Top 10 Red Wings of the Last 15 years?

[The Noodle 39 14]

1. Yzerman

(Insterting space out of respect for Stevie)

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Larionov

6. Coffey

7. Holmstrom

8. Murphy

9. Datsyuk

10. Zetterberg

Edited July 17, 2008 by The Noodle 39

[norrisnick 1]

He scored 20 points in 4 consecutive playoffs (95, 96, 97, 98) and 19 in 2002. If you look at the production those years, if you look at talent, Fedorov probably wins it (Yzerman wasn't a slouch either). Fedorov was always a playoff performer, always played when it mattered.

norrisnick -- to say we wouldn't get out of the first round in 2002 without Yzerman is silly. The reason [as I see it] Detroit had troubles in the first round was because the Wings locked up the President's Trophy in March and didn't need to have that drive down the stretch. That team was talented enough to win, just as the team this year was talented enough to win without Yzerman. In 97, 98, we probably needed Yzerman, Fedorov, and Lidstrom to win those.

Last, betterREDthandead, it is hard to argue that Datsyuk's contributions in 2002 make him so much worthy to be above Draper's "long-term contribution" but Z can't make the list. Z has consistently been better in the playoffs (2 fewer points in 20 fewer games), just as good defensively, with pretty much equitable PPG in the regular season. I'd like to hear your rationale.

Did you miss the 1st round that year? Losing the first two games at home? Needing a fluke goal in game 3? Gave a big speech before game 3? Stevie had 3 goals and 6 assists against Vancouver. We don't make it out of the 1st round without him.

[norrisnick 1]

It must be hard for you to speak with your lips glued to Lidstrom's ass. Give me a freaking break.

Stevie is more beloved and rightfully so. But if you think from the mid 90s and beyond that Yzerman was better or more important than Lidstrom you're out of mind.

[sjradio 0]

My take

1. Yzerman (I know he doesn't have the numbers, but playing through what he's had to endure is #1 in my book)

2. Lidstrom (Can't argue with the type of hardware he's collected)

3. Fedorov (I might have had him higher if not for the holdout season in 97-98)

4. Zetterberg (He has Sergei's skill with the puck, but his best days are still to come)

5. Shanahan (A true power forward, I think was the reason for the cup wins in 1997 and 2002.)

6. Datsyuk (I would have had him higher if not for some very bad playoff years after the cup in 2002)

7. Ciccarelli (I know we didn't win a cup with him, but the power play numbers were good)

8. Osgood (even though we did win the cup in 97, I still thought he should have played in the playoffs)

9. Vernon (my view on him changed after the beat down of Patrick Roy)

10.Draper (Best faceoff man, excellent Penalty killer, the top "role player" on any team)

[norrisnick 1]

You need to settle down there, boy. You might notice I actually had Yzerman at #2. You're putting words in my mouth and getting all pissy about it. Forget it. I just thought you were giving the championship credit to Lidstrom and Fedorov. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have interpreted it that way. This is all very arguable and pointless to get mad about. I stand by what I said though.

Calmer than you are.

Where did I say you had Stevie at #1?

It's an online hockey forum. It's all pointless. And I sit by what I said.

[Doggy 130]

Lol. You're not trying anymore either hey?

[Opie 308]

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Osgood

6. Zetterberg

7. Datsyuk

8. Murphy

9. Doug Brown

10. Holmstrom

I absolutely loved Dougie Brown!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Cheli

4. Shanny

5. Datsyuk

6. Zetterberg

7. The Professor, Igor Larionov

8. Osgood

9. Holmstrom

10. DOUGIE BROWN!!!!!!

[betterREDthandead 58]

Last, betterREDthandead, it is hard to argue that Datsyuk's contributions in 2002 make him so much worthy to be above Draper's "long-term contribution" but Z can't make the list. Z has consistently been better in the playoffs (2 fewer points in 20 fewer games), just as good defensively, with pretty much equitable PPG in the regular season. I'd like to hear your rationale.

Datsyuk has been around longer and gotten hurt less. As I see it Datsyuk has had four seasons of full-on, mostly full-health, superstar years, starting with 30 goals at age 25. Zetterberg has had two. He was brilliant in '06-'07 but missed a quarter of the season. And his injury history delayed his development a bit.

Also, Selke Trophy. Actually I think Z should have won it, but the question is "top Red Wings" which is way open to interpretation, so I think the guys who actually bring in the hardware should get the consideration.

If you want to nitpick and think Draper should be ahead of Datsyuk on my list based on my criteria, I won't argue. But when I compared guys for the last two slots - Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kozlov, Maltby, Lapointe, Draper - I think Datsyuk and Draper are the two that stand out to me.

Edit: Ask this question again in a few years for, say, the first 15 years of the new century, and I think Z will outshine Datsyuk. In fact I think he's the better player right now. Body of work for now goes to Datsyuk though.

