An idea to boost Sammys trade value

[Opie 308]

1. Yeah, but his role is 2nd line and point on the PP... which is most of the problem. Take him off the PP, drop him to the 3rd line, and I have no issues whatsoever with him.

2. You can't get mad at fans because they want to see a weakness (no matter how glaring to you) improved upon. If we sat around and just started threads about awesome the team, Nick, Dats, Z, Ozzie, (insert hot Wings of choice here), was... this place would get boring fast.

3. Oh, and don't worry about eating crow... he has those "good" games every few weeks. You won't waste muchg time looking...

1. He is doing a better job as the 6th forward on this team than half of the 6 forwards on other teams in the NHL. I would go get the post that EVA put up depicting this but it is already in a Sammy thread and I don't see a need to duplicate it. I get bother by people who post bashes and insults without supporting their argument or supplying a valid replacement. And until Ryder, Lecavelier or whomever you want is on the team, they are not taking his place. So the team, Babs, Holland must make due with the roster they have, so should you. Who knows the reason they are putting Sammy there, it could be that Z already went to Holland and said if you give me $X I am yours for X Years, and Holland and Babs are using Sammy to fill that role instead of getting a UFA-to be, so they can sign him. None of us know that and until then we should stick with the facts we have, not the "could be's" Or "Would be's". Instead of telling us all what do to with him and not suggesting a replacement, why not say "Joe Schmoe would be better on the pp point than Sammy, because of X, Y, and Z." Because you can't, no one on this current roster has proven themselves to be a PP point other than the three that already do it. Sammy allows the team to keep the top pp unit together. Because he can play the point (on the best pp in the league BTW) on the second unit, thus keeping Ralf and Lids together.

2. I get mad because people post 5 threads on the first two pages bitching about him. I have to maintain a smaller version of a discussion board that has 12 users, that is a lot of work. This board takes a lot of behind the scenes work, and if someone taking the time to research the threads to see that there is already a thread about this takes too much energy or time, than find something else to do, because you are officially internet lazy!! And I have no problem with people complaining about his play, but give an example, say when he does this he sucks. Fine, but don't just ramble on about how much he sucks, and doesn't fit in, and can't pass when those things are all not true and supported as untruths by facts.

3. I suggest you try watching hockey! OR watch the highlights from last night. He had quite the nice goal last night, little PP love from the left dot, [sarcasm oh but that was all set from the pass, anyone could have scored that! [/sarcasm] Right that is how it goes!

Just a little thing I like to call a LINK, it provides you a place to click on that takes you places, places you could find on your own, but this makes it quicker. Think of it like taking the train or a plane instead of having to get directions on your own and pay for gas in your car, tolls, the wear and tear on you vehicle, you get the idea.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=det.

But in case you didn't want to read it here are some highlights for you:

A> 7g 16a 23pts +9 9PIMS 16:00 ATOI 2PPG 5PPA

B> 7g 7a 14pts +4 38PIMS 15:56ATOI 0PPG 0PPA

C> 8g 2a 10PTS +9 31PIMS 16:31ATOI 4PPG 0PPA

Now tell me without looking it up A,B, or C which is Sammy, Franzen, Draper's stats. I know it is an easy one, I should have tried players with similar stats, but the only players with Similar stats are ....

WAIT FOR IT...

Wait for it....

ahead of him in the stats categories and there are only 7 players 2 d-men and low and behold 5 forwards, oh my god that would mean he is the 6th best forward on this team, who would have thunk it!!!

Sammy had a at least 1 Point in all but 3 of the last 10 games, all three of them coming back to back to back. That means he had at least a 6 game streak going into those three games. One of those games the entire team got blanked.

I will make a deal with you, after every game I will be in this thread and I will post whether IMO he had a good game or not, IF you do the same, oh but wait there is no factaul evidence I can use to argue your "He is the weakest link, he is lazy, he can't pass, He wastes shots on net!" argument.

And you know what gets me the most about that last statement, Babs is telling the team to shot more, and you guys ***** that Sammy is doing what his coach is telling him.

And if Sammy is the glaring weakness to you on this team what is the 4th line, a bunch of guys who log a total of 12 minutes a night, provide one maybe two points a night week, are not out there against the top line from the other team, that is usually one of the top 3 lines.

Edit fixed it myself

Edited January 7, 2008 by Opie

[Hank 0]

I think the only way you can make Sammy look better in a trade is to rename him Sidney Crosby.

