Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 I can't believe I'm the only one who has Crosby ahead of AO. It is disputable, but watching both, I see more ability from Crosby. The way he could keep the puck along the boards is unreal, and I think that should be recognized. He is easily the biggest offensive threat in the league. Ovechkin would be 2nd, and is the better goal scorer of the 2, but not the bigger offensive threat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 10. Craig MacDonald 9. Shawn Thornton 8. Tomas Kopecky 7. Adam Mair 6. Hal Gill 5. Sean O'Donnell 4. Eric Perrin 3. Chris Neil 2. Mark Mowers 1. Wade Belak Lou Siffer, is that you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Lou Siffer, is that you? I just picked a bunch of hard working dusters. Lou would never put Mowers, Kopecky or Perrin on his list. Guys like Cote, McGrattan and Downie would be. As for actual players, Crosby is #1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) The best way to look at a list like this is the following; what players have the top-end skill to create opportunites for goal scoring, and the ability to finish those kind of plays off? It's not just about points, but all of the best players in this respect will obviously be among the scoring leaders. So I'm going to start by listing those with 1.00 or better points per game, as well as any other player who has been mentioned along with their rank in PPG. 1) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.46 2) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.39 3) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.37 4) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.37 5) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.35 6) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.30 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.30 9) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21 10) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18 11) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18 12) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.18 13) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.15 14) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13 15) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12 16) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12 17) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11 18) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07 19) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00 49) Marian Hossa, Atlanta .89 65) Rick Nash, Columbus .82 83) Martin Havlat, Chicago .78 Now that we've established who doesn't even belong in this conversation based on this season's performance (Hossa, Havlat and Nash, for those of you who missed it) we can concentrate on the 20 guys who DO belong. The toughest task will be gauging how much of a player's individual success comes from those he plays with. You have to assume that Malkin, Spezza, Heatley, Datsyuk, and St. Louis benefit from the presence of their team's go to guy. However, you have to also assume that the go-to guys on those teams-Crosby, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, and Lecavalier-benefit as well. We will award PPG penalties to represent what an elite linemate brings as follows: A penalty of -.12 PPG will be applied for every linemate you have on the list. This applies twice only for Alfredsson/Spezza/Heatley as they are the only complete line represented. This is done to represent the positive effect of playing with an elite offensive player instead of a simply 'good' one, thus the relatively minor point value for the penalty. This works out to about ten extra points on the season that a player will score with another elite talent playing with him. This results in the following top-21 ranking. Of this top-21 list, there are seven players who were not mentioned on any posted list. I have them in bold. I have also separated the list into five tiers of guys who are similar skill levels where the rankings might not be perfecty accurate when done this way. Also included is the player's 82-game point value at the adjusted PPG. 1) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33, 109pt 2) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.25, 103pt 3) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.23, 101pt 4) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.22, 100pt 5) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21, 99pt 6) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18, 97pt 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.18, 97pt 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.18, 97pt 9) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18, 97pt 10) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.15, 94pt 11) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13, 93pt 12) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.13, 93pt 13) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12, 92pt 14) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12, 92pt 15) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11, 91pt 16) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07, 88pt 17) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.06, 87pt 18) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03, 84pt 19) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.03, 84pt 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02, 84pt 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00, 82pt The thing I found most interesting? Heatley was ranked as the top offensive weapon for Ottawa on every list except one, despite the fact that he is third on his line in points and assists (total and per game) and second in goals (total and per game). If he's better offensively than his linemates, shouldn't