The Pens next year

[eva unit zero 271]

Makes you question his consistency? He was a 19 year-old suffering a sophomore slump. Not to mention he was a winger last season and this season, at 19, they asked him to be their checking line center. As he grows into that role, he's only going to get more productive.

From Samuelsson to Anson Carter... can you get any more ridiculous with your comparisons? I'm shocked you haven't mentioned Chris Gratton to be quite honest.

There is no way Staal signs a 3+ year deal for less than $4-5M/yr. They've got another year to wait and see and negotiate, but it could bite them in the ass if he explodes at 20 like his brother did.

His brother was playing in a primarily scoring role at 20. Jordan won't be. And even if he does explode? That just means that they can trade Malkin for a couple of talented wingers so they aren't the Pittsburgh helicopters.

And I didn't say I questioned his consistency; I was more saying that a 17 goal drop brings up the consistency issue from a negotiation standpoint. Which hurts his value. If he scores 30 next year, then it might go away. If he scores less than 20, though, his value goes down because he's then two years removed from his one 20-goal season, and has consistently scored third line-type numbers for two seasons. I expect Ray Shero to wait until early next season to see how Jordan is performing, and if he is not scoring, to offer him a deal that would take him to the cusp of UFA status for less than $3m a year. If Jordan is scoring at a 30+ goal rate, I wouldn't be surprised to see an offer above $3m for the same length. Shero seems like a fairly good hockey head, and that's the kind of thing I would expect from such.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Malkin reminds me of a young Fedorov. He has a lot of skill, but when it comes down to it, I expect that he plays more for himself, and less for his team. If he were given the opportunity to make more money elsewhere, with a solid first line role, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped on it.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

Im sure anaheim fans were saying that about dustin penner. You think if some teams offers 7 or 8 mill a year for Fleury the pens can afford it, knowing Malkins contract comes up after next season.

If someone would actually do that...we would let him go and take the 4 or 5 #1 picks as compensation

[norrisnick 1]

Malkin reminds me of a young Fedorov. He has a lot of skill, but when it comes down to it, I expect that he plays more for himself, and less for his team. If he were given the opportunity to make more money elsewhere, with a solid first line role, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped on it.

Young Fedorov? Are you kidding? Sergei was the runner up for the Selke his 2nd year. Won it his 4th year, along with the Hart, finishing 2nd to Wayne F'in Gretzky in the scoring race. When it came down to it, Fedorov did what it took to win. Period.

Malkin has done way more floating around in his 2 years in the league than Fedorov has done over his entire career.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

If Hossa stays...Malkin may get shopped....We could get a TON of value...Im not advocating it...but it wouldnt shock me either....

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

Orpik doesn't like playing for Therrien.

Thats bullcrap...Orpik debunked that bulls*** rumor yesterday

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

Staal is a guy who has scored 20 goals once, and is a decent checking center. He has done nothing else to this point; in other words, he's a center version of Mikael Samuelsson in terms of accomplishments and defensive ability. Samuelsson makes $1.2m...so being generous we'll say Staal gets $2m.

PLEASE tell me you didnt just compare 19 yr old Jordan Stall to Mikael Samuelsson ......

[HenryMalredo 2]

If Hossa stays...Malkin may get shopped....We could get a TON of value...Im not advocating it...but it wouldnt shock me either....

The Pens have a superstar first liner center with Crosby, and a future 2-way second line center in Staal. Malkin is a great player, but he's expendable for the sake of the team, as long as they get something good in return. Teams lacking star power, like maybe Phoenix, would probably be willing to give some good young players in return.

[eva unit zero 271]

PLEASE tell me you didnt just compare 19 yr old Jordan Stall to Mikael Samuelsson ......

In terms of right now ability? You bet.

Both are capable of 20 goals, but not sure bets. Both are reliable defensive players who are not Selke contenders, but are well above average.

The difference is that Samuelsson's value might be at its peak right now, while Staal's is growing rapidly.

If I were comparing Staal to Sammy in terms of overall ability AND potential, I wouldn't have said Staal was worth about $2m per year for a three year deal.

