Todd Bertuzzi

[therock48880 14]

My perspective on the Moore incident is a little different. First of all, before someone gets offended by this, NO ONE DESERVES WHAT HAPPENED TO MOORE.

Having said that, Moore was an ass as a player. He was a cheapshot artist and had tried to take Naslund's knee out in the previous game with the Canucks. (That doesn't justify what happened to him and I'm not pretending that it does). If we think back, though, Claudia cheapshotted Draper, and then McCarty got retribution. Techinically, though, McCarty's pummeling of Lemiux could have caused serious injury too. The guy deserved an ass kicking, but to continually pummel him when he was on the ice could have caused serious injury. What if Lemiux would have had a broken neck or something that would have ended his career as a result of Mac kicking his ass? Would people feel that same way about him as they do Bertuzzi? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED seeing Claudia get pummeled and I hate that Moore had his career ended. I just can't help but wonder how people would feel if Lemiux had been seriously injured.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Is past his short-lived prime, ***** where it matters, deteriorated hands and scoring touch, gooning went too far, now he is gun shy and the few months he wore the Winged Wheel made me physically ill...

... in otherwords, see avatar <<<

[#19forPresident! 1]

I think that he can contribute in strange ways. He can get the team fried up, but never, and I mean never do I wanna see this guy in a Wings uniform again.

Your thoughts??

Past his prime....... In my opinion he mentally stalled out after the Moore incident, it screwed him up psychologically and he was never the same, couple that with his back problems and I don't think he will ever realize the full power forward potential he had earlier in his career.

Of course he could prove me wrong and have an amazing season with Calgary, but personally as a conference opponent and a regular playoff opponent it didn't bother me at all to hear about that signing because he has been dead weight on the ice recently for the most part.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

My perspective on the Moore incident is a little different. First of all, before someone gets offended by this, NO ONE DESERVES WHAT HAPPENED TO MOORE.

Having said that, Moore was an ass as a player. He was a cheapshot artist and had tried to take Naslund's knee out in the previous game with the Canucks. (That doesn't justify what happened to him and I'm not pretending that it does). If we think back, though, Claudia cheapshotted Draper, and then McCarty got retribution. Techinically, though, McCarty's pummeling of Lemiux could have caused serious injury too. The guy deserved an ass kicking, but to continually pummel him when he was on the ice could have caused serious injury. What if Lemiux would have had a broken neck or something that would have ended his career as a result of Mac kicking his ass? Would people feel that same way about him as they do Bertuzzi? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED seeing Claudia get pummeled and I hate that Moore had his career ended. I just can't help but wonder how people would feel if Lemiux had been seriously injured.

Solid overall perspective on the situations there and with everybody involved...Moore, Bertuzzi, Lemieux, McCarty, all of them.

I don't really remember the whole drama the Vancover-Colorado game before the Bertuzzi-Moore incident. If what you described was true, yes Moore deserved some retribution. But, as we all know, the next game between the two teams it totally went overboard and Bertuzzi went too far. Is he truly sorry for what he did and is just trying to move on as best he can? I think so, but consider that (1) I'm not a big fan one way or the other of either the Canucks or Avalanche and (2) overall I'm usually a pretty low-key/mum kinda person where I don't really show much emotions or one way or the other, so I have never really held any outrage or hatred towards Bertuzzi or Moore past/present and probably future. I'm not trying to stick up for Bertuzzi and/or Moore, just somehow want both parties to be able to be at peace with all of this whenever they can and move on from it (while not forgetting obviously).

What Lemieux did to Draper back in 1996 was definitely wrong as well. And Lemieux did deserve retribution to some degree as well and eventually got it. Did McCarty's emotions get the best of him though while Lemieux was turtling and could he have severely broke his neck or something just as bad? I think you could easily make a case for it that and I never really thought of it that way until now. Although consider that I disliked the Avs a bit more during the rivalry years, was less mature as a teen obviously, and Lemieux just rubs me the wrong way, and not just because of the Draper incident or that ZOMG I'M A BIG WINGS FAN. I respect that he was a helluva playoff performer, an intense and hard hitter, but something tells me that he'd pull the same type of stunt in a heartbeat, regardless of player or team. I'd love to be wrong about that though.

[Echolalia 2,961]

My perspective on the Moore incident is a little different. First of all, before someone gets offended by this, NO ONE DESERVES WHAT HAPPENED TO MOORE.

