What's the expectations for Zetterberg this season?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Nine times (a Wing has scored the most goals), not since '65. Howe did it five times.

A member of the Oilers, Kings, or Penguins has won the Art Ross 23 of the last 28 seasons. Add Montreal and Boston and it's 33 of 39 seasons. So what? If you don't play for the Oil, Kings, Pens, Habs, or Bruins you can't win the trophy? What does Gretzky, Orr, and Lefleur winning the Art Ross have to do with Z winning it?

I think there's something to be said about the Wings having a great, high scoring team since the early 90's, and yet not one of those great players we've had in all that time won the Art Ross or the Richard trophy.

In my opinion that's because the scoring is usually too spread out over the team for any one guy to rise above the rest of the league in scoring.

I don't see it being any different next year. And again, there's his health situation which everyone seems to be overlooking.

[DaKineMaui 8]

I would expect a minimum of 73,000 goals, maybe 100,000 helpers. He's due.

[A.T.Hun 0]

I would expect a minimum of 73,000 goals, maybe 100,000 helpers. He's due.

Yeah, but what about after the All Star break?

[Anomalously 0]

I think there's something to be said about the Wings having a great, high scoring team since the early 90's, and yet not one of those great players we've had in all that time won the Art Ross or the Richard trophy.

In my opinion that's because the scoring is usually too spread out over the team for any one guy to rise above the rest of the league in scoring.

I don't see it being any different next year. And again, there's his health situation which everyone seems to be overlooking.

Yzerman scored 155 points, a number that only Gretzky and Lemieux have matched. He finished second that year, behind Lemieux. Fedorov finished #2, after Gretzky, in 93-94. In the two decades, the 80s and the 90s, the prime of both Yzerman and Fedorov were blocked by a ten-time and a six-time winner. Those were the best two offensive threats on the Wings in the 80s and 90s, and they couldn't win it because of Gretzky and Lemieux. Shanahan might have been next, but his best seasons were behind him by the time he got to the Wings.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk are the next best players of the last 15 years. And they're in their prime now. In seven years, seven different players have won the Art Ross. It's a different era.

Crosby and Ovechkin could take over at this point. Crosby could win 5-10, Ovechkin 3-6 (and 8 Rocket Richards) and take any chance Z or D have. Ovechkin is reckless, though; he could be out a month next season, and a potent second line could mean the oppositions' best defenders might not be dogging Zetterberg all night every night. That could mean Z pots 52, one better than Lecavalier, and he takes home another big trophy. Ovechkin ends up with 47, a better gpg, but no dice.

I don't think the expectation for Zetterberg is to take home all the hardware. I think there's a better shot Z takes time off than Ovechkin. I just think bad arguments (like historical precedent) are made to suggest he won't.

[BeeRYCE 2]

If injuries don't plague Zetterberg next season, I could see him ending up a top 3 point getter... But then again, that's if injuries don't plague him. I could most likely see him missing 10 games and really hurting his 100 point hope.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Anyone who expects three 100-point seasons is in for a disappointment.

The Wings have never had two, and only rarely have they had two 'regulars' who were even on pace for such a season. 1993-94 is the only season I am aware of where the Wings had two players with PPG of a level where they would have hit 100 points with a full slate of games; Yzerman's 82 points in 58 games projects out to 119 points in 84 games, which would have ranked him third in the NHL that season. The 1994-95 season would have seen Paul Coffey and Sergei Fedorov score 100+ points in a full 84 games season, but as a 'full season' that year was considered 48 games, it doesn't count. It also doesn't count on the 'projected totals' if you project points based on percentage of schedule, as Fedorov scored 50 points in 42 games, and 57 points was the equivalency threshold for a 100-point scorer.

Chances are, the Wings may have one 100-point scorer and two 90-point scorers. They will almost certainly have three 80+ point men and will likely have at least two break the 90-point barrier. The chances of one of them breaking 100 points seems high, as Zetterberg IIRC has scored well over 100 in his last 82 regular season games, Hossa has hit the mark before, and Datsyuk has come awful close. But two 100+ point men is much harder, and three would be very difficult unless they all play together most of the time and play a LOT of hockey. See the 1996 Pittsburgh Penguins' top two lines of left winger Mario Lemieux, center Ron Francis, and right winger Jaromir Jagr for reference.

Agreed. I think Hossa's addition will only hurt Datsyuk and Z's PPG, as the first line will no longer be worked as much. Depth hurts individual performance. I personally don't expect Hossa to play with Zetts and Dat and form a super line.

