Norris Trophy Finalists

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Ok. Because I am a huge homer, I will just point out a few things about Phaneuf. He had more goals than lidstrom, which is a big number for defenceman. Calgary plays in a much tougher division. Calgary scored 226 goals while the wings 252. Phaneuf also has a much more dominate physical play, although it is easily arguable the lidstrom is better defensively.

But I still think lidstrom wins by a landslide.

I can respect your comment about Phaneuf's goal total as opposed to Lidstrom, but similarly Lidstrom destroyed Phaneuf (and Chara combined for that matter ) in the +/- category.

As for the division comment, you should've taken notice what the Wings did against the Flames' more "dominant" division. That will tell you plenty.

[wingslogo19 281]

I don't think there was any doubt on this one

[jvxp 0]

Lidstrom wins.

It should be a no brainer.

[WiNgSowN 0]

Lidstrom FTW! Always gonna be.

BTW Chara had a dreadful game 7 last night ( was a -3, got undresses by streit, and was in the penalty box for the 3rd goal)

[Vansmack-CP 0]

I can respect your comment about Phaneuf's goal total as opposed to Lidstrom, but similarly Lidstrom destroyed Phaneuf (and Chara combined for that matter ) in the +/- category.

As for the division comment, you should've taken notice what the Wings did against the Flames' more "dominant" division. That will tell you plenty.

I can't really disagree with anything you have said. I was just pointing out some of the things voters tend to think about. As I said before, Lidstrom is the hands down winnner. Phaneuf has a long way to go before he wins one, generally needing to improve his consistency - somthing that lidstrom has managed to do year in and out for the past decade.

[calfan 0]

I can respect your comment about Phaneuf's goal total as opposed to Lidstrom, but similarly Lidstrom destroyed Phaneuf (and Chara combined for that matter ) in the +/- category.

As for the division comment, you should've taken notice what the Wings did against the Flames' more "dominant" division. That will tell you plenty.

He didn't say dominant, he said tougher which I take to speak more to style of play and the fact that it is a lower scoring division (and possibly he was also referring to the greater physical abuse players in the NW take).

In any case, there are more stats for a defenseman than points and plus minus and Phaneuf fairs as well or better than Lidstrom in some of those categories. Hits, time on ice, shots, etc.

Having said that, I personally think Phaneuf has a long way to go before he can be considered an elite defenseman and he will not win this trophy this year.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

The Norris was never even a contest. It was already won before the season started. Seriously, it's scary how good Nick Lidstrom is.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I can't really disagree with anything you have said. I was just pointing out some of the things voters tend to think about. As I said before, Lidstrom is the hands down winnner. Phaneuf has a long way to go before he wins one, generally needing to improve his consistency - somthing that lidstrom has managed to do year in and out for the past decade.

I hear you.....and its not as though Dion is missing much. As you said, if he can work on his consistency and the mental aspect of the game a little more he's gonna win multiple Norris' over the course of his career. TBH, I'll be supremely disappointed if he doesn't because he has all the tools.

[akustyk 84]

Phaneuf seems exactly on the way to Norris trophy. he's picked up his game this year

and especially in playoffs has risen to the bar.

though, you can't say Chara is a bad d-man.

for me that would be: Nick, then Zdeno then Dion. though, I'm expecting this to change

next season or at most in 2 years. Phaneuf will get his hardware sooner than most of

ppl think

[Opie 308]

In my mind Dion is in a small list of people waiting to collect the Norris once Lids retires. Unless age hits him hard and falls completely of the shelf, he will be superior for at least 2 more years.

OR........

Phanuef, Chara, Pronger, or others will have to have not only a tremendous year defensively but would also absolutely have to go off offensively.

Hell Lids put up 70 points, that is nuts!!!!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

He didn't say dominant, he said tougher which I take to speak more to style of play and the fact that it is a lower scoring division (and possibly he was also referring to the greater physical abuse players in the NW take).

Perhaps, but I took it as standings-wise. Perhaps we should as Vansmack-CP what he was referring to.

In any case, there are more stats for a defenseman than points and plus minus and Phaneuf fairs as well or better than Lidstrom in some of those categories. Hits, time on ice, shots, etc.

I never said there wasn't cal. There are also plenty of other stats that suggest Lidstrom is the better candidate, such as PIM. Granted Dion's numbers are exaggerated due to fighting minutes, but I take minor penalty minutes as one of the many criteria it takes to win the Norris. For example, how often do you put your team shorthanded because of a mistake or in a crucial time of a game. Regardless of fighting, Dion has taken many more minor penalties this season than Lidstrom.

Another major factor in determining who is the Norris Trophy winner IMO is "level of play". They may not have a quantitative number for this but it is major factor in determining the winner, and hence why Lidstrom has won as many as he has the past 6 seasons.

Having said that, I personally think Phaneuf has a long way to go before he can be considered an elite defenseman and he will not win this trophy this year.

Having said all this, I don't think Dion has as long a way to go to become an elite defenseman as you do. I think he's already up there. I sure wouldn't mind him on my team.

[union drone 0]

Both Phaneuf and Chara are worthy finalists. Phaneuf will have his time in the sun--just not this year. Lidstrom is the clear choice for Norris in '08.

I think that Phaneuf could become the next "perennial" Norris winner, unless some of the other young, talented D-men step it up (i.e. Campbell, Greene, Markov, etc).

[norrisnick 1]

Ok. Because I am a huge homer, I will just point out a few things about Phaneuf. He had more goals than lidstrom, which is a big number for defenceman. Calgary plays in a much tougher division. Calgary scored 226 goals while the wings 252. Phaneuf also has a much more dominate physical play, although it is easily arguable the lidstrom is better defensively.

