Refs: No Accountability

[ILWingsFan1 0]

The calls last night were crap. The 4 minute one that they scored on was legit but the 2 interference ones were jokes and who knows what might have happened had the Wings not been killing those off. I don't think hardly anything should be called in OT of a SCF game unless it does/could cause major injury, like stick infractions. Otherwise, let both sides play and let the players on the ice decide the game, not the refs. Don't call bogus goalie interference calls and don't make Avon calls later to make up for it.

[toby91_ca 620]

I might have misunderstood, but I thought in another post [i think it was the kicking at the Pens goaler] you said you hadn't seen the game?

My comments were generally, not based on 1 game, 1 series or even one year, it's a common thing around here.

I did see parts of the game last night. I saw the 1st period, start of the 2nd, then I had to leave, got back home in time for the 2nd and 3rd OT's.

[Guest NumbaSixty-Six]

Mike Ilitch paid the refs off so they call in detroits favor.... everybody knows this.... detroit fans are indenial

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

Funny how everyone poked and laughed about the penguins crying about penalties when they lose, and now suddenly we lose and people are crying about penalties.

[Nightfall 871]

Funny how everyone poked and laughed about the penguins crying about penalties when they lose, and now suddenly we lose and people are crying about penalties.

No kidding.

[Icteria virens 11]

The calls last night were crap. The 4 minute one that they scored on was legit but the 2 interference ones were jokes and who knows what might have happened had the Wings not been killing those off. I don't think hardly anything should be called in OT of a SCF game unless it does/could cause major injury, like stick infractions. Otherwise, let both sides play and let the players on the ice decide the game, not the refs. Don't call bogus goalie interference calls and don't make Avon calls later to make up for it.

so why not just call regular season games that way too???

[Pensboy 0]

WORD

To the poster that said Detroit had more PPs than Pittsburgh...

Game 5

Pgh-5

Det-5

Game 4

Pgh-6

Det-3

Game 3

Pgh-3

Det-5

Game 2

Pgh-3

Det-8

Game 1

Pgh-5

Det-6

Detroit is +5 in power plays. So if you want to complain about refs, that's fine, they screw up, but don't complaing about power plays.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

All this bitching about the officiating has got to stop, we're no better than Therrien the pens fans if we keep on whining about the refs. They made a few bad calls on the goaltender interference, and the Datsyuk trip. I'm not denying that the calls have been on a slight tilt to the pens this series, but the refs have done nothing to prevent the red wings from winning the games. The Redwings had 55 shots on net last night, Fleury played the best game of his career, and the Wings lost. It pains me as much as anybody, but making excuses does not change anything.

[Pensboy 0]

The calls last night were crap. The 4 minute one that they scored on was legit but the 2 interference ones were jokes and who knows what might have happened had the Wings not been killing those off. I don't think hardly anything should be called in OT of a SCF game unless it does/could cause major injury, like stick infractions. Otherwise, let both sides play and let the players on the ice decide the game, not the refs. Don't call bogus goalie interference calls and don't make Avon calls later to make up for it.

You can't have it both ways...if you don't like the refs performance, how can you ask them to put the whistle away? What if the Pens decided to tackle everybody in the neutral zone, by your thought process it should be allowed to go in the OT. If it's a penalty in the first game, then it's a penalty in the last game. If it's a penalty in the first minute, it's a penalty in the last minute.

I agree the call of goalie interference was questionable, but so was the call against Sykora earlier in the series against Osgood. The good news is that it was called in both incidents.

[Pensboy 0]

All this bitching about the officiating has got to stop, we're no better than Therrien the pens fans if we keep on whining about the refs. They made a few bad calls on the goaltender interference, and the Datsyuk trip. I'm not denying that the calls have been on a slight tilt to the pens this series, but the refs have done nothing to prevent the red wings from winning the games. The Redwings had 55 shots on net last night, Fleury played the best game of his career, and the Wings lost. It pains me as much as anybody, but making excuses does not change anything.

No they aren't...as I said above, the Pens has 5 LESS power plays than the Wings.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

No they aren't...as I said above, the Pens has 5 LESS power plays than the Wings.

Saying the refs have a slight favor towards the penguins does not mean that they're penalizing the wings more, it means that of the penalties the two teams are taking those taken by the wings have been weaker calls than those called against the pens. I don't want to complain about officiating because I think it has not been a factor in this series whatsoever, I was just trying to prove a point that the wings should be able to win with or without bad calls against them or for them.

[Pensboy 0]

Saying the refs have a slight favor towards the penguins does not mean that they're penalizing the wings more, it means that of the penalties the two teams are taking those taken by the wings have been weaker calls than those called against the pens. I don't want to complain about officiating because I think it has not been a factor in this series whatsoever, I was just trying to prove a point that the wings should be able to win with or without bad calls against them or for them.

That is all opinion, just like if I were to say Kronwall leaves his feet everytime he hits. You can only go by tangible evidence, like the number of power plays.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

That is all opinion, just like if I were to say Kronwall leaves his feet everytime he hits. You can only go by tangible evidence, like the number of power plays.

