Samuelsson does not fit in

[Krystal 41]

Samuelsson is lazy and he sucks.

We have a winner!

It's not that I dislike Samuelsson... he just.. doesn't do it for me. He's not drowning himself out there, which is nice but I think he sees Pavel doing these crazy dekes and jukes and thinks "Hey! I can do that!" and manages to make himself look like an ass while getting the puck taken from him. Heck, even when my husband tried to call me into the room against the Wild when we were scrambling near the Minnesota net, instead of getting my attention he goes "Don't worry, Samuelsson has the puck. You're not gonna miss a goal."

True story. He doesn't know alot about hockey, but he recognizes that Samuelsson isn't producing a lot for the team. However as it's been mentioned, at his price? Well... ya get what ya pay for.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Krystal

[irishtemper14+25 11]

here is my point...i dont want him to be traded, i just want babcock to put him where he belongs, on a defensive line not a scoring line...he isnt scoring because he has too much pressure on him to shoot any time he touches it so he never shoots when he should.

i like him just fine on the team, i just think he should play 3rd line and put cleary on the second line

[Grinder_25 1]

LILJA DOES NOT FIT IN. It's not that hes lazy... he just sucks, real, real bad.

[redwings56 1]

Opie you are grouping everyone who posted against Samuelsson as though we all think alike? Only one guy said go get Kovalev, and one guy said go get Fedorov(a washed up player). Come on, you are trying to defend Sammy but with brutal stats even though you may think they are you 'great stats that you are fighting aginst Red Wings player bashers'. This post was created simply based on the way he has been playing this year. I am new to this forum and yet you are grouping us all as though we all bashed Williams, Lang, Lilja. I can't imagine you trying to defend Lang last year, that would be a losing batle.

As for Sammy and Ryder. Ryder has been benched for multiple games this year because Coach Carbaneau is singly handedly ruining the team. The only way Ryder will break out his funk is to be given at least 2nd line minutes, not 4th line minutes like the last 2 games he has played. Definetly would be a good move to decrese Sammy's time on the ice. The fact that Ryder makes 3mil this season is a dumb comment because he would be gone next year if he doesn't effect the lineup. Sammy has never gone over 4 shots on goal in one game this year, right Opie? Well that is because those are 'Shots on Goal' not shots that are blocked and whiffed on. He must direct the puck towards the net 10 times a night (not a bad thing, Hank does it -but he does it in good situations) Sammy is told to shoot a lot, but if he would just keep his game simple and forecheck hard he would look a lot better on this team.

The fact that Ryder has only 10 points this season is also irrelevant compared to sammy's 17 or whatever. Because Sammy averages 15-17 minutes a night with skilled players and powerplay time. Whereas Ryder is not put in the right situations to score on a poor team. Ryder would be much more useful than Sammy, but yeah why screw around with a winning formula right now. It would be nice to see Sundin show some interest in Detroit come deadline time, I am sure Holland could work something out.

[b.shanafan14 733]

^^ Great avatar redwings56 ^^

[Opie 308]

Opie you are grouping everyone who posted against Samuelsson as though we all think alike? Only one guy said go get Kovalev, and one guy said go get Fedorov(a washed up player). Come on, you are trying to defend Sammy but with brutal stats even though you may think they are you 'great stats that you are fighting aginst Red Wings player bashers'. This post was created simply based on the way he has been playing this year. I am new to this forum and yet you are grouping us all as though we all bashed Williams, Lang, Lilja. I can't imagine you trying to defend Lang last year, that would be a losing batle.

As for Sammy and Ryder. Ryder has been benched for multiple games this year because Coach Carbaneau is singly handedly ruining the team. The only way Ryder will break out his funk is to be given at least 2nd line minutes, not 4th line minutes like the last 2 games he has played. Definetly would be a good move to decrese Sammy's time on the ice. The fact that Ryder makes 3mil this season is a dumb comment because he would be gone next year if he doesn't effect the lineup. Sammy has never gone over 4 shots on goal in one game this year, right Opie? Well that is because those are 'Shots on Goal' not shots that are blocked and whiffed on. He must direct the puck towards the net 10 times a night (not a bad thing, Hank does it -but he does it in good situations) Sammy is told to shoot a lot, but if he would just keep his game simple and forecheck hard he would look a lot better on this team.

