Future roster?

[eva unit zero 271]

Well, people are already speculating what rentals will sign where next season, so I figured why not a thread about what you feel will happen with the Wings the next few years as far as contracts and such are concerned. Projected cap numbers are in italics. My take:

2008-09 Detroit Red Wings

Pavel Datsyuk $6.7m

UFA Top-6 forward $4m

Henrik Zetterberg $2.65m

Daniel Cleary $2.5m

Tomas Holmstrom $2.25m

Kris Draper $1.583m

Valtteri Filppula $1.5m

Mikael Samuelsson $1.2m

Jiri Hudler $1.015m

Johan Franzen $942k

Kirk Maltby $883k

Tomas Kopecky $500k

Darren McCarty $550k

Aaron Downey $550k

FORWARDS $26.823m

Nicklas Lidstrom $7.45m

Brian Rafalski $6m

Niklas Kronwall $3m

Chris Chelios $1.1m

Andreas Lilja $1.1m

Brett Lebda $650k

Derek Meech $483k

DEFENSEMEN $19.783m

Chris Osgood $1.417m

Jimmy Howard $900k

GOALIES $2.317m

TOTAL $48.923m

2009-10 Detroit Red Wings

Henrik Zetterberg $7m

Pavel Datsyuk $6.7m

UFA Top-6 forward $4m

Daniel Cleary $2.5m

Tomas Holmstrom $2.25m

Kris Draper $1.583m

Valtteri Filppula $1.5m

Jiri Hudler $1.45m

Mikael Samuelsson $1.25m

Johan Franzen $1.2m

Kirk Maltby $883k

Tomas Kopecky $750k

Darren McCarty $550k

Aaron Downey $550k

FORWARDS $32.166m

Nicklas Lidstrom $7.45m

Brian Rafalski $6m

Niklas Kronwall $3m

Chris Chelios $1.1m

Andreas Lilja $1.1m

Brett Lebda $650k

Derek Meech $483k

DEFENSEMEN $19.783m

Chris Osgood $1.417m

Jimmy Howard $900k

GOALIES $2.317m

TOTAL $54.266m

Lilja is included because he is expected to be resigned by Holland and would likely ink a two-year deal. These rosters also do not account for potential trades that may happen between now and then.

[ShanahanMan 473]

It'd be really funny if Holland doesn't sign a top six forward during the post-season then says "we're saving cap space for the trade deadline"

Edited February 27, 2008 by ShanahanMan

[eva unit zero 271]

It'd be really funny if Holland doesn't sign a top six forward during the post-season then says "we're saving cap space for the trade deadline"

My projected roster saves about as much cap space as we saved this season. If more is spent, Holland could realistically have Hossa in Detroit.

[ShanahanMan 473]

i really like your roster except for the fact that I think we'll be replacing Lilja on defense and hopefully signing Stuart to an extension (if he works out well for us)

Edited February 27, 2008 by ShanahanMan

[vangvace 12]

If most of the current RFA/UFAs don't resign before 1 Jul. I don't think that the top-6 forward is going to happen. Especially since a 4 mil top six forward signing might not been seen again until the cap falls. It wouldn't surprise me to see Cleary get bumped into the 3.1mil range either after the past two seasons.

I like that Downey's coming back too. (Matt: we need finger crossed emotions)

[eva unit zero 271]

If most of the current RFA/UFAs don't resign before 1 Jul. I don't think that the top-6 forward is going to happen. Especially since a 4 mil top six forward signing might not been seen again until the cap falls. It wouldn't surprise me to see Cleary get bumped into the 3.1mil range either after the past two seasons.

I like that Downey's coming back too. (Matt: we need finger crossed emotions)

Only 59 forwards have a cap hit of $4m this season. There are 180 top-six forwards in the NHL right now. 184 guys had a cap hit of $1.5m or more; that includes seven with a cap hit of exactly $1.5m. 40 of those guys turn UFA this summer. Likely next season that 180 mark will be closer to 1.7 or 1.8m..but still way off of $4m.

The Wings could EASILY get a top-six forward for $4m with the number available and the fact that $4m is well above what the average second liner makes.

