GM Rankings

[egroen 384]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/1478...M-rankings.html

Ken Holland is third --> But they take a dig at him for the Matthias for Bertuzzi trade. Yet Burke is #1 and no mention of him paying $4 million a year for the same person? *NOT* matching that proves in my mind Holland is a better GM.

Whatever.

Lou L. and Holland should be #1 and #2 (in either order) without a doubt in my mind. They have years and years of success and more cups. Burke has had recent success, but with a lot of foibles this year that for the most part have luckily worked out for him. It could have just as easily gone the other way and made him look like a complete moron.

Edited April 2, 2008 by egroen

[Opie 308]

ummm how is Brett Hull number 8.

Holland's winning % .670, I will give THN Big Lou, the man has more cups and a 22-14 playoff record.

But Burke with 1 cup, .543 W% is the best, while Wilson sits at 9 behind Hullie, Poile.

As a whole this article is crap (IMO)!

And that has nothing to do with being a homer and saying Holland should be the bestest OMGASASDFASHDJKHASJKLDH or whatever else. I can agree that Holland belongs in the top 3 but Burke as #1 over Lamoreillo and Gainey and Holland doesn't make sense to me.

[Guest nutz2u]

Burke #1? the only thing he's #1 at is whining.

[Shaman 713]

Well, Anaheim is the darlings of the NHL what do you expect?

[akustyk 84]

signing Bertuzzi for grand $4M and trading for so-so Weight and his $3.5M

are bright moves? ooops...

Burke is overrated. let's see how his dirty team fares in a couple of years

when the stream of high draft picks will cease and Burke hits the wall of

signing seasoned youngsters who'll demand big bucks.

Holland did great in this situation even though he faced a big problem of

fitting the team of veterans under the cap when the later's been introduced.

so far the only thing Burke did is properly develop the young crop of high

picks he inherited. and was kissed in his ass by Campbell who has no balls

to enforce proper justice

[detroitdan 0]

I saw this article on Mlive.com yesterday and here's what I wrote:

I can see the argument for Lamoriello, he's done a great job during his tenure in Jersey. But to put Brian Burke ahead of Holland is absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't have near the record that Holland does. Most of what has happened in Anaheim is the work of Bryan Murray (Getzlaf, Perry). People need to get over this thing with Burke. He's a good GM, but Holland and Lamoriello are in a class by themselves.

[CenterIce 83]

signing Bertuzzi for grand $4M and trading for so-so Weight and his $3.5M

are bright moves? ooops...

Burke is overrated. let's see how his dirty team fares in a couple of years

when the stream of high draft picks will cease and Burke hits the wall of

signing seasoned youngsters who'll demand big bucks.

Holland did great in this situation even though he faced a big problem of

fitting the team of veterans under the cap when the later's been introduced.

so far the only thing Burke did is properly develop the young crop of high

picks he inherited. and was kissed in his ass by Campbell who has no balls

to enforce proper justice

I haven't looked at the link (nor am I agreeing with any rankings), but I am guessing they liked the Weight deal, because he will be a free agent at the end of the year, so this allowed them to bring back Niedermayer. You can't look at just this year's cap. You have to look at future years, as well. The Weight for McDonald deal, allowed Anaheim to free up the money next year to have Niedermayer, this year.

[edicius 3,269]

Hmm. Looks like Bettman and Campbell got to THN too. What a joke.

[BeeRYCE 2]

I think one of the better GMs in the league might be Risebrough of the Wild. Not to say he has done any bold moves ever, but that's the thing, he hasn't had to. He has a lineup with great depth, no overpayed players, and some good committed players ensuring that he will at least have a decent team for many years to come.

However, Holland should be number 1. If the Bertuzzi thing was an issue, come on... At the time the deal was done, everyone was speculating how brilliant of a move it was, and how much of a manipulater Holland was for getting Bertuzzi the way we did. Now we see that Bertuzzi was a "flop" (which I don't think he was), and Shawn Matthias turned out to be a top prospect, it is suddenly a bad move. Holland hasn't done anything but proved his ability to maintain his team as still the best team in the NHL, even in the salary cap era.

[Rice 42]

signing Bertuzzi for grand $4M and trading for so-so Weight and his $3.5M

are bright moves? ooops...

Let's not forget about letting go of Bryzgalov for nothing.

