Big up to the Pain Train

[thedisappearer 291]

If he ever stops with the brain farts he'd be a really good defenceman.

true, but can't that be said about any second line defenseman?

[grimace1970 81]

Yep, I do agree, Lilja is definitely the worst defenseman we have. He is big and can fight, but he really makes too many mistakes, I hope K.Holland will trade him before the playoffs.

No, no, no. He is big and he can HIT. He can't fight to save his life.

[ethier_marc 1]

I think people need something to complain about in the middle of this awesome season the Wings are having

Lilja mostly looks bad by comparison: he's playing on a team of superstars

It's easy to reflexively bash him, it takes brains to look past the script and see a much-improved player who gives the Wings important minutes on the PK and a big, physical presence

[Andy Pred 48 337]

I just can't understand some people's logic here. We have the best defensive record in the NHL at present,

its down to the whole team. One of those D men has played better lately than we are use to so give

him a bit of praise is all I was doing, can't work out why some need to trash him all the time. Another little

thing that may be of some insight to the not so knowingly amongst us;

Lidstrom $7.6m, superstar wages with a superstar performance most nights. Expected by all.

Rafalski $6m top draw earner with above average performance's on the whole. Expected by all.

Lilja $1m, enough said! Expect the odd gaff, and he provides on occasion. Expected by some.

Lilja is no superstar and he doesn't get paid to be one. I think for the money, the Wings get better value

than other teams pay their so called 3/4 D men.

[wingnut40 176]

I think Lils has done really well so far. Yeah, last night he had that bad pass, but other than that he was fine. He's always there to block shots. I can recall one case when Ozzie was on the other side of the net, leaving the other wide open. A guy shot and you know that would have been a goal, but Lilly was right there to block it.

There was also that sick dive save he made against Columbus. He adds size and grit to the Blue Line, I just don't like how he sometimes goes out of possision to hit someone. I really hope we sign him to atleast 2 more years.

He's improved so much this season, I think he can only get better!

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i love the pain train...he seems to be playing tighter one on one which is good unless the refs are calling chincy calls, and the last couple games him and the other d are clearing the crease which is what i like to see

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I told you guys earlier in the season that Lilja had to drop the gloves to pick up his play again. Last year he finally started playing well right after he destroyed Moen. When he goes for long stretches without fighting, it worsens his play.

[up2here 41]

You aren't paying any attention.

Why are you comparing him to Lids or Cheli? They are future HoFers. They've won boatloads of Norris'. Lilja is not supposed to be that guy. He's a second line Dman.

Sure he scores less. That's not his job. He's the physical presense.The few blue liners in the league who bring the body AND the offense are either making 5 times Lilja's salary, or have not hit UFA status yet. He also doesn't clock PP time. That cuts down anybody's offense.

And he may score less, but his goals count. He has more GWG than everyone else on Detroit's blueline COMBINED.

You, good sir, have been blinded by hate. Feel free to point out all of Lilja's blunders. Someone could do the same for every single player to ever wear the Winged Wheel. Lids has screwed up... Stevie Y too. I prefer to look at Lilja as much better and cheaper than Derian Hatcher ever was for us.

No actually YOU arent paying attention. I didnt compare him to those guys,someone else said they sometimes give the puck away too. When youre Andreas Lilja you cant give the puck away ,thats the point,he has to be smarter than throwing the puck in front of his own net. People forgive the Lidstroms and the Rafalskis for that because of all the other things they do well. Liljas list of things he does well is much smaller.

[thedisappearer 291]

No actually YOU arent paying attention. I didnt compare him to those guys,someone else said they sometimes give the puck away too. When youre Andreas Lilja you cant give the puck away ,thats the point,he has to be smarter than throwing the puck in front of his own net. People forgive the Lidstroms and the Rafalskis for that because of all the other things they do well. Liljas list of things he does well is much smaller.

*sigh

So on the first page when you said it was ok for "them" to make mistakes because "they" contribute offense, you wren't talking about other Red Wing blueliners? I wasn't an English major, but in that context, using that pronoun seems to indicate you were in fact referencing other Red Wing d-men, specifically Rafalski. Nice try though.

Your whole argument that other players of a higher caliber can make mistakes but Lilja can't is beyond retarded, and you never really responded about Lids and Cheli's own goals two weeks ago... surely they suck too, right? After all, their mistakes allowed goals to be scored.

Lilja's skill set may be smaller than other defensemen we have. But he brings other things that very few Wings bring.

[up2here 41]

*sigh

So on the first page when you said it was ok for "them" to make mistakes because "they" contribute offense, you wren't talking about other Red Wing blueliners? I wasn't an English major, but in that context, using that pronoun seems to indicate you were in fact referencing other Red Wing d-men, specifically Rafalski. Nice try though.

Your whole argument that other players of a higher caliber can make mistakes but Lilja can't is beyond retarded, and you never really responded about Lids and Cheli's own goals two weeks ago... surely they suck too, right? After all, their mistakes allowed goals to be scored.

Lilja's skill set may be smaller than other defensemen we have. But he brings other things that very few Wings bring.