he be outscoring them? The same comment could be applied to Datsyuk, who ended up ranked higher than the more prolific Zetterberg frequently. Also baffling was the complete omission of Spezza, who currently sits second in the league in points per game behind only Alfredsson. Interesting fact: No players from a team with multiple representatives did not play regularly with the other representative(s) from their team. Helpful actually, since I don't have to then try and apply separate modifiers for those who don't. Some may bash this cold statistical representation..but ultimately who creates the most offense is a tangible figure and I think ten extra points on a full season from playing with an elite linemate is fairly accurate. EDIT: A more comprehensive list using a greater sampling of players might abandon the -.12 penalty for a penalty of 10% of your linemates' production, which could cause some shifting in where certain players end up. For example, Zetterberg would be closer to Crosby as Malkin's PPG is significantly higher than Datsyuk's, while Holmstrom and Sykora are both at .73 PPG. Alfredsson, Heatley, and Spezza would drop further under such a system, as all three score better than 1.20 PPG and would thusly impose a greater difference than the arbitrary .12 I used earlier. Edited February 14, 2008 by eva unit zero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerfan1999 81 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 The best way to look at a list like this is the following; what players have the top-end skill to create opportunites for goal scoring, and the ability to finish those kind of plays off? It's not just about points, but all of the best players in this respect will obviously be among the scoring leaders. So I'm going to start by listing those with 1.00 or better points per game, as well as any other player who has been mentioned along with their rank in PPG. 1) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.46 2) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.39 3) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.37 4) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.37 5) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.35 6) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.30 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.30 9) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21 10) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18 11) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18 12) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.18 13) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.15 14) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13 15) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12 16) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12 17) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11 18) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07 19) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00 49) Marian Hossa, Atlanta .89 65) Rick Nash, Columbus .82 83) Martin Havlat, Chicago .78 Now that we've established who doesn't even belong in this conversation based on this season's performance (Hossa, Havlat and Nash, for those of you who missed it) we can concentrate on the 20 guys who DO belong. The toughest task will be gauging how much of a player's individual success comes from those he plays with. You have to assume that Malkin, Spezza, Heatley, Datsyuk, and St. Louis benefit from the presence of their team's go to guy. However, you have to also assume that the go-to guys on those teams-Crosby, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, and Lecavalier-benefit as well. We will award PPG penalties to represent what an elite linemate brings as follows: A penalty of -.12 PPG will be applied for every linemate you have on the list. This applies twice only for Alfredsson/Spezza/Heatley as they are the only complete line represented. This is done to represent the positive effect of playing with an elite offensive player instead of a simply 'good' one, thus the relatively minor point value for the penalty. This works out to about ten extra points on the season that a player will score with another elite talent playing with him. This results in the following top-21 ranking. Of this top-21 list, there are seven players who were not mentioned on any posted list. I have them in bold. I have also separated the list into five tiers of guys who are similar skill levels where the rankings might not be perfecty accurate when done this way. Also included is the player's 82-game point value at the adjusted PPG. 1) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33, 109pt 2) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.25, 103pt 3) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.23, 101pt 4) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.22, 100pt 5) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21, 99pt 6) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18, 97pt 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.18, 97pt 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.18, 97pt 9) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18, 97pt 10) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.15, 94pt 11) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13, 93pt 12) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.13, 93pt 13) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12, 92pt 14) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12, 92pt 15) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11, 91pt 16) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07, 88pt 17) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.06, 87pt 18) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03, 84pt 19) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.03, 84pt 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02, 84pt 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00, 82pt The thing I found most interesting? Heatley was ranked as the top offensive weapon for Ottawa on every list except one, despite the fact that he is third on his line in points and assists (total and per game) and second in goals (total and per game). If he's better offensively than his linemates, shouldn't he be outscoring them? The same comment could be applied to Datsyuk, who ended up ranked higher than the more prolific Zetterberg frequently. Also baffling was the complete omission of Spezza, who currently sits second in the league in points per game behind only Alfredsson. Interesting fact: No players from a team with multiple representatives did not play regularly with the other representative(s) from their team. Helpful actually, since I don't have to then try and apply separate modifiers for those who don't. Some may bash this cold statistical representation..but ultimately who creates the most offense is a tangible figure and I think ten extra points on a full season from playing with an elite linemate is fairly accurate. Impressive, and I concur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 eva, I want your babies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 The best way to look at a list like this is the following; what players have the top-end skill to create opportunites for goal scoring, and the ability to finish those kind of plays off? It's not just about points, but all of the best players in this respect will obviously be among the scoring leaders. So I'm going to start by listing those with 1.00 or better points per game, as well as any other player who has been mentioned along with their rank in PPG. 1) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.46 2) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.39 3) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.37 4) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.37 5) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.35 6) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.30 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.30 9) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21 10) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18 11) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18 12) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.18 13) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.15 14) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13 15) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12 16) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12 17) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11 18) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07 19) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00 49) Marian Hossa, Atlanta .89 65) Rick Nash, Columbus .82 83) Martin Havlat, Chicago .78 Now that we've established who doesn't even belong in this conversation based on this season's performance (Hossa, Havlat and Nash, for those of you who missed it) we can concentrate on the 20 guys who DO belong. The toughest task will be gauging how much of a player's individual success comes from those he plays with. You have to assume that Malkin, Spezza, Heatley, Datsyuk, and St. Louis benefit from the presence of their team's go to guy. However, you have to also assume that the go-to guys on those teams-Crosby, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, and Lecavalier-benefit as well. We will award PPG penalties to represent what an elite linemate brings as follows: A penalty of -.12 PPG will be applied for every linemate you have on the list. This applies twice only for Alfredsson/Spezza/Heatley as they are the only complete line represented. This is done to represent the positive effect of playing with an elite offensive player instead of a simply 'good' one, thus the relatively minor point value for the penalty. This works out to about ten extra points on the season that a player will score with another elite talent playing with him. This results in the following top-21 ranking. Of this top-21 list, there are seven players who were not mentioned on any posted list. I have them in bold. I have also separated the list into five tiers of guys who are similar skill levels where the rankings might not be perfecty accurate when done this way. Also included is the player's 82-game point value at the adjusted PPG. 1) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33, 109pt 2) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.25, 103pt 3) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.23, 101pt 4) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.22, 100pt 5) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21, 99pt 6) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18, 97pt 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.18, 97pt 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.18, 97pt 9) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18, 97pt 10) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.15, 94pt 11) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13, 93pt 12) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.13, 93pt 13) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12, 92pt 14) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12, 92pt 15) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11, 91pt 16) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07, 88pt 17) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.06, 87pt 18) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03, 84pt 19) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.03, 84pt 