The fact that Ryder has only 10 points this season is also irrelevant compared to sammy's 17 or whatever. Because Sammy averages 15-17 minutes a night with skilled players and powerplay time. Whereas Ryder is not put in the right situations to score on a poor team. Ryder would be much more useful than Sammy, but yeah why screw around with a winning formula right now. It would be nice to see Sundin show some interest in Detroit come deadline time, I am sure Holland could work something out.

You are right I do tend to group the Sammy haters together, but very few people post different opinions and even fewer with descriptive responses, like you just did.

See I agree with you, and won't argue your post, because you are right, Ryder could possibly flourish on the second line with Flip, Huds.

But so many people discredit what he is doing, people say he can't pass, come on, seriously. Do you think he made it to this level without being able to pass. Does he pass like D or Z no but he makes passes, and say what you want he is producing.

The past few years he has been one of the teams top 10 in scoring. He is playing over his head I admitted that, he should be a third liner. But he plays well enough that he does not make the second line a liability like some here make it out. He is not a detriment to this team, he in no way makes the team worse. He may not make it a whole lot better, but he is not hindering this team.

If he was traded, to me it would be like the J.W trade, no skin off of my teeth, but only do it if it makes this team better. To me Ryder is a slight upgrade (only 10 pts more the last two years), but not what the team needs imo, to me the team needs a sniper or a great playmaker on the second line. Ryder is neither of those.

Maybe there is a reason Ryder is benched, maybe he is not a good team guy, I don't know you don't know. This team has great chemistry the lines are playing well together, and when the third line is back together, they will play with that great intensity and defensive game that helps this team so much.

Sammy's ability to play on the second line does two things for you:

1. Because he can produce in that spot D-Z-H doesn't have to be split up, one of the best lines in the NHL can play together and built even more chemistry.

2.The teams best defensive line does not need to be split up. Cleary, Maltby and Draper play a great version of the grind line. It isn't quite the same without Mac to throw down when needed, but they all play hard on the forecheck and Cleary is a lot more defensively sound than Sammy.

I don't particularly like him on the Point during pp, but again he is able to fill the role allowing Ralf and Lids to stay together on the first unit.

Just like in the Downey (I bring him up as most of you know I was vocally against him, but I admit he brings other skills to the game.) situation, Sammy brings a lot more to the table than just g/a/pts. He is on a team where he is a weak top 6 forward, but some teams he would solidly be in the top 6, they would all be bad teams admittedly.

The point is however he fills the role, and as well as Ray Whitney did, and I bet most of you would say Whitney is a better player. But you never know, maybe Sammy goes to Car and he plays the way Ray did there, and Ray plays like Sammy does here. Who knows, what I do know is that he plays a lot better than most on here give him credit for.

But these are the same people who bashed Lang all last year and he just put up very good numbers, but he playing style wasn't what people wanted.

The same can be said for Datsyuk, people ***** about he is too clean, always a lady bing finalist, they want him to have a mean streak I guess. So these people can not be made happy, even if Sammy were to put up 60 pts, he would still be ragged on. That, my friend, is pathetic.

Appreciate what you (you general not you specific) are watching, this could be one of the best Wings teams in a long time, and even the '02 team had Boyd the Void and Mathieu Dandenault!

So to say he doesn't fit with this team is absurd, seeing as it is the point to this thread. He fits quite well actually filling roles needed to make other lines and his team better. So I guess I was wrong he does things that make the team better at the same time he doesn't make them worse.

But then again I am trying to get my point across to some people who think that Lilja single handedly lost the wings the cup and that Downey will be the reason they win it!

