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[Rice 42]

Thats so spot on its scary....my prediction would be exactly the same as yours, even down to the quotes. Very well done!

I'm assuming you also picked the Wings to lose to Calgary last year due to a lack of "team toughness". If not Calgary, then definitely San Jose.

How'd that work out?

Speaking of getting upset over marginal signings, I remember you berating Holland when he didn't sign Brad Winchester. The same Brad Winchester that has played 32 games with Dallas this year for an impressive two assists.

That guy would've brought tons to the table in terms of secondary scoring.

Edited February 29, 2008 by ARice89

[Rice 42]

...I am sticking to my guns. I will not support or cheer for this team until Holland is gone. I will continue to read on here and post once in a while, but as a card carrying Wings fan, I'm done. The NHL is a Nancy sport anymore anyway. If Holland is there for another 20 years oh well, then I guess I just fade away as a fan. Have fun cheering for them, I will be back tomorrow to laugh hysterically when they lose again. They lost me when someone put their personal feelings ahead of the team when trying to get Fedorov. Fedorov is still better than everyone on our team not named Zetterberg/Datsyuk or Lidstrom. But that certain someone would go and cry to mom if Holland would've traded for him, so as soon as the General Managment Group started spelling the word team with an I, I decided to turn the card in. No I am not jumping on another team's bandwagon and I look forward to the Wings losing in round one so I can laugh my ass off and listen to Holland say we just didn't have enough secondary scoring (again.)

Good. See you later.

I'm sure you love the way Philadelphia is built. How are they doing lately? Have fun watching them.

Edited February 29, 2008 by ARice89

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Yeah, because the likes of Hall and Fedorov would've instantly won them the Stanley Cup this year.

The playoffs haven't even started yet and you're already calling a loss.

This is the same team as last year with a better defense and much less dead weight (Lang, Bertuzzi, Calder) in the forward corps.

If the Wings go out early, ***** all you want. The fact of the matter is neither of us have a clue as to what's going to happen in the post-season yet. It's a crapshoot.

...well, I am not gonna ***** when they lose I am gonna laugh and listen to you guys ***** when Holland says we need a big defensman and secondary scoring, only to wait all summer for our aging UFA's and lose out on the quality UFA"s. But wait, we got McCarty and "he has playoff experince." -Ken Holland. I HOPE the Wings lose in the first round. I hope they get swept, I hope they lose all their games 1-0. Something tells me Fedorov could've helped in the secondary scoring department. He could have been here for a low to mid level prospect, BUT someone was being a crybaby and said they were gonna tell mom of Holland got Fedorov, so Holland passed on the good of the team for the feelings on an individual. I don't care if that individual was Babcock or Yzerman or whoever, there is no way they should put their personal feelings ahead of the team. Holland is an idiot for letting that happen...

For the record, I haven't mentioned Adam Hall since last summer. But I'd rather have him than Sammy or Hudler if none of them are gonna score at least Hall would cracks some heads against the boards once in a while...

...then again it'd be nice to make it to the SCF's and play Washington and watch Fedorov and Ovechkin make our team look like a bunch of peewee's. Series clinching goal, Fedorov in OT, that would be the ultimate crow for the Managment team of the Detroit Red Wings. Eat it Holland, suck on it...

[LeftWinger 5,152]

double post,sorry

Edited February 29, 2008 by LeftWinger

[Rice 42]

...well, I am not gonna ***** when they lose I am gonna laugh and listen to you guys ***** when Holland says we need a big defensman and secondary scoring, only to wait all summer for our aging UFA's and lose out on the quality UFA"s. But wait, we got McCarty and "he has playoff experince." -Ken Holland. I HOPE the Wings lose in the first round. I hope they get swept, I hope they lose all their games 1-0. Something tells me Fedorov could've helped in the secondary scoring department. He could have been here for a low to mid level prospect, BUT someone was being a crybaby and said they were gonna tell mom of Holland got Fedorov, so Holland passed on the good of the team for the feelings on an individual. I don't care if that individual was Babcock or Yzerman or whoever, there is no way they should put their personal feelings ahead of the team. Holland is an idiot for letting that happen...

For the record, I haven't mentioned Adam Hall since last summer. But I'd rather have him than Sammy or Hudler if none of them are gonna score at least Hall would cracks some heads against the boards once in a while...