Well firstly I would like to point out that Kronwall has actually stayed ground since game 2 of this series, but I just feel like the refs seem to make timely calls against the wings, I seem to feel this way often, most likely because I'm watching through red and white glasses. My point is, that if an openly biased red wings fan like me thinks that the calls have been close to even, chances are they haven't been hurting the wings too much.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Maybe your team could try not bumrushing the net and keeping their sticks down.. Just a thought.

You know absolutely NOTHING about hockey if you think that there was a penalty on either of the OT goalie interference calls. There is not one player (except the Penguins) or commentator anywhere that I have seen or heard that thinks either of those calls were even close to correct. There is not much argument about the high stick it should have definitely been a penalty. I don't care if you don't like the Wings or even if you bash them but it is idiotic to state that either of those calls should have been made.

[therock48880 14]

so you're saying that you're not tired of the Pens being on more power plays than us even though the same amount of infractions are taking place per side?

That's a great observation. Too bad it's wrong. Detroit has more power plays in this series than the Pens. Simple fact is, if they weren't so ineffective on the power play, we'd be sitting here discussing next year's roster and defending the Stanley Cup.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I'm actually starting to get a little sick of the attitudes on this board to be quite honest. Now, to be fair, I'm not sure if it is the same people or not, but when the Wings were winning the first couple games, there were a lot of people on here completely calling out the Pens and the Pens fans about their whining about the refs, calling the fans pathetic, blah, blah, blah.

What happens whent the Wings lose? The complaining on here gets downright disgusting and hard to read. It has been the same way for years now. I just have to hope it is not the same people complaining on both sides, otherwise we are really getting pathetic.

I don't mind blowing off a little steam about missed calls or stupid calls here and there, but I leave that to the game and during the heat of the moment. Complaining about the refs after the game is done is just ridiculous. You have to put yourself in shoes of the fans of the other team, they have reason to complain about s***ty calls to. s*** happens, deal with it. I could see where you might spill over after the game about a bad call that cost the Wings the game....a really obvious bad call, but this doesn't happen very often at all and didn't happen last night.

Sit back and realize that the refs have missed a lot of calls on both team and have a made a lot of questionable calls against both teams as well. It sucks, but it's been pretty even as far as I can tell and it normally is.

I agree with you to a degree. Penalties will always be missed or called when there was not one. And in my opinion this has been an amazing SCF and has been great for the sport of hockey BUT I also think that serious damage will be done if Detroit wins the cup or in 6 or 7 the Pens win the game on a call that poorly officated. I don't think that the calls were because we are the Wings or they are the Pens or anything like that but what a horrible ending to an amazing game if that happens. Furthermore, I think it is bad for the sport to penalize guys for driving to the net while rewarding guys when there is a small and often embellished interference 80 feet from the net. My gripe is not oh thats why we lost (because I don't think it is) it is more that this cannot be the best that we have to offer in the way of officiating in the SCF or someday soon the Cup will be decided by a ref on a call that is not even questionable (at least in 1999 the Bret Hull goal was questionable and debatable) and I don't care who wins I don't want that to happen.

[servo 15]

Maybe your team could try not bumrushing the net and keeping their sticks down.. Just a thought.

Good to see you around here MEG!

But come on! Bum rushing the net? Mellaby made a career of "Bumrushing the net". If you can't drive to the net or put your stick in the crease to score a goal hockey will turn into the ice capades.

[Nightfall 871]

refs have been questionable and have blown calls since the dawn of time. it happens. but i have yet to see a series decided by refs.

QFT

For 75+ years, the NHL has been in operation and discussions about the reffing have probably taken place throughout that time. The NHL has taken the time to hire the best hockey refs out there. They receive continuous training and work. They are shown tapes of what and what not to call. They are tested and tested again. While they may be great refs, it all comes down to two things.

1. Human perception

2. Speed of the game

I am willing to bet that 98% of the users on this board have never reffed a hockey game before. The higher you go up in level of reffing, the harder it gets. There are refs that I know that work at the college level and the AHL level, and even they say its not an easy job. They spend time reviewing tape of the games they call. They try to call a 100% accurate game. However, at the speed the game is played, its impossible to get every call right. Especially when you consider players dive and try to draw penalties. Also, there are times where something looks worse than it actually is resulting in a call that isn't warranted. Lastly, you have calls that are missed because the ref doesn't see them.

There is no way I can fault the refs in this series so far. Sure, there have been missed calls. There have been calls on both sides that shouldn't have been made. There have been players diving to get calls. In the end, the refs haven't decided the series.

The Wings outplayed the Pens in the first 2 games hands down.

The Wings came out flat in the first 2 periods and lost game 3.

The Wings worked hard in game 4 and it came down to a few fortunate bounces and a nice backhand shot by Hudler.

The Wings came out flat in game 5, played the first 2 periods like crap, and still almost came back to win.

