Grigorenko recalled from Grand Rapids

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Don't really know if I care about this or not. He's going to have to earn a spot first, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

He wont play, like Heaton said, he's only up because of Franzen going on the IR. He'll have a better seat to watch the games in from the press box.

According to at least one Griffins' fan at RWC he's too good for his teammates and the things he's trying to do they can't. Contrary to many of the flashier guys that come over from Russia a lot of what goes over there actually includes linemates. Maybe he should have tried simplifying his game, but that likely won't get him anywhere any quicker.

I think your just saying what you read, but whoever said that is ridiculous. This is not his linemates fault, he was playing on the top lines and couldnt generate ANYTHING. I dont know why, from what I was told about the kid was he had lots of talent and played with an edge, even after the accident. Havent seen it, and dont expect too.

[spydrwebb 0]

i wrote more about Grigs in a previous thread called "grigorenko" but for this i simply say...

he has two weeks to perform a miracle... i'll give him that much time and not a day longer.

don't cut it, go home... no time for sore losers, period.

in no way based on where he stands tonight does he earn a spot over ellis, downey, or even kopecky.

time will tell whether any naysayers will need to admit their rush to judgment.

[Flip-check 6]

I'll wait to see. At this point it's all rumor and could be bogus or tainted information.

I know, I'm surprised no one other than you has questioned it. I've seen a comment or two reacting strongly to the supposed "ego problem" - and thus buying the sourceless statement - but no one that found the "news" surprising. Someone even changed the subtitle of this thread in response to it.

And here we go. Bruce MacLeod on his Red Wings Corner blog made the post, but I see nothing to indicate that he's not simply running on old info.

Is this actually a new verified statement from Grigs or what? Any of you guys know?

[Grittzkey 1]

If he goes back to russia this year..

is he still ours? or is he a fa?

[russianswede919293 95]

Earlier in the thread I made the all about the Benjamin's remark and I still believe that his only reason to go back to Russia is the money. The guy claims that he dreams of playing in the NHL but isn't willing to make the sacrifice to do it. One year at 70,000 is NOT the end of the world. $70,000 is more than most people in this country make in 2 years. So getting that amount of money for one season while trying to make the NHL "his dream" wouldn't kill him. Its not like he wouldn't be able to support his family for one year at $70,000. If he didn't make it to the NHL by next year after giving it one good true effort, by all means take the money at home and go back at least you gave it your all. But I don't feel that he has given this his best effort and that he feels like this shot is owed to him and he doesn't need to earn it because he was a star in his old league. This has nothing to do with him being Russian, as some people will claim. I fully support many Russian players, such as Datsyuk and Fedorov, but Grigorenko has NOT given this his best efforts, as shown by the fact that he showed up to camp out of shape and overweight. A player that wants to make the team badly will show up to training camp ready to play and in game shape because they know every second counts.

In an ideal world Grigorenko would play in the AHL and work his way up becoming the star I do think he can potentialy become, but as is if he doesn't show any drive for this spot now that he is up in Detroit, I say f*** him (pardon the language). If he puts the work in I would be happy to see him as a Wing, but I don't think he has given his best efforts.

[Jwo 7]

Hope he decides to not opt out of his contract to play in Russia.

Edited October 23, 2007 by Jwo

[Guest RedWingsFever]

I really don't like the way Grigs went about this. I mean come on, it's only been 8 games. All he has to do is have a little patience, and he'll find is way on the team. He doesn't have to pompously demand it. I understand that he can make more money in Russia, then he can playing in the AHL. But, if he is truly passionate about winning in the most competitive league in the world, he should give it just a little more time before he presents an ulitmatum like that. So all I can say is, he better damn well prove that he should be in the NHL. Otherwise, go back to Russia. We can't compromise the success of our team, because some player thinks he deserves something. I love the kid, but this disappoints me. But hell, if he plays good, then there will be no problems.

[sibiriak 84]

Earlier in the thread I made the all about the Benjamin's remark and I still believe that his only reason to go back to Russia is the money. The guy claims that he dreams of playing in the NHL but isn't willing to make the sacrifice to do it. One year at 70,000 is NOT the end of the world. $70,000 is more than most people in this country make in 2 years. So getting that amount of money for one season while trying to make the NHL "his dream" wouldn't kill him. Its not like he wouldn't be able to support his family for one year at $70,000. If he didn't make it to the NHL by next year after giving it one good true effort, by all means take the money at home and go back at least you gave it your all. But I don't feel that he has given this his best effort and that he feels like this shot is owed to him and he doesn't need to earn it because he was a star in his old league. This has nothing to do with him being Russian, as some people will claim. I fully support many Russian players, such as Datsyuk and Fedorov, but Grigorenko has NOT given this his best efforts, as shown by the fact that he showed up to camp out of shape and overweight. A player that wants to make the team badly will show up to training camp ready to play and in game shape because they know every second counts.