Having said that, Moore was an ass as a player. He was a cheapshot artist and had tried to take Naslund's knee out in the previous game with the Canucks. (That doesn't justify what happened to him and I'm not pretending that it does). If we think back, though, Claudia cheapshotted Draper, and then McCarty got retribution. Techinically, though, McCarty's pummeling of Lemiux could have caused serious injury too. The guy deserved an ass kicking, but to continually pummel him when he was on the ice could have caused serious injury. What if Lemiux would have had a broken neck or something that would have ended his career as a result of Mac kicking his ass? Would people feel that same way about him as they do Bertuzzi? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED seeing Claudia get pummeled and I hate that Moore had his career ended. I just can't help but wonder how people would feel if Lemiux had been seriously injured.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

[DaKineMaui 8]

Not too much detail here, but just thought I'd throw it out here for the above comparisons:

I believe Moore had already dropped his gloves earlier in that game....."Want it? Come get it." type of thing. And pretty much won the fight no?

Claudette? Not so much. And also, as far as the turtle thing? (And THIS WILL NOT BE POPULAR, and I'm not trying to prevoke), but I think Mac hurt him pretty bad on that initial whack.........

Just for what it's worth. Which is prolly very little.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

My perspective on the Moore incident is a little different. First of all, before someone gets offended by this, NO ONE DESERVES WHAT HAPPENED TO MOORE.

Having said that, Moore was an ass as a player. He was a cheapshot artist and had tried to take Naslund's knee out in the previous game with the Canucks. (That doesn't justify what happened to him and I'm not pretending that it does). If we think back, though, Claudia cheapshotted Draper, and then McCarty got retribution. Techinically, though, McCarty's pummeling of Lemiux could have caused serious injury too. The guy deserved an ass kicking, but to continually pummel him when he was on the ice could have caused serious injury. What if Lemiux would have had a broken neck or something that would have ended his career as a result of Mac kicking his ass? Would people feel that same way about him as they do Bertuzzi? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED seeing Claudia get pummeled and I hate that Moore had his career ended. I just can't help but wonder how people would feel if Lemiux had been seriously injured.

Great post. Exactly how I feel, people look and see "Oh, Steve Moore had his career ended by Bertuzzi, BERTUZZI MUST BE PUNISHED!!" But do not see that Moore was an assclown. He concussed Naslund with a cheap, late hit in an earlier game. Then like you said, tried to take out his knees. He was a dirty player, that brought nothing to Colorado but trying to injure players. People hate Jackman, and Pronger and the list goes on and on, but they contribute to there teams. Moore didnt. Bertuzzi asked Moore 4 times, to fight him, before the incident. But he took the "New NHL" route and tried to draw the penalty, and look what it got him. You make another good point about the Lemieux/McCarty incident that I was actually thinking about the other day. If D-mac socks Lemieux from behind, and hurts Lemieux and ends his career, do people think McCarty is a bad player? They love him now because of it, and I'd still love him either way, but that's just a good example. Moore deserved to have retribution taken on him, but instead, all he had to do was take a beating, ala Lemieux, and everything would've been fine. Instead, Bertuzzi socked him from behind and ended his career. It was unfortunate, but it could've been avoided.

[therock48880 14]

Solid overall perspective on the situations there and with everybody involved...Moore, Bertuzzi, Lemieux, McCarty, all of them.

I don't really remember the whole drama the Vancover-Colorado game before the Bertuzzi-Moore incident. If what you described was true, yes Moore deserved some retribution. But, as we all know, the next game between the two teams it totally went overboard and Bertuzzi went too far. Is he truly sorry for what he did and is just trying to move on as best he can? I think so, but consider that (1) I'm not a big fan one way or the other of either the Canucks or Avalanche and (2) overall I'm usually a pretty low-key/mum kinda person where I don't really show much emotions or one way or the other, so I have never really held any outrage or hatred towards Bertuzzi or Moore past/present and probably future. I'm not trying to stick up for Bertuzzi and/or Moore, just somehow want both parties to be able to be at peace with all of this whenever they can and move on from it (while not forgetting obviously).

What Lemieux did to Draper back in 1996 was definitely wrong as well. And Lemieux did deserve retribution to some degree as well and eventually got it. Did McCarty's emotions get the best of him though while Lemieux was turtling and could he have severely broke his neck or something just as bad? I think you could easily make a case for it that and I never really thought of it that way until now. Although consider that I disliked the Avs a bit more during the rivalry years, was less mature as a teen obviously, and Lemieux just rubs me the wrong way, and not just because of the Draper incident or that ZOMG I'M A BIG WINGS FAN. I respect that he was a helluva playoff performer, an intense and hard hitter, but something tells me that he'd pull the same type of stunt in a heartbeat, regardless of player or team. I'd love to be wrong about that though.

