Why is Samuelsson still on the PP point?

[58Miles2Joe 12]

That is it, you will keep that opinion no matter what he does. If he pulls a Datsyukian Deke to win the Stanley Cup in game 4 of the Finals in OT he would not get praise from you. You would find something negative to say about how he managed to put the puck in the net.

What about his goal when Robidas put it in his own net? You have to give Sammy credit for good hustle and awareness! right? Sure it wouldn't have went in without Robidas, but maybe Franzen or Hank get a stick on it while lying in the crease. It was a great effort from him and he has been doing his job to expectations for the last 3 weeks. Good for him. Anyway, what do you expect him to do? What does he have to do to get you to acknowledge him positively?

I started a thread a few days back pointing out that Sammy had been playing better, so does that mean I'm allowed to say he's suckin' it up again?

I'm not biased against him; half the time my thought goes like this: "godammit! who was that? Oh, Sammuelson, no wonder." So you see, I've made the call before I know its him.

All I can figure is Babs' is so incredibly defense-first minded that he totally focused on the fact that he usually gets back...although i see him reaching alot, too...i dunno, i don't get it.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I started a thread a few days back pointing out that Sammy had been playing better, so does that mean I'm allowed to say he's suckin' it up again?

I'm not biased against him; half the time my thought goes like this: "godammit! who was that? Oh, Sammuelson, no wonder." So you see, I've made the call before I know its him.

All I can figure is Babs' is so incredibly defense-first minded that he totally focused on the fact that he usually gets back...although i see him reaching alot, too...i dunno, i don't get it.

Genius avatar.

[Copenhagen848 58]

That is it, you will keep that opinion no matter what he does. If he pulls a Datsyukian Deke to win the Stanley Cup in game 4 of the Finals in OT he would not get praise from you. You would find something negative to say about how he managed to put the puck in the net.

What about his goal when Robidas put it in his own net? You have to give Sammy credit for good hustle and awareness! right? Sure it wouldn't have went in without Robidas, but maybe Franzen or Hank get a stick on it while lying in the crease. It was a great effort from him and he has been doing his job to expectations for the last 3 weeks. Good for him. Anyway, what do you expect him to do? What does he have to do to get you to acknowledge him positively?

Just because someone makes a good effort and gets a lucky goal every now and then it doesn't make him a good hockey player. Like I said before, I don't like Hasek at all, but I praise him when plays a good game. Sammy has rare flicks of talent, however in order for me to consider him a good hockey player he certainly needs to do it much more often than he does.

As another member just mentioned, I too can always tell when he is on the ice because he is constantly effing things up or loosing the puck. His shots are absolutely horrible and result in nothing more than turning over the puck 99% of the time. Of course, there is the rare occasion when he scores or gets a point, but he'll have to produce a TON more and play a TON better than he does in order for me to praise him.

Yes he has more points than a lot of players on the team, however with the amount of ice time he gets, PP time, and shots he takes, he should have MANY more points than he already does.

I believe Sammy's shot numbers are directly related to his skill level. The majority of the time when he has the puck he can't do anything else with it besides shoot it, thus his horrible shot quality. If he can't shoot it, he'll try a move or something and just loose the puck.

Sammy would definitely get an "A" for effort, I'm not arguing that, he just doesn't have the talent to back up the amount of ice time he receives.

[Deke 0]

My HOPE is that it's a genius move by Babcock. As the Wings enter the playoffs, their opponents will be studying lots of tape on what they do on the power play. Hopefully Babcock is putting Sammy in the live game while practicing a whole different powerplay.

Somehow I doubt the above is true, I really hope Sammy isn't quarterbacking the powerplay when it counts.