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02, 84pt 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00, 82pt The thing I found most interesting? Heatley was ranked as the top offensive weapon for Ottawa on every list except one, despite the fact that he is third on his line in points and assists (total and per game) and second in goals (total and per game). If he's better offensively than his linemates, shouldn't he be outscoring them? The same comment could be applied to Datsyuk, who ended up ranked higher than the more prolific Zetterberg frequently. Also baffling was the complete omission of Spezza, who currently sits second in the league in points per game behind only Alfredsson. Interesting fact: No players from a team with multiple representatives did not play regularly with the other representative(s) from their team. Helpful actually, since I don't have to then try and apply separate modifiers for those who don't. Some may bash this cold statistical representation..but ultimately who creates the most offense is a tangible figure and I think ten extra points on a full season from playing with an elite linemate is fairly accurate. EDIT: A more comprehensive list using a greater sampling of players might abandon the -.12 penalty for a penalty of 10% of your linemates' production, which could cause some shifting in where certain players end up. For example, Zetterberg would be closer to Crosby as Malkin's PPG is significantly higher than Datsyuk's, while Holmstrom and Sykora are both at .73 PPG. Alfredsson, Heatley, and Spezza would drop further under such a system, as all three score better than 1.20 PPG and would thusly impose a greater difference than the arbitrary .12 I used earlier. I think this list is short-sighted. Alfie has only been more productive this year, than Heatley has. And Spezza on his one - even with good top 6 winger on his line, Im not sure hed be producing. I think most peoples lists are in terms of raw talent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 My 11-20... Because I like lists. 11. Datsyuk 12. Nash 13. Gaborik 14. Spezza 15. Getzlaf 16. St. Louis 17. Sundin 18. Jokinen 19. Gaborik 20. Jagr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 I think this list is short-sighted. Alfie has only been more productive this year, than Heatley has. And Spezza on his one - even with good top 6 winger on his line, Im not sure hed be producing. I think most peoples lists are in terms of raw talent. If we're judging by raw talent, then Alexei Kovalev belongs in the top five. I personally judge the best offensive threats by who actually creates the most offense. Alfredsson was the best in PPG on the line in 2005-06. Spezza held the honer last year. In fact, this is the third year running where Spezza's PPG has been better than Heatley's on the same line. Alfredsson has beaten Heatley and Spezza each twice, and Heatley bested Alfredsson once and Spezza not at all. In fact, 2006-07 is only the second time (2001-02 the first) in his six year career that Heatley has outproduced Alfredsson on a per-game basis. Combine with Alfredsson's superior durability, and it's not hard to call Alfie the better offensive player. Heatley has outproduced Spezza only twice in their careers, with Spezza taking the last three seasons. If anyone on that line is riding his linemates' coattails the past few years, it's Heatley. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 My 11-20... Because I like lists. 11. Datsyuk 12. Nash 13. Gaborik 14. Spezza 15. Getzlaf 16. St. Louis 17. Sundin 18. Jokinen 19. Gaborik 20. Jagr He's so fast, he causes an illusionary double that's almost as effective as the real thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imisssergei 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 The best way to look at a list like this is the following; what players have the top-end skill to create opportunites for goal scoring, and the ability to finish those kind of plays off? It's not just about points, but all of the best players in this respect will obviously be among the scoring leaders. So I'm going to start by listing those with 1.00 or better points per game, as well as any other player who has been mentioned along with their rank in PPG. 1) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.46 2) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.39 3) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.37 4) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.37 5) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.35 6) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.30 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.30 9) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21 10) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18 11) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18 12) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.18 13) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.15 14) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13 15) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12 16) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12 17) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11 18) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07 19) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00 49) Marian Hossa, Atlanta .89 65) Rick Nash, Columbus .82 83) Martin Havlat, Chicago .78 Now that we've established who doesn't even belong in this conversation based on this season's performance (Hossa, Havlat and Nash, for those of you who missed it) we can concentrate on the 20 guys who DO belong. The toughest task will be gauging how much of a player's individual success comes from those he plays with. You have to assume that Malkin, Spezza, Heatley, Datsyuk, and St. Louis benefit from