Burke's tenure in Anaheim has been overrated. A lot of that team fell into his lap. Selanne had spent time there before and everyone thought he was done. He wanted to go back to Anaheim so Burke took a chance on him and it paid off. Niedermayer signed there because he wanted to play with his brother. Pronger demanded a trade and had a short list of teams. Anaheim already had the cap room and the assets. Dumping Fedorovs salary was a good move and Beauchemin turned out better than anyone expected...Marchant sucks. Who knows if Burke saw something in Beauchemin or just got lucky.

On top of that, look at the guys who were already in the organization when Burke arrived: Getzlaf, Perry, Pahlsson, Penner, McDonald, Kunitz, and Giguere. All of these guys were key last year for the Ducks.

[BeeRYCE 2]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/pages/puck_poll.html

Not knowing if a majority of us voted, but look who is number one according to the fans.

[Opie 308]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/pages/puck_poll.html

Not knowing if a majority of us voted, but look who is number one according to the fans.

I saw that too.

[awingsincebirth 0]

I think one of the better GMs in the league might be Risebrough of the Wild. Not to say he has done any bold moves ever, but that's the thing, he hasn't had to. He has a lineup with great depth, no overpayed players, and some good committed players ensuring that he will at least have a decent team for many years to come.

Risebrough does have a reputation of being a real solid GM in this league and generally putting forth a good team. However, I've heard more than one person say that, although he always puts forth a good team, he never seems to make that one move that puts them over the top. I think that this year's trade deadline was a good illustration of that, but I guess we'll see if that is the case when all the smoke clears and one team is hoistin the Cup.

[awingsincebirth 0]

Let's not forget about letting go of Bryzgalov for nothing.

Burke's tenure in Anaheim has been overrated. A lot of that team fell into his lap. Selanne had spent time there before and everyone thought he was done. He wanted to go back to Anaheim so Burke took a chance on him and it paid off. Niedermayer signed there because he wanted to play with his brother. Pronger demanded a trade and had a short list of teams. Anaheim already had the cap room and the assets. Dumping Fedorovs salary was a good move and Beauchemin turned out better than anyone expected...Marchant sucks. Who knows if Burke saw something in Beauchemin or just got lucky.

On top of that, look at the guys who were already in the organization when Burke arrived: Getzlaf, Perry, Pahlsson, Penner, McDonald, Kunitz, and Giguere. All of these guys were key last year for the Ducks.

This is all true. I think a lot of people are blinded by the fact that he is the GM of the defending Stanley Cup champ. Its more of a "what has he done lately" kind of deal. However, I hate how they seem to be entirely ignoring his ineffective tenure in Vancouver. While he was there, they really didn't experience any sort of significant success. Moreover, with the same core of players that he brought in still there today, they really still are not experiencing any success.

So, ya, I guess if the "Best GM" is determined over the last year and a half (and even that, as the post quoted illustrates, is questionable), the maybe he should win. However, to put him above Holland and Lamoriello, two guys that have experienced similar success to what Burke has experienced recently numerous times in the past, and have maintained a very high, consistent level of success, is incredibly stupid and short sighted. In my eyes, we need to see another straight decade of this kind of success from Burkey before we can start mentioning his name along side the other two.

Whatever.

[Hiei 192]

This is Identical to the St. Paul = New Hockeytown article. PURE. UNADULTERATED. BULLs***.

I rest my Case.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

signing Bertuzzi for grand $4M and trading for so-so Weight and his $3.5M

are bright moves? ooops...

Burke is overrated. let's see how his dirty team fares in a couple of years

when the stream of high draft picks will cease and Burke hits the wall of

signing seasoned youngsters who'll demand big bucks.

Holland did great in this situation even though he faced a big problem of

fitting the team of veterans under the cap when the later's been introduced.

so far the only thing Burke did is properly develop the young crop of high

picks he inherited. and was kissed in his ass by Campbell who has no balls

to enforce proper justice

Everybody has been ragging on Anaheim and Burke all year long. People keep pointing out how unstellar Niedermayer has been or how lackluster their offense has been.

Lest we forget that in the stacked Western Conference the Ducks still have the 3rd most points with 98, only behind the Wings and Sharks. And overall they are 5th since the Pens and Habs each have 100 points.

Unless they tank their last 2 games or unless the Habs and Pens win out, the Ducks could presumably end up with the 3rd most points in the league.

So how bad do they suck? People are fooling themselves if they think Burke isn't fantastic at what he does.

Do I agree he's #1. No. I think Kenny is #1. I have for a long, long time. I guess that's the most homerific aspect of me being a Wings fan.