[egroen 384]

Lidstrom (if it's only past 15 years he has been #1 w/o a doubt)

Yzerman (intangibles easily place him above Fedorov)

Fedorov (statistically better than Yzerman during the period, but just... not Stevie)

Shanahan (missing piece to the Stanley Cup)

Larionov (always a playoff performer)

Osgood (easily the most important goalie over the past 15 years)

Draper (shut down forward extraordinaire)

Datsyuk (only two years of relevant playoffs, but an integral part of team for 6 years now)

Zetterberg (one less Cup than Datsyuk, low on list as he is here only 5 years)

Konstantinov (integral part of '97 Cup run; integral part of '98 Cup run)

Holmstrom

Chelios

Murphy

Hasek

Brown

McCarty

Kozlov

Fetisov

Coffey

Cicarelli

Sheppard

Maltby

Edited July 17, 2008 by egroen

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

Here's my top ten of red wings who've I think had the most influence over the past two decades (and in the case of Stevie going back to the '80's)

Yzerman

Lidstrom

Fedorov

Konstantinov

Holmstrom

Osgood

Draper

Zetterberg

Datsyuk

[CrossCheck24 2]

I think that guys like Draper, Maltby and DMac are the guys who bought into the work ethic, and team over individual mentallity that Yzerman and Bowman were trying to instill. I don't see Federov, (I may be wrong) as one who bought into that culture.

Someone brought up that he would be higher on their list if he didn't hold out, and I think thats pretty crazy, over 15 years, you are dropping him because of under 1/30th of the time he didn't play. I would drop him because he left 5 years ago, and hasn't been here for 1/3 of the time this thread is discussing.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

what the crap, I still missed a red wing. Only named 9. oh well. I'll stick Hasek in there for him causing a sensation with his unique playing style hes kind of contraversial and then he led the wings to the 2002 stanley cup. He's been an influence no doubt.

[therock48880 14]

Some very interesting lists so far. If we're talking about the last 15 years, that would take us to 93. Since Yzerman hasn't played all of the 15 years, I think that may give Lidstrom the nod at number 1. Then I'd go with Yzerman followed by Fedorov. It cracks me up that some people are putting him so low. I've been watching old Wing's games and he was absolutely dominant. Even in the 02 Cup run it's possible the Wings don't beat Vancouver without Fedorov's contributions. But I think the most amazing thing of all that I have seen on these lists is the omission of Vladdy. For 6 seasons he was the most dominant d-man the Wings had. The guy was a PLUS 60 in 1996. So, here's my list:

1. Lidstrom

2. Yzerman

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Vladdy

6. Datsyuk

7. Z

8. Igor

9. Osgood

10. Draper

[Valas19 50]

Calmer than you are.

Where did I say you had Stevie at #1?

It's an online hockey forum. It's all pointless. And I sit by what I said.

Any Big Lebowski references always make me burst out laughing.

[Reds4Life 51]

Lidstrom

Yzerman

Fedorov

Shanahan

Larionov

Osgood

Datsyuk

Draper

Konstantinov

Zetterberg

[Valas19 50]

...I would have to put Ray Sheppard in their somewhere, he was a 50 goal scorer here...

...problem is their are TOO many great Red Wings of the past 15 years! Ciccarelli is another one. Sure I know you are just looking for the top 10, but I think for offensive numbers, Ray Sheppard should be there. Maybe omit Draper, put him at 11 or 12...

...and as much as well ALL love Vladdy and have an emotional spot for him in our hearts, I think Larry Murphy would rank in the top 10 Red Wings before Vladdy (in comapring D-Men.)

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Shanahan

5. Osgood

6. Zetterberg

7. Datsyuk

8. Murphy

9. Doug Brownov

10. Holmstrom

...it's tough to rank 10, if you go by all your requirements sure it's a little easier because of some of the players longevity, but just as important Drapers defensive skills were imparative to this teams success, so was Brett Hull's and Luc Robitaille's offensive skills, along with Ray Sheppard. Now if you factor in JUST the playoffs, then you get a whole new list because you'd have to add McCarty with is knack for scoring in the playoffs, it is so difficult, so I went with just general production and importance regular season and playoff...

(11. Ciccarelli 12. Sheppard 13. Larionov 14. Kozlov 15, 16, 17, 18... SHEESH! SEE WHAT I MEAN! )

Fixed.

[stevie for president 42]

Well its top red wings and that doesnt limit it to just players so this is my list

1.) Scotty Bowman- He took us from perennial disappointment to the finals in 2 seasons, and never looked back

2.) Mike Ilitch- We went from Dead things to Hockeytown. And in the last 15 years, red sox to yankees.

3.) Steve Yzerman- Statistically he shouldnt be the highest ranked player, but his leadership and perseverence set a standard that exists even after he retired

4.) Nicklas Lidstrom- arguably the best player in red wings history and #2 behind #4 bobby orr for best dman of all time

5.) Sergei Fedorov- You can hate his off ice antics, but on the ice he was the most feared scorer in the 90s

6.) Brendan Shanahan- he brought that grit and that little bit extra to take us over the hump. 2 cups in his first 2 years is no coincidence

7.) Ken Holland- Hes usually wont roll the dice, but hes made a habit of filling in spots when players leave and thats why since he took we have been to the playoffs every season, we won 3 cups, won the division every year except i think 00-01,

8.) Chris Osgood- Probably the wings best goalie since sawchuk. 2 cups as a starter and just as good off the ice.

