Double Standard

[Doggy 130]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

Good points. I'm glad you brought it up.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

May I remind you that this is a Red Wings fan board and that we are not required to pay homage to all things Crosby?

We have our own bona-fide stars in Detroit and feel, rightfully so in many cases, that our team is better without Crosby on it.

We prefer our players to be good defensively as well as offensively. We prefer our players to man-up and take responsibility when they put in a bad performance. We prefer our players to have maturity.

We don't want our team to be called "Henrik Zetterberg and the Red Wings." Obviously the Pittsburgh Penguins have officially changed their name to "Sidney Crosby and the Penguins," because they don't do anything to correct people calling them that.

We want a team, not a single star player that gets all of the attention of the league thrown on them,

We love our Wings. We don't like all others, especially when they are playing the Wings. We are quick to point out the flaws of every other player in the league, but defend to the death when other teams' fans pick on any member of our team.

AMEN!!!!

[betterREDthandead 58]

How does this thread embarrass me? Let me count the ways.

First, to the OP, well done sir. It seems you've been gifted with perspective that's lacking in most others.

I know our Wings are about to be crowned The Best, but it is in fact OK to give a little credit where credit is due to those not wearing our winged wheel. So let me start dissecting:

puh LEASE! I have not seen Crosby do much but cherry pick beside the net. What other goals has he had? What else has he done? Maybe he can run the gamet in the Eastern Conference...look how he preforms against the Western Conference.

Hmm, how good would Crosby really look if he had to contend with Western teams for 80% of the games a year rather than weak ass Eastern teams? Big difference.

QFT, Crosby would be just another 1st liner in the West.

Again with this "weak East" bulls***. The Wings are not the Western Conference, they are in the Western Conference. I can't see a single team in the West suffocating the Pens like this. Want proof? The Pens were 8-1-1 against the West, in case everyone forgot. Crosby's numbers against the West: 5 goals, 8 assists in 8 games. Wanna hear a secret? That's a better scoring pace than he had against the East.

Forsberg is the most overhyped player of the last two decades. He doesn't even have numbers to get a look at the hall but he will be an automatic selection due to the unbelievable manlove heaped upon him by sportswriters. How many times did he bail on how many teams and run back to Sweden when things became too tough for his high-heel wearing ass? Injuries? Sure, from flopping on the ice like a tossed octopus at the slightest brush. FAIL.

Lindros wasn't ever in the top 100 players in the NHL. He folded up faster than a lawn chair against us in the cup finals and was a personal target for anyone who could hit due to his glass jaw. He skated like he was wearing combat boots and never learned to move the puck without looking down at it...exactly the reason he got splattered so many times by big hitters like Kasparitis and Stevens. To top it all off - he was a total bawl baby when he didn't get his way with management and he had to have his daddy fight his battles with Bobby Clarke. FAIL.

I can't believe I'm about to defend two of my least favorite players ever, but here goes. I don't deny any of that stuff about running back to Sweden, having daddy fight his battles, being a spoiled little prima donna, flopping, getting owned by Vladdy, etc.

But Lindros, before he got hurt, was a ******* hoss. Forsberg was always his team's best playmaker, and amazingly enough he still has the skills. He lacks desire and health, but his skills are there. Between 1993 and 1996, Lindros racked up 282 points in 183 games. In a full 82 game season that's 125 points - 53 goals, 72 assists. Then the concussions hit and he was never the same.....but still better than a point a game for 5 more seasons. And Forsberg will be in the HoF - Cam Neely made it, so will Forsberg.

