Top 10 Offensive Threats

[imisssergei 0]

There ya go...so does Crosby make the cut now?

Read below. His list wasn't about offensive threat. He based his on goal scoring threat.

So what's the big deal?

No, I don't have to have Crosby on my list. And no, I don't hate Crosby. I'm one of biggest defenders on this board actually. You can look it up.

Anyhoot, I don't think the reasoning I used for Datsyuk applies to Crosby solely because its my opinion that Datsyuk has the slicker moves and better wrist shot. Its just an opinion and maybe its based more on flash than on substance but I just think Dats is the slickest guy in the league and if he wanted he could score 50 goals without much problem.

As for eva's crazy ass assessment. I graduated from college in 99, I don't need this s*** anymore. j/k.

I made my list NOT based on this season alone. So in my mind Martin Havlat has every right to be there because he's a sick goal scorer even if THIS season he's not putting up big numbers and is still nagged by injuries.

As for the generating total offense and other such numbers. I didn't choose to make my list based on that. If I did, Crosby would've been at the top of it.

My list is solely based on if I had to have a guy get me a goal....not a pass, not a setup but a goal, and to be able to do it himself, create his own space, get around people and put it in the back of the net....these are the guys that I have on my list.

[eva unit zero 271]

No, I don't have to have Crosby on my list. And no, I don't hate Crosby. I'm one of biggest defenders on this board actually. You can look it up.

Anyhoot, I don't think the reasoning I used for Datsyuk applies to Crosby solely because its my opinion that Datsyuk has the slicker moves and better wrist shot. Its just an opinion and maybe its based more on flash than on substance but I just think Dats is the slickest guy in the league and if he wanted he could score 50 goals without much problem.

As for eva's crazy ass assessment. I graduated from college in 99, I don't need this s*** anymore. j/k.

I made my list NOT based on this season alone. So in my mind Martin Havlat has every right to be there because he's a sick goal scorer even if THIS season he's not putting up big numbers and is still nagged by injuries.

As for the generating total offense and other such numbers. I didn't choose to make my list based on that. If I did, Crosby would've been at the top of it.

My list is solely based on if I had to have a guy get me a goal....not a pass, not a setup but a goal, and to be able to do it himself, create his own space, get around people and put it in the back of the net....these are the guys that I have on my list.

To address the point about Havlat...

In his BEST season, he was exactly a pont per game in 2003-04. That would tie Olli Jokinen for 21st place if he did it this season. Not exactly 'top ten' material. As far as his goal scoring prowess, he scored a career-high 31 goals in 68 games that same season, pace for 37 goals on 82 games. Only in his injury shortened 2005-06 campaign, where he scored 9 goals in 18 games, did he best that pace, and even then only slightly. Many other guys, Crosby included, have bested Havlat's career mark multiple times. Crosby has scored 36 and 39 goals in his first two seasons, and was on pace for 36 again this season. Whether you think much of his goal scoring abilities or not...Crosby is a better goal scorer than Havlat. This is the third season in his career Nash has been scoring at 40+ goal pace...but he is one of the most one-dimensional players in the league in that he is not only a defensive liability, but he also is a poor passer. Goals, sure, he's one of the better scorers. But overal offensive top players does not include Nash.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Read below. His list wasn't about offensive threat. He based his on goal scoring threat.

So what's the big deal?

Um..there is no big deal, I was just asking GST if Crosby makes the list of offensive threats...?

GST, based on your earlier responses, is it safe to say you would include Crosby on a list of 'Offensive Threats'? Top 10?

Edited February 15, 2008 by Yzerfan1999

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

To address the point about Havlat...

In his BEST season, he was exactly a pont per game in 2003-04. That would tie Olli Jokinen for 21st place if he did it this season. Not exactly 'top ten' material. As far as his goal scoring prowess, he scored a career-high 31 goals in 68 games that same season, pace for 37 goals on 82 games. Only in his injury shortened 2005-06 campaign, where he scored 9 goals in 18 games, did he best that pace, and even then only slightly. Many other guys, Crosby included, have bested Havlat's career mark multiple times. Crosby has scored 36 and 39 goals in his first two seasons, and was on pace for 36 again this season. Whether you think much of his goal scoring abilities or not...Crosby is a better goal scorer than Havlat. This is the third season in his career Nash has been scoring at 40+ goal pace...but he is one of the most one-dimensional players in the league in that he is not only a defensive liability, but he also is a poor passer. Goals, sure, he's one of the better scorers. But overal offensive top players does not include Nash.

Eva, you don't need to drum up all the stats for me. I'm well aware of his stats.

But in my opinion the stats don't do justice to the natural ability he has. He has amazing speed and is a very good one on one attacker.

I don't need stats to tell me this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzqzkqIllcw

you can see in many of those clips his great speed and ability to beat defenders and open up his own space, to me that equals dangerous.....oh yeah, and he finishes

i don't need no stinkin' stats

PS: You'll not ever convince me that Havlat shouldn't be on my list. I stated CLEARLY, that my list was based upon alot of flash and dash and not just raw goal scoring output. I'm not talking about simple numbers like a guy who scores 39 is a better goal scorer than the guy who scores 31. In my opinion, that's a 3rd grade kind of assessment. To each his own. Havlat stays on my list.

