McCarty offered contract

[UKWING 8]

All excellent points.

You want players like Hudler, Kronwall and Datsyuk out there laying huge hits like they did last year? Then have someone who can back them up. Teams are going to be gunning for them during the regular season. It's not like the playoffs, where a dumb retaliation penalty is huge; during the 82 game grind, teams will have nights when they've stopped caring about the score and just want their pound of flesh. The Wings will have a lot of talent the other team's goons can set their sights on.

If the Wings can get Downey (Mac can't fill this role anymore, IMO) to take a two-way contract, I'll be really happy and shut up about this. But they need either Downey or someone else to do this job. I'm talking playing 35 games a year, just a few minutes of ice time per game. The rivalry games against the Western Conference, especially other teams in the Central, will get physical at times.

I'm constantly amazed by how much this part of the game is neglected. People forget so easily. Everyone is pissed when some goon is facewashing Z or taking a run at Lids during the season, but after a successful playoff run, all anyone is looking at is skill again.

BALANCE.

very good post

i certainly feel that downey had a big impact on the mentality of the other players this year. finally pav, z, hudler etc. had someone to watch their back and it resulted in a far more aggressive style of play. especially dats - who would have thought he would lead all wings fowards in hits (in the playoffs) and would be going after guys like malone and roberts when they started to take liberties? no way would that have been the case if it weren't for downey.

we need a guy like him on the roster.

[therock48880 14]

If this is the case, then why did coaches pick McCarty over Downey in the playoffs?

And for the record, I have nothing against Downey whatsoever, just showing that coaches might think that McCarty had or has more to give than Downey, and that the Downey man-love in here gets a little overboard sometimes.

You already know the answer to that SWF. There's no fighting in the playoffs. In the regular season, though, a guy like Downey can be very valuable. For example, the Colorado game when Lappy did his thing to Lids. Downey got even with him. (For those who say McCarty would have done the same thing, Lappy kicked Mac's butt two years ago)

[UKWING 8]

you mean Downey was dumb...and McCarty has the brains enough to pick and choose his times now.

at least downey wasn't dumb enough to ever take 4 minor penalties in 1 game. and at least downey will actually hit people when he is on the ice.

[therock48880 14]

Mac was a defensive nightmare in the playoffs. The most notable being where he iced it twice on the same shift, Babcock even took a time out, and they still got scored on because they had been out there for 2 and a half minutes.

This we agree on. I was in favor of him coming back and finishing his career as a Wing. I was just hoping that last year would have been his last year.

[uk_redwing 495]

you mean Downey was dumb...and McCarty has the brains enough to pick and choose his times now.

And you call Downey dumb with posts like that?

The only time McCarty got into a fight was when we were WINNING. Downey was easily the most disciplined enforcer in the entire NHL last season.

Seriously, I think half the people on this board are confusing the wings with some other sports team with the crap that some people write.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Judging by the hostility of talking smack about McCarty, I'd probably say this is Mac posting as his LGW alias.

You must not have read the whole forum, there are quite a few on both sides. Certainly Mac didn't come in and tear up the rink, but he didn't seem to get burned either. He was a cog. Holland obviously knows his business and who's available. Even if he is swayed by the past no way Babcock who wasn't here is and as was repeatedly pointed out he chose Mac over Downey THIS YEAR. Not even with a summer of conditioning and getting back in the system. I don't see the lose here. We offered him a 2-way. Some theorize he'll get better with a summer. Good theory, we need to see how it goes. But the 2-way gives us maximum flexibility there. It seems like management and the coaches are playing it just fine.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You already know the answer to that SWF. There's no fighting in the playoffs. In the regular season, though, a guy like Downey can be very valuable. For example, the Colorado game when Lappy did his thing to Lids. Downey got even with him. (For those who say McCarty would have done the same thing, Lappy kicked Mac's butt two years ago)

I get it bigtime. I've stated plenty that a guy like Downey is important to a roster and I like having Downey or a guy who plays a similar game where it's largely all/just about fighting/enforcement/hitting. I want BOTH of them on the roster if possible.

To say that Mac was just utter garbage late in the season and in the playoffs though is going off the deep end. He's not going to do much anymore at this day and age, but given his current situation personally and professionally in his career, he did all right given the circumstances/limitations OVERALL in the playoffs.

If Downey could or would have been that much more effective in the playoffs playing a similar game as McCarty, put Downey in then. I just don't think he would've made that much more of a significant difference in the postseason to favor him over Mac.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The Wings need to forget about DMac and Downey and look bigger than that. With 9 scoring forwards, only 3 grinding forwards - none of whom are an intimidating presence - and nothing of note on the back-end outside of Lilja, who again isnt anything scary, they need a full-time figher on their team. With a stacked, skilled offenisve squad, teams are going to be taking every chance to take out one of our skilled guys.