Rather I see Dats playing with Hossa and Z centering Franzen and another winger on line 1b.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Hossa's points per minute will go up but not points per game

Heatley, Spezza, and Alfredsson had a season where 2 got over 100 points, right? Just a couple of years ago.

Hossa is about as good as Heatley (they were traded straight-up for each other), Datsyuk is a little better than Spezza, and Zetterberg is as good or better offensively than Alfredsson.

Chara and Redden fed those guys, Lidstrom and Rafalski will feed Z, D, and H. You tell me which pairing is better.

Good post, but one minor wrong detail. Hossa was traded with Greg De Vries for Heatly.

Good points tho.

Edited July 21, 2008 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[egroen 384]

I am predicting two 80+ point players and one 90+ out of the Big Three.

Anything more than that would be a nice suprise.

Babcock spreads the minutes along all the lines and all three of these guys will be getting PK duty -- it's just not the greatest system for individual accolades.

[Slave 31]

dats 108

z 104

hossa 102

just my predcitions

none of them get art ross or rocket trophy though

[WingsZR2 1]

As long as Detroit wins the Trophy That Really Counts, Crosby and Ovechkin can continue to be the NHL equivalent of Wilt Chamberlain while Hank continues to be the NHL equivalent of Bill Russell.

On an individual level, I would rather see Hank win Conn Smythe trophies than Art Ross trophies.

QFT

[Zion 93]

Masterfully stated.

/thread

[MidMichSteve 1,115]

I expect the first line's ice time to decrease during the regular season. The second and third lines will have more then last year. That doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in points, however.

As far as Hank being the points leader or MVP, anything is possible if he stays off the DL.

Edited July 22, 2008 by MidMichSteve

[betterREDthandead 58]

dats 108

z 104

hossa 102

just my predcitions

none of them get art ross or rocket trophy though

No way all three of 'em top 100.

I especially don't think Hossa will. Not on the second line, and if we ever see all three on the ice at the same time it'll be on a desperation power play.

My prediction from earlier stands: The only way Zetterberg or Datsyuk top 100 points is if both of them are healthy all season long. Even then it might be more like 90-95 for one or both. But if one gets hurt, neither are hitting 100.

[Opie 308]

No way all three of 'em top 100.

I especially don't think Hossa will. Not on the second line, and if we ever see all three on the ice at the same time it'll be on a desperation power play.

My prediction from earlier stands: The only way Zetterberg or Datsyuk top 100 points is if both of them are healthy all season long. Even then it might be more like 90-95 for one or both. But if one gets hurt, neither are hitting 100.

Just a thought here, but if one of the twins got hurt, then the other would almost undoubtedly play with Hossa correct, thus Hossa is off the second line and gives either of the two playmakers a very very good finisher, and at the same time does not increase their defensive responsibilities because Hossa is very defensively responsible, and that may be an understatement.

Not arguing, just saying and injury to one of the top 3 may actually increase the likelihood that the other 2 have at getting their goals, the offense becomes less spread out, and ice time would probably increase as well, plus Hossa would probably also jump to the 1st PP.

Just thinking out loud.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Opie

[betterREDthandead 58]

Just a thought here, but if one of the twins got hurt, then the other would almost undoubtedly play with Hossa correct, thus Hossa is off the second line and gives either of the two playmakers a very very good finisher, and at the same time does not increase their defensive responsibilities because Hossa is very defensively responsible, and that may be an understatement.

Possibly. But I actually think it'd be more likely that they stay split up and the vacant spot is filled by someone else. This is just my impression, but I felt like Babcock really wanted to keep the Eurotwins split up to energize some production out of more players. He kept trying to, at any rate. Couldn't do it though because they were so much more productive together than apart. So it's my opinion he'd go back to that, and keep Hossa on a different line from the healthy Eurotwin if (god forbid) one is hurt.

[Majsheppard 203]

All this depends on how Babcock lines em up. If you put them on the same line, I think it actually will limit production. Just because odds are one of our dmen will pick up at least one of the points most of the time.

I do think Hossa has a shot at the Rocket. This guy is the premier sniper of his time. Ove is the heir but Hossa now has the people around him to make him reach another level.

I think if you keep Pavel and Zetter together and seperate from Hossa, they will get awful close to their same numbers, most likely slightly better.

It really depends all on if Hossa can gain chemistry with someone like Val or Franzen.