...then again it'd be nice to make it to the SCF's and play Washington and watch Fedorov and Ovechkin make our team look like a bunch of peewee's. Series clinching goal, Fedorov in OT, that would be the ultimate crow for the Managment team of the Detroit Red Wings. Eat it Holland, suck on it...

You know, if Fedorov is just so valuable, why is it that all it took to get him was a "low to mid level prospect"?

[awingsincebirth 0]

...I am sticking to my guns. I will not support or cheer for this team until Holland is gone. I will continue to read on here and post once in a while, but as a card carrying Wings fan, I'm done. The NHL is a Nancy sport anymore anyway. If Holland is there for another 20 years oh well, then I guess I just fade away as a fan. Have fun cheering for them, I will be back tomorrow to laugh hysterically when they lose again. They lost me when someone put their personal feelings ahead of the team when trying to get Fedorov. Fedorov is still better than everyone on our team not named Zetterberg/Datsyuk or Lidstrom. But that certain someone would go and cry to mom if Holland would've traded for him, so as soon as the General Managment Group started spelling the word team with an I, I decided to turn the card in. No I am not jumping on another team's bandwagon and I look forward to the Wings losing in round one so I can laugh my ass off and listen to Holland say we just didn't have enough secondary scoring (again.)

Very nice. So you take the odds: 30 teams in the league, 16 in the playoffs, probably still like 22 teams with a genuine shot at the playoffs. As far as solid contenders go, 4 or 5 in the West, a few in the East. Okay. All in all, the chances of any particular team to win the Cup are pretty slim.

So, as any good fan (of ANY professional sports fan should do), you assume that your team is NOT going to win, because that's what the odds suggest. So, they make it out of the first round, you say "O well, uh, they definitely won't make it out of the next round." THen they make it out of that round, "O, uh, well they definitely definitely won't make it out of the conference finals." And so on and so forth. And if somewhere along the way they do indeed get knocked out, you OBVIOUSLY have to come back to a web site full of dedicated Wings fans to be a total Homer about it because you are clearly some sort of new age hockey prophet. 1 of 30 teams win the Cup ever year. I could be wrong, but I think that means that 29 teams don't win it every year. To think that you have some sort of bragging/dickface rights because you boldly predicted ONE of the 29 teams that wouldn't win it is pretty homo to me. To each his own, I guess.

Good to know I'll have those kinds of posts to read after every period/game/playoff series/Stanley Cup that the Wings lose until Kingdome Come.

[therock48880 14]

I don't think they should pursue any free agents and save the cap space for the trade deadline. Oh wait......

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I'm assuming you also picked the Wings to lose to Calgary last year due to a lack of "team toughness". If not Calgary, then definitely San Jose.

How'd that work out?

Speaking of getting upset over marginal signings, I remember you berating Holland when he didn't sign Brad Winchester. The same Brad Winchester that has played 32 games with Dallas this year for an impressive two assists.

That guy would've brought tons to the table in terms of secondary scoring.

Where in his post i quoted does it even say ANYTHING about the Wings losing early??? This is all about going through the same motions and hearing the same thing every offseason when we dont do anything. But since you brought it up for no reason whatsoever, yep, i picked those teams. I also picked Anaheim to win the Cup...I'd say that worked out. Thanks.

The Winchester thing has to do with taking chances with players who can be tough and do have some ability to work with. You will never get those Chris Neil types unless you try to develop them yourself. You have no idea what Winchester would do if he were here.

[kylee 727]

mark mowers is gonna be a free agent

goooodbye secondary scoring problems.

Edited February 29, 2008 by kylee

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Very nice. So you take the odds: 30 teams in the league, 16 in the playoffs, probably still like 22 teams with a genuine shot at the playoffs. As far as solid contenders go, 4 or 5 in the West, a few in the East. Okay. All in all, the chances of any particular team to win the Cup are pretty slim.

So, as any good fan (of ANY professional sports fan should do), you assume that your team is NOT going to win, because that's what the odds suggest. So, they make it out of the first round, you say "O well, uh, they definitely won't make it out of the next round." THen they make it out of that round, "O, uh, well they definitely definitely won't make it out of the conference finals." And so on and so forth. And if somewhere along the way they do indeed get knocked out, you OBVIOUSLY have to come back to a web site full of dedicated Wings fans to be a total Homer about it because you are clearly some sort of new age hockey prophet. 1 of 30 teams win the Cup ever year. I could be wrong, but I think that means that 29 teams don't win it every year. To think that you have some sort of bragging/dickface rights because you boldly predicted ONE of the 29 teams that wouldn't win it is pretty homo to me. To each his own, I guess.