*sigh*I never said it was ok for anyone to make mistakes. I said that its easier to forgive players who contribute offensively for the OCCASIONAL gaff. As for Chelios and Lidstroms "own" goals they were doing what caoches teach defensemen to do,get their sticks in passing lanes and deflect pucks,they just got unlucky. Thats much different than throwing a puck in front of your own net which is what Lilja did against St Louis. I also never said Lilja sucked,his giveaways simply frustrate me.

[esteef 2,679]

*sigh*I never said it was ok for anyone to make mistakes. I said that its easier to forgive players who contribute offensively for the OCCASIONAL gaff. As for Chelios and Lidstroms "own" goals they were doing what caoches teach defensemen to do,get their sticks in passing lanes and deflect pucks,they just got unlucky. Thats much different than throwing a puck in front of your own net which is what Lilja did against St Louis. I also never said Lilja sucked,his giveaways simply frustrate me.

All Wings defensemen routinely throw the puck in front of the net to start the rush out, Hall of Famers included.

Edited December 28, 2007 by esteef

[up2here 41]

All Wings defensemen routinely throw the puck in front of the net to start the rush out, Hall of Famers included.

Very true,but Lidstrom,Rafalski and Kronwall are good passers,Lilja is not. This is my point,he needs to be more careful because hes just less skilled than those guys.

[esteef 2,679]

Very true,but Lidstrom,Rafalski and Kronwall are good passers,Lilja is not. This is my point,he needs to be more careful because hes just less skilled than those guys.

Say what about Rafalski again?

Lilly's a good passer too, some just choose to remember his mistakes.

peace,

esteef

[up2here 41]

Say what about Rafalski again?

Lilly's a good passer too, some just choose to remember his mistakes.

peace,

esteef

lol,like i said it easier to forgive a guy with 30 plus points for that. That being said said Rafalski will draw my ire as well if he makes that mistake a habit.

[thedisappearer 291]

lol,like i said it easier to forgive a guy with 30 plus points for that. That being said said Rafalski will draw my ire as well if he makes that mistake a habit.

As someone who grew up in Jersey, it is a habit. Trust me here. He will also fumble holding the blueline a lot.

My point was mostly that Lilja may screw up, but it's porportional to his role on the team and (maybe more importantly in the salary cap age) his salary. Plus, he brings the physical presense sorely lacking on the backend.

As for it being OK to make mistakes, I see where you are saying forgiving them, not condoning them. I don't see the difference. I feel they will happen and don't sweat them (unless it gets out of control...) No biggie.

*edit- and just for the record, you were comparing them... right?

Edited December 28, 2007 by thedisappearer

[Opie 308]

Seriously some of you have unreal expectations!!

Lilja doesn't = Lidstrom.

I know it can be tough, they are both wearing a helmet and have on the same color jersey, but the expectations placed on them are different.

There is a reason one (lids) is a god among Defenseman, There is also a reason one (Lilja) is a 4-6 d-man.

It is called Skill. Your top ranked D-man will have a hell of a lot more skill than your 3rd or 4th d-man let a lone 5-6 (Lilja, Lebda).

He screws the pooch from time to time, so doesn't Rafalski (Last night), so Doesn't lids (own goal), so doesn't Cheli (own goal).

The difference is that you people adore Lids, Cheli, Ralf (most not all adore him) and they are great defenseman. Lilja is not liked by most of you and is an alright defenseman. The thing is on this team that is all he is supposed to do.

I KNOW WHAT IT IS!!!!!!!

I am going to call this the Jiri Fischer Phenomenon, I think too many of you want him to be Jiri's replacement. You see a D-man with size and an offensive upside and you want him to be Jiri.

Guess what, they aren't even in the same league. But hey I am cool with that, Lils isn't supposed to be the new Jiri, or the next Larry Murphy.

He is supposed to be an alright defenseman on the best d in the league right now (stat wise not personnel wise). A job he is filling admirably I would say.

And bringing up the pass across the net with the Wings is a bad example. On most clubs you would say yes defenseman making clearing attempts through the slot would be a bad idea, so wouldn't players in the zone (d-men included, I am looking at you Sir Lids) making behind the back or through the leg passes. But on this Wings team they have the forwards and defenseman who can make those plays in their own zone. Most of the time the team breaks out of the zone it is attempted through the middle or a pass is made across the zone where the offense has vacated the zone to play the trap errr uhhh defense, while most other teams try to use the boards. Being a puck possession team the wings do a lot of passing plays that other teams try to avoid.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Say what about Rafalski again?

Lilly's a good passer too, some just choose to remember his mistakes.

peace,

esteef

QFT

Seriously, the reason people b*tch about Lilja so mch is because the Wings have Lidstrom. It's easy to point out mistakes of other d-men when you've got one that never makes any. Lidstrom is the best in the game and is compensated for it. Lilja is a solid 4-6 d-man and is compensated *fairly* for it. The point is if Lids wasn't on the Wings I don't think Lilja's mistakes would be so noticed. When Lids retires there's going to be a harsh awakening for Wings fans, when you see a solid balanced D rather than a great D with the best defenseman in the game.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Lilja is worth every dime of his contract. So many people here like to whine about some of his mistakes, but you never hear those people talking about how many blocked shots he has per game (especially on the PP). How convenient.