[norrisnick 1]

The Pens have a superstar first liner center with Crosby, and a future 2-way second line center in Staal. Malkin is a great player, but he's expendable for the sake of the team, as long as they get something good in return. Teams lacking star power, like maybe Phoenix, would probably be willing to give some good young players in return.

If I were Shero I'd try to do everything in my power to get Bouwmeester.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Young Fedorov? Are you kidding? Sergei was the runner up for the Selke his 2nd year. Won it his 4th year, along with the Hart, finishing 2nd to Wayne F'in Gretzky in the scoring race. When it came down to it, Fedorov did what it took to win. Period.

Malkin has done way more floating around in his 2 years in the league than Fedorov has done over his entire career.

If you read through my entire post you would know why I think of him as a young Fedorov.

[norrisnick 1]

If you read through my entire post you would know why I think of him as a young Fedorov.

If you read my post you'd realize that you don't know who or what a young Fedorov was.

Selfish "me first" players don't win the Selke. Twice.

[Scarlet_Horses 0]

Personally, I don't care who or what they have. I know when it comes down to it, we'll kick their butt.

Like they say, the Penguins can't fly coz they dont have WINGS..

GO WINGS..

[Anomalously 0]

I guess my estimation of Staal's worth is causing controversy. With a guy like Jordan, you WANT to tie him up for a long time. And do you know how hard it'll be to talk Staal into being an RFA the year before he would become a UFA? What self-respecting agent is going to allow his client to do that? Staal is 19, he'll be 20 on July 1, 2009. Maybe he'll do a 3-year deal now, but why lock him up at $3M/year now when in three years he could cost $7? I think what is more likely is Shero is going to want him signed up until he's a UFA and he'll get something in between ($5M).

The Samuelsson and Carter examples are ludicrous. He led all forwards in SH TOI for the playoffs and led the Penguins forwards in SH TOI/G. Staal was also the most talented guy on their second powerplay [Kronwall, Franzen, Filppula all more talented on the Wings' second powerplay than Sammy].

Staal has been making $2M. Think he's not getting double based on potential and his role on the team? Not when Ryan Whitney [second powerplay D, 9th most minutes on PK on team, 3rd-most minutes among D overall] just signed 6 years, $4M/per.

[edicius 3,269]

When it comes to Malkin, I know I read a quote from him somewhere in which he said that he wasn't going to take a paycut like Sid did and he was going for the max, no compromise. If he holds true to that, I definitely see him being shopped, especially if Hossa signs (and I see him closer to the $7 - 7.5M range, even as a "discount"). That's where I see a bit of the Fedorov comparison (2nd banana, never going to have the real spotlight on the team, etc.), but that's about it.

Fleury's going to be a no-brainer for them to re-sign; whatever he asks for, the Pens will likely pay. Of course, if someone throws a ridiculous offer sheet his way (Edmonton? Toronto? ), I wouldn't be surprised to see them take the draft picks and roll the dice with Conklin and Sabourin, as I don't think there are really any other major names in net out there in free agency. Of course, those compensation picks could always come into play in a trade for a goaltender as well.

Admittedly, I'm rather surprised about Hossa's talk of re-signing, since it was made clear that he was a rental...but then again, Stuart was looking like a rental for us and it's looking like Detroit would really like to keep him in the fray. The playoffs can have a huge affect on a player's mindset (but I'm guessing the Cup combined with the mentality in Detroit doesn't hurt ).

It'll be interesting to see if Therrien is retained though. I know we had rumors of players butting heads with Babcock and we all know how rumors are, but when it comes to Therrien, it wouldn't surprise me if his whiny attitude rubbed some of the more respectable players on the Pens the wrong way. I swear, the man always looked like he was on the verge of tears behind the bench. There's a difference between stoicism and pouting.

[Doggy 130]

In terms of right now ability? You bet.

Both are capable of 20 goals, but not sure bets. Both are reliable defensive players who are not Selke contenders, but are well above average.

The difference is that Samuelsson's value might be at its peak right now, while Staal's is growing rapidly.

If I were comparing Staal to Sammy in terms of overall ability AND potential, I wouldn't have said Staal was worth about $2m per year for a three year deal.