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

I absolutely can't stand Samuelsson period, not just on the power play. I know he hustles and I know he has a decent shot. But point is, more times than not I find myself just shaking my head at an idiotic play he just did. I.E. wristering it at the goalies chest pad. I am getting sick of hearing Ken and Mickey say "A samuelsson shot blocked", while on the power play. I just don't know, maybe I am missing something here, I don't get how he gets as much ice time as he does.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Wings_Rule_1010

[Deke 0]

I absolutely can't stand Samuelsson period, not just on the power play. I know he hustles and I know he has a decent shot. But point is, more times than not I find myself just shaking my head at an idiotic play he just did. I.E. wristering it at the goalies chest pad. I am getting sick of hearing Ken and Mickey say "A samuelsson shot blocked", while on the power play. I just don't know, maybe I am missing something here, I don't get how he gets as much ice time as he does.

He doesn't hustle at all. When he goes in on a player who has the puck he always stops short and just reaches in with his stick. He doesn't actually make an effort to poke check it, just give the appearance of it. And while he's outstretched, the player moves away much faster as sammy doesn't have the balance to get back in his stride. He's usually the last forward back to the defensive zone. Hustle? I've seen coaches with no skates on hustle on the ice better than sammy.

Decent shot? Have you seen his shot percentage? What universe are you watching the red wings play in?

[Copenhagen848 58]

I am getting sick of hearing Ken and Mickey say "A samuelsson shot blocked", while on the power play.

I can definitely hear a bit of sarcasm and/or disgust in Ken's voice when he says it too....I think they are sick of it as much as the rest of us, lol.

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

He doesn't hustle at all. When he goes in on a player who has the puck he always stops short and just reaches in with his stick. He doesn't actually make an effort to poke check it, just give the appearance of it. And while he's outstretched, the player moves away much faster as sammy doesn't have the balance to get back in his stride. He's usually the last forward back to the defensive zone. Hustle? I've seen coaches with no skates on hustle on the ice better than sammy.

Decent shot? Have you seen his shot percentage? What universe are you watching the red wings play in?

Yes, he does have a "decent" shot. However, he wastes it 99.9% shooting it at goalie.

BTW, really nice thing at the end. Everyone has their opinion.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Wings_Rule_1010

[wingnut40 176]

I think you guys need to stop with the "Red Wings lose so it must be either Sammy, Lilja, or Dom's falut" thing. Babs knows how to take a team deep into the playoffs. Sammy's not going to single handedly get us out in the 1st round, like so may of you predict. Because believe it or not, he's not the only one on the team. Babs's got him on the PP for a reason. He's one of the main reasons we always out shoot the other teams.

If I recall correctly a certain "sucky" player scored the only 2 goals in a series winning shut out.

[58Miles2Joe 12]

My HOPE is that it's a genius move by Babcock. As the Wings enter the playoffs, their opponents will be studying lots of tape on what they do on the power play. Hopefully Babcock is putting Sammy in the live game while practicing a whole different powerplay.

Somehow I doubt the above is true, I really hope Sammy isn't quarterbacking the powerplay when it counts.

YES! you've given me hope, that's gotta be it

/blind delusional optimism

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

I try to be as objective as possible about players. Lilja is nowhere near as bad as many make him out to be, and I don't understand why people have a problem with Hasek. However, it is really hard to find positive things about Sammy. When I watch him out there, more often than not, I get frustrated. I think Sammy does have a decent shot in the sense that it is pretty hard; however, his accuracy, or lack thereof, is a major problem, a problem which totally cancels out the speed of the shot. Whenever Sammy has the puck, it seems one of two things will happen (at least this is what I have noticed): He will either make a really good move to get around someone or get into a shooting position and then totally mess up the shot, or he will take a shot at a ridiculous time when he should try to make a move, pass, etc. As others have mentioned, he just doesn't seem to have the hockey sense that many other players have. I do think he has more skill than others give him credit for. As I said above, I think he has a relatively hard shot, and I've seen him make some nice moves, moves that do require some skill. The problem is putting it all together at appropriate times. This he seems to have a great deal of difficulty doing, and that just comes down to knowing the game well. The best analogy I can come up with for Sammy is that a decent amount of the pieces of the puzzle are there, enough so that you could put the puzzle together and make it look pretty complete, but he has no clue how to put it together.

