Playoff Line-up

[YoungGuns1340 1]

True, but its not like I'm just basing this on one playoff season....I'm basing it on almost two full years of Hudler being in Bab's lineup.

I hope you're right about Hudler because he is a much better passer/playmaker than either Sammy or Fil, but again I was going by what I think Babs is deciding between, not what you or I want.

That being said, maybe Bab's will roll this 2nd PP unit and make everyone "happy":

Hudler-Filppula-Franzen

Kronwall-Sammy

Unless Cleary stinks it up in his return, I dont see how Franzen gets the PP time over Cleary. I know its been a long time, but when Hudler, Flip, and Cleary were playing together on the PP earlier in the season, there were moments where it was just sheer domination in the corners and behind the net. In fact, there were some nights where they were better than our 1st PP unit. Another thing to consider is, if Franzen is going to be used primarily in a shutdown center role as Babs said he wanted him to be, I cant imagine Babs wanting to use up Franzen's energy on the PP when Cleary is as good, if not better, than Franzen and can play the same front-net role effectively.

I guess it all depends on Clearys level of play in his return.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

And as NN pointed out Hudler played 6 playoff games last year compared to Filppula's 18. I'm sure there was ample PP time in those 12 games Hudler didn't get to aid the team on. Aside from saying, one season a trend does not make, what reason do I have to believe that Hudler will be a fixture on the second unit during these entire playoffs?

Edited March 20, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Unless Cleary stinks it up in his return, I dont see how Franzen gets the PP time over Cleary. I know its been a long time, but when Hudler, Flip, and Cleary were playing together on the PP earlier in the season, there were moments where it was just sheer domination in the corners and behind the net. In fact, there were some nights where they were better than our 1st PP unit. Another thing to consider is, if Franzen is going to be used primarily in a shutdown center role as Babs said he wanted him to be, I cant imagine Babs wanting to use up Franzen's energy on the PP when Cleary is as good, if not better, than Franzen and can play the same front-net role effectively.

I guess it all depends on Clearys level of play in his return.

Now that's very true.

[norrisnick 1]

Filppula is already one of the better puck carrying forwards on this team.

Even with Franzen likely locking up that 2nd unit fronting position, i'd imagine that Cleary will still be on this unit. He has simply shown too much ability to put the puck in the net, especially in tough areas to be left off. Add on the fact that he is useful in retreiving the puck along the boards, is patient and strong with the puck, and can provide a 2nd player willing to go to the net. Simply put, Cleary provides too much versitility to be left off - unless of course his face guard gives him too much trouble.

Filppula-Franzen-Cleary

Kronwall-Samuelsson/Stuart

Hudler is not going to play the point on the pp, and Franzen and Cleary are virtual locks(once again, assuming Cleary is able.) That means it's between him and Filppula (and possibly Samuelsson if Babcock puts Stuart on the point). And at this point, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Filppula get the nod to begin with.

Puck carrying skills are largely useless for the PP. Sure you want at least the one guy to be able to do it so you can enter the zone (Pavel is that guy for the top unit and Kronwall for the 2nd), but once there passing the puck is FAR more important. It's part of the reason why Bowman criticized Coffey. He could carry the puck but wasn't particularly good on the PP apart from that.

As far as moving the puck around, Hudler is the best forward we have apart from Pavel and Z. He's calm. Finds the open man. Hits them on the tape.

[silkyjohnson13 0]

Babcock already stated hes going to use Franzen on the third line as a shutdown center. Switch Cleary with Franzen, and then switch Franzen with Draper.

Flip - Dats - Homer

Cleary - Zetterberg - Sammy

Draper - Franzen - Maltby

Hudler - Kopecky - Drake

Looks good (and realistic) to me.

I figured that one of them would for sure play that 3rd line checking role with Drapes.

Franzen is the better shutdown type guy and Cleary has more offensive ability, so it would defently make sense.

I just questioned whether Babcock was going to leave the Franzen-Z-Sammy line together and let Cleary play on that checking role(both due to his success with Draper last postseason along with his ability or lack there of to play his offensive game due to being gone for so long + the faceguard).

[YoungGuns1340 1]

If Hudler continues to play on the 4th line, then it's not such a ridiculous decision. I'm sorry, but Hudler is probably the worst checking line forward I have ever seen in my entire life, next to Josh Langfeld or Mark Mowers. He's only effective if he's playing top line minutes, and the only time that happens is when the Wings M*A*S*H unit is out playing, and there is nobody else to put up there.

I'm not a big Hudler fan by any means, but I'd rather have him get more minutes than Samuelsson, but it's never going to happen in a million years. Babcock loves Samuelsson (it's sickening how much he compliments his play). He's the most likely choice to take out of there, but it won't happen.

If McCarty actually came back and didn't suck, then why not consider it? I mean, the job of a 4th line player is to hit, be physical, play defensivily, etc. Hudler does none of those things. He's an offensive minded player, but if he's not going to be used in a offensive role, than there is no point in playing him. He is not a 4th line player, and is terrible at playing that role.