PPS: You know, there's another guy on my list with even worse goal scoring numbers. How come you aren't attacking him? Couldn't be because he plays for the Wings is it? Dats plays more games and scores fewer goals than Havlat's projected numbers which you provided. And since my list is based on goal scoring and not total offensive projections, maybe you should start with the most obviously strange inclusion on my list before moving to Havlat.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[toby91_ca 620]

That's right, I acknowledged that Crosby can score. Just not at the rate of the Ovechkins, and Havlats.

Havlat.....Havlat??

I think some people don't give Crosby enough credit for his goal scoring ability. He certainly is a pass first guy, but in terms of ability, he could be potting quite a few more goals than he does. Let's also not ignore the fact that he was 1 goal away from 40 in his rookie year.

Havlat, well, his best year, he scored 31 goals. Crosby was well on his way to his 3rd 35+ goal season in a row before getting hurt. I know Havlat has been hurt a lot in his career, but even on a per game basis, he scores less than Crosby.

[toby91_ca 620]

I stated CLEARLY, that my list was based upon alot of flash and dash and not just raw goal scoring output.

Flash and dash is nice and all, but how does that make you a bigger threat?

[eva unit zero 271]

Eva, you don't need to drum up all the stats for me. I'm well aware of his stats.

But in my opinion the stats don't do justice to the natural ability he has. He has amazing speed and is a very good one on one attacker.

I don't need stats to tell me this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzqzkqIllcw

you can see in many of those clips his great speed and ability to beat defenders and open up his own space, to me that equals dangerous.....oh yeah, and he finishes

i don't need no stinkin' stats

PS: You'll not ever convince me that Havlat shouldn't be on my list. I stated CLEARLY, that my list was based upon alot of flash and dash and not just raw goal scoring output. I'm not talking about simple numbers like a guy who scores 39 is a better goal scorer than the guy who scores 31. In my opinion, that's a 3rd grade kind of assessment. To each his own. Havlat stays on my list.

PPS: You know, there's another guy on my list with even worse goal scoring numbers. How come you aren't attacking him? Couldn't be because he plays for the Wings is it? Dats plays more games and scores fewer goals than Havlat's projected numbers which you provided. And since my list is based on goal scoring and not total offensive projections, maybe you should start with the most obviously strange inclusion on my list before moving to Havlat.

I would have addressed Datsyuk, but Dats is a more skilled goal scorer who thinks pass first, while Havlat is more of a shoot-first guy without significantly different goal scoring output. That and you already stated you felt Dats belonged on your list not because of his actual output but because if he took more of a shoot-first attitude, he'd be a 50-goal scorer. It's like I said in the 'greatest goal scorer' thread, when looking at a guy's goal scoring numbers you have to take into account how his playmaking abilities factor in; i.e. a 30-goal scorer with 50 assists is probably a better goal scorer than a 30-goal scorer with 30 assists, but because his playmaking makes more of a difference the goal numbers are similar.

I'm not going to address the underlying problem of ranking the best players by who has scored a few highlight goals, because I have better things to do.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

edited because I need to be nicer

Edited February 15, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Flash and dash is nice and all, but how does that make you a bigger threat?

I mentioned already my list was based on guys that I thought could, with their own ability, generate goal scoring opportunities and finish them.

Specifically I am talking about but not limiting the abilities to breakaway speed, one on one ability, dekeing ability and the ability to maneuver in tight spaces with the puck and still get around people to get off quality chances.

That's why I have a guy like Havlat on my list. He fits all the criteria above.

PS: I thought about it plenty but I just don't have Sid on my list. I don't begrudge anyone who has him on their own list but I don't have him on mine.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

If we're judging by raw talent, then Alexei Kovalev belongs in the top five. I personally judge the best offensive threats by who actually creates the most offense.

Alfredsson was the best in PPG on the line in 2005-06. Spezza held the honer last year. In fact, this is the third year running where Spezza's PPG has been better than Heatley's on the same line. Alfredsson has beaten Heatley and Spezza each twice, and Heatley bested Alfredsson once and Spezza not at all. In fact, 2006-07 is only the second time (2001-02 the first) in his six year career that Heatley has outproduced Alfredsson on a per-game basis. Combine with Alfredsson's superior durability, and it's not hard to call Alfie the better offensive player. Heatley has outproduced Spezza only twice in their careers, with Spezza taking the last three seasons.

If anyone on that line is riding his linemates' coattails the past few years, it's Heatley.

How do you figure that? You want to nitpick my inclusion of Havlat. Well, check these numbers out:

Goals per Game

Havlat .357

Kovalev . 342

The 2nd bold statement is how YOU JUDGE who the best offensive threats are. I intentionally chose to create my list differently. I went with who I think are the best, pure goal scorers with no other outside influences such as assists or total points. That's not to say my list is based simply on goals per game, which it is not as i've already listed the qualities I used to create my list.

Furthermore, since you have no problem using statistical figures based on what ifs I'm sure you won't begrudge me doing the same:

Havlat's Goals over an 82 game season during his best seasons.

2003/2004 = 37 good enough for 6th in the league

2005/2006 = 41 good enough for 10th in the league

2006/2007 = 36 good enough for 16th in the league

This season has been his worst. I chalk it up to injury. But injured or not, when healthy he's got amazing skill. And its true that he did not storm onto the stage and put up huge goal numbers early in his career. But, even when injured, during his most prolific years, his goal numbers work out well enough to in my mind, include him on my most dangerous goal scorers list. So that's why he's on my list. You don't have to have him on yours and neither does anyone else.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted