, which to me is stupid, considering that the average NHL player spends at least 2-3 full seasons in the AHL before they become a regular in the NHL. Grigorenko can't even find it upon himself to play more the 5 games.

If he helps our 2nd line problems, then fine, keep him up here. But right now he's not proving that he deserves to be on this team at all.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[ben_usmc 253]

Not in the least bit does he deserve to be on this team.

He's such a piece of s***. Seriously. There are guys who spend years in the AHL refining their game before they even play an NHL game (Ellis for example), and they go through with it. Yet, Grigorenko can't find it upon himself to lower his massive ego and play anything more then 5 productionless games in the AHL. It's bulls***.

In any circumstance, guys like Downey or Ellis better not be bumped aside for a lazy slug like Grigorenko. We need the working-class mentality on this team that guys like Downey and Ellis bring, not a lazy Yashin-esque personality that doesn't want to work at all.

Ugh. I am utterly disappointed with this news. Grigorenko is getting a spot by default, which is f***ing ridiculous in my opinion, considering how hard some guys work to make it.

yeah and f*** Crosby/ Zetta/ Dats/ Ove who the f*** do they think they are not spending time down in the AHL while the greatness of Ellis/ Bootland/Kopecky all have to take the tough road. f*** talent and the wings desire to win

[Kp-Wings 3]

yeah and f*** Crosby/ Zetta/ Dats/ Ove who the f*** do they think they are not spending time down in the AHL while the greatness of Ellis/ Bootland/Kopecky all have to take the tough road. f*** talent and the wings desire to win

Wow. Are you seriously comparing Grigorenko to Crosby and Zetterberg?

The Wings don't even want Grigorenko up right now, by all their public indications. The only reason they did call him up is because he says he hates the AHL and will go back to Russia for good if he isn't called up. He hasn't proven any of his talent at this point.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Would you be willing to take a 90% pay cut for a year on the hopes that you might get back to square one in a year or two?

Is square one playing in the NHL??

[ben_usmc 253]

no but if he is going to be what is supposed to be why should he be in the AHL, maybe it is all in his head but to say that just because somebody has been in the AHL doesn't mean they deserve a spot more then somebody who wasn't. Personally I don't care what the wings do with him as long as we win. How exactly is he lazy, also? Because he came in out of shape doesn't make him lazy. Just means he can't at the moment keep up with the speed not that he doesnt want to. Until I see him taking shifts off on a consistant basis like Lang I'm not going to just say he sucks. At least wait and see before you totally right the guy off

[norrisnick 1]

Is square one playing in the NHL??

Square one would be getting back to his original income level for his family. Wanting to play in the NHL is nice and all, but looking after his young daughter is priority #1 I'm guessing.

If he's honestly that committed, then why is he not showing it in his play?

I'm not asking him to be Sergei Fedorov part two. But, being in shape, a little effort, and some half-way decent play would be nice.

He's not getting called up because he's played good. Heck, Ken Holland basically said he's not at all impressed with Grigorenko so far. The only reason he's getting called up is because he's throwing a little fit about playing in the AHL, which to me is stupid, considering that the average NHL player spends at least 2-3 full seasons in the AHL before they become a regular in the NHL. Grigorenko can't even find it upon himself to play more the 5 games.

If he helps our 2nd line problems, then fine, keep him up here. But right now he's not proving that he deserves to be on this team at all.

According to at least one Griffins' fan at RWC he's too good for his teammates and the things he's trying to do they can't. Contrary to many of the flashier guys that come over from Russia a lot of what goes over there actually includes linemates. Maybe he should have tried simplifying his game, but that likely won't get him anywhere any quicker.

And I'm not sure why you're bringing up the average NHL's stay in the AHL considering the average NHL doesn't have a million dollar contract waiting for him in a different league. You can't compare Grigorenko to Ellis. It's just stupid to do so. Ellis knows he's not good enough to crack the NHL on anything but pure effort alone. Grigorenko believes he's talented enough, but now knows he needs to work a bit harder (had the Wings had his visa in order he'd have known in the middle of the summer and we likely wouldn't be having this debate now).

Deserving is an odd sort of principle in the world of pro sports. It rarely applies.

[Flip-check 6]

Has anybody posted a link that quotes his agent on this "turnaround"?

He said a week or two ago that he was fine with staying in the AHL, last I checked. I don't have the time to read through all the pages here but that first article didn't contain anything direct.

It'd also be very strange for him to contradict himself within so short a span.