Back to the "West is so much better than the East" crap. That's a myth borne out the three straight West sweeps in the late '90s, and the 6 of 7 Cups won between 96 and 02. It was true then. The East put that crap to rest by winning three straight Cups with Jersey, Tampa, and Carolina. I hate when Wings fans spout that s*** because it makes us sound uneducated. And worse - it takes credit away from the Wings. It implies that what the Wings are doing here is not their doing - just playing out the string against the JV is all. If the Western Conference is so ******* brilliant, why didn't the Avs and Stars make it any harder to get here? The 2, 3, and 4 seeds got upset. Some conference. The only team that gave the Wings a real honest-to-god scare was Nashville.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Forsberg is the most overhyped player of the last two decades. He doesn't even have numbers to get a look at the hall but he will be an automatic selection due to the unbelievable manlove heaped upon him by sportswriters. How many times did he bail on how many teams and run back to Sweden when things became too tough for his high-heel wearing ass? Injuries? Sure, from flopping on the ice like a tossed octopus at the slightest brush. FAIL.

Lindros wasn't ever in the top 100 players in the NHL. He folded up faster than a lawn chair against us in the cup finals and was a personal target for anyone who could hit due to his glass jaw. He skated like he was wearing combat boots and never learned to move the puck without looking down at it...exactly the reason he got splattered so many times by big hitters like Kasparitis and Stevens. To top it all off - he was a total bawl baby when he didn't get his way with management and he had to have his daddy fight his battles with Bobby Clarke. FAIL.

Yes. I am stating specifically ILL-PREPARED. Statisics are not the only factor in a players preparedness to play hockey. This is not NHL 2K8....it is real life. Crosby was AND REMAINS woefully unprepared to accept the role of captain and assert himself as a leader. What he does do is embarass the organization and the league by bleating like a wounded sheep every time he doesnt get his way. He is a one-way, cherry-picking, pouting, whiney petulant spoiled man-child who need to be put over the knee of the coach for his own good. IN TIME he might grow into the player you hope for but for now he can only pad his stats and work on his golf game. In his current incarnation he will never touch the cup unless he become a leader and mans up. Again, FAIL.

Just because you say FAIL in big bold letters dosent mean you were right. To say Lindros in his hay day before the concussions was not a force is just retarted. He was widely considered to be one of the best players early on putting up INSANSE NUMBERS early on.

Forsberg has one of the highest ppg in leauge history, as did Lindros pre concussions. Higher in fact than zetterberg and Datsyuk in a lower scoring leauge. FAIL (See im allowed to do that cause i actually know waht im talking about)

And of course Crosby isnt mature enough, but like i said before hes 20, and when hes 27 he will be better than Z was at 27 GURATNEED.

[Mule Train 0]

I can't believe I'm about to defend two of my least favorite players ever, but here goes. I don't deny any of that stuff about running back to Sweden, having daddy fight his battles, being a spoiled little prima donna, flopping, getting owned by Vladdy, etc.

But Lindros, before he got hurt, was a ******* hoss. Forsberg was always his team's best playmaker, and amazingly enough he still has the skills. He lacks desire and health, but his skills are there. Between 1993 and 1996, Lindros racked up 282 points in 183 games. In a full 82 game season that's 125 points - 53 goals, 72 assists. Then the concussions hit and he was never the same.....but still better than a point a game for 5 more seasons. And Forsberg will be in the HoF - Cam Neely made it, so will Forsberg.

Sorry...I just cant agree. As I tried to point out earlier, statistics are only one facet of a hockey player. Lindros' leadership skills (since his did wear the C) were lower than whale droppings at his best. I'm not lambasting him for getting hurt; only for his lack of desire and focus and his penchant for whining (like another so-called superstar we know). This by itself, IMHO, disqualifies him for consideration as best hockey player at that time. Many, many players with excellent pure statistics will never get to the HOF - there are two few slots and too many deserving players. Sergei Federov comes to mind on this.

With regards to Forsberg...we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. As far as I'm concerned, Sakic was always the real playmaker on that team. Peter the Jake was the prima donna that got all the credit but Sakic was the guy who carried the load....quietly - like a real leader should.

[Doggy 130]

GURATNEED.

Not even close, Dog.

[Mule Train 0]

Just because you say FAIL in big bold letters dosent mean you were right. To say Lindros in his hay day before the concussions was not a force is just retarted. He was widely considered to be one of the best players early on putting up INSANSE NUMBERS early on.