[lets go pavel 2]

1. He is doing a better job as the 6th forward on this team than half of the 6 forwards on other teams in the NHL. I would go get the post that EVA put up depicting this but it is already in a Sammy thread and I don't see a need to duplicate it. I get bother by people who post bashes and insults without supporting their argument or supplying a valid replacement. And until Ryder, Lecavelier or whomever you want is on the team, they are not taking his place. So the team, Babs, Holland must make due with the roster they have, so should you. Who knows the reason they are putting Sammy there, it could be that Z already went to Holland and said if you give me $X I am yours for X Years, and Holland and Babs are using Sammy to fill that role instead of getting a UFA-to be, so they can sign him. None of us know that and until then we should stick with the facts we have, not the "could be's" Or "Would be's". Instead of telling us all what do to with him and not suggesting a replacement, why not say "Joe Schmoe would be better on the pp point than Sammy, because of X, Y, and Z." Because you can't, no one on this current roster has proven themselves to be a PP point other than the three that already do it. Sammy allows the team to keep the top pp unit together. Because he can play the point (on the best pp in the league BTW) on the second unit, thus keeping Ralf and Lids together.

2. I get mad because people post 5 threads on the first two pages bitching about him. I have to maintain a smaller version of a discussion board that has 12 users, that is a lot of work. This board takes a lot of behind the scenes work, and if someone taking the time to research the threads to see that there is already a thread about this takes too much energy or time, than find something else to do, because you are officially internet lazy!! And I have no problem with people complaining about his play, but give an example, say when he does this he sucks. Fine, but don't just ramble on about how much he sucks, and doesn't fit in, and can't pass when those things are all not true and supported as untruths by facts.

3. I suggest you try watching hockey! OR watch the highlights from last night. He had quite the nice goal last night, little PP love from the left dot, [sarcasm oh but that was all set from the pass, anyone could have scored that! [/sarcasm] Right that is how it goes!

Just a little thing I like to call a LINK, it provides you a place to click on that takes you places, places you could find on your own, but this makes it quicker. Think of it like taking the train or a plane instead of having to get directions on your own and pay for gas in your car, tolls, the wear and tear on you vehicle, you get the idea.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=det.

But in case you didn't want to read it here are some highlights for you:

A> 7g 16a 23pts +9 9PIMS 16:00 ATOI 2PPG 5PPA

B> 7g 7a 14pts +4 38PIMS 15:56ATOI 0PPG 0PPA

C> 8g 2a 10PTS +9 31PIMS 16:31ATOI 4PPG 0PPA

Now tell me without looking it up A,B, or C which is Sammy, Franzen, Draper's stats. I know it is an easy one, I should have tried players with similar stats, but the only players with Similar stats are ....

WAIT FOR IT...

Wait for it....

ahead of him in the stats categories and there are only 7 players 2 d-men and low and behold 5 forwards, oh my god that would mean he is the 6th best forward on this team, who would have thunk it!!!

Sammy had a at least 1 Point in all but 3 of the last 10 games, all three of them coming back to back to back. That means he had at least a 6 game streak going into those three games. One of those games the entire team got blanked.

I will make a deal with you, after every game I will be in this thread and I will post whether IMO he had a good game or not, IF you do the same, oh but wait there is no factaul evidence I can use to argue your "He is the weakest link, he is lazy, he can't pass, He wastes shots on net!" argument.

And you know what gets me the most about that last statement, Babs is telling the team to shot more, and you guys ***** that Sammy is doing what his coach is telling him.

And if Sammy is the glaring weakness to you on this team what is the 4th line, a bunch of guys who log a total of 12 minutes a night, provide one maybe two points a night week, are not out there against the top line from the other team, that is usually one of the top 3 lines.

Edit fixed it myself

wow, you're taking this very personally ... i don't think most of the posts in this thread have been bashing sammy mercilessly - in fact most have said they don't mind him, they just don't like him as a top-6 forward ... that's their opinion, they have a right to post that ... you don't have to agree, but why all attitude ... now to the statistics ...

sammy is tied for 6th among our forwards in point production:

z - 54

dats - 52

homer - 31

cleary - 29

huddles - 29

sammy - 23

flip - 23

which means one of them has to be the odd man out when homer returns ... in the past it seems like it has usually been huddles or cleary ... i'd like to see sammy dropped to the 3rd line ... i don't think huddles is as productive on a lower line, and i like the way cleary has been playing ...

that's it ... not saying sammy sucks, don't have a problem with his salary, i think he plays hard and is a quality contributor, i just don't think he belongs on the top 2 lines ...