the presence of their team's go to guy. However, you have to also assume that the go-to guys on those teams-Crosby, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, and Lecavalier-benefit as well. We will award PPG penalties to represent what an elite linemate brings as follows: A penalty of -.12 PPG will be applied for every linemate you have on the list. This applies twice only for Alfredsson/Spezza/Heatley as they are the only complete line represented. This is done to represent the positive effect of playing with an elite offensive player instead of a simply 'good' one, thus the relatively minor point value for the penalty. This works out to about ten extra points on the season that a player will score with another elite talent playing with him. This results in the following top-21 ranking. Of this top-21 list, there are seven players who were not mentioned on any posted list. I have them in bold. I have also separated the list into five tiers of guys who are similar skill levels where the rankings might not be perfecty accurate when done this way. Also included is the player's 82-game point value at the adjusted PPG. 1) Alexander Ovechkin, Washington 1.33, 109pt 2) Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 1.25, 103pt 3) Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 1.23, 101pt 4) Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa 1.22, 100pt 5) Jarome Iginla, Calgary 1.21, 99pt 6) Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 1.18, 97pt 7) Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh 1.18, 97pt 8) Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay 1.18, 97pt 9) Joe Thornton, San Jose 1.18, 97pt 10) Jason Spezza, Ottawa 1.15, 94pt 11) Marc Savard, Boston 1.13, 93pt 12) Dany Heatley, Ottawa 1.13, 93pt 13) Mike Ribeiro, Dallas 1.12, 92pt 14) Marian Gaborik, Minnesota 1.12, 92pt 15) Mike Richards, Philadelphia 1.11, 91pt 16) Paul Stastny, Colorado 1.07, 88pt 17) Martin St.Louis, Tampa Bay 1.06, 87pt 18) Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim 1.03, 84pt 19) Pavel Datsyuk, Detroit 1.03, 84pt 20) Mats Sundin, Toronto 1.02, 84pt 21) Olli Jokinen, Florida 1.00, 82pt The thing I found most interesting? Heatley was ranked as the top offensive weapon for Ottawa on every list except one, despite the fact that he is third on his line in points and assists (total and per game) and second in goals (total and per game). If he's better offensively than his linemates, shouldn't he be outscoring them? The same comment could be applied to Datsyuk, who ended up ranked higher than the more prolific Zetterberg frequently. Also baffling was the complete omission of Spezza, who currently sits second in the league in points per game behind only Alfredsson. Interesting fact: No players from a team with multiple representatives did not play regularly with the other representative(s) from their team. Helpful actually, since I don't have to then try and apply separate modifiers for those who don't. Some may bash this cold statistical representation..but ultimately who creates the most offense is a tangible figure and I think ten extra points on a full season from playing with an elite linemate is fairly accurate. EDIT: A more comprehensive list using a greater sampling of players might abandon the -.12 penalty for a penalty of 10% of your linemates' production, which could cause some shifting in where certain players end up. For example, Zetterberg would be closer to Crosby as Malkin's PPG is significantly higher than Datsyuk's, while Holmstrom and Sykora are both at .73 PPG. Alfredsson, Heatley, and Spezza would drop further under such a system, as all three score better than 1.20 PPG and would thusly impose a greater difference than the arbitrary .12 I used earlier. That is an impressive statistical representation you have there. But seriously. Dude. Stand up. Walk away from the computer. Take a deep breath. Here is how I'd break down the list. 5 and 5. 5 biggest scoring threats (since lockout) 1. Alex Ovechkin 2. Kovalchuk 3. Lecavalier 4. Heatley 5. Iginla 5 biggest playmakers (since lockout) 1. Thornton 2. Crosby 3. Datsyuk 4. Spezza 5. Savard Most underrated scorer (since lockout) 1. Jokinen Most underrated playmaker (since lockout) 1. Brad Richards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jawbreaker 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 You have to assume that Malkin, Spezza, Heatley, Datsyuk, and St. Louis benefit from the presence of their team's go to guy. I have to say that Dats have scored points and carried this team even without Z, and Gino is putting some "decent" numbers without Crosby. So it's not that easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 He's so fast, he causes an illusionary double that's almost as effective as the real thing? Whoops. Hahaha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Whoa, I can't see how any top ten list would not include Crosby - even if you dislike the guy. Sure, he gets more assists then the lot, but one on one, there is no denying that Crosby is one of the tops in the league. If your going to include Martin Havlat, who has 21 points in 29 games this season, you have GOT to have Crosby. Plus, your reasoning for putting Datsyuk on the list fits perfectly for Crosby's style of play. No, I don't have to have Crosby on my list. And no, I don't hate Crosby. I'm one of biggest defenders on this board actually. You can look it up. Anyhoot, I don't think the reasoning I used for Datsyuk applies to Crosby solely because its my opinion that Datsyuk has the slicker moves and better wrist shot. Its just an opinion and maybe its based more on flash than on substance but I just think Dats is the slickest guy in the league and if he wanted he could score 50 goals without much problem. As