Forsberg has one of the highest ppg in leauge history, as did Lindros pre concussions. Higher in fact than zetterberg and Datsyuk in a lower scoring leauge. FAIL (See im allowed to do that cause i actually know waht im talking about)

And of course Crosby isnt mature enough, but like i said before hes 20, and when hes 27 he will be better than Z was at 27 GURATNEED.

Yes...you can read statistics from NHL.com. It doesn't make Forsberg anything more than a guy who bailed on his team (just like again this year) and it certainly does make you correct. With regards to Lindros, his numbers never added up to a cup now did they? It takes more than PPG to make a great hockey player.

As far as Crosby goes - we'll see. You may just be right about him seven years from now. Only time will tell.

[Doggy 130]

Back to the "West is so much better than the East" crap. That's a myth borne out the three straight West sweeps in the late '90s, and the 6 of 7 Cups won between 96 and 02. It was true then. The East put that crap to rest by winning three straight Cups with Jersey, Tampa, and Carolina. I hate when Wings fans spout that s*** because it makes us sound uneducated. And worse - it takes credit away from the Wings. It implies that what the Wings are doing here is not their doing - just playing out the string against the JV is all. If the Western Conference is so ******* brilliant, why didn't the Avs and Stars make it any harder to get here? The 2, 3, and 4 seeds got upset. Some conference. The only team that gave the Wings a real honest-to-god scare was Nashville.

The rest of your post is very true but I don't see the points you're making here.

What does what happened years and years ago have to do with the quality of Eastern conference teams this year?

What does Anaheim and San Jose, the 3rd and 4th best teams in the league being beaten by Dallas, the second best team in the league have to do with the quality of Western conference teams?

The Avs were decimated by injury - what could they do? The Stars did make it hard. Nashville probably would've been a sweep if Ozzie was in net.

The Western conference is far better than the East. Anaheim, Dallas and San Jose would all beat Pittsburgh in a seven-game series. Don't call me uneducated because Tampa Bay won the Cup in '04. Make a decent argument and I might back off.

[betterREDthandead 58]

The rest of your post is very true but I don't see the points you're making here.

What does what happened years and years ago have to do with the quality of Eastern conference teams this year?

Nothing at all, which is the point. There's nothing to make the West that much better than the East, other than the old reputations.

What does Anaheim and San Jose, the 3rd and 4th best teams in the league being beaten by Dallas, the second best team in the league have to do with the quality of Western conference teams?

What makes Dallas the 2nd best? Because they made it to the conference finals? If so, then Anaheim doesn't belong on the list of the top 4.

The Western conference is far better than the East. Anaheim, Dallas and San Jose would all beat Pittsburgh in a seven-game series.

Would they? Dallas? I don't think they would. They might. San Jose would have the best shot. The Pens played each of those teams this season - they beat Anaheim, wiped the floor with Dallas, and lost to the Sharks in a shootout. What's for sure, IMO, is that those three teams would have this series at 2-2 at best, and might be down 3-1 instead of up.

The West was 83-67 against the East this year. This is good - it is not good enough for people to make outlandish claims like "Crosby would be just another player in the West". It's not good enough to act like the East is the JV conference.

The Wings are not dominating because they happen to be in the West and the Pens would get owned by just any Western team. They're dominating because they're the dominant team in the league.

[#19forPresident! 1]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

I think everyone can agree with that, and it does get a little annoying reading a complaint or insult every other post. But for as many fans as any given team has, especially this team, a certain amount of tasteless and out of spite rhetoric is bound to and always does make it's way onto the boards, ours and everyone else's, especially during the playoffs. Not condoning it, because I'd like to see it trimmed down as much as anybody, I'm just saying that it shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

Now here I have to respectfully disagree with you. First of all Lidstrom is the best player right now period, and probably will be until he retires.