In an ideal world Grigorenko would play in the AHL and work his way up becoming the star I do think he can potentialy become, but as is if he doesn't show any drive for this spot now that he is up in Detroit, I say f*** him (pardon the language). If he puts the work in I would be happy to see him as a Wing, but I don't think he has given his best efforts.

Right. A player who already has a $900,000 after-tax offer from "Severstal" chooses instead to move his whole family to a foreign country for an uncertain shot to try to make the NHL. Where his first 3 years salary is capped at $870,000 max before 30+% taxes. He must be all about the money and doesn't paln to stay long.

The same player has come back from a terrible injury. He never hit the same numbers in Russia as before the injury. He is now more of a set-up player, who needs others to be effective. He is not familiar with the NHL methods of training, expectations, and timetables. He has to miss the Detroit's conditioning camp because of the visa problems. That didn't help his preparations any. That must mean that he is lazy.

He is not used to the pace and style of the NA game, and he doesn't speak English. In that he is unique, because every other foreigner to ever come over here is fluent in English and can fit right in the NHL style right off the boat. Mario Lemieux for instance was a complete orator when he came to Pittsburgh.

And so he deserves a hearty FU from some know-it-all who never had to play for the stakes this high.

Right.

/sarcasm off/

[russianswede919293 95]

Right. A player who already has a $900,000 after-tax offer from "Severstal" chooses instead to move his whole family to a foreign country for an uncertain shot to try to make the NHL. Where his first 3 years salary is capped at $870,000 max before 30+% taxes. He must be all about the money and doesn't paln to stay long.

The same player has come back from a terrible injury. He never hit the same numbers in Russia as before the injury. He is now more of a set-up player, who needs others to be effective. He is not familiar with the NHL methods of training, expectations, and timetables. He has to miss the Detroit's conditioning camp because of the visa problems. That didn't help his preparations any. That must mean that he is lazy.

He is not used to the pace and style of the NA game, and he doesn't speak English. In that he is unique, because every other foreigner to ever come over here is fluent in English and can fit right in the NHL style right off the boat. Mario Lemieux for instance was a complete orator when he came to Pittsburgh.

And so he deserves a hearty FU from some know-it-all who never had to play for the stakes this high.

Right.

/sarcasm off/

So showing up out of shape, overweight, and half-assing it in the preseason is acceptable in Russia....damn they have a fine deal over there!

I understand that he is getting less in the NHL than he would in Russia, but to earn less in the AHL for 1 season in order to learn the North American game, since as you put it he is"not used to the pace of the north american game" which is something you do in the AHL not in the NHL, at least not on a winning team. Maybe you can adjust and learn the pace on a team like the Blue Jackets, but not on a team that is a winner year in and year out like Detroit, you do it in the AHL for them. And if he isn't willing to put the time in for that in Grand Rapids than I don't think he really wants it.

Edit for clarity

Edited October 23, 2007 by russianswede919293

[DSM 114]

This is a tough one. I've been watching his progress since his accident, and I was extremely excited to know that he had signed and was coming over. I expected great things. However, when he missed the prospect camp, I had a hunch that it wasn't going to be all that great, and unfortunately my hunch was correct. He was out of shape at camp, and was for the most part BRUTAL in the exhibition games. He now has refused to play in the AHL, and my new hunch is that in 2 weeks he'll be playing for Salavat.

Lets look at the variable's here.

- He didn't bother to learn even the most basic of English, making him hard to train, coach, etc..

- Skipped the prospect tourney.

- Came to camp out of shape.

- Was outplayed in camp by Ellis, Downey, Ryno, Ritola, Mursak, and others, yet still had ground above them

- Played some decent minutes in GR and registered no points

- Is now back with the Wings, after Ellis has played phenominally, and Downey has also played over expectation.

- He can return to Russia and make $1 mil.

Now, how about you put yourself in his shoes?

You can either: A. Play hockey somewhere where you can't even speak with people, on different ice, where the game is played differently.

or

B. Go back to where people speak your language, and play the game that you know and have established yourself to for the past few years FOR A %$%#$TON MORE TAXFREE DOLLARS..