He gave Naslund a cheapshot that resulted in a concussion and then he went knee to knee with him later. That's what caused the "bounty" on his head. Another side point to keep in mind, is that the idiot Crawford knew about the bounty and still kept putting Bertuzzi out there against Moore during a blowout game. There's plenty of blame to go around on it, and Bertuzzi deserves his share, I'm not disputing it.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Techinically, though, McCarty's pummeling of Lemiux could have caused serious injury too. The guy deserved an ass kicking, but to continually pummel him when he was on the ice could have caused serious injury. What if Lemiux would have had a broken neck or something that would have ended his career as a result of Mac kicking his ass? Would people feel that same way about him as they do Bertuzzi? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED seeing Claudia get pummeled and I hate that Moore had his career ended. I just can't help but wonder how people would feel if Lemiux had been seriously injured.

Is this a joke? McCarty punched him. When exactly do you get a career ending injury from that. People fight all the time and no one ever asks "but what if they got injured". Lemuiex had a choice to defend himself, but instead decided to turtle and attepmt to protect himself. McCarty didn't ram his head into the boards, or knock him out then proceed to punch him.

There is no way you can compare those two events. McCarty's was retribution. Bertuzzi's was sadistic revenge.

Also, Lemuiex was a dirty player. He punched Kozlov in the side of the head through a ref in 96 after a scrum involving neither of them.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Doc Holiday

[Echolalia 2,961]

Is this a joke? McCarty punched him. When exactly do you get a career ending injury from that. People fight all the time and no one ever asks "but what if they got injured". Lemuiex had a choice to defend himself, but instead decided to turtle and attepmt to protect himself. McCarty didn't ram his head into the boards, or knock him out then proceed to punch him.

There is no way you can compare those two events. McCarty's was retribution. Bertuzzi's was sadistic revenge.

Also, Lemuiex was a dirty player. He punched Kozlov in the side of the head through a ref in 96 after a scrum involving neither of them.

I don't think Lemieux had much of a chance to defend himself. McCarty essentially sucker-punched him right off the bat and Lemieux fell on one hit. He never had time to get back up because McCarty was already on top of him. The Bertuzzi incident was similar, not exact, but similar, and Bert is a hell of a lot bigger than McCarty is. If Dmac had Bertuzzi's arms and weight on him and attacked Lemieux the way he did, Lemieux may very well have been taken off the ice with an injury.

Also: yes Lemieux was a dirty player, but so was Moore. Very much so.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I don't think Lemieux had much of a chance to defend himself. McCarty essentially sucker-punched him right off the bat and Lemieux fell on one hit. He never had time to get back up because McCarty was already on top of him. The Bertuzzi incident was similar, not exact, but similar, and Bert is a hell of a lot bigger than McCarty is. If Dmac had Bertuzzi's arms and weight on him and attacked Lemieux the way he did, Lemieux may very well have been taken off the ice with an injury.

Also: yes Lemieux was a dirty player, but so was Moore. Very much so.

McCarty never put his weight on Lemuiex. He grabbed him by the collar and punched him repeatedly. With Bertuzzi the same deal would have happened. Lemuiex would be badly bloodied up but wouldn't have any neck inujuries or lasting effects. Completely different.

[Echolalia 2,961]

McCarty never put his weight on Lemuiex. He grabbed him by the collar and punched him repeatedly. With Bertuzzi the same deal would have happened. Lemuiex would be badly bloodied up but wouldn't have any neck inujuries or lasting effects. Completely different.

Go on youtube and watch the Bertuzzi incident closely. After the initial punch that Bertuzzi landed on Moore (before anyone was laying on the ice, btw), you see Moore's arms and head go limp as if he just lost consciousness. It is at this time that Moore falls forward, with no severe driving force into the ice from Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi was holding onto him, but not unlike the way many other fights end up with one player being taken down to the ice. The only difference in this case is that Moore was already unconscious at that point, so he had no way to brace for the impending fall. Then after the fall 300 other guys jump in so all sorts of mess ends up happening, but the point I'm trying to drive through is that from the video, after the 1st punch occurred, there is 0 voluntary movement observed from Moore. A conscious player would, at the very least, turtle up to brace for the fury, ala Lemieux.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Go on youtube and watch the Bertuzzi incident closely. After the initial punch that Bertuzzi landed on Moore (before anyone was laying on the ice, btw), you see Moore's arms and head go limp as if he just lost consciousness. It is at this time that Moore falls forward, with no severe driving force into the ice from Bertuzzi.

We can only disagree on that point, because I see Bert drive into him. Watch his left arm.

Bertuzzi was holding onto him, but not unlike the way many other fights end up with one player being taken down to the ice. The only difference in this case is that Moore was already unconscious at that point, so he had no way to brace for the impending fall. Then after the fall 300 other guys jump in so all sorts of mess ends up happening, but the point I'm trying to drive through is that from the video, after the 1st punch occurred, there is 0 voluntary movement observed from Moore. A conscious player would, at the very least, turtle up to brace for the fury, ala Lemieux.