Eva, you've clearly demonstrated you don't know anything about Staal and his role in Pittsburgh. You should quit while you're beind but I know you won't.

Jordan Staal this season was always matched against oppoents top lines. Therrien is good with young players and I think he is being developed well. Jordan Staal will become an elite defensive forward. Perhaps not like Bob Gainey or Guy Carbonneau but I wouldn't be surprised if he did get that good. I've been very impressed by the defensive responsibility and smart decision-making displayed for a 19-year old.

Jordan Staal is a great asset for the Pens. He'll get much more than $2m. Comparing him to Sammy is crazy, man.

[Blood On The Ice 15]

One thing that was discussed more than once the last couple days on XM204, is that the pens have yet to spend to the cap limit in the new cap era. And even if the cap is increased for next year, the Pens will be unable to match the cap. Apparently the Igloo and other revenue areas are unable to make the money to allow the Pens to spend to the cap. This won't change until the new stadium is bulit and that is still a couple years away. If they can resign flower, they might not be able to sign hossa or malone. If they can, sign either or both, there depth will be gone, because thats all they will be able to sign.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

One thing that was discussed more than once the last couple days on XM204, is that the pens have yet to spend to the cap limit in the new cap era. And even if the cap is increased for next year, the Pens will be unable to match the cap. Apparently the Igloo and other revenue areas are unable to make the money to allow the Pens to spend to the cap. This won't change until the new stadium is bulit and that is still a couple years away. If they can resign flower, they might not be able to sign hossa or malone. If they can, sign either or both, there depth will be gone, because thats all they will be able to sign.

Incorrect

The Pens have already committed to spending the full cap in the next 2 years

[chrisdetroit 189]

Damn it. Hossa was their most dangerous forward out there at times. That in itself makes this bad news for us.

Pittsburgh is not going to contend next year at least not in the Finals. As good as they were in the east, they were clearly no match for the Wings. They won 2 1-goal games against us and 1 of those were in triple OT. This series really wasn't as close as the final 4-2 count.

Even if they somehow manage to keep most of their guys, I am not the lease bit worried about the Pens.

Depending what happens in July, the best teams in the league will all once again come from the West. San Jose, Detroit, Dallas.

Maybe San Jose will finally get it done since they dumped the perennial playoff loser in Ron Wilson. Aneheim might be good if they can find somebody that can actually score goals and Neids and Selanne decides to play. Dallas could have a shot with a few more key guys.

In the east - well it really doesn't matter.

[DMAC 25 18]

the pens won't be that good next year i don't think because some of the players won't come back b/c of the coach and they have to many UFA's its just a mess for them right now

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

Pittsburgh is not going to contend next year at least not in the Finals. As good as they were in the east, they were clearly no match for the Wings. They won 2 1-goal games against us and 1 of those were in triple OT. This series really wasn't as close as the final 4-2 count.

I never quite understood this line of thinking....

"This series wasnt as close as the final 4-2 count"

In my opinion (not just regarding this series, but any sporting event), the game/series is EXACTLY as close as it appears....

If Fleury doesnt buttcheek that 3rd goal into the net...is it a 7 game series...is it as close as it seems then?

I dunno...I see this in football all the time..."The Steelers defeated the Bengals 24-20 in a game that wasnt as close as the score would indicate"...wow...the Bengals had the ball..down 4...with 2 minutes left...seemed pretty close to me....

Meh...whatever....IMHO categorizing this series in that manner takes away from how truly great a series it was. Saying this series wasnt close is pure homerism....LOL...but you are certainly entitled to that on your own board.

Kudos to the Wings...they got it done and deserve the cup.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

the pens won't be that good next year i don't think because some of the players won't come back b/c of the coach and they have to many UFA's its just a mess for them right now

God...this is getting tiresome too....

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

I never quite understood this line of thinking....

"This series wasnt as close as the final 4-2 count"

In my opinion (not just regarding this series, but any sporting event), the game/series is EXACTLY as close as it appears....

If Fleury doesnt buttcheek that 3rd goal into the net...is it a 7 game series...is it as close as it seems then?