Having said that I'll move onto the Datsyuk & Z critiquing. I have a couple of friends that are Pens fans so I've personally kept tabs on them a little more in depth than the average western conference fan does, but I think to say in general that the fans here are judging Crosby on this series alone is kind of an insult to the level of attention some of these people have for the game itself and their knowledge of the league not just Red Wings hockey. The next comment makes me wonder if you're watching it yourself because you criticize, no you laugh, at the the suggestion that either Zetterberg or Datsyuk are better players than Crosby, and then in the next sentence you remark at our quality defense, even saying it has "blinded" us to Crosby's ability. (I'm not quite sure what you meant by that but if our defense is shutting him down that much then we should be happy because he and his supporting cast are being outplayed) Not to mention you've just countered your own point, because our good defense doesn't stop at the back end, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are two of the best defensive forwards playing the game, without them our "good" defense becomes much less so. Unlike most premier offensive talent in the league they put almost the same time on the penalty kill as they do the power play, not because nobody else can do it but because they're very sharp defensively, just look at Datsyuk's take away numbers this season or Zetterberg's 5 on 3 play last night for a couple examples of their defensive work ethic. That in my opinion definitely makes them more valuable than Crosby, because while we could argue that he might be a slightly better setup man or goal scorer, Hank and Pavel are a lot closer to Crosby's offensive talent then Crosby is to their defensive talent, and based on that simple fact I would rate them as better players on the whole. TSN will never agree to that, but strong defensive plays don't pull viewers to the highlight reels like pretty goals (even though those two have plenty of those as well), that and their native son will always be preferred over "Euro" imports, just ask grapes about that

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

I'm with you again here about bashing to a certain extent, the occasional "reeeaaaaaaffff!" comment, or avatar with Crosby sucking on a pacifier are all in good fun, but pointless explicit insults are pretty uncalled for and tasteless regardless of what he does or doesn't say in a presser.

As far as his comments, I don't think he said the "right" things necessarily, but again I agree with you that he can't just shove bundles of praise our way and hope to boost his team's confidence. He seems confident personally, but I think he is smart enough to know his own locker room and how they will respond to what he will say, and judging by the way Malkin sat with his head in his hands for 15 minutes before he spoke to the press last night, as well as Therrin's ongoing obstruction witch hunt, I don't think the rest of his team is feeling the same spirit right now so I can't be mad at him over his unwillingness to give "respect" to our lineup.

Having said that I think the same rule can be applied to our players and why they aren't afraid to give the Pens bench praise. All of our guys have seemed confident and cautious through the whole series, maybe it's our experience showing but nobody has shied away from talking about the Penguins talent or their respect for it. Even Babcock flat out says when we were outplayed in his pressers, which is a night and day difference to Therrin's approach.

But all this stuff is just for us fans to be entertained by, the game's over, at that point there is a winner and a loser so who cares what words are minced after the fact. It's simply intended to give us fans something to talk about, which is always a successful mission!

[CAWingsfan25 0]

He has already Surpassed my expectations for him, seeing as that every single year he has been in the leauge he has had more points per game than Zetterberg. 102 points as an eighteen year old meets my expectations.

EDIT: Clarity

Here's my clarity.. Each one of Sid's 82+ games may have helped him achieve that point count you hold in such high regard, but.. right now, at this stage of the game, his numbers doen't mean sh*t. Isn't this what they play for all year? The SCF? Your right, in 10 years the stat books may show how great Sid really is, but if he can't get the job done in the finals, what does it really matter. The difference between Crosby and Zetterberg is the ability to get the job done. And..at this stage of the game, Z is winning that battle. And honestly, the fact that right now Crosby has 24 points, and Z has 23 does nothing but prove my point, considering that Crosby's sole purpose is to get the puck in the net. Z is running toe to toe with the "Face of the NHL", and yet when he's not setting up plays and scoring goals, he's shutting down Crosby. We all have our teams, our players and our opinions. I respect yours, but I live in the now. Right now, today, I don't care who will be great in ten years. I don't care who had how many points. I care about watching the Wings hoist the cup, and honestly, Zetterberg has given the Wings a much better chance of doing that than Sid has given the Pens. That, to me, makes Z the best player in the NHL today.