But, I, unlike many others here have a lot of respect for Burke's ability no matter how people try to nitpick his moves.

Bottom line is he took what wasn't looking like a repeat champ and worked the system and his players from a lackluster .500 team months ago to a bonafide contender again this year.

More than anybody they are the team I fear most. With that said they are the team I absolutely want to face again in the WCFinals if possible. I want to play them and I want to beat them so bad I can taste it.

Burke #1? eh? He's still pretty goddamned good.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Let's not forget about letting go of Bryzgalov for nothing.

Burke's tenure in Anaheim has been overrated. A lot of that team fell into his lap. Selanne had spent time there before and everyone thought he was done. He wanted to go back to Anaheim so Burke took a chance on him and it paid off. Niedermayer signed there because he wanted to play with his brother. Pronger demanded a trade and had a short list of teams. Anaheim already had the cap room and the assets. Dumping Fedorovs salary was a good move and Beauchemin turned out better than anyone expected...Marchant sucks. Who knows if Burke saw something in Beauchemin or just got lucky.

On top of that, look at the guys who were already in the organization when Burke arrived: Getzlaf, Perry, Pahlsson, Penner, McDonald, Kunitz, and Giguere. All of these guys were key last year for the Ducks.

Kind of funny how that was the same argument used by Wings fans against Holland for how many years? Only now are most people starting to come around.

It's just funny to me that the same argument is being made against Burke now.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

This is all true. I think a lot of people are blinded by the fact that he is the GM of the defending Stanley Cup champ. Its more of a "what has he done lately" kind of deal. However, I hate how they seem to be entirely ignoring his ineffective tenure in Vancouver. While he was there, they really didn't experience any sort of significant success. Moreover, with the same core of players that he brought in still there today, they really still are not experiencing any success.

So, ya, I guess if the "Best GM" is determined over the last year and a half (and even that, as the post quoted illustrates, is questionable), the maybe he should win. However, to put him above Holland and Lamoriello, two guys that have experienced similar success to what Burke has experienced recently numerous times in the past, and have maintained a very high, consistent level of success, is incredibly stupid and short sighted. In my eyes, we need to see another straight decade of this kind of success from Burkey before we can start mentioning his name along side the other two.

Whatever.

The only thing I fault Burke for in Vancouver was not getting rid of Cloutier. He sucked and was always going to suck. The rest of the team he had was darn good and the Naslund line was maybe the most dominant in the league. But ******* Cloutier just killed them.

[Rice 42]

Kind of funny how that was the same argument used by Wings fans against Holland for how many years? Only now are most people starting to come around.

It's just funny to me that the same argument is being made against Burke now.

When Burke sustains success for around 10 years then call him the best GM in the league. The fact of the matter is that a lot of his core players fell into his lap. He's only managed an elite team for two years.

[Mac is Back 0]

Hey guys and gals, glad to be here finally, I've always read up on stuff, decided to join now.

Doesn't Kenny have 3 cups tho??? the article says 2

[Opie 308]

GS&T,

You will notice I am with you on the respecting Burke's ability as I only listed 3 GM's I would put above him.

Gainey has done a lot, Lou has done the most with what looks like the least, well except for good ole Marty, and Holland all have done it longer than Burke and that is the only reason I see him being out of the top 3. Had he done this for 7-10 years and a couple of cups than yeah sure he belongs towards the top.

I think the Penner deal (right now looks like Burke won) was a good deal for him as I don't think he would have been able to keep Penner, Getzlaf, and Perry. I think he may have overpaid Schneids, but I look like the one who is wrong there, so far. Other than that I think the Bert move was bad but that is the only bad move I can say he made, oh well that and letting Bryz go, but I think that was more of a we can't trade you and don't want to start you we will let you walk.

[calfan 0]

Everybody has been ragging on Anaheim and Burke all year long. People keep pointing out how unstellar Niedermayer has been or how lackluster their offense has been.

Lest we forget that in the stacked Western Conference the Ducks still have the 3rd most points with 98, only behind the Wings and Sharks. And overall they are 5th since the Pens and Habs each have 100 points.

Unless they tank their last 2 games or unless the Habs and Pens win out, the Ducks could presumably end up with the 3rd most points in the league.

So how bad do they suck? People are fooling themselves if they think Burke isn't fantastic at what he does.

Do I agree he's #1. No. I think Kenny is #1. I have for a long, long time. I guess that's the most homerific aspect of me being a Wings fan.

But, I, unlike many others here have a lot of respect for Burke's ability no matter how people try to nitpick his moves.