(edit - typo)

Edited January 7, 2008 by lets go pavel

[Opie 308]

Lets go Pavel, I take no issue with people who post with logical sound reasoning, or at least backing up there argument, but when someone says "Take him off of the point, He sucks", my natural reaction is to say well what do you suggest instead. None of this is personal, it is a discussion board, do you think I go home at night thinking about this place.

For instance your point about putting Sammy on the 3rd line in favor of Keeping Dats and Cleary together.

I was not in favor of splitting up the third line about a week ago, now I see that Cleary deserves to be on that line, although I am still hesitant.

He has shown the work ethic, skill, and attitude that warrant him getting a promotion up the lines.

Cleary Dats Flip

Huds Z Homer

Draper Mule Sammy

the rag tag group known as the fourth line.

I like those combos but I think the third line took a decent hit by doing that, but as I said above, Cleary has earned the right.

Then worse comes to worse you know that you have the ability to fall back on DZH, Huds Flip Sammy, Cleary Draper Mule.

But I still think keeping ZDH together is the best way to go. In order to do that you need Sammy's Right Hander on the second line. (Which was not what I thought I would say at the start of the year)

The question I wonder about is what happens when Maltby returns?

[lets go pavel 2]

Lets go Pavel, I take no issue with people who post with logical sound reasoning, or at least backing up there argument, but when someone says "Take him off of the point, He sucks", my natural reaction is to say well what do you suggest instead. None of this is personal, it is a discussion board, do you think I go home at night thinking about this place.

For instance your point about putting Sammy on the 3rd line in favor of Keeping Dats and Cleary together.

I was not in favor of splitting up the third line about a week ago, now I see that Cleary deserves to be on that line, although I am still hesitant.

He has shown the work ethic, skill, and attitude that warrant him getting a promotion up the lines.

Cleary Dats Flip

Huds Z Homer

Draper Mule Sammy

the rag tag group known as the fourth line.

I like those combos but I think the third line took a decent hit by doing that, but as I said above, Cleary has earned the right.

Then worse comes to worse you know that you have the ability to fall back on DZH, Huds Flip Sammy, Cleary Draper Mule.

But I still think keeping ZDH together is the best way to go. In order to do that you need Sammy's Right Hander on the second line. (Which was not what I thought I would say at the start of the year)

The question I wonder about is what happens when Maltby returns?

good point, the 3rd line is a bit weaker with sammy instead of cleary ... i think DZH is clearly our best line together, but we didn't get much in the way of secondary scoring when they were together ... i wonder now that the secondary scoring has picked up with pavel and hank separated if it would continue if babs put them back together ... also i would imagine when malts and homer are back that ellis goes back to GR and babs alternates between downey and drake again

[thedisappearer 291]

1. He is doing a better job as the 6th forward on this team than half of the 6 forwards on other teams in the NHL. I would go get the post that EVA put up depicting this but it is already in a Sammy thread and I don't see a need to duplicate it. I get bother by people who post bashes and insults without supporting their argument or supplying a valid replacement. And until Ryder, Lecavelier or whomever you want is on the team, they are not taking his place. So the team, Babs, Holland must make due with the roster they have, so should you. Who knows the reason they are putting Sammy there, it could be that Z already went to Holland and said if you give me $X I am yours for X Years, and Holland and Babs are using Sammy to fill that role instead of getting a UFA-to be, so they can sign him. None of us know that and until then we should stick with the facts we have, not the "could be's" Or "Would be's". Instead of telling us all what do to with him and not suggesting a replacement, why not say "Joe Schmoe would be better on the pp point than Sammy, because of X, Y, and Z." Because you can't, no one on this current roster has proven themselves to be a PP point other than the three that already do it. Sammy allows the team to keep the top pp unit together. Because he can play the point (on the best pp in the league BTW) on the second unit, thus keeping Ralf and Lids together.