Which would you choose.?

[Grittzkey 1]

If he goes back to russia this year..

is he still ours? or is he a fa?

[ben_usmc 253]

i wrote more about Grigs in a previous thread called "grigorenko" but for this i simply say...

he has two weeks to perform a miracle... i'll give him that much time and not a day longer.

don't cut it, go home... no time for sore losers, period.

in no way based on where he stands tonight does he earn a spot over ellis, downey, or even kopecky.

time will tell whether any naysayers will need to admit their rush to judgment.

I'm sure he'll keep that in mind. I was indifferent to the guy but now I hope he lights the NHL for or against us just so all of you assumining people would just be humbled. You all act as if you have been put in the situation and have taken the harder road. I know very few people in the world that would take the hard way as oppossed to the easy money. Unless he's scoring like Zetta he is useless. I mean come on you guys act as if we have such a s***ty team, I think management knows what they are doing. Its just annoying to see how bad you people flame some of these guys Kopecky/Sammy. I'm not a big fan of either but everyone here has a hard on for Flip who i like also but seem to forget he has brought s*** to the table yet either, as a matter of fact I believe he is the antiscorer. Give people a chance its still early.

[DSM 114]

Remember after the lockout when Tkachuk came to camp out of shape?

Thats right, he got suspended by the team, he didn't get a whole bunch of opportunities like Grigs has.

[russianswede919293 95]

On a side note I don't want people to get the wrong impression. I hope that he can become a great hockey player. I want him to be a Wing and I want him to reach his potential, and I like him as a hockey player.

I am just not impressed with his work ethic or how he handled the situation that he is in this year. He should have come to camp in shape ready to play and he didn't and that is why I am giving him a hard time. Because I do NOT feel he has earned this promotion, and I feel that to be the player we all want him to be he needs to suck up his pride and play in the AHL until he is in the right shape to compete at an NHL level.

[ben_usmc 253]

i wrote more about Grigs in a previous thread called "grigorenko" but for this i simply say...

he has two weeks to perform a miracle... i'll give him that much time and not a day longer.

don't cut it, go home... no time for sore losers, period.

in no way based on where he stands tonight does he earn a spot over ellis, downey, or even kopecky.

time will tell whether any naysayers will need to admit their rush to judgment.

I'm sure he'll keep that in mind. I was indifferent to the guy but now I hope he lights the NHL for or against us just so all of you assumining people would just be humbled. You all act as if you have been put in the situation and have taken the harder road. I know very few people in the world that would take the hard way as oppossed to the easy money. Unless he's scoring like Zetta he is useless. I mean come on you guys act as if we have such a s***ty team, I think management knows what they are doing. Its just annoying to see how bad you people flame some of these guys Kopecky/Sammy. I'm not a big fan of either but everyone here has a hard on for Flip who i like also but seem to forget he has brought s*** to the table yet either, as a matter of fact I believe he is the antiscorer. Give people a chance its still early.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Remember after the lockout when Tkachuk came to camp out of shape?

Thats right, he got suspended by the team, he didn't get a whole bunch of opportunities like Grigs has.

Slight difference between Tkachuk and Grigorenko...

[sibiriak 84]

So showing up out of shape, overweight, and half-assing it in the preseason is acceptable in Russia....damn they have a fine deal over there!

I understand that he is getting less in the NHL than he would in Russia, but to try to earn less in the AHL for 1 season in order to as you put it he is"not used to the pace of the north american game" so he would have to learn it and adjust to it, and you do that in the AHL not in the NHL, at least not on a winning team. Maybe you can adjust and learn the pace on a team like the Blue Jackets, but not on a team that is a winner year in and year out like Detroit, you do it in the AHL for them. And if he isn't willing to put the time in for that in Grand Rapids than I don't think he really wants it.

1. The degree of his "being out of shape" is unclear. It could be that he is just this slow. Compared to his 19 year old speed that is. He used to weigh 210 when he was a rising star pre-injury. He is much less than that now. What IS his ideal weight? If you don't know, then you don't know if he is overweight either.

2. As has been mentioned already, a lot of Europeans (I'd bet about half) went staright to the NHL without playing in the minors. So one can adjust to the NA game when in the NHL. In fact, last years' IIHF study showed that the chances of a Euro prospect to be successful in the NHL were less for those who went to play in the NA juniors/minors instead of staying in Europe until they were more mature.