for eva's crazy ass assessment. I graduated from college in 99, I don't need this s*** anymore. j/k. I made my list NOT based on this season alone. So in my mind Martin Havlat has every right to be there because he's a sick goal scorer even if THIS season he's not putting up big numbers and is still nagged by injuries. As for the generating total offense and other such numbers. I didn't choose to make my list based on that. If I did, Crosby would've been at the top of it. My list is solely based on if I had to have a guy get me a goal....not a pass, not a setup but a goal, and to be able to do it himself, create his own space, get around people and put it in the back of the net....these are the guys that I have on my list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2probert4 8 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 What's to stop Chris Chelios from being the biggest offensive threat? Yeah ! What about the Pain Train ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jeremy88 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 we should put osgood on the list...we know how much he loves those empty nets...he sees the other team pull their goalie and all of a sudden he gets fired up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 1. Alexander Ovechkin 2. Ilya Kovalchuk 3. Sidney Crosby 4. Vinny Lecavalier 5. Daniel Alfredsson 6. Dany Heatley 7. Marian Gaborik 8. Evgeni Malkin 9. Rick Nash 10. Pavel Datsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerfan1999 81 Report post Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) My list is solely based on if I had to have a guy get me a goal....not a pass, not a setup but a goal, and to be able to do it himself, create his own space, get around people and put it in the back of the net....these are the guys that I have on my list. Fair enough, you have the right to your opinion. But seriously, watch Edited February 14, 2008 by Yzerfan1999 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) Fair enough, you have the right to your opinion. But seriously, watch You're preaching to the choir my good friend. As I said, if I wanted my list to be based on total offensive production for both the player and his linemates, I'd go with Sid at #1. I think he's the #1 player in the world as a matter of fact. An opinion i've defended vehemently on these boards before. But up against Datsyuk, Havlat, AO, etc....he isn't the pure goal scoring machine. In a way he's alot like Gretz. Nothing flashy just a knack for putting it into the net. My list just has more flash to it is all. Not saying he's not a prolific scorer or anything, just the way they go in isn't as exciting to me as what some of the other guys can do. PS: And as I mentioned earlier I think Dats could be a goal scoring monster if he felt like it. Edited February 14, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imisssergei 0 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Fair enough, you have the right to your opinion. But seriously, watch I think that video would actually do more to reinforce GST's opinion and his list with the omission of Crosby. Crosby isn't a goal scoring threat. He is a fantastic playmaker. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sid can't put the biscuit in the basket, we all know he can. He just isn't nearly the threat that Ovechkin, Havlat, ect. are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerfan1999 81 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Crosby isn't a goal scoring threat. Whatever... I give up! Seemed like a pretty well rounded highlight reel to me. The first couple are passes, but the goals 7-4, 2 and 1 are pretty impressive. But I can see what you guys are getting at - I guess I am taking it more as on 'Offensive Threat' rather then 'Pure Goal Scoring Threat'. But I think you have made the hockey gods angry with that comment...haha. Edit - But wait a minute...thats the title of the Thread - 'Offensive Threat' NOT 'Pure Goal Scorers' Edited February 15, 2008 by Yzerfan1999 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 I have to say that Dats have scored points and carried this team even without Z, and Gino is putting some "decent" numbers without Crosby. So it's not that easy. But all of the mentioned players benefit from their linemate's presence. If you think Z or Dats, or Crosby, Malkin, etc. would definitely be as dominant offensively if you replaced their elite linemate with a Mikael Samuelsson or another secondary scoring forward who is not capable of elite-level offense, if they played the same kind of minutes, well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imisssergei 0 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Whatever... I give up! Seemed like a pretty well rounded highlight reel to me. The first couple are passes, but the goals 7-4, 2 and 1 are pretty impressive. But I can see what you guys are getting at - I guess I am taking it more as on 'Offensive Threat' rather then 'Pure Goal Scoring Threat'. But I think you have made the hockey gods angry with that comment...haha. Edit - But wait a minute...thats the title of the Thread - 'Offensive Threat' NOT 'Pure Goal Scorers' You took that out of context. Read further.... That's right, I acknowledged that Crosby can score. Just not at the rate of the Ovechkins, and Havlats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Note: An offensive threat is not only someone who can score, but creates offense as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerfan1999 81 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Note: An offensive threat is not only someone who can score, but creates offense as well. There ya go...so does Crosby make the cut now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