2. I get mad because people post 5 threads on the first two pages bitching about him. I have to maintain a smaller version of a discussion board that has 12 users, that is a lot of work. This board takes a lot of behind the scenes work, and if someone taking the time to research the threads to see that there is already a thread about this takes too much energy or time, than find something else to do, because you are officially internet lazy!! And I have no problem with people complaining about his play, but give an example, say when he does this he sucks. Fine, but don't just ramble on about how much he sucks, and doesn't fit in, and can't pass when those things are all not true and supported as untruths by facts.

3. I suggest you try watching hockey! OR watch the highlights from last night. He had quite the nice goal last night, little PP love from the left dot, [sarcasm oh but that was all set from the pass, anyone could have scored that! [/sarcasm] Right that is how it goes!

Just a little thing I like to call a LINK, it provides you a place to click on that takes you places, places you could find on your own, but this makes it quicker. Think of it like taking the train or a plane instead of having to get directions on your own and pay for gas in your car, tolls, the wear and tear on you vehicle, you get the idea.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=det.

But in case you didn't want to read it here are some highlights for you:

A> 7g 16a 23pts +9 9PIMS 16:00 ATOI 2PPG 5PPA

B> 7g 7a 14pts +4 38PIMS 15:56ATOI 0PPG 0PPA

C> 8g 2a 10PTS +9 31PIMS 16:31ATOI 4PPG 0PPA

Now tell me without looking it up A,B, or C which is Sammy, Franzen, Draper's stats. I know it is an easy one, I should have tried players with similar stats, but the only players with Similar stats are ....

WAIT FOR IT...

Wait for it....

ahead of him in the stats categories and there are only 7 players 2 d-men and low and behold 5 forwards, oh my god that would mean he is the 6th best forward on this team, who would have thunk it!!!

Sammy had a at least 1 Point in all but 3 of the last 10 games, all three of them coming back to back to back. That means he had at least a 6 game streak going into those three games. One of those games the entire team got blanked.

I will make a deal with you, after every game I will be in this thread and I will post whether IMO he had a good game or not, IF you do the same, oh but wait there is no factaul evidence I can use to argue your "He is the weakest link, he is lazy, he can't pass, He wastes shots on net!" argument.

And you know what gets me the most about that last statement, Babs is telling the team to shot more, and you guys ***** that Sammy is doing what his coach is telling him.

And if Sammy is the glaring weakness to you on this team what is the 4th line, a bunch of guys who log a total of 12 minutes a night, provide one maybe two points a night week, are not out there against the top line from the other team, that is usually one of the top 3 lines.

Edit fixed it myself

Dude, relax. Calm down, find some inner peace. I was not "bashing" Sammy. I simply do not like him on the point, and do not think he is a quality 2nd liner on the best team in the NHL. You say that he is better than half the second liners out there... I say we are not half of the league. I do not feel the need to talk about "answers" to this- that is Kenny's job and I see no reason to second guess him. If he feels as I do, he'll fix it. He is the one with the final say, so you get bent out of shape all day long, and I can say he shouldn't be on the point.... it don't matter. I am, however, entitled to my opinion, and I am also entitled to post it here. Sorry, bro. Maybe stick to your forum.

Our 4th line is standard for what is in the league right now... and we've been nursing injuries, so our current fourth is not our actual fourth, they are just filling in. They are depth. As far as fourths go... no complaints from me. Others feel differently. Ask them.

I never called him a weak link, lazy, a poor passer... you are making things up, taking things others have said and attributing them to me. All I said was I don't want him on the 2nd line or on the point of the PP. That's it. No negativity, no personal attacks. You, however, managed to attack me. Cool. Share the love. But of you are going to respond to my post... just deal with my post, or at least preface it "And to everyone else...".

If you don't want people talking about Sammy... don't look in threads with his name in them. I can tell you who will be being discussed in here.

You spent a lot of time ranting (about how others should stop ranting, oddly enough...) but I can't say I was. Oh, and I have watched every game this year since I returned from Iraq. I understand the game... and as I have said MANY times... I just don't want Sammy on the 2nd line or the point of the PP. Do you comprhend this? I never said he sucked or I wanted him traded.

[TimeBinder 28]

What the hell opie? Is he your brother or a family member? His shot sucks, his passing sucks(because he rarely does it without first lobbing to the goalie or off the glass), his physical play sucks & is lazy- the only thing I agree with is him being a right handed shot & him costing only 1.2. Sit him or trade him for a depth d-man. Your love for him is lazy and it sucks. You kicked my dog house - should let some things lie. Guess I'll have to be on everyday responding and not logging on every now and again giving my opinion. Sorry didn't know the new rules boyo.