Good to know I'll have those kinds of posts to read after every period/game/playoff series/Stanley Cup that the Wings lose until Kingdome Come.

...no, I am not going with the odds. But, the Wings odds would have been better if they would have addressed the lack of secondary scoring. McCarty just ain't gonna cut it. But Holland put someone's personal feelings ahead of the good of the team, so, in turn, dooming the Red Wings to another Cup-less summer due to that fact. It didn't have to be Fedorov, it could have been someone else, BUT Fedorov would have cost the least and in turn given us the most secondary scoring of players we could have afforded to pick up.

...no, you won't have to read posts, once they lose, you guys will already feel like what I would have written anyhow. And when Holland comes out and says "We lacked secondary scoring." I won't need to say anything, because they could have had that addressed for the price of a prospect that woud probably never crack the Detroit lineup anyhow...

...and ARice, no Fedorov is not that valuable in the NHL, but if all he would have cost was a low prospect, he would have added much needed scoring help from someone other the ZDH. And if he didn't work out then what would we have lost? A center or winger who probably would never make our lineup anyway. The pros outweighed the cons, but someones PERSONAL FEELINGS outweighed the good of the team in this case. If and when this comes back to haunt Detroit, I don't want to hear the same rhetoric from Holland as we have been hearing since Konstantinov got hurt, because I am doen buying it. Holland is a fool to put a personal vendetta over the good of the team. Watch as Cleary and McCarty disappear and forget to show-up in the playoffs, that'll be our downfall. Oh and we can always use the excuse that Lidstrom wasn't 100% and that is why we lost...

...For your's and other Wings fans sake I hope am wrong anf they go on to win the Cup. You can all celebrate and cheer and enjoy it. I for one, am so upset with Hollands garbage, I hope they never win another Cup in 50 years or more. And not because he didn't get Fedorov or Hall, because, much like our own US government, how may lies and deceit do you have to listen to until you've had enough? No more for me...

[Rice 42]

Where in his post i quoted does it even say ANYTHING about the Wings losing early??? This is all about going through the same motions and hearing the same thing every offseason when we dont do anything. But since you brought it up for no reason whatsoever, yep, i picked those teams. I also picked Anaheim to win the Cup...I'd say that worked out. Thanks.

The Winchester thing has to do with taking chances with players who can be tough and do have some ability to work with. You will never get those Chris Neil types unless you try to develop them yourself. You have no idea what Winchester would do if he were here.

I brought it up because I was positive that you predicted the Wings to lose early and they didn't. Had they had a healthy defense, they likely would've beaten the Ducks. Holland put that roster together and you predicted that they would lose. So, I assume that you think they'll lose early again since they have a similar makeup as last year (e.g. not "gritty" as your avatar suggests). Am I wrong in this assumption? If I am, I'll eat my crow...but that's why I brought up your playoff predictions from last year.

[BeeRYCE 2]

I don't think a guy like Malone is going anywhere.

He's from Pittsburgh, so expect a reasonably low, fair contract. 2.5M, perhaps? They can keep him committed with ease. Also, with them letting go a whole 4 potential depth assets, guys like Malone (and Staal) need to be kept. I'd love Malone, but I can't picture him leaving Pittsburgh soon.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

I don't think a guy like Malone is going anywhere.

He's from Pittsburgh, so expect a reasonably low, fair contract. 2.5M, perhaps? They can keep him committed with ease. Also, with them letting go a whole 4 potential depth assets, guys like Malone (and Staal) need to be kept. I'd love Malone, but I can't picture him leaving Pittsburgh soon.

...besides your valid points, add to that, if he fills any of our needs, he will not be signed by Holland, because that is what Holland does, bypassess any and all players that fill our needs in order to save money for washed-up goaltenders and soft players like the majority of our team is made up of. Our team makes for a great regular season team, I look forward to many more Presidents Trophies and Norris Trophies and Selke's and possibly a Hart or two. But forget about Stanley...

[SnipeShow 0]

oops... double post sorry, my computer is having a melt down almost as big as leftwinger's!

Edited February 29, 2008 by SnipeShow

[SnipeShow 0]

...no, I am not going with the odds. But, the Wings odds would have been better if they would have addressed the lack of secondary scoring. McCarty just ain't gonna cut it. But Holland put someone's personal feelings ahead of the good of the team, so, in turn, dooming the Red Wings to another Cup-less summer due to that fact. It didn't have to be Fedorov, it could have been someone else, BUT Fedorov would have cost the least and in turn given us the most secondary scoring of players we could have afforded to pick up.