Lemieux fell on his back and McCarty didn't fall on top of him or bring him down. McCarty punched him (Lemieux saw him coming too) and did only that. If Lemieux was unconscious we could compare, but he wasn't, and never risked any serious injury, so what is the similarity here?

[Skiing - Puck 0]

Lemieux fell on his back and McCarty didn't fall on top of him or bring him down. McCarty punched him (Lemieux saw him coming too) and did only that. If Lemieux was unconscious we could compare, but he wasn't, and never risked any serious injury, so what is the similarity here?

Honestly, McCarty broke free of the linesman and hit Lemieux with a blind side sucker punch. Lemieux only saw the hit coming after the punch was already thrown, he had no chace to prepare for the punch let alone defend himself. McCarty could have, but didn't, seriouly injuried Lemieux. BUt mand I still love that fight.

Watch around the 3:44 mark in the video for the best replay of McCarty and Lemieux

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[T.Low 1,011]

We can only disagree on that point, because I see Bert drive into him. Watch his left arm.

Lemieux fell on his back and McCarty didn't fall on top of him or bring him down. McCarty punched him (Lemieux saw him coming too) and did only that. If Lemieux was unconscious we could compare, but he wasn't, and never risked any serious injury, so what is the similarity here?

Its painfully obvious to me, Bertuzzi drove him into the ice.

Moore's hit on Naslund wasn't that bad. Yes it deserved a good hit or a good smackin around but not a couple of different rounds here and there. Yes it was a head shot, but wind the ******* thing back in when going thru the nuetral zone! Just another case of the Canucks identity crisis.

This is the only video I could find, obviously produced by a Bertuzzi supporter. Living near Vancouver, I've seen the video a thousand times. Nazzie was overextended in the nuetral zone going for the puck and tell me Kronner, Drake, Stuart, Vladdy is his day, and many others would not have attempted the same hit. Seriously, what was so bad about this hit? ****** bag or not, what was so bad about this particular hit?

The fact of the matter is , they tried going after Moore earlier, it didn't quite work, and they were getting their asses kicked, so they needed something to rally behind and Crawford and Bertuzzi thought the Moore hit only Nazzie was all they really had, so play the Moore card again and maybe it will spark our team. It was lame, and turned out disastrous for more than just Moore. The entire Canucks orgaization is embarrassed by it, it was a turning point for them. Nazzie, Morrison, Bertuzzi line struck fear into the hearts of Detroiters before this happenned.

Its been six years since Bertuzzi was great. He had more "great" time and at a "greater" level than most NHL'ers. He'll never be great again.

And BTW; a good shoulder hit means that the shoulder makes contact first, and the power comes from the elbow following thru. You can hardly shoulder soemone without the elbow flying up afterward. There is a big difference between hitting someone with a flying elbow to the head, and the elbow following thru after a good shoulder hit. Thats why Moore's hit wasn't that bad. His elbow is following thru, he didn't use it as the weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKeXMugPZVA

Edit: IF that hit by Moore had been on, say, Stevie Y, instead of Naslund, you can believe Stevie Y would not have been sitting there at center ice waiting for the trianer to come out and dab him with a wash cloth. HE would have made his way to the bench one way or another.

Edited July 14, 2008 by T.Low

[Doc Holiday 0]

I never did think that hit was an elbow. Naslunds face was right where his elbow is supposed to be, no matter what he did he couldn't have stopped his elbow from making contact with his face. He was just very low when he got hit. I never thought it was a dirty hit and I really don't think Bertuzzi's sucker punch (if that is all he did) is justified from that.

[T.Low 1,011]

I never did think that hit was an elbow. Naslunds face was right where his elbow is supposed to be, no matter what he did he couldn't have stopped his elbow from making contact with his face. He was just very low when he got hit. I never thought it was a dirty hit and I really don't think Bertuzzi's sucker punch (if that is all he did) is justified from that.

And they were both going for the puck, it was a foregone conclusion that there would be a collison of some sort. Moore was in the better position, Nazzie was stretched out and left himself exposed. Moore tucked and tried to explode.

I posted somwhere earlier, too bad Bertuzzi didn't learn how to chase someone down from Probert. Just turn the guy toward you. Whatch the end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Va5JB-5sU

[Doc Holiday 0]

And they were both going for the puck, it was a foregone conclusion that there would be a collison of some sort. Moore was in the better position, Nazzie was stretched out and left himself exposed. Moore tucked and tried to explode.

I posted somwhere earlier, too bad Bertuzzi didn't learn how to chase someone down from Probert. Just turn the guy toward you. Whatch the end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Va5JB-5sU

Well at least Roenick entertained the idea of fighting Probert. Bertuzzi was chasing a fish that didn't want to bite.