McCarty could also be a huge liability, especially when we dont have the first change. NHL timing is a world of difference from what McCarty is used to, and I could see that taking some time. We have no idea how good or how bad hes going to be once the playoffs arrive. And its certainly not the time to go with the "why not?" philosophy and just throw him out there sink or swim.

Also, Its always hard to put down your lineup on paper. Im with you that Hudler would be a s***ty 4th line forward. But is he really going to be playing that role? No. More likely, he'll be getting 4th line MINUTES, but he wont be put in 4th line situations. To be honest, Franzen will cement the 3rd line, but I wouldnt be surprised to see him at top 6 minutes. Likewise with Hudler, I dont think hell play in any checking situations, rather I see him taking a few even strength shifts lining up alongside Hank or Datsyuk in a top 6 offensive role, replacing Homer and Sammy for a few shifts throughout the game, and then getting most of his time on the PP, where he belongs.

[norrisnick 1]

And as NN pointed out Hudler played 6 playoff games last year compared to Filppula's 18. I'm sure there was ample PP time in those 12 games Hudler didn't get to aid the team on. Aside from saying, one season a trend does not make, what reason do I have to believe that Hudler will be a fixture on the second unit during these entire playoffs?

And even with the ample PP time, Hudler ended up with more of it than Filppula in 1/3rd the games.

He's a season further along. He's the 9th forward in icetime as opposed to the 13th. He's going to be in the lineup. And he'll get solid PP time.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Don't forget that a lot will depend on how long it takes Cleary to get to the level he was before his injury. If he doesn't perform at that same level, then there's a chance that he'll lose his top 6 spot, especially since Babcock loves Sammy and would do anything for him.

[Reds4Life 51]

Why? Yeah, he makes poor shot decisions, but he and Flip would be closer to the *style of play* that Z/Dats exhibit on the PP. I'm looking for PP success and the best scenario for Franzen to continue his PP production. Inserting Cleary who plays a completely different game than Z or Dats do may affect the way Franzen has to play the PP and force him to move away from the net. He's showed he's at his most effective while planting in front of it.

So if you want to give me a reason aside from "No Sammy. Please." that actually has substance, I'm all ears.

Sammy was/is on 2nd PP unit only because his "shot" and also because he shoots right-handed. Now that we got (and lost )

Stuart, I don't see any reason for Sammy to be on 2nd pp unit. They need to pass and make some plays, and with all respect to Sammy, he is not the right player for that.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Looks good (and realistic) to me.

I figured that one of them would for sure play that 3rd line checking role with Drapes.

Franzen is the better shutdown type guy and Cleary has more offensive ability, so it would defently make sense.

I just questioned whether Babcock was going to leave the Franzen-Z-Sammy line together and let Cleary play on that checking role(both due to his success with Draper last postseason along with his ability or lack there of to play his offensive game due to being gone for so long + the faceguard).

I see where youre coming from. Its a strong possibility that if Cleary doesnt get into the swing of things and isnt riding on too much confidence (offensively speaking) that Cleary could be put in a third line role. Although Ideally, itll be Franzen.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

And even with the ample PP time, Hudler ended up with more of it than Filppula in 1/3rd the games.

He's a season further along. He's the 9th forward in icetime as opposed to the 13th. He's going to be in the lineup. And he'll get solid PP time.

That all sounds great and viable....but again, lets just hope he gets played against the bigger teams and is a fixture rather than a second fiddle.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Puck carrying skills are largely useless for the PP. Sure you want at least the one guy to be able to do it so you can enter the zone (Pavel is that guy for the top unit and Kronwall for the 2nd), but once there passing the puck is FAR more important. It's part of the reason why Bowman criticized Coffey. He could carry the puck but wasn't particularly good on the PP apart from that.

As far as moving the puck around, Hudler is the best forward we have apart from Pavel and Z. He's calm. Finds the open man. Hits them on the tape.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Kronwall has made leaps and bounds this season and has become an absolute beast at entering the zone and setting up the powerplay.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sammy was/is on 2nd PP unit only because his "shot" and also because he shoots right-handed. Now that we got (and lost )

Stuart, I don't see any reason for Sammy to be on 2nd pp unit. They need to pass and make some plays, and with all respect to Sammy, he is not the right player for that.

I'm not refuting anything you said about Sammy, but you do realize that Sammy had been playing the point on the second PP unit with Kronwall until tonight.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

That all sounds great and viable....now lets just hope he gets played against the bigger teams.

I think Hudler is a lock to play in the first round. Its when we play San Jose and Anaheim that I question whether not he'll play. I expect Babcock to keep a close eye on him, and if Hudler remains effective, he'll continue to play.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I think Hudler is a lock to play in the first round. Its when we play San Jose and Anaheim that I question whether not he'll play. I expect Babcock to keep a close eye on him, and if Hudler remains effective, he'll continue to play.

One can ony hope. That being said, this is exactly my point

[YoungGuns1340 1]

As a side note, has anyone stopped to notice how much size San Jose actually lost since last year?