[Guest Cup_champ08]

Its a wings board dude of course there is going to be a double standard!!!

i hate crybaby x2!

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

right now, at this stage of the game, his numbers doen't mean sh*t.

You're absolutely right. What Crosby NEEDS to do is learn how to stop racking up nice stats, and learn how to win. What he SHOULD do is sign with us as a 4th liner, rack up 0 points, but help us win a Cup. THEN Crosby is a true WINNER. Who cares about anything else? Zetterberg is the reason where we are, and Crosby is the reason Pitt is the worst thing in human history. Scoreboard, Zeta!

(/sarcasm)

[Lilja 0]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

I agree.. Im so glad he doesnt say those things. I want players to say how they think in interviews not just praising the other team or players on their own team like robots. Yes how would it sound if a captain just capitulated like that.. it would be weird.

[Barrie 900]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

I wouldn't put to much into what we say here. This is a Red Wings message board. People come here to have fun, voice their opinions, and/or let off a little steam. Nothing here should really be taken too seriously.

Daily we prove to each other that we're Red Wings Homers and why none of us are Professional Hockey Experts or Sports Writers.

Lets Go Red Wings!

Edited June 2, 2008 by Barrie

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Here's my clarity.. Each one of Sid's 82+ games may have helped him achieve that point count you hold in such high regard, but.. right now, at this stage of the game, his numbers doen't mean sh*t. Isn't this what they play for all year? The SCF? Your right, in 10 years the stat books may show how great Sid really is, but if he can't get the job done in the finals, what does it really matter. The difference between Crosby and Zetterberg is the ability to get the job done. And..at this stage of the game, Z is winning that battle. And honestly, the fact that right now Crosby has 24 points, and Z has 23 does nothing but prove my point, considering that Crosby's sole purpose is to get the puck in the net. Z is running toe to toe with the "Face of the NHL", and yet when he's not setting up plays and scoring goals, he's shutting down Crosby. We all have our teams, our players and our opinions. I respect yours, but I live in the now. Right now, today, I don't care who will be great in ten years. I don't care who had how many points. I care about watching the Wings hoist the cup, and honestly, Zetterberg has given the Wings a much better chance of doing that than Sid has given the Pens. That, to me, makes Z the best player in the NHL today.

I repect your opinion but to be fair Crosby does not have the best player on the leauge on his team (Lidstrom) along with 3 other well above average Defensemen, or a stanley cup winning goaltender, or a second offensive force that hasent compeletly chocked.

To be honest, i feel crosby is a *****, but i still think he will turn out to be a better player than either pavel or z.

[eva unit zero 271]

I repect your opinion but to be fair Crosby does not have the best player on the leauge on his team (Lidstrom) along with 3 other well above average Defensemen, or a stanley cup winning goaltender, or a second offensive force that hasent compeletly chocked.

To be honest, i feel crosby is a *****, but i still think he will turn out to be a better player than either pavel or z.

Whether Crosby will turn out better doesn't matter; the point of this thread was 'Crosby is miles ahead of Z and D right now' which is completely not true.

[GreatBallsOfFire 0]

This thread really helped separate the blind homer Wings fans from those that actually know a thing or two about the game of hockey in general. Thanks a bunch.

[Doggy 130]

Nothing at all, which is the point. There's nothing to make the West that much better than the East, other than the old reputations.

What makes Dallas the 2nd best? Because they made it to the conference finals? If so, then Anaheim doesn't belong on the list of the top 4.

Would they? Dallas? I don't think they would. They might. San Jose would have the best shot. The Pens played each of those teams this season - they beat Anaheim, wiped the floor with Dallas, and lost to the Sharks in a shootout. What's for sure, IMO, is that those three teams would have this series at 2-2 at best, and might be down 3-1 instead of up.