[Grim 5]

$4m should get you Sundin

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i would like to see the wings resign stuart if he does well for us

[2probert4 8]

Well, people are already speculating what rentals will sign where next season, so I figured why not a thread about what you feel will happen with the Wings the next few years as far as contracts and such are concerned. Projected cap numbers are in italics. My take:

2008-09 Detroit Red Wings

Pavel Datsyuk $6.7m

UFA Top-6 forward $4m

Henrik Zetterberg $2.65m

Daniel Cleary $3.00m

Tomas Holmstrom $2.25m

Kris Draper $1.583m

Valtteri Filppula $1.5m

Mikael Samuelsson $1.2m

Jiri Hudler $1.015m

Johan Franzen $942k

Kirk Maltby $883k

Tomas Kopecky $500k

Darren McCarty $550k

Aaron Downey $550k

FORWARDS $26.823m

Nicklas Lidstrom $7.45m

Brian Rafalski $6m

Niklas Kronwall $3m

Chris Chelios $1.1m

Andreas Lilja $1.1m

Brett Lebda $650k

Derek Meech $483k

DEFENSEMEN $19.783m

Chris Osgood $1.417m

Jimmy Howard $900k

GOALIES $2.317m

TOTAL $48.923m

2009-10 Detroit Red Wings

Henrik Zetterberg $7m

Pavel Datsyuk $6.7m

UFA Top-6 forward $4m

Daniel Cleary $2.5m

Tomas Holmstrom $2.25m

Kris Draper $1.583m

Valtteri Filppula $1.5m

Jiri Hudler $1.45m

Mikael Samuelsson $1.25m

Johan Franzen $1.2m

Kirk Maltby $883k

Tomas Kopecky $750k

Darren McCarty $550k

Aaron Downey $550k

FORWARDS $32.166m

Nicklas Lidstrom $7.45m

Brian Rafalski $6m

Niklas Kronwall $3m

Chris Chelios $1.1m

Andreas Lilja $1.1m

Brett Lebda $650k

Derek Meech $483k

DEFENSEMEN $19.783m

Chris Osgood $1.417m

Jimmy Howard $900k

GOALIES $5 or $6.00m

RYAN MILLER - Pierre McGwire of TSN was discussing his situation in Buffalo, they won't resign him, and said Detroit will get Ryan Miller.

TOTAL $54.266m

Lilja is included because he is expected to be resigned by Holland and would likely ink a two-year deal. These rosters also do not account for potential trades that may happen between now and then.

I made some changes to you list EV, I have to agree with McGwire on this one, Miller will come back to Michigan and be a Wing.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Honestly, I hate this roster. Nothing against you, Eva, considering you don't know what our future holds, but guys like Sammy, Kopecky, Lilja, Hudler, etc. Obviously we shouldn't sell these guys off for picks, but why not replace - namely Sammy and Lilja - with rough and tumble North Americans once their contracts are up? In my opinion, one of the reasons we've been having trouble filling up the Joe of late is because we don't have very many players fans can identify with. I love Hank as much as the next guy, but theres no doubt its harder to identify with him than it was with Shanahan, for example.

Here are some affordable options, with a couple exceptions. The majority of these guys are under 30, have great character that the fans would really grow to love, and would play a type of game that Detroit has been missing for a long time. But most importantly, most of these guys could be signed to relatively longterm contracts that would integrate them into Detroit's core, which would help give the Wings a stronger identity.

UFA Dmen

1. Mike Commodore

2. Brad Stuart

3. Jason Smith

4. Brooks Orpik

5. Aaron Ward

UFA Top 6

1. Ryan Malone

2. Brian Rolston

3. Daymond Langkow

4. Michael Ryder

5. Kristian Huselius

UFA Bottom 6

1. Sean Avery

2. Chris Gratton

3. Chris Kelly

4. Jarkko Ruutu

5. Matt Cooke

[eva unit zero 271]

Honestly, I hate this roster. Nothing against you, Eva, considering you don't know what our future holds, but guys like Sammy, Kopecky, Lilja, Hudler, etc. Obviously we shouldn't sell these guys off for picks, but why not replace - namely Sammy and Lilja - with rough and tumble North Americans once their contracts are up? In my opinion, one of the reasons we've been having trouble filling up the Joe of late is because we don't have very many players fans can identify with. I love Hank as much as the next guy, but theres no doubt its harder to identify with him than it was with Shanahan, for example.