Bottom line is he took what wasn't looking like a repeat champ and worked the system and his players from a lackluster .500 team months ago to a bonafide contender again this year.

More than anybody they are the team I fear most. With that said they are the team I absolutely want to face again in the WCFinals if possible. I want to play them and I want to beat them so bad I can taste it.

Burke #1? eh? He's still pretty goddamned good.

I'm with you on this one bud. I think he's done a good job and would be top three. Within the top three its a bit of a pick'em. And don't forget, the Ducks have been more successful in recent playoff history than the Wings. Holland has to take some of the blame for the early exits since the last Cup win. And if someone wants to rag on Burke for his cosy relationship with the NHL brass, well kudos to him - wouldn't you want to see Holland have that pull with Gary and the boys? That's also part of good mgmt.

Lastly, while the season series was close, the edge has to go to the Ducks on pts and goals for and against and I believe the Ducks will beat the Wings if they meet in the playoffs.

[awingsincebirth 0]

The only thing I fault Burke for in Vancouver was not getting rid of Cloutier. He sucked and was always going to suck. The rest of the team he had was darn good and the Naslund line was maybe the most dominant in the league. But ******* Cloutier just killed them.

That may very well be true. Nonetheless, he was never able to get that team over the top. Did he have success in the sense of putting together playoff teams and Cup Contenders? Yes. But Holland and Lameriello have had similar success like that over the same length of time. Furthermore, both of those guys have gotten their teams over the top more times than Burke.

You say that you think that Kenny is the best, and I agree. In my eyes, judging the "Best GM in the game" isn't like judging the "Best Player in the game". Players go out there everygame and provide hard facts as to why they may be the best. You can look at performance over the course of a game, a week, a month, or a season, and say who was the best player in the league over that course of time. For GMs, it is different. In order to measure the success of a GM, you have to look back, sometimes way back. Having success as a GM is a very slow, long term process. Thus, to look at the last guy to win a Cup and say, "he must be the best", is naive. After all, it is entirely impossible that a GM could entirely mortgage their future, trade away all their top picks and prospects, and win the Cup that year, only to turn into a horrible team a few years down the road. Just because that GM won the Cup doesn't make him a successful GM...anyone can do that (To qualify, I'm not saying that Burke did that). Basically what I'm saying, and what I'm sure you guys believe as well, is that you have to look at sustained, consistent success, along with Cups over a long period of time to decide who is the best. If you do that right now, there should be no question that it would be #1. Kenny #2. Lou #3. Burke(???). He hasn't proven himself to be number one, not yet anyways.

I'd like to think that this has nothing to do with the fact that I hate his ass, it is just pure logic.

[akustyk 84]

But, I, unlike many others here have a lot of respect for Burke's ability no matter how people try to nitpick his moves.

the only thing that I actually stated was that Burke gets more credit than

he deserves for the very same reasons some ppl are judging Holland

- Burke inherited an extremely talented young core and completed it

with other ingredients. he did not built this team which is what some

writers try to credit him for.

and by similar logic I pointed to Bertuzzi and Weight as dumb trades.

if Holland's deal for Bertuzzi is used here as justification why he's

#3 why not considering Burke dropping bold $7.5M for two players

which are currently average at best?

why in this situation am I supposed to get the minus for Holland

for Bertuzzi trade. at the moment he pulled the trigger it was

a solid young prospect for a guy who once had a huge skill package,

was exactly filling team's needs and had also a lot to prove.

eventually, Bertuzzi wasn't that huge factor in Wings playoffs but

there were lot of reasons to do the trade Holland pulled the trigger.

I just don't buy this neat-picking when there's zero mentioning

of mediocre moves made by Burke

Burke is proactive and often makes highlight because of quick trades.

but there's been situation when his decisions weren't exactly the best

that's it. this is not saying Burke is bad or suck. it just is my opinion

that he also made some mistakes and in addition that he's yet to

show ability to keep the team good for longer time. Holland has

his Wings on top of the league for a number of years already.

despite lack of high draft picks, despite salary cup which significantly

undermined his effort of developing team, despite huge changes

with long-time Wings veterans retiring/moving, etc. seems like this

"missing data" was irrelevant for the reviewer. well, it is for me.

[Wingfan191 2]

Hey guys and gals, glad to be here finally, I've always read up on stuff, decided to join now.

Doesn't Kenny have 3 cups tho??? the article says 2

He wasn't the GM in 97.