The West was 83-67 against the East this year. This is good - it is not good enough for people to make outlandish claims like "Crosby would be just another player in the West". It's not good enough to act like the East is the JV conference.

The Wings are not dominating because they happen to be in the West and the Pens would get owned by just any Western team. They're dominating because they're the dominant team in the league.

Okay I better start by saying this is all my opinion and is no more valid than yours (which I do respect very much to be honest).

Dallas is the second best team in the league because they were the second most likely team to win the Cup this year, followed by Anaheim and San Jose for the same reason. I believe your basis for judgment is flawed if you believe one regular season game is what you should go by. I said about a month ago, there is no way Pittsburgh could beat Detroit. I made this judgment based on watching them play in the playoffs as well as the regular season. The reason I was so certain despite not seeing them meet at all was only because I've seen so much of the Penguins play. I know exactly how they work and why they've been successful in the East. I was certain a solid defensive system executed by quality defensive players would see their scoring promptly dry up. This is why I am also certain Anaheim, Dallas and San Jose would knock them off.

I love the Pens dearly, they've held a place in my heart for years because of Lemieux. But they're not that good yet. They don't play enough like a team to cut it against the great teams in the West. There are only 3 teams from the East that I believe are in the league's top ten and they are Pittsburgh, NYR and New Jersey - the Flyers are arguably in the mix too. The fact that Montreal finished first in the East should tell you enough about the quality of competition in that conference.

I'm sorry my argument is a bit muddled and messed up. I'm not a good writer and don't have the time to proof but these are some of my reasons. I don't think it was fair to say it makes me sound uneducated.

[Doggy 130]

Whether Crosby will turn out better doesn't matter; the point of this thread was 'Crosby is miles ahead of Z and D right now' which is completely not true.

The point of this thread is the make everyone aware of the hypociritical nature of many of the posts right now as many are whining much more than Crosby or Therrien. What makes it worse is that we're winning.

[seeinred 1,488]

The point of this thread is the make everyone aware of the hypociritical nature of many of the posts right now as many are whining much more than Crosby or Therrien. What makes it worse is that we're winning.

That's what fans do. We don't go out there and play, and the players shouldn't whine like some fans do. It's not hypocritical, it's different.

[Doggy 130]

That's what fans do. We don't go out there and play, and the players shouldn't whine like some fans do. It's not hypocritical, it's different.

It's what some fans do.

[seeinred 1,488]

It's what some fans do.

Right. That's what I meant, sorry. I added the "some" before the 2nd "fans" but I forgot it before the 1st.

Regardless, it's not my style for the most part to whine about people whining but I don't have a problem with it. It doesn't seem to accomplish anything. But then again, nothing I do behind this keyboard accomplishes anything.

[Doggy 130]

Regardless, it's not my style for the most part to whine about people whining but I don't have a problem with it. It doesn't seem to accomplish anything. But then again, nothing I do behind this keyboard accomplishes anything.

Agreed. I try to ignore it but I'm glad someone else mentioned it.

[Hank 0]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

Great post.

Yes, in games 1 and 2, the Wings dominated. But the last 2 games have been very close.

And Crosby is an exceptional talent.

I love Zetts and Dats, but based on pure offensive talent, the two of them aren't as good as Crosby. And he's only 20.

I do agree that he hasn't shown much respect to the Wings in his post-game comments, but like 'wingsownnhl43' said, what's he supposed to say? And I'd love to see how many 20 year olds would react like he has.

Heck, there's 30 and 40-somethings on this board that act 1000x more immature than he's acting. And his team is down 3-1 in the Cup Finals.

But this kind of talk is expected on this board. Where a villian from another team can be labeled a 'baby' and a 'cheapshot artist' in one moment, and then when they become a Wing, suddenlty they're 'wiley' and 'the ultimate competitor'. I can still remember what kinds of things were said about Chelios prior to 1999.

And if we had to play against Maltby in the playoffs, he would be villified to epic proportions.