9.) Hakan Anderson- hes so low because his biggest contributions broke though too recently. Datsyuk, Z, Kronwall, just to name a few

10.) Tomas Holmstrom- In the inter cup period he was the only guy that would consistantly drive the net and stay there, go into corners, do all the dirty work that you dont get credit for. He takes a beating game in and game out and loves it and its so satisfying to see him finally get the recognition he deserves. and since the lockout he out of nowhere added offensive prowess. if he could work on his D, hed be the complete package.

[egroen 384]

4.) Nicklas Lidstrom- arguably the best player in red wings history and #2 behind #4 bobby orr for best dman of all time

Nahhh... he still does not really hold a candle to Howe.

He is catching up to Ted Lindsay and Sawchuk though.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Nahhh... he still does not really hold a candle to Howe.

He is catching up to Ted Lindsay and Sawchuk though.

I think he's passed both. #3 Wing of all time. Steve and Gordie are #1 and #2 and we can argue til the sun blows up about which is better - personally I don't even know which I'd pick.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

1. Yzerman

2. Lidstrom

3. Fedorov

4. Ozzie

5. Shanny

6. Datsyuk

7. Zetterberg

8. Murphy

9. Holmstrom

10.Draper

[union drone 0]

Nahhh... he still does not really hold a candle to Howe.

He is catching up to Ted Lindsay and Sawchuk though.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but it seems that Delvecchio doesn't get the love he deserves amongst the old timers. The guy was a career Wing. Retired with team stats that were second to only Howe. Was captain for something like 12 years, which was the most at the time of his retirement, and is now second only to Yzerman. The only knock against him is that the second half of his career was through some pretty lean years. That can hardly be his fault, and might even be an argument in his favor.

[therock48880 14]

Did you miss the 1st round that year? Losing the first two games at home? Needing a fluke goal in game 3? Gave a big speech before game 3? Stevie had 3 goals and 6 assists against Vancouver. We don't make it out of the 1st round without him.

Yzerman was unbelievable in that series. The interesting thing to watch on a number of the Wing's goals in that series is that Yzerman was usually parked right in front of Cloutier. He had one good leg, couldn't skate well, so he just went down low, took a beating, and opened things up for others to score.

[egroen 384]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but it seems that Delvecchio doesn't get the love he deserves amongst the old timers. The guy was a career Wing. Retired with team stats that were second to only Howe. Was captain for something like 12 years, which was the most at the time of his retirement, and is now second only to Yzerman. The only knock against him is that the second half of his career was through some pretty lean years. That can hardly be his fault, and might even be an argument in his favor.

He definitely gets overshadowed by Howe and Lindsay for the Red Wings -- but all those guys were arguably the best at their position in their generation. Delvecchio was definitely behind Beliveau, Mikita, Richard and possibly even Keon.

Delvecchio is comparable to Abel in the overall scheme of things, though Abel had a better prime (won a Hart), even though Delvecchio played much longer. But both are great two-way centers and leaders.

[therock48880 14]

In my humble opinion, Konstantinov and Sheppard don't even get a sniff of this top ten list.

As for Shep... He was probably the most one-dimensional top six forward the Wings have had in the last 15 years. He had a great shot and nothing else. His skating ability probably rivals some of the NHL's worst. He had almost no playmaking ability. He was irrelevant defensively. He was not gritty or physical at all. He didn't bring any intangibles. Oh, yeah, but he scored 50 goals in a high scoring era with one of either of two amazing set up men at his side (either Feds or Yzerman, depending on which season). Was he instrumental in winning a cup? Hell, no.

As for Vladdy... I love the guy. Maybe he gets a sentimental (but perhaps undeserved) #10 for what might have been, but there were others who played more and were at least equally instrumental in the Wings' success. If he had played on more than one cup team, then you have an argument. I have a hard time, however, ranking him above guys that were good players for more seasons and were in key roles on multiple cup teams.

So, if you were asked to name the top 10 Pistons in the past 15 years, would Joe D. make your list?

Of, if you were asked to name the top 10 Lions in the past 15 years, would Barry make your list?

Here's why I ask:

Joe D. played in 7 out of the past 15 years

Barry played in 6 out of the past 15 years

Vladdy played in 6 out of the past 15 years

Vladdy was as instrumental to the first Cup run as almost any Wing. His suffocating defense was one of the main reasons the Wings made it to the finals. He immediately stepped on the ice every time the opponents top offensive line was out there and he SHUT THEM DOWN. His fierce, take no prisoners attitude rubbed off on everyone else, he was never out of position, he had good hands, and he had a decent shot (that he didn't use enough). Without Vladdy, they don't win the first Cup, imo.

[egroen 384]

Without Vladdy, they don't win the first Cup, imo.

Or possibly their second Cup... IMO.

Few teams are ever able to repeat and the "I Believe" was a huge motivator.