#2 of Leetch retired at MSG

[wingsfan75 2]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/7717490...weater?MSNHPHMA

Leetch stunned the packed arena by announcing a secret he held that the Rangers will retire the No. 9 of longtime teammate and ultimate fan favorite Adam Graves, who stood a few steps away at center ice.

What an honor for Adam. He's not a HOFer but he's one of those guys that you would've loved to have back on the Wings at the time. If memory serves me right, wasn't he part of the Jimmy Carson deal?

edit: Could someone please fix the subtitle. Forgot to proof read.

Edited January 25, 2008 by wingsfan75

[eva unit zero 271]

With all due respect for Adam..

WTF??

This means that Jean Ratelle, Frank Boucher, Jaromir Jagr, Andy Bathgate, Walt Tkaczuk, Steve Vickers, and Vic Hadfield all are deerving of jersey retirement...as all were better players than Graves was. Some of those guys already deserved it...but Graves was never on that list. Good for Adam, terrible for the Rangers as an organization.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

With all due respect for Adam..

WTF??

This means that Jean Ratelle, Frank Boucher, Jaromir Jagr, Andy Bathgate, Walt Tkaczuk, Steve Vickers, and Vic Hadfield all are deerving of jersey retirement...as all were better players than Graves was. Some of those guys already deserved it...but Graves was never on that list. Good for Adam, terrible for the Rangers as an organization.

Didn't they already retire Ratelle's number?

[wingsfan75 2]

You could really say the same for Richter too I suppose. I agree with you that they sure are leaving out quite the list of greats from the organizations long past.

[eva unit zero 271]

Didn't they already retire Ratelle's number?

Not according to Wikipedia. Ratelle and Bathgate are 3rd and 4th in franchise scoring; Tkaczuk is 6th, Vickers is 8th, and Hadfield is 9th. Graves, naturally, is 10th. The only player above him with a worse PPG is defenseman Ron Greschner, who also makes a case for retirement now. But according to wikipedia none of those guys' numbers have been retired.

[toby91_ca 620]

Not according to Wikipedia. Ratelle and Bathgate are 3rd and 4th in franchise scoring; Tkaczuk is 6th, Vickers is 8th, and Hadfield is 9th. Graves, naturally, is 10th. The only player above him with a worse PPG is defenseman Ron Greschner, who also makes a case for retirement now. But according to wikipedia none of those guys' numbers have been retired.

It is a little odd. He was a good player and put up some good numbers, but nowhere near what you would consider worhty of jersey retirement. However, he was a fan favourite and meant so much to that team and city. He did so much humanitarian work, apparantly, that is what is being cited as the main reason for retirement. That said, I still don't think that is a good enough reason. It's great that he does a lot of charity stuff, but I think to have your jersey retired, you also need to have done a little more on the ice.

[wingsfan75 2]

You know it all comes down to the fan favorite part of the equation. While I agree with the fact that some players have been shafted by this in a sense, the fact is that he was both completely respected by the fans, fellow players and management. You can argue that it shouldn't mean as much as it apparently does in NY but the ultimate decision is in the hands of the organization. IMO this is sort of like the Wings retiring #33 or better yet #91 when it's all said and done.

[wingsfan75 2]

It's great that he does a lot of charity stuff, but I think to have your jersey retired, you also need to have done a little more on the ice.

I agree but I don't think that being the 10th all-time scorer on an original six squad makes him chopped liver either.

[toby91_ca 620]

I agree but I don't think that being the 10th all-time scorer on an original six squad makes him chopped liver either.

No, but consider the fact that Fedorov is 4th alltime (3rd best ppg) and 2nd alltime in playoff points for an original six team, with 2 of those 3 guys ahead of him being the #3 and #6 scorers in the history of the NHL. The 3rd guy ahead of him is number 31 on the alltime list and played all 23 years of his career for the team.

My criteria:

1st question - are you a HOFer? If the answer is no, then no jersey retirement for you.

If the answer is yes, then we need further consideration.

Problem is, it is an organization's decision and the criteria is vastly different, organization to organization.

[wingsfan75 2]

We are on the same page.

In looking up more info on him. I saw that he was by far the best player for the Rangers in their Stanley Cup season and he set the record for most team goals in a season (52, at the time) that year.

I thought it was interesting that he was traded to the Sharks for Mikael Samuelsson.

Edited January 25, 2008 by wingsfan75

[LeftWinger 5,152]

...this is exactly why you WILL see Fedorov's and Osgood's number in the rafters at Joe Louis...

...if Graves deserves it, then NO DOUBT Feds and Ozzie deserve it, and rightly so!

[OsGOD 3]

...this is exactly why you WILL see Fedorov's and Osgood's number in the rafters at Joe Louis...

...if Graves deserves it, then NO DOUBT Feds and Ozzie deserve it, and rightly so!

When the dust settles... #91 & #30 will be up there along side #5 and the rest.

[Nev 1,085]

Messier and Leetch are no brainers...Richter is a yes in my book. But Graves? Yeah, he was a heart and soul player, fan favourite, yadda yadda yadda.

He had 1 really good season (52 goals) and 2 OK seasons (38 & 36 goals).

But apart from that....260 career goals in 772 games and 1 Cup as a Ranger with no major awards = nowhere near retirement numbers IMO.

It makes the Fedorov debate on here look like a joke. As others have said, based on this criteria 91, 30, 14 & 33 are all certainties for the rafters. To which I will add 25, 18 & 96 as needing serious consideration.

[Reds4Life 51]

Leetch deserved this, Graves too, not only for his on-ice performance though.