I know you are not in that group redwing56, but the vast majority here is, so that is the Audience I usually aim my posts at. After all they do say know your audience!

Happy Holidays to you and yours!

Edit: point out to me where I said he had great stats, I said he is producing and doing a good job in his role, I never said he was great. I compared him to others by what he was making and the fact that Ryder makes over 2x his salary and only produced about 10 more points per season, that makes him a better value and more important to the wings, but not a better player or that his stats were great.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Opie

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Opie, just something to point out. Sammy gets 1.2 for the next 2 seasons. If we did get Ryder, he'd cost us half of that because he's a UFA after this year.

And I disagree, you said he isnt a sniper, and he is. He has lost his confidence because Carboneau has given up on him. If you put him with Dats and Z he'd put up his normal numbers, maybe more.

But I'm like you, I dont hate Sammy, same way I didnt hate Lang, Schnieder or Williams. I liked all of these guys, I wasnt sad to see Williams or Lang go, because Lang needed a new team and Willy needed an oppertunity to show his skills on the top lines. Sammy is a decent 2nd/3rd liner, and when he's on he's a pretty good player, but when he's not, he's not a liability, but he isnt very good defensivly, so sticking him on the 4th line firing shots, is Babs only option and people dont seem to understand that. I also agree people expect to much out of him, he was a 4th liner on Florida, and some expect him to score 20-30 goals, he just isnt good enough to do that. For 1.2 mi, I'll take 10-15 goals. My only problem with Sammy, is the lack of physicality for his size, he's 6'2 and plays like he's Hudlers size (and Hudler is more physical!). And those backhand spinaramas, but there's nothing we can do about that!

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I think Sammy's biggest mistake was scoring 20+ goals his first year in Detroit, because that became expected out of him every year after that. Another thing going against him is that he's the only right handed so-called sniper that we have in the lineup. People just look for more out of him than what he's capable of. The truth is that he's a 4th line jobber who just happens to have all-star confidence in his pathetic shot.

[dicksmack 33]

LILJA DOES NOT FIT IN. It's not that hes lazy... he just sucks, real, real bad.

My thoughts exactly. Lilja is a sucker... he bites on the first move everytime and chases guys all the way to centre ice. He does it regularly and doesn't get the difference between playing with pressure and chasing--and he never will. He's our achilles heel back there and he' ll hurt us again.

As for Sammy, I kinda like him. He fairly played well last playoffs and finished off those Sharks for us with authority... Wings need someone who thinks shoot first, otherwise, they'll know we'll make that one more pass.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

My thoughts exactly. Lilja is a sucker... he bites on the first move everytime and chases guys all the way to centre ice. He does it regularly and doesn't get the difference between playing with pressure and chasing--and he never will. He's our achilles heel back there and he' ll hurt us again.

As for Sammy, I kinda like him. He fairly played well last playoffs and finished off those Sharks for us with authority... Wings need someone who thinks shoot first, otherwise, they'll know we'll make that one more pass.

I thought this was a Sammy thread. Why do you guys always have to pick on the enforcer as the useless player out on the ice?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Pain Train 4 Lyfe!

[Stevie Y Datsyuk 2]

Sammy seems to be the Robert Lang of last season

[Opie 308]

2 assists last night!

Looks like he is a pretty good fit with Hudler and Filpula to me, but then again what do I know.

I am sure some of you are going to say "One was a second assist, hell the goalie can get those..blah..blah..blah"

Say what you want, but he helps put goals up on the board, whether that is because he is at the right place at the right time or be it that his pass got deflected, he is making plays and seems to be fitting in nicely with his teammates!

I know last year in the WCF I would have taken one of his s***ty assists on another goal to put game 5 away, but again that is just me, I am not an NHL GM, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I was watching Don Cherry 19 the other night, and Samuelson played very well in the playoffs. And was very good last night also.

[esteef 2,679]

I like Sammy, he pushes back.

esteef

[Grittzkey 1]

Sammy for Ivannas and a Draft Pick..