I dunno...I see this in football all the time..."The Steelers defeated the Bengals 24-20 in a game that wasnt as close as the score would indicate"...wow...the Bengals had the ball..down 4...with 2 minutes left...seemed pretty close to me....

Meh...whatever....IMHO categorizing this series in that manner takes away from how truly great a series it was. Saying this series wasnt close is pure homerism....LOL...but you are certainly entitled to that on your own board.

Kudos to the Wings...they got it done and deserve the cup.

As much as I'd love to support the wings people on here, I have to agree with ThreeRiversFan. Saing the series wasn't close because the Pens wins were in one goal games is just stupid. The wings wins in game 4 and 6 were also 1 goal games, that came down to the wire. This was a close series, and the wings won because they had better team defense. Detroit dominated games 1 and 2, then the Pens came to play and the next 4 games were decided by 1 goal. I'm not trying to take anything away from the wings, because I love them just as much as every other fan, but I don't want to take anything away from our opponents either. The Penguins team we saw in games 3-6 was a better representation of the Pens. They weren't quite as good as us, but they had lots of weapons and were a very good team. I think there is a good chance they'll be in cup contention again next year, it won't be until two years from now that they'll have to give up some big names.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I never quite understood this line of thinking....

"This series wasnt as close as the final 4-2 count"

In my opinion (not just regarding this series, but any sporting event), the game/series is EXACTLY as close as it appears....

If Fleury doesnt buttcheek that 3rd goal into the net...is it a 7 game series...is it as close as it seems then?

If Kronwall didn't shoot the puck off Hall's skate and into the net there wouldn't have been a game 6. I saw that Fleury mistake as evening out the karma- especially after the two completely BS goalie interference calls in OT, the phantom hook by Datsyuk (that lead to a goal, even though replays showed it wasn't even close to being a penalty- the pen player fell into Dats on his own), the two bs calls on Hudler at the end of the game. Thinking back about games 5 and 6 I can say this: never in my life have I seen so many questionable calls made in the final minutes of a potentially cup-clinching game. I watched the games on CBC where they were incredibly Pens biased and even they were shocked at those calls. No matter how biased towards the Crosby show the CBC announcers were they all recognised that the Wings completely dominated the Pens in 5 of the games, with Fleury stealing one of those games too.

That being said- you Pens fans should be far happier now than you were after game 1 and 2. Fluery was amazing- he really impressed me this series. Crosby was relentless- I was especially impressed with his one man show in games 1-3 (even if the Wings did shut him down in games 1 and 2 he was the best Pen on the ice). Staal played fantastic defensive hockey and was pretty physical too. Orpik layed some great checks out there and really stepped his game up.

The Pens deserve real props for coming back to play in games 3-6. They showed lots of guts. But the series was pretty lop-sided towards the Wings if you examine it period by period. Without Fleury the series would've been over in 4 or 5. Fleury was by far the Pens MVP. I'm not saying it wasn't a good series- it was nail-biting at times, and the stress of game 5 probably took a year or two off my life. I'm just saying that overall, the Wings were the dominant team.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Drake_Marcus

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The funny thing is everyone says that the pens are the "team of the future" yet the Wings team is financially structured in a way that their future success, at least for the next 2 or 3 years, may be even more guaranteed then the Pens.

I'll take that one step further and say the Wings future success looks to be great for the next 5 years. There's going to be room for Z's contract after the upcoming season, and with the emergence of Kronwall being an elite Dman in the playoffs, and Rafalski signed for the length he is, the Wings are in great shape. I don't think Lids will play much more (if any) past his new contract that runs through the next two seasons, but guys like Kronwall and Rafalski being locked in (sidenote: how good is Kronner's contract looking right now?) as well as Datsyuk and Cleary and soon to be Z and Franzen, the Wings are just in phenomenal shape.

The Pens have so many questions to answer this summer, and while they'll probably be competitive next year, I question where they'll end up at the end of the next season. Not to be rude, but I just can't see them playing for the Cup again next year given the amount of guys that are UFA's and the raises that are going to be expected.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25