[Flip-check 6]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Lilja is worth every dime of his contract. So many people here like to whine about some of his mistakes, but you never hear those people talking about how many blocked shots he has per game (especially on the PP). How convenient.

I think it's also Detroit-itis that does it too NFM. We'll rip guys apart anyway, whether they look like chopped liver next to a great steak or not.

Lilja is not chopped liver, nor is he steak, but at $1M USD, he's not bad.

And remember guys, for you unconvinced naysayers,

. Poor Toronto.

[Nev 1,085]

The question you must ask yourself is this:

Who has a better #4 D-man? The only one that springs to mind is Anaheim with Beauchemin, and they're in a world of Salary Cap hurt because of it.

Anyone else?

[egroen 384]

I still think of Lilja as the #5 -- with Chelios as the #4, despite Chelios not playing every game. Come playoffs, I am sure that is the way it will pan out.

I do think anaheim is the only defense in the NHL better than ours, and not by a whole lot.

[up2here 41]

LOL.I'll say it again. I am not comparing Lilja to ANY other Wings defenseman,thats not fair.What I am saying is because he is less talented with the puck than those guys he needs to me more careful. I have no problem with him as our 5th defenseman,4th might be a stretch. I realize he is currently our 4th defenseman and not coincidentally we are shopping for a defenseman.

Edited December 28, 2007 by UP2HERE

[chrisdetroit 189]

It's very difficult to give somone like Lilja any appreciation. Why you ask? Because he does something stupid every single game. Let me rephrase... he does more than one thing stupid in every single game.

And it's not just meaningless penalties or missed passes that don't amount to anything.

They end up being potentially game-breaking opportunities for the other team. He is a disease. I prefer to call him The Plague. Yes, he does bring a few good qualities... oh wait, maybe just one: grittiness.

In all seriousness, I know all Wings fans have to remember Game 5. The potentially game-breaking opportunity he provided Teemu Selanne- oh wait... it WAS a game-breaking play. And it's not like these happen once every few games. Each and every game he does something bone-headed. I genuinely feel sorry for every defense partner that gets paired with him. At least with Lids, Lids could cover his ass. But Lilja is just horrible.

You can even look to last night, where on at least 2 occasions he provided a potentially game-breaking opportunity to the other team. Near the endof the period while he was killing a penalty, he rightfully gets called for a cross check to put us on a 2 man disadvantage. And if it weren't for a great penalty kill, it would have bit us in the ass.

Then there was the pass, I think in the first period, where he came from behind our own net and looked like he was trying to pass it cross ice in FRONT of our net. But that wasn't a pass. That wasn't a solid pass. That was a gimme-pass to the blues, which if it weren't for Osgood, they woulda scored. He made a fantastic save to save The Diseases ass.

I usually offer good discussion on these boards, and never rant on players when making posts.

But this topic just brought it out.

You are letting your hate for Lilja cloud your judgement. If you saw the Colorado game, you saw Brian Rafalski give the puck away to one of Colorado's rookies who then scored. Then there was the horrible giveaway by Meech who after giving the puck away proceeded to not watch the "late man coming" which also resulted in a goal.

Two defensemen, two poor plays that resulted in goals. But nobody mentioned them. You would rather bash Lilja. The Detroit D frequently pass the puck in front of the net. You need to be logical in your arguments

[chrisdetroit 189]

I still think of Lilja as the #5 -- with Chelios as the #4, despite Chelios not playing every game. Come playoffs, I am sure that is the way it will pan out.

I do think anaheim is the only defense in the NHL better than ours, and not by a whole lot.

[Opie 308]

I still think of Lilja as the #5 -- with Chelios as the #4, despite Chelios not playing every game. Come playoffs, I am sure that is the way it will pan out.

I do think anaheim is the only defense in the NHL better than ours, and not by a whole lot.

As far as this season goes I would say that Detroit is the best D in the league, Anaheim has the personnel and the potential to be the best, but the facts show that this year the best D is in the 'D'!

It is arguable I will say but I think ANA will be better the rest of the year, adding neids only helps, but I think currently it is Detroit, IMO!

[esteef 2,679]

I KNOW WHAT IT IS!!!!!!!

I am going to call this the Jiri Fischer Phenomenon, I think too many of you want him to be Jiri's replacement. You see a D-man with size and an offensive upside and you want him to be Jiri.

Guess what, they aren't even in the same league. But hey I am cool with that, Lils isn't supposed to be the new Jiri, or the next Larry Murphy.

He is supposed to be an alright defenseman on the best d in the league right now (stat wise not personnel wise). A job he is filling admirably I would say.

That just reminded me that we should be enjoying Fischer's big ass knocking heads around the ice right now. He would've been coming along nicely after playing for a couple of years on lines with Lids, Cheli, Schneids, and now Rafalski. Man!! Curse you heart disease!!!!

esteef