3. For a man with a young family, giving up close to a million dollars for $50,000 after tax is not a thing easily done. What if he gets hurt and can't play anymore? Are you going to provide for his daughter then? If not, you don't deserve the right to curse at him in the language you've used.

4. I resent your generalization about Russia. Even if Grigorenko were a indeed lazy unmotivated greedy whiner, still that reflects on Grigorenko only, not all Russians.

5. Fer Chrissakes, let the guy play a few NHL games first, before loading up on tar and feathers. If he sucks, Detroit won't keep him in the line-up. And if he goes back to Russia then, the only person to have lost anything will be Igor Grigorenko. I don't understand the motivation for your vitriol towards him.

[ben_usmc 253]

as it has been said so many times before, I'm glad these people aren't GM's

[eva unit zero 271]

Remember after the lockout when Tkachuk came to camp out of shape?

Thats right, he got suspended by the team, he didn't get a whole bunch of opportunities like Grigs has.

The difference being Tkachuk was the team's star power forward, while Grigs is a prospect. Grigorenko also passed his physical, while Tkachuk failed his.

[Guest Canadian Wings]

It seems like there has been conflicting reports...

There are conflicting reports as to whether Detroit Red Wings prospect Igor Grigorenko demanded to return from his three-week stint with the Grand Rapids Griffins, but MLive.com's own Ansar Khan says that's not the case. That being said, agent Mark Lapush talked about his client's future on Monday:

October 22, RedWingsCorner: "If Detroit has patience and Igor has patience, I think he can be a star here," said Grigorenko's agent, Mark Lapush. "If he wasn't a good player, they wouldn't call him up after three weeks. They'd say 'Go home to Russia.'"

Grigorenko was taking English language classes in Grand Rapids. He also made contact with a Pennsylvania-based skating instructor who works with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin and intends to work with him in the offseason.

"He was in Grand Rapids for conditioning," said Lapush. "Even Scotty Bowman said 'This guy's hands and head are NHL.' Igor was disappointed that he didn't get more ice time (in Grand Rapids). He's very hungry, but he wasn't too effective in Grand Rapids. I told him that he was there for five games. If he was playing there the whole season, he would have gotten more ice time."

...

"I told Igor, 'When you go to Detroit, no one's going to give you 20 minutes (of ice time),'" said Lapush. "'But whatever time they give you, play 1,000 percent.' He knows he can play there. He played seven exhibition games. He knows he can play at this level."

The last paragraph in particular is good news, very good news...but the media's certainly not impressed:

October 22, Detroit News: No points in 5 games with the Griffins. That certainly doesn't bode well for his future here, I would think. It doesn't sound as if he'll have a lot of time/chances to wow the coaching staff in Detroit. And they haven't been wowed by him to this point. Mr. Grigorenko may be starring in the Russian Elite League here soon.

Stranger things have happened. Don't write him off until he's on a Lufthansa flight to Moscow...

Edited October 23, 2007 by Canadian Wings

[spydrwebb 0]

I'm sure he'll keep that in mind. I was indifferent to the guy but now I hope he lights the NHL for or against us just so all of you assumining people would just be humbled. You all act as if you have been put in the situation and have taken the harder road. I know very few people in the world that would take the hard way as oppossed to the easy money. Unless he's scoring like Zetta he is useless. I mean come on you guys act as if we have such a s***ty team, I think management knows what they are doing. Its just annoying to see how bad you people flame some of these guys Kopecky/Sammy. I'm not a big fan of either but everyone here has a hard on for Flip who i like also but seem to forget he has brought s*** to the table yet either, as a matter of fact I believe he is the antiscorer. Give people a chance its still early.

he'll have two weeks... i'd say that's chance enough.

it's up to him to perform and i'm willing to see what he's truly made of.

fail the test, you're demoted... it's rather simple actually.

and this talk about not being able to raise his family on 50k post tax dollars, give it a rest.

an american family can be raised on 1/3 of that if they know where their priorities are.

most of us here receive considerably less money or have done just fine with the

provision we've been entrusted with, it just takes a little discipline... nothing more.

[russianswede919293 95]

1. The degree of his "being out of shape" is unclear. It could be that he is just this slow. Compared to his 19 year old speed that is. He used to weigh 210 when he was a rising star pre-injury. He is much less than that now. What IS his ideal weight? If you don't know, then you don't know if he is overweight either.

2. As has been mentioned already, a lot of Europeans (I'd bet about half) went staright to the NHL without playing in the minors. So one can adjust to the NA game when in the NHL. In fact, last years' IIHF study showed that the chances of a Euro prospect to be successful in the NHL were less for those who went to play in the NA juniors/minors instead of staying in Europe until they were more mature.

3. For a man with a young family, giving up close to a million dollars for $50,000 after tax is not a thing easily done. What if he gets hurt and can't play anymore? Are you going to provide for his daughter then? If not, you don't deserve the right to curse at him in the language you've used.

4. I resent your generalization about Russia. Even if Grigorenko were a indeed lazy unmotivated greedy whiner, still that reflects on Grigorenko only, not all Russians.

5. Fer Chrissakes, let the guy play a few NHL games first, before loading up on tar and feathers. If he sucks, Detroit won't keep him in the line-up. And if he goes back to Russia then, the only person to have lost anything will be Igor Grigorenko. I don't understand the motivation for your vitriol towards him.

To fist point, I am not generalizing him being out of shape its been reported ever since he came over.

To point three, nobody can tell me that $70,000 before taxes "isn't enough money to support a family" it is about what an average american family pulls in in 2 years, and to the language issue it was meant more casually then I believe you took it and I apologize it if offended you (that is not sarcasm either I am sincerely sorry if the language offended you). To point 4 I wasn't generalizing Russians my response about russia was a sarcastic response to your original sarcastic response. I do not feel all russians are lazy, I think that there are plenty of superstar russians, Alex OVechkin and Datsyuk being two of them.to point 5 I'm upset about it because his undeserving call-up could cost the wings ellis or downey to waivers, and I feel they deserve to be in Detroit more because they have worked much harder for it.

Again as a side note I do want to say I do not dislike Grigorenko and want him to become a star player for the Wings. The main reason for my posts here is that I feel he is getting a call-up that he does NOT deserve because he said he wouldn't play for Grand Rapids anymore. I just think that some more time in Grand Rapids is better for him than practicing with Detroit, and that he is using his contract to get up to the NHL earlier than he deserves, which is selfish To be honest I think that guys like Ryno, OUlahen, and McGrath have outplayed him in the AHL, and would be more deserving of a call up than Grigorenko. It is frustration for the situation bringing this out, not a dislike for Grigorenko.

[Guest lnvincible]

Dat's was the same way when he first played with the wings. You cant expect him to come out and score 10 goals in 7 games. Lets get serious , players get good over time. Give him some time to adjust. He has been through alot , and when i mean alot i mean alot . Sure he has no goals or points but maybe its because hes not comfortable in GR's. Fact of the matter is gime him some time to adjust and to get his game back on.

[bringback91 2]

Some people are just amazing to me. Your ready to base a guy's entire future with the Wings over a blog or two and some hearsey from someone who went to one Grifs game. Glad your not on a jury against me, you'd have your minds made up after the opening statements. Well I've seen it posted a couple times in here but apperantly some either didn't see it or decided it wasn't negitive enough, lets address some of the complaints, this is a what have you done for me latley leauge and team especially, so lets not worry about the past 6 years or so, lets see what he's done latley.....

(overrated and all hype)

"If Detroit has patience and Igor has patience, I think he can be a star here," said Grigorenko's agent, Mark Lapush. "If he wasn't a good player, they wouldn't call him up after three weeks. They'd say 'Go home to Russia.'"

(English)

Grigorenko was taking English language classes in Grand Rapids.

(Lazy and unmotivated)

He also made contact with a Pennsylvania-based skating instructor who works with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin and intends to work with him in the offseason.

"He was in Grand Rapids for conditioning," said Lapush. "Even Scotty Bowman said 'This guy's hands and head are NHL.' Igor was disappointed that he didn't get more ice time (in Grand Rapids). He's very hungry, but he wasn't too effective in Grand Rapids. I told him that he was there for five games. If he was playing there the whole season, he would have gotten more ice time."

(But OMG!!!11 he's going to take Downey or Ellis's spot!)

What to do with Grigorenko in Detroit is another matter. He showed signs in the preseason of potential, but didn't have good speed.

"Everything here's on an at-earn basis," said Detroit coach Mike Babcock. "We'll see if he has enough pace to fit in."

Finally some can admit it or not, I don't really care but many expected this guy to come right in and be 3rd behind Z and Dats. They were expecting Bure or Fedorov all over again, and made up there mind based on a few pre season and grif games with limited ice time, and sub par linemates. Eh, for some you wouldn't be happy unless it was a "Canadian boy doing his thing", and others just follow the leader on here, but I'm going to wait til I have more than 2 blogs worth of information to base a future with the Wings off of.