As for Sammy on the PP, it is annoying. Hopefully Babcock figures something else out, or Sammy suddenly improves just in time for the playoffs and makes us all eat our words. I would love for that to happen, but don't anticipate it.

[Mors 201]

Jason Williams was traded cause he was terrible for us. And Chicago doesnt have the personnel that we do. Samuelsson on the point was tolerable up to the trade deadline. Now we have Brad Stuart who is patently better than Sammy at that role. Its now become inexcusable to have Sammy on the point over Stuart.

I think this pretty much says it all.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Jason Williams was traded cause he was terrible for us. And Chicago doesnt have the personnel that we do. Samuelsson on the point was tolerable up to the trade deadline. Now we have Brad Stuart who is patently better than Sammy at that role. Its now become inexcusable to have Sammy on the point over Stuart.

Fair enough as I'm not really familiar with Chicago's personnel in-depth. My only other reasoning why he is still on the point is Babcock likes having a right-handed shot out there most times, much like Williams last year.

[up2here 41]

I think this has an impact on whether Stuart re-signs here as well. I'm sure he's going to want to be on a team that uses him in power play situations.

[Opie 308]

When was the last time Sammy had a turnover on the pp Point that led to a SH goal?

When was the last time Sammy cost the wings a game with a mistake?

To be fair:

When was the last time Sammy won a game for the wings?

*I am not sure, but he isn't costing the wings games. All of your bitching and moaning about one player who isn't as good as the rest of the team (in your eyes) is pointless. Every team has a worst player, you think it is Sammy, I disagree.

Right now he is 7th on the team in points, 5th on the team in assists, 9th in goals.

So by doing basic elementary level math we can see that not only is he not statistically the worst player on the team technically more than half the team is worse than him.

Now the only fair comparison we can do is stats wise. Your eyes, my eyes all see different things when we watch the games. You have different expectations of a player and I do.

But you arguments that he sucks, have no factual basis, now I know you are going to come back with do you watch the games? It is like saying to some one who disagrees with the war, "You are not a Patriot" it is said to stop the conversation not to back anything you are saying up.

Is he my favorite player, hell no, is he the best, hell no, is he the worst, hell no.

But see the way I look at things is like this, the team is in 1st in the NHL and have been there almost wire to wire, they are 47-20 and have already locked up a playoff spot and for all intents and purposes have locked up the division.

NO TEAM WILL GO UNDEFEATED, so chill out, the guy has a role that is dictated by his coach, a guy who knows a whole hell of a lot more about hockey than any of us yahoos do, otherwise we would be in his spot behind a bench some where.

I agree Stuart should be on the pp point, but maybe just maybe for some reason he just isn't clicking with the 2nd unit, OR maybe, just maybe Babs, you know the head coach, the guy in charge, wants a right handed shot on his pp, and seeing as this team has all of 6 Right handers that puts a limit on what he can do.

In case you want to put one of those guys back there here is your list to choose from:

Sammy

Cheli

Ralf *On PP 1

Mac

Downey

Maltby

I am not saying better options for what I would do don't exist but I am not the coach.

This team is 47-20-6, Babs has them ready to go, he just recently got them over a long losing streak.

Youngguns,

Seeing as you know it to be unexcusable to have Sammy back their and Babs has the team at 47-20-6 that must mean you could have coached them to at least 50-55 wins, right?

So which team are you coaching next year, because I know which one Babs will and you won't be coaching and that would be the Red Wings.

Now before you go with the this is a discussion board, am I supposed to be a red wing slappy blah blah blah crap that is another statement intended to end the conversation not back up your point. And you are calling his moves inexcusable, yet I believe he has taken more teams deeper into the NHL playoffs than you have.

So the only real argument I need, is BABS is the coach of the team. See how I left another opening for you, so that you could say "So we as fans have to follow what he does like sheep?" or something to that affect, well yeah when he has had the team in 1st from wire to wire.

This is like people bitching about not getting Hossa, personnel moves are left up to the team, if you want to critique them or say better options are out there, but don't state it like you could do better or that you know for a fact what a 47-20-6 coach doing to be wrong.