...no, you won't have to read posts, once they lose, you guys will already feel like what I would have written anyhow. And when Holland comes out and says "We lacked secondary scoring." I won't need to say anything, because they could have had that addressed for the price of a prospect that woud probably never crack the Detroit lineup anyhow...

...and ARice, no Fedorov is not that valuable in the NHL, but if all he would have cost was a low prospect, he would have added much needed scoring help from someone other the ZDH. And if he didn't work out then what would we have lost? A center or winger who probably would never make our lineup anyway. The pros outweighed the cons, but someones PERSONAL FEELINGS outweighed the good of the team in this case. If and when this comes back to haunt Detroit, I don't want to hear the same rhetoric from Holland as we have been hearing since Konstantinov got hurt, because I am doen buying it. Holland is a fool to put a personal vendetta over the good of the team. Watch as Cleary and McCarty disappear and forget to show-up in the playoffs, that'll be our downfall. Oh and we can always use the excuse that Lidstrom wasn't 100% and that is why we lost...

...For your's and other Wings fans sake I hope am wrong anf they go on to win the Cup. You can all celebrate and cheer and enjoy it. I for one, am so upset with Hollands garbage, I hope they never win another Cup in 50 years or more. And not because he didn't get Fedorov or Hall, because, much like our own US government, how may lies and deceit do you have to listen to until you've had enough? No more for me...

God you are miserable, you sound like a Leafs fan. Do us all a favor and turn your frown upside down, you are being a party pooper! But in all seriousness you know how spoiled you sound right now? OMG KENNY WE DIDNT GET ____ IN FREE AGENCY!! WAH WAH.

its silly. Kenny didnt need to sign anyone, we are 1st in the NHL for a reason, as ARice said, we cut dead weight, our young guys have more experience, we are grittier this year, so hold on tight because it's going to be a good one.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

...no, I am not going with the odds. But, the Wings odds would have been better if they would have addressed the lack of secondary scoring. McCarty just ain't gonna cut it. But Holland put someone's personal feelings ahead of the good of the team, so, in turn, dooming the Red Wings to another Cup-less summer due to that fact. It didn't have to be Fedorov, it could have been someone else, BUT Fedorov would have cost the least and in turn given us the most secondary scoring of players we could have afforded to pick up.

...no, you won't have to read posts, once they lose, you guys will already feel like what I would have written anyhow. And when Holland comes out and says "We lacked secondary scoring." I won't need to say anything, because they could have had that addressed for the price of a prospect that woud probably never crack the Detroit lineup anyhow...

...and ARice, no Fedorov is not that valuable in the NHL, but if all he would have cost was a low prospect, he would have added much needed scoring help from someone other the ZDH. And if he didn't work out then what would we have lost? A center or winger who probably would never make our lineup anyway. The pros outweighed the cons, but someones PERSONAL FEELINGS outweighed the good of the team in this case. If and when this comes back to haunt Detroit, I don't want to hear the same rhetoric from Holland as we have been hearing since Konstantinov got hurt, because I am doen buying it. Holland is a fool to put a personal vendetta over the good of the team. Watch as Cleary and McCarty disappear and forget to show-up in the playoffs, that'll be our downfall. Oh and we can always use the excuse that Lidstrom wasn't 100% and that is why we lost...

...For your's and other Wings fans sake I hope am wrong anf they go on to win the Cup. You can all celebrate and cheer and enjoy it. I for one, am so upset with Hollands garbage, I hope they never win another Cup in 50 years or more. And not because he didn't get Fedorov or Hall, because, much like our own US government, how may lies and deceit do you have to listen to until you've had enough? No more for me...

Yeah, because those guys have always been bad players in the playoffs. I dont care if you believe we arent gonna win, and I agree that Holland should've made a move at forward, but dont tell me our 2 grittiest players are gonna disappear in the playoffs.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I brought it up because I was positive that you predicted the Wings to lose early and they didn't. Had they had a healthy defense, they likely would've beaten the Ducks. Holland put that roster together and you predicted that they would lose. So, I assume that you think they'll lose early again since they have a similar makeup as last year (e.g. not "gritty" as your avatar suggests). Am I wrong in this assumption? If I am, I'll eat my crow...but that's why I brought up your playoff predictions from last year.