Deal.. We get feisty.. we get youth..PERFECT@@@

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I remember Sammy made an awesome pass in the playoffs to set up...Hank was it? Sammy actually does a pretty good job passing the puck. Its his shot that sucks. Sure its a pretty hard shot, but its accuracy is probably the worst Ive seen from a regular NHLer.

Bottom line is that what he brings to this team is something we have in spades. Defense and slight scoring ability. As KP said in the off-season, Sammy is a ridiculously boring player. No dynamics. im willing to be we could find a similar 35-40 point player who is more physical than Sammy at the deadline. Trent Hunter anyone?

Edited December 27, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[Dabura 12,207]

Sammy's a good player, and he's shown he can consistently put up respectable numbers.

However, I've never liked him on the second line. It feels like an act of charity, or a "better than nothing" option.

Bottom line: if Sammy represents a second-line slot on the roster, the Wings can do much better. Maybe not for the same price tag, but there's definitely some wiggle room.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I remember Sammy made an awesome pass in the playoffs to set up...Hank was it? Sammy actually does a pretty good job passing the puck. Its his shot that sucks. Sure its a pretty hard shot, but its accuracy is probably the worst Ive seen from a regular NHLer.

Bottom line is that what he brings to this team is something we have in spades. Defense and slight scoring ability. As KP said in the off-season, Sammy is a ridiculously boring player. No dynamics. im willing to be we could find a similar 35-40 point player who is more physical than Sammy at the deadline. Trent Hunter anyone?

How is Samuelsson good defensively? Other than Hudler, and Homer he might be the worst defensive forward we have. As for Hunter, he's been on and off ever since his career began. I'd love to have him when he's good, but you never know with him.

[redwings56 1]

I wrote the original post for this topic about 2 weeks ago. Since then though, Samuelsson has really made use of himself. He is still shooting alot but he is also skating great and now has a 6 game point streak going. He has stepped his game up on the second line while Z has been out. Good for him, I like what I am seeing more and more from him.

Go Wings, Datsyuk is Datsick!

[irishtemper14+25 11]

I wrote the original post for this topic about 2 weeks ago. Since then though, Samuelsson has really made use of himself. He is still shooting alot but he is also skating great and now has a 6 game point streak going. He has stepped his game up on the second line while Z has been out. Good for him, I like what I am seeing more and more from him.

Go Wings, Datsyuk is Datsick!

yea i guess that proves he reads these boards

and in case he does STOP SHOOTING INTO A CROWD OF 5 GUYS, JUST PASS IT IF THERES NO SHOT SAMMY!!!!!!!!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

How is Samuelsson good defensively? Other than Hudler, and Homer he might be the worst defensive forward we have. As for Hunter, he's been on and off ever since his career began. I'd love to have him when he's good, but you never know with him.

Are you serious? Just because hes only better than Hudler and Homer doesnt mean he sucks. Have you noticed that half the Wings forward squad could be Selke candidates. Babs always praises Sammy for his defense, because its there. He is a good defensive forward. Elite? No. But he definitely qualifies as being strong defensively, and the entire Wings org would agree with me as they continue to point that out about Samuelsson's play.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Samuelsson was quite comfortably the worst player on the ice last night. He played a truly horrible game. Turnovers galore and lots of soft shots. It doesn't matter to me if he chips in with a good game every now and then, IMO he is worthless.

[Copenhagen848 58]

Samuelsson was quite comfortably the worst player on the ice last night. He played a truly horrible game. Turnovers galore and lots of soft shots. It doesn't matter to me if he chips in with a good game every now and then, IMO he is worthless.

Agreed, he was playing like his normal self last night = horrible.

[Wildwings44 5]

Samuelsson was quite comfortably the worst player on the ice last night. He played a truly horrible game. Turnovers galore and lots of soft shots. It doesn't matter to me if he chips in with a good game every now and then, IMO he is worthless.

I agree! Sammy just doesn't fit on any line. Any line he plays on he brings his linemates down. That being said, I feel Drake has been worse than Sammy.