HELL SAMMY IS STILL A BETTER HOCKEY PLAYER THAN THE FOLLOWING LIST:

Downey,

Kopecky,

D-mac (could turn out to be better, but hasn't yet)

Drake,

Maltby,

To name a few.

[redwings56 1]

When was the last time Sammy had a turnover on the pp Point that led to a SH goal?

When was the last time Sammy cost the wings a game with a mistake?

This is like people bitching about not getting Hossa, personnel moves are left up to the team, if you want to critique them or say better options are out there, but don't state it like you could do better or that you know for a fact what a 47-20-6 coach doing to be wrong.

HELL SAMMY IS STILL A BETTER HOCKEY PLAYER THAN THE FOLLOWING LIST:

Downey,

Kopecky,

D-mac (could turn out to be better, but hasn't yet)

Drake,

Maltby,

To name a few.

I have been waiting for you Opie, Here I am trying to defend Sammy's good play of late and I was the only one. I know you can attest to the fact that I was BASHING him earlier this year. Remember the 'Samuelsson does not fit in' Thread? Got more than 130 replies and lasted a good couple weeks as a top topic, well these threads are returning but without good reasoning. Although this one is VALID because he does not deserve to be on the PP, although top 6 ice time is valid with Clears and Homer out.

Sammy used to hold on to the puck ALL THE TIME too long, now he occasionally screws up the same as any other player! the Mule turns it over, Z, Pavs, Homer turn it over!!! come on people for Sammy to be what you all expect from him is illogical. If he keeps playing as well as he is now, then that is perfect for this team. Hopefully he and Hudler play with Drapes on the third line when Homer and Cleary come back.

Z,Pavs,Homer

Cleary,Mule,Fil

*Sammy,Drapes,*Hudler

*McCarty,Drake,Maltby

(Kopecky,Downey)

*means those players are replaceable through a playoff run when other players ( ) would be working harder.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I love it when he puts the puck on his backhand. As soon as he does that I already know that the offensive possession is over, and that the puck is soon going to leave the zone.

However, as I've said a million times before, if Sammy was a left-handed shot, he wouldn't be half as hated on here, but even so, he'd still get a lot of heat.

I am baffled, though, at why Stuart isn't on the point. I know several posters have already argued that, but there's no way that Sammy is better than Stuart. Babcock is definitely obsessed over Sammy for no reason.

[Inultus 12]

As a player I think Sammy does well overall, but he shouldn't be on the PP. Like many have said, he shoots way too many pucks into a non-shooting lane which results in (at best) no shot or (at worst) a breakaway against us.

He shouldn't ever play the role of a defenseman, PP or not. I don't understand why Babs wouldn't be trying Stuart out on PP before the playoffs come up.

For those defending him, it's very simple in my eyes. He takes way too many ill-chosen shots for a top 6 player. His stats clearly bear that out. That is what people are complaining about and rightly so, IMO.

[lets go pavel 2]

Right now he is 7th on the team in points, 5th on the team in assists, 9th in goals.

So by doing basic elementary level math we can see that not only is he not statistically the worst player on the team technically more than half the team is worse than him.

HELL SAMMY IS STILL A BETTER HOCKEY PLAYER THAN THE FOLLOWING LIST:

Downey,

Kopecky,

D-mac (could turn out to be better, but hasn't yet)

Drake,

Maltby,

To name a few.

see, this is the interesting thing about sammy, and i think what causes so much frustration ... statistically he's a top-6 forward, and while injuries to other guys (cleary, homer) may have contributed to that, he's still up there, there's no debating that ...

but look at the guys you just said he's better than, presumably based on watching him play -- 3 guys who are often healthy scratches, malts who has a very specific and limited role with the team, and a guy who hasn't even played yet!! hardly a ringing endorsement for sammy -- it sounds more like an argument for why a 4th line guy deserves playing time than the resume of a top-6 forward, and this i think is the source of so much frustration around here ... if sammy were playing on the 3rd or 4th line and off the power play i think the majority of the complaints would disappear ...