Here are some affordable options, with a couple exceptions. The majority of these guys are under 30, have great character that the fans would really grow to love, and would play a type of game that Detroit has been missing for a long time. But most importantly, most of these guys could be signed to relatively longterm contracts that would integrate them into Detroit's core, which would help give the Wings a stronger identity.

UFA Dmen

1. Mike Commodore

2. Brad Stuart

3. Jason Smith

4. Brooks Orpik

5. Aaron Ward

UFA Top 6

1. Ryan Malone

2. Brian Rolston

3. Daymond Langkow

4. Michael Ryder

5. Kristian Huselius

UFA Bottom 6

1. Sean Avery

2. Chris Gratton

3. Chris Kelly

4. Jarkko Ruutu

5. Matt Cooke

I included Lilja and Samuelsson because I expect them to be resigned, not because I desire to resign them. Although I do think Samuelsson is a good buy at less than 2m; he provides top six caliber offense (check the numbers) and is not a defensive liability. I'd love to have one more scoring forward, but having Sammy provides us with a guy who can reliably play the second or third line without any real problems.

Stuart won't be coming back; all indications are that he is a rental. I would love for him to come back, because he's a perfect fit. But he apparently has personal ties to California that prevent him from leaving long-term.

If we could drop Lilja and sign Orpik for the same 1.1m I listed, and add Ryder or Malone as the UFA forward for $4m or less, that would be very good.

Hudler and Kopecky are keepers. Jiri has great offensive instincts and while he likely will never be a superstar, he will be a bona-fide top six goal scorer for many years. Kopecky has the talent and physical tools to be a second line power forward if he can get his offense in gear, and if he doesn't he'll still be an effective checking line forward who can play all three positions.

[egroen 384]

The Wings do not have the prospects or draft picks to make a splash at the trade deadline. This "saving cap space for the deadline" thing is for the birds. I'd like to see Holland spend up to $1 million of the cap at the beginning of next season.

$1 million still allows the signing of a depth player at the trade deadline should the need arise, but for god's sake do not repeat this year's mistake. To have permission to spend to the cap and not do so is a mistake.

[joshy207 156]

While I'm not crazy about this roster either, I think you're right, this is pretty much what it will look like. Especially if the Wings advance far into the playoffs. Anything more than a small change seems to be taboo.

[eva unit zero 271]

While I'm not crazy about this roster either, I think you're right, this is pretty much what it will look like. Especially if the Wings advance far into the playoffs. Anything more than a small change seems to be taboo.

So you are saying you expect the Wings to not change due to advancing deep into the postseason.

What then is the problem?

[eva unit zero 271]

The Wings do not have the prospects or draft picks to make a splash at the trade deadline. This "saving cap space for the deadline" thing is for the birds. I'd like to see Holland spend up to $1 million of the cap at the beginning of next season.

$1 million still allows the signing of a depth player at the trade deadline should the need arise, but for god's sake do not repeat this year's mistake. To have permission to spend to the cap and not do so is a mistake.

Ok. Since you have such an issue with how the cap was handled this year...

What UFA would you have wanted to see signed (figure 500k more than he signed for for his Detroit price) or what player who was traded at the deadline would you have traded more for?

I saw no one worth having on our roster for the price they went for in either situation.

As I said, I tried to predict what will ACTUALLY happen, not the NHL 2k8 trades I would make if I were the GM.

[awingsincebirth 0]

The Wings do not have the prospects or draft picks to make a splash at the trade deadline. This "saving cap space for the deadline" thing is for the birds. I'd like to see Holland spend up to $1 million of the cap at the beginning of next season.

$1 million still allows the signing of a depth player at the trade deadline should the need arise, but for god's sake do not repeat this year's mistake. To have permission to spend to the cap and not do so is a mistake.

