Grigorenko recalled from Grand Rapids

[toby91_ca 620]

Brett Lebda never once in his entire career in Grand Rapids looked like he should ever be an NHL player. Now he's in the NHL, and many of you think he's a better defenseman than a guy who has been recognized as one of the best defensemen in the world in international tournaments.

Give Grigs a chance.

I'm sorry, I just don't think that is a good comparison at all.

#1 - I don't think Kronwall was ever thought of as "one of the best defensemen in the world", he did have a good Olympic tournament or World Championship, whatever it was, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything when it comes to the NHL.

#2 - When Detroit needed a defensemen, Lebda was probably the best available option. He played 111 games in the AHL (a lot more than 5), he didn't make the jump to the NHL. His last year in the AHL, he had 18pts in 25 games, not bad for a defensemen and I think that is worthy of a shot at the NHL.

#3 - Probably the same as number 2, but he point is, Lebda didn't take a spot over Kronwall, or anyone else that put in more work and/or who was more deserving.

[bringback91 2]

Difference is they earned a spot in training cmap. Just sad when you see other prospects coming up t he right way, through the AHL unless their talent surpasses it. By all indications at this point Igor hasn't proven that. I wonder if Yzerman would've put him in his place.

Well difference between them and Grigs is they weren't given there word by the teams G.M. Before blaming the player everyone should keep an open mind and get the whole story. Which I'm amazed Kenny's stood idle while so much of a negitive overtone has been written about Grigs. I wonder if Yzerman would've gotten himself into this situation. From the Free Press today (well documented I don't know links or whatever)

"Very few players that we have have an opportunity to go somewhere else to make 10, 15 times a bigger salary than they have here."

"We've got two choices as we sit here today," Holland said. "We tell him to stay in Grand Rapids ; (he) probably goes back to Russia . Or we recall him for the arrangement that we made in the summertime, which we've done. I'd like to think we're an organization of our word. Now we'll take it day-to-day.

"I gave a person my word that by the first of November, he was either going to be in Detroit or he was going to go back to Russia . We made a determination at this time, he's coming to Detroit . I can't tell you what tomorrow brings."

Neither can coach Mike Babcock. Asked about Grigorenko after Tuesday's practice, Babcock said: "He's in a situation here that's straightforward. The bottom line is the best 20 guys get to play. We're in the winning business. If he's one of them, great. If he's not, not a problem."

Does he look better than the last time he was in Detroit ?

"He's probably in better shape," Babcock said. "We'll see. We'll just keep watching him."

I'm sorry, I just don't think that is a good comparison at all.

#1 - I don't think Kronwall was ever thought of as "one of the best defensemen in the world", he did have a good Olympic tournament or World Championship, whatever it was, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything when it comes to the NHL.

#2 - When Detroit needed a defensemen, Lebda was probably the best available option. He played 111 games in the AHL (a lot more than 5), he didn't make the jump to the NHL. His last year in the AHL, he had 18pts in 25 games, not bad for a defensemen and I think that is worthy of a shot at the NHL.

#3 - Probably the same as number 2, but he point is, Lebda didn't take a spot over Kronwall, or anyone else that put in more work and/or who was more deserving.

To #3, who's spot exactly did Grigs take and who's more deserving? Hartigan, he's already proved his NHL worth and it's nothing. I'm just having a hard time understanding why everyone thinks he's "taking" someones spot.

[toby91_ca 620]

To #3, who's spot exactly did Grigs take and who's more deserving? Hartigan, he's already proved his NHL worth and it's nothing. I'm just having a hard time understanding why everyone thinks he's "taking" someones spot.

Cullen?

[eva unit zero 271]

Difference is they earned a spot in training cmap. Just sad when you see other prospects coming up t he right way, through the AHL unless their talent surpasses it. By all indications at this point Igor hasn't proven that. I wonder if Yzerman would've put him in his place.

Grigorenko was expected to earn a spot in training camp. Moreso than Datsyuk was when he came over. He could reasonably have demanded the same kind of clause if that was his mindset.

[bringback91 2]

Cullen?

I guess he could be mad, but should'nt he be mad at only himself after all, Downey and Ellis (both less skilled with less upside than Grigs) beat him out also.

From Kahn on MLIVE:

"I've instructed (coach) Mike Babcock to put the 20 best players on the ice to give us the best chance to win, so I have no idea why somebody up here would be disappointed that he's here," Holland said. "There's other players who are here on a day-to-day basis. There's no guarantees about ice time or what line you're going to play on or whether you're going to be in the lineup."

Babcock said a player can earn his way into the lineup with good practices.

"If someone has a bad game and someone (else) is working their butt off, they're the first one in,"

[rick zombo 3,739]

I don't see what the big deal is. Really.

Grigorneko won't be on the team unless he proves his worth. If this happens, then great. Detroit will have a 210lb natural winger with an edge and a great set of hands.

If it doesn't, then he goes back to Russia and no damage done.

This is all it comes down to. Period. There's nothing else to talk about.