OUT:

Nieminen - 6'1, 220

Gorges - 6'1, 200

Hannan - 6'1, 225

Guerin - 6'2, 220

Bernier - 6'2, 225

Bell - 6'4, 220

Parker - 6'5, 240

IN:

Mitchell - 5'11, 190

Campbell - 6'0, 190

Setoguchi - 6'0, 200

Roenick - 6'1, 200

Ozolinsh - 6'3, 215

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

Big words coming from a guy whos posted nothing but crap since joining..

It's no loss to me what morons think. I mean it is not your fault. You can't help the fact that you're a moron.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Hatethedrake!

[Kp-Wings 3]

As a side note, has anyone stopped to notice how much size San Jose actually lost since last year?

OUT:

Nieminen - 6'1, 220

Gorges - 6'1, 200

Hannan - 6'1, 225

Guerin - 6'2, 220

Bernier - 6'2, 225

Bell - 6'4, 220

Parker - 6'5, 240

IN:

Mitchell - 5'11, 190

Campbell - 6'0, 190

Setoguchi - 6'0, 200

Roenick - 6'1, 200

Ozolinsh - 6'3, 215

I noticed that as well. And really, it's hard to even count Ozolinsh as added size, since he doesn't use his size at all. I have nothing against Ozolinsh, but he isn't a physical player by any means.

I guess you can consider Brian Campbell as added grit, but is he really? Aside from that one highlight hit he layed on some guy from Philly a couple of years ago (Umberger I think it was), he really doesn't intimidate anyone, at least it doesn't seem like that to me. He does drop the gloves every now and again, but he's not really all that physical, since he's more offensive minded, and is used as such.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[Barrie 900]

Here's mine...

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Filppula - Franzen - Cleary

Kopecky - Hudler - Samuelsson

Maltby - Draper - McCarty

Depth: Drake, Downey, Hartigan

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Chelios

depth: Lebda, Meech

Hasek/Osgood (Start the hotter goalie)

That's what I'd go with too, but Ozzie would be named #1 goalie.

Call me crazy, but I really think we have a great mix of speed and size. And I think we can play any kind of game our opponent tries to play against us. If they want to play a speed game, we can give them speed; if they want to hit us hard, we can hit hard back.

[Guest Crymson]

It's no loss to me what morons think. I mean it is not your fault. You can't help the fact that you're a moron.

I think he's hardly a moron; rather, he's a guy who has been frequenting these boards for a very long time, and he seems to have a penchant for making intelligent posts.

[Barrie 900]

I think he's hardly a moron; rather, he's a guy who has been frequenting these boards for a very long time, and he seems to have a penchant for making intelligent posts.

I'll second that.

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

I think he's hardly a moron; rather, he's a guy who has been frequenting these boards for a very long time, and he seems to have a penchant for making intelligent posts.

I have seen no such evidence of that in the posts I've seen from the said person. Nor do I expect to.

[Shaman 713]

Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Cleary/Zetterberg/Franzen

Maltby/Draper/Kopecky (shut down)

Downey/McCarty/Drake (fights)

depth: Hudler, Samuleson, Hartigan

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Stuart

Meech/Chelios

depth: Lebda, Lilja

Hasek/Osgood

Edited March 21, 2008 by Shaman464

[Yc172 3]

Here's Mine:

Flip Dats Homer

Cleary Zetterberg Franzen

Hudler Draper Samuelsson

Maltby Drake McCarty/Downey

Lids raffi

kronner stuart

chelios lilja

[marcaractac 3,963]

What I'd like to see:

Franzen-Dats-Cleary

Flip-Hank-Homer

Maltby-Draper-McCarty

Kopecky-Drake-Sammy

Depth: Hudler, Downey, Hartigan

Lids-Rafalski

Kronner-Stuart

Lilja-Chelios

Depth: Meech, Lebda

PP Lines:

1.Datsyuk-Hank-Franzen

Lids-Rafalski

2.Cleary-Flip-Homer

Kronner-Stuart

We may get away with having the ZDH line together in the first round, but there is no way we go all the way with the 3 together. If they get shut down, our chances of winning go way down, almost no matter how good players like Cleary, Flip, and Frazen play. The stars must produce, and playing them all together will result in the oposition shutting them down.

Datsyuk setting up Cleary and Franzen on the first line would be amazing I think. Flip is more of a playmaker, and having him on a line with Datsyuk probably wouldn't be the best fit IMO. Flip would probably be a better fit with Hank seeing how Hank has more of a knack for putting the puck in the net. Ofcourse Homer would cause havoc for the goalie much like Franzen could on the first line.

As for the 3rd and 4th lines, it would be awesome to see the grind line pwn again. But if DMac don't pan out like we hope, Drake would also work very well with Malts and Drapes I think, and if that were to happen, I guess the free spot on the 4th line could go to Hudler or Downey (If we play the Quacks). Also, I think Sammy would be much more effective on the 4th line. If he can do some hitting, play responsible, and chip in with the occasional goal, he'd be a perfect fit for this team in a less important role.

Edited March 21, 2008 by marcaractac