I think that's a great point. Given the nature of our minor system, this is a team that should come into the season with the team it will ice in the playoffs. If it is found that any small tweaking is in order, add a depth man at the deadline.

But most importantly, let the dedicated Wings fans know if your not going to do much so they don't get up at 8:00 and watch TSN all day (where they are forced to stomach the incessant ramblings of Pierre "Flesh Covered Dildo" McGuire, John "I'm Not a Very Good GM" Ferguson, etc etc) only to hear the only, small, deal announced shortly after the 3:00 deadline. That was PURE BUSH!

[egroen 384]

Ok. Since you have such an issue with how the cap was handled this year...

What UFA would you have wanted to see signed (figure 500k more than he signed for for his Detroit price) or what player who was traded at the deadline would you have traded more for?

I saw no one worth having on our roster for the price they went for in either situation.

As I said, I tried to predict what will ACTUALLY happen, not the NHL 2k8 trades I would make if I were the GM.

Uh, I was not critisizing your projections at all there... just giving my opinion.

Anyways, I honestly feel carrying $5 million to the deadline does nothing for us. Sure, we could have afforded to sign Hossa, Fedorov and Blake at the deadline, but obviously the price in prospects and draft picks was too high for the Red Wings, who do not have a surplus of great prospects and those draft picks are close to dead last each year.

(figure 500k more than he signed for for his Detroit price)

Are you saying Detroit has to pay more to attract free agents??? Or are you confusing them with the Lions?

Hindsight is 20/20 and I could certainly go back and say I would do this and that with this and that free agent, but that is pretty pointless. I do believe a lesson could be learned from this year though:

Detroit carrying $5 million to the trade deadline is a mistake. Unless we are willing to trade away a lot of our future, it will go unused... just like it did this year.

You disagree?

Edited February 27, 2008 by egroen

[redwings56 1]

I find it hard to beleive that any the guys on here that are bashing Holland will have the same oppinion when the Red Wings win the cup this year. If they were able to go 30-7-3 to start, why can't they get back on track when Cleary gets back?

Have some confidence.

Sure they went to Conference finals last year, they should not have beaten the Sharks if it wasn't for the Hated Bobby Lang. and they should have beaten the Ducks if it wasn't for Lidstrom tipping Scott Niedermayer's shot with less than a minute left to tie the game and led to Selanne's OT winner.

They won't blow it again, this team has a winning attitude and Babcock will get the best of them this playoff's.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I dont think Sammy and Lilja are going to re-sign for lousy 50k and 100k raises. Lilja is looking at 1.5M per season, according to reports, and the market for a guy like Sammy is easily 1.5M, especially 2 seasons from now. I could easily see both of those guys testing the market, and if that were the case, I'd like to see Lilja replaced with Commodore for next season, and Samuelsson replaced with Chris Neil the following..

[SweWings 45]

Honestly, I hate this roster. Nothing against you, Eva, considering you don't know what our future holds, but guys like Sammy, Kopecky, Lilja, Hudler, etc. Obviously we shouldn't sell these guys off for picks, but why not replace - namely Sammy and Lilja - with rough and tumble North Americans once their contracts are up? In my opinion, one of the reasons we've been having trouble filling up the Joe of late is because we don't have very many players fans can identify with. I love Hank as much as the next guy, but theres no doubt its harder to identify with him than it was with Shanahan, for example.

Here are some affordable options, with a couple exceptions. The majority of these guys are under 30, have great character that the fans would really grow to love, and would play a type of game that Detroit has been missing for a long time. But most importantly, most of these guys could be signed to relatively longterm contracts that would integrate them into Detroit's core, which would help give the Wings a stronger identity.

UFA Dmen

1. Mike Commodore

2. Brad Stuart

3. Jason Smith

4. Brooks Orpik

5. Aaron Ward

UFA Top 6

1. Ryan Malone

2. Brian Rolston

3. Daymond Langkow

4. Michael Ryder

5. Kristian Huselius

UFA Bottom 6

1. Sean Avery

2. Chris Gratton

3. Chris Kelly

4. Jarkko Ruutu

5. Matt Cooke

Please, not Huselius. And I'd rather not get Ryder either. But Huselius is a definite no-no for me.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I made some changes to you list EV, I have to agree with McGwire on this one, Miller will come back to Michigan and be a Wing.