Edited October 24, 2007 by rick zombo

[toby91_ca 620]

I guess he could be mad, but should'nt he be mad at only himself after all, Downey and Ellis (both less skilled with less upside than Grigs) beat him out also.

From Kahn on MLIVE:

"I've instructed (coach) Mike Babcock to put the 20 best players on the ice to give us the best chance to win, so I have no idea why somebody up here would be disappointed that he's here," Holland said. "There's other players who are here on a day-to-day basis. There's no guarantees about ice time or what line you're going to play on or whether you're going to be in the lineup."

Babcock said a player can earn his way into the lineup with good practices.

"If someone has a bad game and someone (else) is working their butt off, they're the first one in,"

Chances are, he may not get in the lineup (just on the roster, therefore, more money), so no big deal to players like Ellis. However, you have to imagine it stings a little for a guy like Cullen, who isn't given the opportunity to be here and potential win a stop in the lineup.

I don't see what the big deal is. Really.

Grigorneko won't be on the team unless he proves his worth. If this happens, then great. Detroit will have a 210lb natural winger with an edge and a great set of hands.

If it doesn't, then he goes back to Russia and no damage done.

This is all it comes down to. Period. There's nothing else to talk about.

Yes, I agree pretty much. I think the bigger issue with a lot of people around here are the expectations they had during the season when they knew he was coming. Maybe the expectations were far too high, but I think that is what has led to some people having a sour taste in their mouth.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm sorry, I just don't think that is a good comparison at all.

#1 - I don't think Kronwall was ever thought of as "one of the best defensemen in the world", he did have a good Olympic tournament or World Championship, whatever it was, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything when it comes to the NHL.

Kronwall was named to the All-Tournament team for the 2005 World Championships. The major hockey countries all sent rosters that were predominantly current or future NHL stars, including such players as Chris Phillips, Wade Redden, Sheldon Souray, Ed Jovanovski, Scott Hannan, Jordan Leopold, John-Michael Liles, Paul Martin, Ryan Suter, Lubomir Visnovsky, Andrei Markov, Tomas Kaberle, Dan Boyle, and Kimmo Timonen. I'll give you one guess as to how many guys off that list outplayed Kronwall in the tournament.

#2 - When Detroit needed a defensemen, Lebda was probably the best available option. He played 111 games in the AHL (a lot more than 5), he didn't make the jump to the NHL. His last year in the AHL, he had 18pts in 25 games, not bad for a defensemen and I think that is worthy of a shot at the NHL.

Lebda was considered a longshot to ever make the NHL and he hadn't outplayed guys like Derek Meech or Bryan Helmer, and had been the #4 defenseman on the Griffins behind three other guys who were trying to make the Wings. And his last year BEFORE MAKING THE WINGS was 12 points in 80 games, good for fifth on the Griffins among defensemen behind Kronwall, Helmer, and Meech--all of whom have superior defensive games as well--as well as former Memorial Cup MVP Danny Groulx, who scored 12 in 56 games before being shipped to Manitoba. NHL journeyman stay-at-homer Mark Eaton's 6 in 29 games was a better rate, too. Lebda making the team that season was not even a conceived possibility until it happened because of his mediocre AHL performance and low perceived potential coming out of college; he was undrafted in 2001 despite scoring significantly more during their Notre Dame freshman season of 2000-01 than teammate Neil Komadoski, who was drafted in the third round by Ottawa. Komadoski now plays for the Alaska Aces of the ECHL. How one gets 'Alaska' in the 'East Coast' league is a topic for a different thread. By becoming an NHL regular, Lebda has already exceeded what his perceived potential was even as recently as 2006.

#3 - Probably the same as number 2, but he point is, Lebda didn't take a spot over Kronwall, or anyone else that put in more work and/or who was more deserving.

Nor did Grigorenko.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

hopefully having another russian on the team in datsyuk can help grigs understand the situation. as somebody else said, who knows how much he understands in this situation. maybe dats can get him excited about his opportunity and communicate to grigs how important it is that he gives it all he has because this is likely his last opportunity to make this team. anyway, that's my last glimmer of hope.

i just hate hearing about prospects for so long and being so excited about the guy for so long to see it nipped in the bud without him ever even playing. i'm with most other people, if he's not one of the top twenty, he won't play, i just want very badly for him to be one of the top twenty. actually i wanted him to be one of the top four! i just hope dats can be our embassador and help right this boat.

[toby91_ca 620]

Lebda was considered a longshot to ever make the NHL and he hadn't outplayed guys like Derek Meech or Bryan Helmer, and had been the #4 defenseman on the Griffins behind three other guys who were trying to make the Wings. And his last year BEFORE MAKING THE WINGS was 12 points in 80 games, good for fifth on the Griffins among defensemen behind Kronwall, Helmer, and Meech--all of whom have superior defensive games as well--as well as former Memorial Cup MVP Danny Groulx, who scored 12 in 56 games before being shipped to Manitoba. NHL journeyman stay-at-homer Mark Eaton's 6 in 29 games was a better rate, too. Lebda making the team that season was not even a conceived possibility until it happened because of his mediocre AHL performance and low perceived potential coming out of college; he was undrafted in 2001 despite scoring significantly more during their Notre Dame freshman season of 2000-01 than teammate Neil Komadoski, who was drafted in the third round by Ottawa. Komadoski now plays for the Alaska Aces of the ECHL. How one gets 'Alaska' in the 'East Coast' league is a topic for a different thread. By becoming an NHL regular, Lebda has already exceeded what his perceived potential was even as recently as 2006.