But I still think lidstrom wins by a landslide.

More importantly Calgary allowed 224 whereas the Wings allowed only 179.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I never said there wasn't cal. There are also plenty of other stats that suggest Lidstrom is the better candidate, such as PIM. Granted Dion's numbers are exaggerated due to fighting minutes, but I take minor penalty minutes as one of the many criteria it takes to win the Norris. For example, how often do you put your team shorthanded because of a mistake or in a crucial time of a game. Regardless of fighting, Dion has taken many more minor penalties this season than Lidstrom.

Having said all this, I don't think Dion has as long a way to go to become an elite defenseman as you do. I think he's already up there. I sure wouldn't mind him on my team.

I agree I think that the PIM is a big difference. Dion had 182 this season and Lids only had 40. Fighting does inflate those which in my opinion is a positive and a negative. Great that they have him to be able to do that and stand up for and excite his team but sometimes that puts his team in a hard spot to be without their best D man for 5 minutes. I mean 182 minutes equals 3 full games worth of minutes that they were without their best and one of the best D men in the game. Lids very rarely puts his team down a man or in a situation where they have to play extended times without him.

[VM1138 1,921]

Lidstrom is no mere mortal. It's a guy who never makes ANY mistakes vs. two guys, as good as they may be, (And Phaneuf is good, don't mistake me), but still have bad games.

Regardless of stats: Guy who never has a bad game vs. Guys who sometimes do?

No brainer.

[GiantRobot 0]

He had more goals than lidstrom, which is a big number for defenceman.

True, but lidstrom had more points and triple the +/-. Also, more PPP, and it took Dion nearly 100 more SOG to score 7 more goals than Lids.

Calgary plays in a much tougher division.

The NW is a bit tougher, but its not by a ton. Hell, the flames only ended up with 6 more points than the Blackhawks did.

Also, The Wings were 15-2-3 against the NW, While Calgary was 10-8-2 in the central.

Calgary scored 226 goals while the wings 252.

And the Wings led the league in Goals Against with 184.

Phaneuf also has a much more dominate physical play, although it is easily arguable the lidstrom is better defensively.

Lidstrom doesnt need to be as physical as Phaneuf, because he is the best defensive player in the game. That is not arguable.

But I still think lidstrom wins by a landslide.

And I agree, although the others certainly do deserve the nomination.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Voting is already complete, playoffs have nothing to do with the voting.

In fact, Chara, Lidstrom and Phaneuf are simply the top 3 vote getters. It's not like they are the ones nominated and then you vote. The vote already happened, the votes were added up and these were the top 3. Someone or multiple people already know the winner.

I wonder if it'll be posted on wikipidea again like last year, haha.

[Guest drwings1]

I wonder if it'll be posted on wikipidea again like last year, haha.

that was sweet

[akustyk 84]

True, but lidstrom had more points and triple the +/-. Also, more PPP, and it took Dion nearly 100 more SOG to score 7 more goals than Lids.

and a centipede has way more legs than elephant does. centipedes rock!

I mean... let's not get ridiculous babbling about things that are of secondary meaning.

numbers are just what they are: numbers. you can't compare players just by looking

at more or less artificial coefficients. people play not digits

we're talking about two different D-men. Lidstrom who's playing smart game by

positioning and vision and Phaneuf who's physical presence with scoring touch.

the advantage of Lidstrom here is that he does his job great and has no holes in

his game. Phaneuf used to be good at hitting but so far lacked some dependability

and reliability. he is on the way for his Norris some day but it doesn't yet seem to

be coming now. the margin is narrowing but it's still Lidstrom's superiority.

truth being said Chara isn't necessarily the 3rd man here. he's carried his team

through the season and showed a lot of edge.

we'll see what the voters decided. it should be Lidstrom yet but who knows if

he repeats next season. Phaneuf showed good strides towards maturity this

season. and frankly that's pretty quick for a D-man. I mean... if he won Norris

at the age of 24... that would be something

[Yzerman191 37]

I'm pretty surprised Gonchar isn't in the running. He's among a handful of defensemen who have totaled 50+ points consecutively, and he had an amazing year defensively.

[Doggy 130]

Number 6 for Nick. End of story. I do think that Dion and Chara deserved to get nominations. They've had excellent seasons.

[Superman54 91]

I dont even think its too early to congradulate Lids

CONGRADULATIONS LIDSTROM!!!

[cirov19 1]

If Lidstrom doesn't win, I'm going to Toronto with a sniper rifle.

I won't go as far as take a sniper rifle to Toronto, but I will be 100% pissed off. There is just no way that Lidstrom should lose to Phaneuf or Chara. Just absolutely NO way.

[miller76 463]

Damn I was hoping Lilja a.k.a. the "paintrain" would have made the list. Well maybe Pronger can nab the Lady Byng from Datyuk! j/k.....

Lidstrom by a mile.

Curious though at the list of all of the vote getters.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Ok. Because I am a huge homer, I will just point out a few things about Phaneuf. He had more goals than lidstrom, which is a big number for defenceman. Calgary plays in a much tougher division. Calgary scored 226 goals while the wings 252. Phaneuf also has a much more dominate physical play, although it is easily arguable the lidstrom is better defensively.

But I still think lidstrom wins by a landslide.

Wait wait wait.....you mean to tell me that Dion Phaneuf is a good defenseman???

Seriously though. Phaneuf AND Chara are great defenseman who had great years. But there is absolutely no argument as to who is THE BEST in the NHL.