[Barrie 900]

Sammy's decent, but I doubt he really has any trade value. I think we're stuck with him until his contract runs out after next year. So those of you who don't like him, should prepare yourselves.

[Opie 308]

Timebinder,

If you read this and the other twelve Sammy threads you will see that I support trading him or sitting him if there were a viable option to replace him.

Instead of just bitching about him what do you suggest the wings do?

Even the post I put up in response to Lets go Pavel, I mentioned moving him to the 4th line. Because now Cleary has shown he can play on a top line. My problem with that, as stated two post above yours, is that the third line takes a huge hit. Dan Cleary is playing great hockey next to Draper.

Disappearer,

So in one sentecne you say the wings are not the rest of the league so Sammy's spot should be a better player, yet the wings are the same as the rest of the league when it comes to the 4th line. Yet most coach will tell you that to be really successful you need to roll four lines, well because the rest of the league can't the wings shouldn't?

I am not a hyped up as you would make it. I really only post on here during work so sometimes my post get broken up, or I write them in a hurry. Sorry if I included others responses in my reply to you.

And thanks for the advice on where to post and how to use the internet, but my forum is a football forum so talking wings there would be like starting 5 threads about one player or 5 threads about goalie wars or 5 threads about bringing back feds, on here!

And if you can tell that the Sammy threads are about Sammy, why can't others and stick to those threads without 5 others just worded differently in the subject.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

finally !!!!!!! there is a god ! LOL samuelsson on the 4th line , now maybe next year we can find him a new home maybe :) hahaaha ....... i still would of kept the filppula cleary datsyuk line and put holmstrom with zetterberg and hudler, the cleary line was on fire , why mess with it

According to the Macomb Daily's Bruce MacLeod, Detroit Red Wings coach Mike Babcock has reassembled his lines to accommodate the return of Tomas Holmstrom and Kirk Maltby by putting Mikael Samuelsson on the fourth line:

January 8, RedWingsCorner: With all players healthy again, here's how the Red Wings are constructed at the Tuesday morning skate ...

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Zetterberg-Cleary

Drake-Draper-Maltby

Kopecky-Franzen-Samuelsson

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Lilja

Lebda-Chelios

Hasek (starts)

Osgood

With Maltby and Holmstrom back in the line-up, Aaron Downey and Matt Ellis will sit out tonight.

[Opie 308]

Damn Maltby is back, nice!!

Those lines make sense, Cleary has shown he deserves the time up there, he has played real hard and produced. But I agree with wingswillwincup Cleary Flip and Dats should have stayed together, not only due to there chemistry but now you have put Z with two guys that he has very little chemistry with. I think he would have faired better with Homer seeing as Cleary has shown he can play with Dats and Z can play with Homer. then again Z can probably play with anyone.

This does give the wings 4 lines that can roll in all game long, I like the looks of those lines.

Side Note:

I kind of feel bad for Franzen he is a center on a team that is so deep in that position, but he could turn this into a great opportunity to use his body, create some scoring chances, that he may not have gotten on a higher line.

[OsGOD 3]

Biggest way have him shoot less and score more... thus bringing is scoring percentage back a reasonable amount. He fire more blanks than.......

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Well, it looks like Downey is scratched again for far more valuable players like Kopecky and Drake. Yeah right. One day someone on these forums might actually show me a good reason for Kopecky and Drake's usefulness.

[thedisappearer 291]

So in one sentecne you say the wings are not the rest of the league so Sammy's spot should be a better player, yet the wings are the same as the rest of the league when it comes to the 4th line. Yet most coach will tell you that to be really successful you need to roll four lines, well because the rest of the league can't the wings shouldn't?

As I mentioned, the 4th line was not our actual 4th line due to the injury bug. Since 2/3 of it were fill-ins, I was ok with it. I don't think I can expect what is basically a fifth line to above league average for a fourth.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Well, he has no problem shooting. I think he belongs on a team that has trouble finding the net.........maybe LA.

[wingnut40 176]

hes probably gonna be gone by the deadline.

I don't think we'll get rid of anyone. We're too good right now. I can see us buying someone in case on an injury in the playoffs, but I hope we don't trade him.

I mean all the Swedes in the locker room are all pretty tight knit.

Yeah we need to have Seven Swedes a Skating!