Nor did Grigorenko.

My point was, Lebda put in the time in the minors and actually did something to win a spot on the roster, Grigs has done neither.

If Grigs works his way into the lineup by beating someone like Ellis out now, that's fine, he would have earned that spot, but I think there are others who deserve to be in the position his is right now more, such as Cullen.

[vangvace 12]

Nor did Grigorenko.

...because there Franzen is on IR.

So when Franzen returns (in approx. a week) do they

A: Put Drake on IR for his cheekbone.

B. Send Downey down

C. Send Ellis down

D. Send Kopecky down

E. Move Grigorenko

sarcasm on

Wait I get it! It won't be Grigorenko taking a roster spot. It's Franzen that will be the problem. /sarcasm off

Edited October 24, 2007 by vangvace

[TheBadOne 0]

I was reading an article and I saw this quote from Babcock. Truer words never spoken:

Babcock said a player can earn his way into the lineup with good practices.

"If someone has a bad game and someone (else) is working their butt off, they're the first one in," Babcock said. "Ellis has gone from a guy who played very little to not dressing to playing well and having three points and being a plus-four. It's called work ethic."

[Lamothe 5]

I don't see what the big deal is. Really.

Grigorneko won't be on the team unless he proves his worth. If this happens, then great. Detroit will have a 210lb natural winger with an edge and a great set of hands.

If it doesn't, then he goes back to Russia and no damage done.

This is all it comes down to. Period. There's nothing else to talk about.

100% agreed.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

exactly...why dont we all have a nice brewsky, watch the game tonight and see how he plays, that is if he plays...i can almost gurantee he comes out playin with a heavy heart

[toby91_ca 620]

exactly...why dont we all have a nice brewsky, watch the game tonight and see how he plays, that is if he plays...i can almost gurantee he comes out playin with a heavy heart

I doubt he's in the lineup, but you never know.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

he doesnt appear to be

[SweWings 45]

Don't know if this been looked into but theoretically - could Grigs be played as a healthy scratch indefinitely? That would mean he's on the Detroit squad but not playing - would that mean he can't leave for Russia without breaching the contract? How does this work?

[Flip-check 6]

Don't know if this been looked into but theoretically - could Grigs be played as a healthy scratch indefinitely? That would mean he's on the Detroit squad but not playing - would that mean he can't leave for Russia without breaching the contract? How does this work?

The same thought occurred to me today too actually, but a) the Red Wings wouldn't do that and b) well... that's pretty much it.

I'm not sure how much it would matter to Grigs if they did, for discussion purposes. He could still leave for the Russian Super League and I'm not sure how much sway anyone would have in "punishing" the RSL if his team there took him back 'illegally'.

[SweWings 45]

The same thought occurred to me today too actually, but a) the Red Wings wouldn't do that and b) well... that's pretty much it.

I thought so too but I wanted to check...

I'm not sure how much it would matter to Grigs if they did, for discussion purposes. He could still leave for the Russian Super League and I'm not sure how much sway anyone would have in "punishing" the RSL if his team there took him back 'illegally'.

Is there even an agreement between the RSL and the NHL? Doesn't the NHL team just suspend the player and move on?

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I thought so too but I wanted to check...

Is there even an agreement between the RSL and the NHL? Doesn't the NHL team just suspend the player and move on?

The NHL and Russia have no transfer agreement. Any player under a NHL contract can leave his team and sign with a RSL team, or visa-versa.

[SweWings 45]

The NHL and Russia have no transfer agreement. Any player under a NHL contract can leave his team and sign with a RSL team, or visa-versa.

Yeah I thought that was how it worked. Thanks.

[The_Cub 0]

Well said. I'm not the biggest fan of Babcock, but I do believe him when he says guys have to earn their game time.

I don't see what the big deal is. Really.

Grigorneko won't be on the team unless he proves his worth. If this happens, then great. Detroit will have a 210lb natural winger with an edge and a great set of hands.

If it doesn't, then he goes back to Russia and no damage done.

This is all it comes down to. Period. There's nothing else to talk about.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

So Grigs was called up from Grand Rapids, but then was a healthy scratch. So now he's not getting playing time anywhere?

I'm confused.

[eva unit zero 271]

So Grigs was called up from Grand Rapids, but then was a healthy scratch. So now he's not getting playing time anywhere?

I'm confused.

He was called up to prove whether or not he can earn a spot.

I wonder though, how the Nov. 1st clause works. Is it 'must be on the roster by Nov 1st' or is it' cannot be in the AHL after Nov 1st'...because if it's the former, Detroit can send him back to GR later in the season if necessary.

[Hiei 192]

Maybe we should trade Grigs off?