[tubaguy 0]

Like many have said, he shoots way too many pucks into a non-shooting lane which results in (at best) no shot or (at worst) a breakaway against us.=

He holds on to the puck way too long and shoots the puck into the non-shooting lane after the open lane closes up. He needs to think less and he might become adequate. As Kenny will remind us (though I disagree), he is the type of player you need in the "new" NHL.

[igortheg8 0]

There's a reason Samuelsson gets our wrath when the Wings are faltering. Simply, no other top 6 forward sticks out like him for failing to make an impact.

I haven't seen any of the recent games where he has been playing with Zetts, but it seems Zetts production has fallen off with Sammy on his line.

Contrary to what some have posted, complaining about a certain player doesn't make one a "spoiled" fan. Are you worried that Sammy might read this thread and have his feelings hurt? I hope he does read this thread and then elevates his game so he actually earns the minutes of a top 6 forward.

To blindly defend Sammy is to defend mediocrity, and to lack faith in the forwards below him waiting for a chance for more minutes. If those forwards below Sammy are not considered top 6 caliber, then the Wings are overdue for an acquisition of another top 6 forward. This, by the way, is what Holland has been saying for at least the last two trade deadlines.

[Opie 308]

So then what healthy Forward should be playing in the top 6 besides Sammy.

I never said he is a top 6 forward, I said he plays a role.

And when Cleary and Homer are healthy that makes his role less.

There are injuries right now, and there are certain things the coach wants to see on the blue line of the pp, these are the reasons he plays the way he does. It is Babcock's and Holland's and Mr. I's team. If they had a problem with him in the role he is playing they would change it.

Look at my post before, his stats are not horrible, they are not great but would you rather pay twice his salary for:

Doug Weight (about the same stats, a little less)

Peter Schaefer

Tim Connolly

I could keep going team by team to find guys who make about twice his salary and are playing similar or worse hockey in a similar role.

I am not trying to say that Sammy is a great forward (which I think because I am not saying he is garbage some of you think I am saying he is great) but he is not as bad as you make it.

He gets blame when some one can't handle his pass even though it may hit Z on the tape, you people claim he passed it to hard? WTF?

How on earth could lowly Sammy who can't even pass according to you guys, hit him on the tape, and then have passed it too hard.

The man is not a great hockey player, but much like Huds, Lilja, Lebda, Kopecky, etc... you cannot have a successful team in the salary cap era without these guys, cheap role players.

Look at Tampa, they threw tons of money at a couple of players only to suck and have to trade those players, because they don't have two things, cheap role players and solid goaltending.

I have no problem, btw, with people saying he shouldn't be in the top 6, as I believe he shouldn't be, but there are some of you that completely discredit his abilities because you are spoiled wings fans and have no clue what it means to root for a team that sucks ass!

You see some one not doing what Dats, Z, Cleary, Homer, Franzen (as of late, even though most of you gave up on him, cough*), and they are trash player and their is no need for them to see any ice. What you don't realize is that every day their coach sees them, all of them, and if anyone on the team stepped up and showed they could play the way and style Babs wanted in place of Sammy do you really think he would risk his job because he has man love for Sammy.

He can cut Hud's/Sammy's minutes, or anyone's for that matter, when the team is healthy and firing on all cylinders. When the team is trying to rebuild from an injury streak, or certain players are out, or when certain positions (like 2nd pp point) need to be filled a COACH must fill those holes with what he has. THEN he has to make that player think that he has all of the confidence in the world in said player, otherwise that player will go out there thinking, Damn my coach doesn't think I can do it, I must suck at this!!

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Opie, Sammy is NOT better than Maltby.

[Opie 308]

Opie, Sammy is NOT better than Maltby.

Care to back that up with something besides your opinion?

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Care to back that up with something besides your opinion?

Maltby hits, kills penalties, scores (which Sammy does occasionally also), is a better skater, and his shooting has a purpose (zinger). He could be on the 2nd line just like Sammy could be on the 3rd.

And your proof?

Edited March 17, 2008 by Wings_Dynasty