I predicted they would lose early, yes. Didnt think they'd beat Calgary, and definitely didnt think SJ. However one playoff year isnt going to make me completely change my tune. Do i believe they're gritty enough and big enough, as well as Canadian enough to get that far again? No. Gonna have to show it again and prove it wasnt a fluke if im to believe in what Holland has going on. I dont think its automatic they lose in the first round though like some are already proclaiming..

But at the same time, if the team were to flop in the first round, will YOU come out and say that Holland is f'ing up? It works both ways.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Yeah, because those guys have always been bad players in the playoffs. I dont care if you believe we arent gonna win, and I agree that Holland should've made a move at forward, but dont tell me our 2 grittiest players are gonna disappear in the playoffs.

...well, that's not saying much for our teams grit if you are relying on Cleary and a guy who hasn't played for nearly 2 years in the NHL as our grittiest players. I think that we are in huge trouble if Cleary is our grittiest player, so when he comes back he is gonna solve our problems with grit and scoring? Is he the power forward we needed the Brendan Shanahan type? Dan Cleary and power forward, thats an oxymoron... but hey, good luck to McCarty at least he'll put butts in the seats at JLA...

[Rice 42]

I predicted they would lose early, yes. Didnt think they'd beat Calgary, and definitely didnt think SJ. However one playoff year isnt going to make me completely change my tune. Do i believe they're gritty enough and big enough, as well as Canadian enough to get that far again? No. Gonna have to show it again and prove it wasnt a fluke if im to believe in what Holland has going on. I dont think its automatic they lose in the first round though like some are already proclaiming..

But at the same time, if the team were to flop in the first round, will YOU come out and say that Holland is f'ing up? It works both ways.

Oh, believe me, I'm not the biggest Holland fan around. I think he's an excellent GM, but I can definitely see where people are coming from with their complaints about him (sometimes, at least). I defend him here because it seems like a ton of people think that they could do a better job.

If the Wings do go out in the first round, yes. I will criticize Holland -- depending on how they go out, of course.

[Grittzkey 1]

Chris Gratton, Jarkko Ruutu, Adam Hall, Ryan Malone, Craig Weller, Jason Smith , Chris Kelly, Marek Malik , Sean Avery, Arron Asham, Brian Rolston, Brad Winchester, Owen Nolan, Jim Vandermeer, Eric Boulton, Steve McCarthy, Dough Weight..

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Chris Gratton, Jarkko Ruutu, Adam Hall, Ryan Malone, Craig Weller, Jason Smith , Chris Kelly, Marek Malik , Sean Avery, Arron Asham, Brian Rolston, Brad Winchester, Owen Nolan, Jim Vandermeer, Eric Boulton, Steve McCarthy, Dough Weight..

...hey Arice, make a note, I am not the first one to mention Hall for this upcoming UFA season...

[juice71285 2]

Man I should have known that this thread was going to turn into another let's lynch Holland thread. I just wanted to see what was out there on the market come the offseason since there wasn't much in the trade market. Looking at glance over the free agents there really isn't much out there either.

With this new cap era, the horizon of the NHL has completely changed. No longer can a team like Detroit do what they did in the past (trade away the future for instant success year in and year out), unless you want another possible dead wings era to begin. The Wings can't just give up the farm to satisfy you fairweather fans for instant gratification. I am not surprised that Detroit didn't pick anything up in the way of a forward this year. There wasn't much on the market and what was out there was demanding a team's possibly giving up their future, ie Penguins. I don't think Holland imagined so many teams were not just possibly looking at a playoff spot this year, but have a realistic chance at getting in. There were way more buyers this year then sellers, which means the supplies didn't meet the demands at the trade deadline. Fedorov went to Washington probably because Columbus didn't want to trade within the division. While Columbus in a way has given up on the season, they didn't give up on it completely. They still have to play us another 4 times this seaon, which means they didn't want an ex-teammate possibly costing thema potential (although slim now) chance at the playoffs. Hossa went to the Penguins for an arm and a leg and then some, and there is also the possibility that he won't even re-sign with them after the season is over. Richards contract was too heavy to take in, especially if we want to lock Zetterberg and Cleary up for a long while. Don't be surprised if Detroit makes only one or two possible small depth signings this summer, especially if we re-sign Cleary, extend on Zetterberg, and sign this Brunnstrom kid (his contract won't be an issue so much as the bonuses will be).