Playing guys like Walker, Torres, Weber, Tootoo, etc 6 times a year, they could really see some injury trouble. Holland already said he thinks the Wings will have targets on their backs as the defending champs. Now its only going to get worse as they're only more skilled and more of a threat to win the league again.

[uk_redwing 495]

The Wings need to forget about DMac and Downey and look bigger than that. With 9 scoring forwards, only 3 grinding forwards - none of whom are an intimidating presence - and nothing of note on the back-end outside of Lilja, who again isnt anything scary, they need a full-time figher on their team. With a stacked, skilled offenisve squad, teams are going to be taking every chance to take out one of our skilled guys.

Playing guys like Walker, Torres, Weber, Tootoo, etc 6 times a year, they could really see some injury trouble. Holland already said he thinks the Wings will have targets on their backs as the defending champs. Now its only going to get worse as they're only more skilled and more of a threat to win the league again.

Why do so many people think Downey isnt intimidating? Hes only 6 foot yet is 220lbs...hes loaded with muscle and can go with the top heavies...I wouldnt want him coming after me.

[Zion 93]

I agree with almost everything you said, but the wings fan in me wants him to get out of debt. He showed a willingness to crash the net which was vital for Helm and Hudler's game.

The thing I have to disagree with you is calling Mccarty a drug addict. While I wouldnt put Darren past it, is there any proof that he was formerly addicted to anything. I have never heard of anything and if your proof is he smoked a blunt after a grinder concert or something well thats not a big deal. Kenny Holland and Mike Illitch are two very smart men, and if they thought Mccarty's habbits would hurt the team, they would not have brought him back. Also people can change. My Uncle was a former Oxycotton abuser, and I can pretty much Guarntee now taht he has his life toghtehr, he makes more money than you, has a hotter wife, and is in better shape.

Cause Downey sucks? Being better than Downey skill wise isnt saying much. Sorry to burst people's bubbles but due to the instigator rule, Enforcers are kinda useless unless you have a pest. And before some dumbs*** brings up "BUT DOWNEY BEAT UP THE AVALANCHE GUY!!!" answer me this. Did Downey beating up Lapeirre have any affect on Lidstrom's injury at all? Did it make him heal faster? Was Lidstrom so inspired by Downeys dedication to fisticuffs that he tried extra hard to make the injury go away?

Worst post ever.

You already know the answer to that SWF. There's no fighting in the playoffs. In the regular season, though, a guy like Downey can be very valuable. For example, the Colorado game when Lappy did his thing to Lids. Downey got even with him. (For those who say McCarty would have done the same thing, Lappy kicked Mac's butt two years ago)

Didn't watch the 2nd round against Colorado? Wings up 4-0 and Cody McCormick steps up. What happens if no one squares off with the kid, and he takes a run at Dats or Z and possibly injures them?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Why do so many people think Downey isnt intimidating? Hes only 6 foot yet is 220lbs...hes loaded with muscle and can go with the top heavies...I wouldnt want him coming after me.

Do you know how many enforcers in this league are bigger, tougher and better fighters than Downey is? Franzen is 6'3, 220 and loaded with muscle too. Do you see folks being scared of his fists? No. Its all about reputation. And Downey is not a guy whos name on paper makes you think twice.

[uk_redwing 495]

Do you know how many enforcers in this league are bigger, tougher and better fighters than Downey is? Franzen is 6'3, 220 and loaded with muscle too. Do you see folks being scared of his fists? No. Its all about reputation. And Downey is not a guy whos name on paper makes you think twice.

He is 3 inches taller so obviously is loaded with far less muscle than Downey. Im sure Downey would make someone on the avs think twice...and we all know who they just signed.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Do you know how many enforcers in this league are bigger, tougher and better fighters than Downey is? Franzen is 6'3, 220 and loaded with muscle too. Do you see folks being scared of his fists? No. Its all about reputation. And Downey is not a guy whos name on paper makes you think twice.

Ryan Flinn? Andre Roy? Francis Lessard?

Legit HW's are hard to find. I think those 3 up top are available..

People say Boogaard is a goon with no skill, I've been watching him on the Ducks/Wild replays on NHL Network, They had him playing on the PP, Top Line.. And he played very well IMO, cycls the puck, created opportunities.. *this has nothing to do with anything, Im just saying it *

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Ryan Flinn? Andre Roy? Francis Lessard?

Legit HW's are hard to find. I think those 3 up top are available..

People say Boogaard is a goon with no skill, I've been watching him on the Ducks/Wild replays on NHL Network, They had him playing on the PP, Top Line.. And he played very well IMO, cycls the puck, created opportunities.. *this has nothing to do with anything, Im just saying it *

I heard somewhere that Melrose wanted to bring Roy back, but I don't know what his current status is since they added Koci. Roy at this point is a more talented player than Mac or Downey, and is a better fighter than either.

Ryan Flinn is pretty much finished in the NHL, and Lessard is a nutcase who Holland would never think about signing.