I'm with you and McGuire on this one too, but it really depends on how Howard progresses. If he plays lights out in his 20-30 starts next year, you can be sure Holland and co. will let him pass. However, I would not at all be surprised if Miller's agent contacted Detroit. I remember reading reports a couple years back that it was Miller's dream to play for the Red Wings. And if thats the case, I wouldn't expect Miller to demand a through the roof salary.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Please, not Huselius. And I'd rather not get Ryder either. But Huselius is a definite no-no for me.

Ryder would be cheap after the season his having, and he has started to pick it up. He could still end up with 20 goals after his horrendous start. Hes a goal scorer first, and thats what Detroit needs.

As for Huselius, I'm not a huge fan of him either, but I put him on the list because I could DEFINITELY see Wings management having interest in him. A skillful, crafty Swede with decent defensive awareness? Might as well order the jersey for him already..

[dallas27 7]

If the Wings do indeed get Bruunstrom, where does he fit in salary wise?

[rick zombo 3,739]

I'm with you and McGuire on this one too, but it really depends on how Howard progresses. If he plays lights out in his 20-30 starts next year, you can be sure Holland and co. will let him pass. However, I would not at all be surprised if Miller's agent contacted Detroit. I remember reading reports a couple years back that it was Miller's dream to play for the Red Wings. And if thats the case, I wouldn't expect Miller to demand a through the roof salary.

Well:

1.) Miller would have to come cheap. Otherwise, he won't fit under the cap.

2.) My vote would be for a Miller-Howard tandem. Deal Osgood. As much as I love Chris, Jimmy would be a cheaper back-up, with more future in front of him.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Anyways, I honestly feel carrying $5 million to the deadline does nothing for us. Sure, we could have afforded to sign Hossa, Fedorov and Blake at the deadline, but obviously the price in prospects and draft picks was too high for the Red Wings, who do not have a surplus of great prospects and those draft picks are close to dead last each year.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I could certainly go back and say I would do this and that with this and that free agent, but that is pretty pointless. I do believe a lesson could be learned from this year though:

Detroit carrying $5 million to the trade deadline is a mistake. Unless we are willing to trade away a lot of our future, it will go unused... just like it did this year.

You disagree?

I agree with you, but under certain circumstances only. Detroit is in a special situation, up until July 1st, 2008, as I think the Red Wings will already have a deal in place for Zetterberg at the first moment hes eligible to re-sign. At that point, the majority of our cornerstones will either

1) be locked up for a good 3 more years (Zetterberg, Rafalski, Datsyuk, Kronwall, and possibly Cleary)

or

2) their paychecks are only going to be decreasing over the next few years from this point forward (Draper, Maltby, Lidstrom, and possibly Homer)

Therefore, this idea of "carrying $5 million to the trade deadline" was an exception to the rule, not a new trend in Red Wings economics, as there were a couple things to consider at last years deadline:

1. Few players were willing to sign one year contracts, which were the only things Holland was willing to give out due to reasons mentioned above unless we were a) replacing a key player a la Rafalski for Schneider or b) that player was going to come on the cheap

2. The players that Detroit really needed to add - a #3/4 Dman and a 2nd line forward - were either in the minority, or overpaid. Really the only two players we could've signed that even now make sense looking back are Brad Stuart - who wanted to sign in California, pushing Detriot out of contention for his services and Mike Comrie - whom they probably chose not to sign because he would be taking valuable development minutes away from Flip, as they likely wouldve played that same 2nd line center position, and because hes had some glaring attitude issues in the past and I'm guessing probably wasn't a player Babcock was too high on adding to the squad.

That's why, in my opinion, we won't be seeing this 5M in cap space at the deadline next year. Once July 2nd, 2008 rolls around, I expect Filppula, Cleary, and Zetterberg to be locked up, and possibly Lilja as well. If we have open spots due to Cleary and Lilja wanting to test the market on July 1st, then we'll likely see Detroit being big players, particularly for UFAs that they can sign for a good 3-5 years.