Future Logjam on Defence

[Aussie_Wing 354]

We signed Rafalski to a 5 year deal during the off season, and Lidstrom will probably re-sign for a few more years at the conclusion of this season. We signed Kronwall to a 5 year extension last year, so like it or not he’s here long term. Then there’s Chelios who at his age is a year to year proposition. Lilja is an UFA at seasons end and with the number of defensive prospects in our system I would assume he’ll be released. Lebda is signed for another 2 years. So how do you see our defensive group shaping up in the future?

2008/09:

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Chelios

Lebda-Quincey

But here’s where it gets tough. As long as he continues to play solid hockey then I see Chelios playing on for at least another season, but it begs the question, can we afford him to continue playing with the amount of defensive prospects we have in our system?

23 year old Jonathon Ericsson is in his second season in the AHL and he’s potentially a physical, point producing defenseman. He may need to spend another season with the Griffins as he’s still relatively new to the position. Kyle Quincey is 22 and played well in the playoffs last season. Come next season he’ll be as NHL ready as he’ll ever be. He needs to play and we risk losing him if he doesn't.

Then there’s Derek Meech, 23 years old who looks as though he’ll be a solid and cheap 6th defenseman. And then of course there’s arguably our best prospect Jakub Kindl. He’s in his first pro season and unfortunately I see him staying in the AHL in 08/09 when we would be better served having him up with the Wings as soon as possible.

To make things even more complicated we have Brendan Smith, our top pick in the most recent draft. He’s off to a great start to his NCAA career but is probably 2-3 years off playing in Detroit. And finally Logan Pyett, a small offensive minded defenseman who is producing points at will in the WHL.

So what’s going to happen? In Quincey and Meech we have two ready to play NHL’ers, and in Ericsson and Kindl we have two youngsters on the verge of making the top level. But with 2 guys signed long term, Lebda for another 2 years, Lidstrom likely to re-sign after this season, where is there room for all of these guys? What do you see happening?

[Blood On The Ice 15]

Yup, Trade bate. This year or in the near future.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Blood On The Ice

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

We signed Rafalski to a 5 year deal during the off season, and Lidstrom will probably re-sign for a few more years at the conclusion of this season. We signed Kronwall to a 5 year extension last year, so like it or not he’s here long term. Then there’s Chelios who at his age is a year to year proposition. Lilja is an UFA at seasons end and with the number of defensive prospects in our system I would assume he’ll be released. Lebda is signed for another 2 years. So how do you see our defensive group shaping up in the future?

2008/09:

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Chelios

Lebda-Quincey

But here’s where it gets tough. As long as he continues to play solid hockey then I see Chelios playing on for at least another season, but it begs the question, can we afford him to continue playing with the amount of defensive prospects we have in our system?

23 year old Jonathon Ericsson is in his second season in the AHL and he’s potentially a physical, point producing defenseman. He may need to spend another season with the Griffins as he’s still relatively new to the position. Kyle Quincey is 22 and played well in the playoffs last season. Come next season he’ll be as NHL ready as he’ll ever be. He needs to play and we risk losing him if he doesn't.

Then there’s Derek Meech, 23 years old who looks as though he’ll be a solid and cheap 6th defenseman. And then of course there’s arguably our best prospect Jakub Kindl. He’s in his first pro season and unfortunately I see him staying in the AHL in 08/09 when we would be better served having him up with the Wings as soon as possible.

To make things even more complicated we have Brendan Smith, our top pick in the most recent draft. He’s off to a great start to his NCAA career but is probably 2-3 years off playing in Detroit. And finally Logan Pyett, a small offensive minded defenseman who is producing points at will in the WHL.

So what’s going to happen? In Quincey and Meech we have two ready to play NHL’ers, and in Ericsson and Kindl we have two youngsters on the verge of making the top level. But with 2 guys signed long term, Lebda for another 2 years, Lidstrom likely to re-sign after this season, where is there room for all of these guys? What do you see happening?

You make it sound like this is a bad thing? It is a great thing that we have so much depth on defense. Talent begets talent. If we have injuries, we have solid replacements. If we don't have injuries, we have trade bait to make depth at different positions. Most importantly, if there aren't injuries, we have stability. There is nothing like having a core of players that like each other and grow relationships year after year. That is how you win championships! As these players grow to love the team and the area, that is when you also get hometown discounts from players who want to win with their friends more than make an extra $1M.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

One thought. I think they love having Cheilios specfically because of all these young guys coming up. Who better to teach smart yet gritty defence? I hope he stays on after he stops playing. That plus Lidstrom and these kids are getting an Ivy League top notch education at the U of D. Get Larinov back as an offensive coach (why did we ever let him go) and the all star faculty is complete.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

One thought. I think they love having Cheilios specfically because of all these young guys coming up. Who better to teach smart yet gritty defence? I hope he stays on after he stops playing. That plus Lidstrom and these kids are getting an Ivy League top notch education at the U of D. Get Larinov back as an offensive coach (why did we ever let him go) and the all star faculty is complete.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

You make it sound like this is a bad thing? It is a great thing that we have so much depth on defense. Talent begets talent. If we have injuries, we have solid replacements. If we don't have injuries, we have trade bait to make depth at different positions. Most importantly, if there aren't injuries, we have stability. There is nothing like having a core of players that like each other and grow relationships year after year. That is how you win championships! As these players grow to love the team and the area, that is when you also get hometown discounts from players who want to win with their friends more than make an extra $1M.

Oh no, I'm not saying it's a bad thing! But with 4 guys locked up to long term deals there won't be room for Ericsson, Quincey and Kindl, you would assume 1 would be traded at some stage. Then there's Meech and Pyett who would probably be the most likely to be traded considering they're both undersized defenseman who aren't all that hard to come by. IMO we should do all we can to keep the the 3 guys I mentioned above as they all have the potential to have long and successful careers. All I'm saying is that we need to manage them carefully.

[WhiteLightning91 105]

Oh no, I'm not saying it's a bad thing! But with 4 guys locked up to long term deals there won't be room for Ericsson, Quincey and Kindl, you would assume 1 would be traded at some stage. Then there's Meech and Pyett who would probably be the most likely to be traded considering they're both undersized defenseman who aren't all that hard to come by. IMO we should do all we can to keep the the 3 guys I mentioned above as they all have the potential to have long and successful careers. All I'm saying is that we need to manage them carefully.

If undersized defenseman aren't that hard to come by, than who is going to be willing to give up a 2nd line forward for one? We're going to have to trade talent to get talent. I'm not saying that we won't get anything for Pyett or Meech, but they're going to have to be packaged with some other talent. I just hope Holland & Co. don't throw in draft picks in any of the deals in the future...we need as many draft picks as we can get.

Edited October 30, 2007 by WhiteLightning91

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think the Wings trade Meech. He'll get some games in, and hes signed for a few years to a cheap contract. Hell have decent trade value should he prove himself and get 15-20 games in before the deadline.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

There is no way any of the prospects that the Wings have can be traded to fill the void on the second line. They just don't have the trade value. The only guy that might IMO is Kronwall. I say trade him before he get hurt AGAIN.

[lfd250 1]

I doubt you'll see Meech moved.

Cheli, Lids, - Older need rest

Krony - Inj prone

Now Lily Pads I'm all for using him for a trade.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i love chelios, hes such a solid dman most of the time...so whose going to start saying who we are trading for?

[Grittzkey 1]

There is no way any of the prospects that the Wings have can be traded to fill the void on the second line. They just don't have the trade value. The only guy that might IMO is Kronwall. I say trade him before he get hurt AGAIN.

Your right because an injury prone, under performer is on the top of every teams list to obtain.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Not quite so.

For example; if a team like Montreal is outta the playoff hunt by the trade deadline - they're gonna want to dump off guys like Kovalev, & Ryder (both UFA's with little chance of re-signing in Montreal) for whatever they can get...Guys like Meech, & a draft pick might be just enough to land 1 of these guys.

That's a nice idea, but with the precedent set last year with the Tzachuk, Bertuzzi, and Guerin deals, it will cost more than a couple of grade B prospects and a pick to get an impact player.

Your right because an injury prone, under performer is on the top of every teams list to obtain.

I'd trade him for future considerations that later on turned out to be half of a puck. My point? He is exactly what you said, add to that he is eating up $3 in cap space. That cap space is much more valuable than what the Wings could get in return for Kronwall.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Last year is last year; hard to say what will be come spring, & the ever so anticipated trade deadline. Sure - several teams will want to make upgrades, & some competiton between GMs could artificially raise the value of any player due to a bidding war.

Bertuzzi , & Calder cost us prospect Shawn Matthias, Jason Williams, & a few draft picks...Granted neither of these guys panned out for us, but it's not as though we gave up the farm for them either...Kovie for the past 12 months has been in Carbo's doghouse; he's the kind of player that would thrive in a puck possession system that the Wings play. My guess is that he'll become available by the deadline if the Habs are outta the running for the playoffs. Ryder will be moved as well.

My point is this, the Wings don't have what it would take to get an impact player like Kovie, or Ryder. In Williams the Hawks got a NHL roster player. Don't forget those 'few picks' contained a first rounder, and if Bert signed here, the Wings would have had to ship over another first rounder.

[redwingfan19 293]

im sorry but I DO NOT want Chelios back hear next year. If he is still able to play and another team is willing to take him I wish him the best of luck. But I want to see our young d men step up and play minutes. Cheli has been great for us but its time to move on. This is what I would like to see next year.

Rafalski/Lidstrom

Kronwall/Quincey

Lebda/Ericsson

Meech/FA depth signing

[egroen 384]

im sorry but I DO NOT want Chelios back hear next year. If he is still able to play and another team is willing to take him I wish him the best of luck.

Sorry, that's just not smart. Do you even watch him out there? You are getting a top 4 defender (easily top 4 on any NHL team and top 2 penalty killer -- and he'd warrant PP time on most as well) for close to league minimum.

Never mind his intangibles -- competitive drive, heart and desire for the game. Outstanding work ethic, leadership and willingness to work with other/younger players.

Unless he has a stroke this season and loses control of the right side of his body, the Red Wings would be foolish to get rid of a proven commodity for a "what if". Chelios could easily warrant $2 million on the open market.

That FA depth sigining you have there will easily cost twice as much and be half the player of Chelios.

Edited October 30, 2007 by egroen

[Dabura 12,207]

Trade Lebda and/or Kronwall. Meech as well, I suppose.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Dabura

[Guest wingswillwincup]

well first off i do believe meech will be used as trade bait at the deadline for a player ....

kronwall

rafalski

aren't going anywhere'

lidstrom probably will be here another 2 yrs after this one ....... chelios as much as i love the guy i might consider letting him go after next season because of all the promising defencemen we have and who's progress might be delayed but i highly doubt we'd let him go , lilja is guranteed to be gone at seasons end, i do believe lebda will be traded next year or 2 , or not resigned ...... but as for next season this is what i see our defence looking like

lidstrom rafalski

kronwall lebda

chelios ericsson

quincey

in 2009-2010

lidstrom rafalski

kronwall kindl

ericsson chelios

quincey

chelios will be what 47 yrs of age at this point ?? i wouldnt give him more then 55 games so hes ready for the playoffs and the young kids get more games

Edited October 30, 2007 by wingswillwincup

[Guest jaytan]

I think it's pretty much impossible to figure this out at this point because you never know how prospects are going to turn out, who'll end up getting injured or who we'll end up dealing in trades.

[yzerman&thewings=CUP 0]

I think you're making a very dangerous assumption about the potential of some of these guys. Just because someone was drafted high does not necessarily mean he will pan out. It is always better to have more of something than not enough.

Take a baseball analogy for example, its usually a safe bet that 1/3 of your top prospects will pan out at best. The same should be applied to hockey rationale.

Kindl has tons of potential, and I am assuming Brendan Smith isn't far behind, but these guys are still prospects. You should ALWAYS take NHL-ready talent over potential, which is also a reference to baseball prospect theory.

So hey, I say keep drafting more of these guys, its a great luxury to have. Just like the Tigers have (or had depending on your opinion) great pitching depth, its a luxury you WANT to have.

Edited October 30, 2007 by yzerman&thewings=CUP

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Dunno if I'd place Kovie (or Ryder as well) into the "impact" player category; with the Habs he's underachieved, & it's why Carbo, & GM Gainey aren't too happy with his performance...I will agree that Kovie, & or Ryder may cost us more than what we've had to pay out for Bert, & Calder - then again how many of us thought that Holland was capable of pulling off that trade with FLA to land Bert?...It's not like drafting 28th, 29th, or 30th has landed us a Yzerman clone; look what the Hawks have done with their picks (ended up drafting Steve McCarthy, & Adam Munro) and Dman Anders Ericsson from us when we nabbed Chelios - not much.

Wrong. Kovalev has ALWAYS played his best hockey in the post season. Therefore, as a deadline addition, he would be an impact player.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

My point is this, the Wings don't have what it would take to get an impact player like Kovie, or Ryder. In Williams the Hawks got a NHL roster player. Don't forget those 'few picks' contained a first rounder, and if Bert signed here, the Wings would have had to ship over another first rounder.

Detroit gave up Matthias and a 2nd rounder in the end. Not a first.

And to go by what Tkachuk, Guerin, and Smyth cost teams last year is far from an absolute of what players will cost this year. Guerin bombed, the Thrashers bombed with Tkachuk on the squad, and the Isles gave up way too much for a few months of Smyth whom they couldnt re-sign. If anything, teams will be more cautious. Granted, there will be the desperate teams, but the most desperate teams came back hurting last year. Even if you do see teams throwing caution to the wind, there is as much of a chance that theyll do it less so this year than as much as they did last year.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Granted, there will be the desperate teams, but the most desperate teams came back hurting last year. Even if you do see teams throwing caution to the wind, there is as much of a chance that theyll do it less so this year than as much as they did last year.

Never underestimate the idiocy and desperation of an NHL gm.

[Dabura 12,207]

Never underestimate the idiocy and desperation of an NHL gm.

qft