Also, what is the status on D.J. King? As far as I know, he's still on the Blues but I wasn't sure.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Yah King's still on the Blues, he's a safe bet to stay there IMO, Janssen might be the odd man out if any..

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Ryan Flinn? Andre Roy? Francis Lessard?

Legit HW's are hard to find. I think those 3 up top are available..

People say Boogaard is a goon with no skill, I've been watching him on the Ducks/Wild replays on NHL Network, They had him playing on the PP, Top Line.. And he played very well IMO, cycls the puck, created opportunities.. *this has nothing to do with anything, Im just saying it *

So we can only sign players from free agency? My bad. I forgot there was a restriction against trading players, especially when you have a crowded roster.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

So we can only sign players from free agency? My bad. I forgot there was a restriction against trading players, especially when you have a crowded roster.

Trade Lidstrom for Boogaard. That would clear up more cap space and get us that enforcer we all wanted.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The Wings need to forget about DMac and Downey and look bigger than that. With 9 scoring forwards, only 3 grinding forwards - none of whom are an intimidating presence - and nothing of note on the back-end outside of Lilja, who again isnt anything scary, they need a full-time figher on their team. With a stacked, skilled offenisve squad, teams are going to be taking every chance to take out one of our skilled guys.

Playing guys like Walker, Torres, Weber, Tootoo, etc 6 times a year, they could really see some injury trouble. Holland already said he thinks the Wings will have targets on their backs as the defending champs. Now its only going to get worse as they're only more skilled and more of a threat to win the league again.

That's a good point. The Wings physical forwards are Draper, Maltby, Cleary and Franzen. Downey and a healthy McCarty would be too, but wont see much ice. Columbus's top 2 lines are full of physical players that can also score. St Louis are a joke, but a cheapshotters too. Chicago has a speedy physical defence. Nashville have good 2 way players, that are physical. The Wings could benefit from signing a guy like Peca or Nolan, and trading a less physical guy like Samuelsson, nothing against Samuelsson I'm not bashing him this time, he's just expendable and Peca and Nolan bring the physical and the scoring.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Trade Lidstrom for Boogaard. That would clear up more cap space and get us that enforcer we all wanted.

I was thinking more along the lines of trading Andreas "insurance policy" Lilja...

[YoungGuns1340 1]

That's a good point. The Wings physical forwards are Draper, Maltby, Cleary and Franzen. Downey and a healthy McCarty would be too, but wont see much ice. Columbus's top 2 lines are full of physical players that can also score. St Louis are a joke, but a cheapshotters too. Chicago has a speedy physical defence. Nashville have good 2 way players, that are physical. The Wings could benefit from signing a guy like Peca or Nolan, and trading a less physical guy like Samuelsson, nothing against Samuelsson I'm not bashing him this time, he's just expendable and Peca and Nolan bring the physical and the scoring.

Its possible that Neil might be on his way out of Ottawa...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Its possible that Neil might be on his way out of Ottawa...

Heard that rumor the other day, Neil is one of the best grinders in the league for my money. He's alot like Raffi Torres, Ottawa need defenceman and we do have a surplus...

[YoungGuns1340 1]

He is 3 inches taller so obviously is loaded with far less muscle than Downey. Im sure Downey would make someone on the avs think twice...and we all know who they just signed.

Again, its all about reputation. If youre going to have a guy that plays full time, he better be able to. In other words, a lot better than Downey. And if youre going to have a healthy scratch or somebody wasting away in the minors, he better be a guy that instills fear in players on paper alone. And by that I mean, if the Wings had a name like Carcillo or Barch or Brashear on the roster, but was a healthy scratch, another teams agitator is still going to be well aware of the fact that if he does something of consequence, he'll have to answer to the Red Wings enforcer the next time they meet.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Do you know how many enforcers in this league are bigger, tougher and better fighters than Downey is? Franzen is 6'3, 220 and loaded with muscle too. Do you see folks being scared of his fists? No. Its all about reputation. And Downey is not a guy whos name on paper makes you think twice.

You are right, his name on paper isn't enough. But when he drops the gloves and pummels someone they get the point. Or even if he goes toe to toe and it is a draw, people get the idea.

Downey knew when to fight and when not to fight. He never backed down from anyone and always held his own. He was called the perfect teammate on many occasions. I would LOVE to have him on this team.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Heard that rumor the other day, Neil is one of the best grinders in the league for my money. He's alot like Raffi Torres, Ottawa need defenceman and we do have a surplus...

Exactly. And what they're looking at are bottom-pair Dman with reasonable contracts.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Heard that rumor the other day, Neil is one of the best grinders in the league for my money. He's alot like Raffi Torres, Ottawa need defenceman and we do have a surplus...

I'd love to have Neil, especially since Tucker and Avery are now both in the West. He's not a heavy, and he did get beat up by Lilja last year, but that's nothing to be ashamed of. Neil would be a good addition to our team.