The refs didn't do anything to the Wings in the 2 losses they had. The Wings played like crap for 2 periods in both games they lost, and you aren't going to win many games playing like utter crap for more than 1/2 the game.

I have worked for an ESPN affiliate doing coverage for college hockey for many years, and in all those years I have learned that the losing team and their fans complain about the reffing 99% of the time. The winning team doesn't say anything about it. Thats a pretty good telling sign isn't it? The only time that the "refs suck" posts come out on this forum is after a loss.

Just my .02 cents.

[Frozen-Man 144]

In my opinion there is a big difference between whining about the refs and blaming our losses on them and being genuinely concerned when the refs make such patently horrible calls (no matter which team they are called on) for something like crashing the net. I do not want the Wings to get a PP based upon a similar call and would be greatly disappointed if we win the Cup in overtime tonight based upon call such as the two OT goalie interference calls in game 5. How can it be good for the sport for players to be afraid to crash the net (especially in OT when it is sudden death) because they are afraid that a wonderful hockey play will not only not result in a goal for their team but will actually put them down a man. Additionally, it is compounded by the fact that there were two almost identical horrible calls in OT. You would hope that the refs would be embarrassed by such a gaffe and would be certain before they called the penalty. It is not just that they were botched calls (that happens no big deal) it is that the result will be that players will not drive to the net or will do so with great trepidation and that is a horrible result.

Again I am not blaming the refs for our loss if the team had played better in the first, or not given up a goal with 34 seconds left it wouldn't even be an issue. Regardless of the outcome of any game we should not have one much less two calls.

[Firehawk 305]

And it's not like Detroit was exactly lethal on the powerplay anywho.

If Detroit doesn't win in Pitts, i'll be very surprised.

I can see it both ways. If Detroit wins, it's typical resiliancy of Detroit buckling down and getting a win. If Detroit loses, it better be because Pitt outplayed Detroit as opposed to getting all kinds of breaks from the refs.

I'm not complaining about the refs, I think we've all done enough of that. But I would prefer that it gets decided by the players.

And just because Detroit wasn't lethal for 7 power plays doesn't mean the 8th won't work. Pitt didn't do a damn thing on the 2 interference calls in OT (surprisingly). I just knew when we got that 4 minute job that we were done. In fact i turned to my sister that was watching the game with me and said "we're not getting out of this'. Everybody was tired, it was 3rd OT, and a 4 minute PP for Pitt is just asking for all kinds of problems. Their PP has been excellent.

[arpawocky 0]

I have worked for an ESPN affiliate doing coverage for college hockey for many years, and in all those years I have learned that the losing team and their fans complain about the reffing 99% of the time. The winning team doesn't say anything about it. Thats a pretty good telling sign isn't it? The only time that the "refs suck" posts come out on this forum is after a loss.

Au contraire mon frere.

I believe we were howling after the call against Homlstrom in game 1 which we won.

The two thing that have irked me is that I believe they have changed the definition of interference as the playoffs have progressed. I could be wrong but it seems like we have gone back to the 1999 definition. I haven't found any clips to prove my point. But I would really like to see video proof (either way).

The second thing that gets me is the amount of credence they give to Pittsburgh's complaints. They asked the refs to look at Holmstrom play which results in an interference call in game 1. They complain about interference and obstruction so the Red Wings are now getting called for it several times a game. They complain about the face offs and now a Red Wing gets thrown out of the face off circle every other play.

I remember the finals against the Devils where Bowman complained to the league about interference. He even made a video. And how did the league respond? By calling interference on US.

[Matt 1,049]

1. Human perception

2. Speed of the game

So is it safe to say that O'Halloran's "human perception" is a bit lacking compared to that his counterparts'?

[Nightfall 871]

So is it safe to say that O'Halloran's "human perception" is a bit lacking compared to that his counterparts'?

Haha! You might be able to say that.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

GO WINGS GO!!!

[Nightfall 871]

Au contraire mon frere.

I believe we were howling after the call against Homlstrom in game 1 which we won.

After the game was over, it was merely a passing thought and nothing more. If you thought of the refs at fault in Game 1 and still think about it today.....all I can say is "So one instance disproves my point?" I said a vast majority.

I have to agree with your assessment of how the OT periods went though. Seems that we slipped back into the clutch and grab style of hockey and the refs put the whistles away. I distinctly remember a few interference calls on both teams in the first period, a interference call on Hank when a Penguins defender pushed him offside. Yet no calls on those. That concerned me a lot because Detroit doesn't play that style of game. The NHL needs to tell the refs to call a tighter game this time around, especially in the OT periods.

I don't get any impression that they are giving more credence to the Penguins. To reference this, I went back to the Dallas series when Tippet was complaining about the lack of calls against Detroit. A total of 34 minor penalties were called against Detroit in the 6 game series. So far, after the equivalent of 6 games if you count the OT periods, there are 31. What does this prove? Its not like the refs are calling more against Detroit thats for sure. Even with Tippet and Therien bitching.