Of course Babcock could go and foolishly take Zetter and put him on the second line and move Val up front and Pavel's production will slip a tad, unless Hossa is the third guy on the pairing, and then Zetters production will slip.

Wait I have gone crosseyed

There are too many variables, lets just have fun and watch it all unfold.

[Slave 31]

i am assuming hos and pav play together with homer and fil/z/franzen make up line 1b

not too many teams in the league (if any) can put out 2 shut down lines, hence 1 line will feel like they are playing in a scrimmage on any given night. You put your top line against pav/hos and homer, and Z's line runs rampant over you, you line up against Z, and pav makes you pav and co. light the lamp. With how good babcock is at keeping the team with their foot on the pedal i do not see a stanley cup hangover...I just can not see how barring injury those 3 do not have banner years

[CrossoverThrash 0]

in an interview after the cup ceremony he promised 50 goals

[betterREDthandead 58]

in an interview after the cup ceremony he promised 50 goals

After winning the Cup he probably felt like he could jump to the moon and s*** rainbows. Let's hold off on using Cup-celebration predictions as gospel truth.

i am assuming hos and pav play together with homer and fil/z/franzen make up line 1b

I strongly doubt Zetterberg and Datsyuk will be split up for any significant time.

[Dabura 12,232]

All this depends on how Babcock lines em up. If you put them on the same line, I think it actually will limit production. Just because odds are one of our dmen will pick up at least one of the points most of the time.

I do think Hossa has a shot at the Rocket. This guy is the premier sniper of his time. Ove is the heir but Hossa now has the people around him to make him reach another level.

I think if you keep Pavel and Zetter together and seperate from Hossa, they will get awful close to their same numbers, most likely slightly better.

It really depends all on if Hossa can gain chemistry with someone like Val or Franzen.

Of course Babcock could go and foolishly take Zetter and put him on the second line and move Val up front and Pavel's production will slip a tad, unless Hossa is the third guy on the pairing, and then Zetters production will slip.

Wait I have gone crosseyed

There are too many variables, lets just have fun and watch it all unfold.

I've got to think ZDH + Mule-Flip-Hossa will be the standard double-whammy. And while I don't expect it to lead to any scoring titles, it's going to be one hell of a top-6.

I mean seriously. That's just absolutely ludicrous.

[RedWingedKitten 9]

I've got to think ZDH + Mule-Flip-Hossa will be the standard double-whammy. And while I don't expect it to lead to any scoring titles, it's going to be one hell of a top-6.

I mean seriously. That's just absolutely ludicrous.

And that's all I care about. A good team.

Back that top-6 up with the one of the best top 4s in the NHL, and we should be able to hold our own.

[Anomalously 0]

I've got to think ZDH + Mule-Flip-Hossa will be the standard double-whammy. And while I don't expect it to lead to any scoring titles, it's going to be one hell of a top-6.

I mean seriously. That's just absolutely ludicrous.

Not the coach, but Ken Holland has said he expects Z and D to be broken up. Not just that, but why put Hossa's goal scoring prowess with 11 assists and 17 assists? Datsyuk had 66, Z had 49, Hudler had 29 [even Sammy had 29]. Detroit has enough depth at this point to bring three fairly potent lines. Put Malts-Draper-Kopecky together, and then:

D with Franzen, Hudler

Z with Homer, Hossa

And still have Fil, Samuelsson, Cleary

That way, you've got size/net presence/goal scoring (Franzen) with 66 assists/pure skill/puck handler (Datsyuk) and an undersized but incredibly talented and young Hudler. Hudler's lack of defensive instincts aren't as huge a deal because Datsyuk and Franzen are great in their own end.

And Hossa and Zetterberg, both capable of 50-50-100 and 300 shots/each with the best distraction in the league. Again, Homer isn't the greatest in his own end, but he's working with two excellent two-way guys (similar to last year, with ZDH).

We're going to have to make some sort of salary concessions next year, it makes sense to raise Hudler's value now [if you like him, put him on the top line because that's where you think he's effective; if you don't, put him on a line where he can produce so we can ship him].

[Dabura 12,232]

ZDH is the most dominant line in hockey; there's absolutely zero need to break it up. Before Hossa was signed, the second line was not where it should have been. Now, with the addition of Hossa, Flip -- a playmaker by trade -- will be flanked by two monstrous goal-scorers. I don't think it's a stretch to say that line could be the 1b to ZDH's 1a; it would be fast, physically imposing, full of finesse, and defensively sound.

Unless something weird happens, I see Hossa playing with Hank and/or Dats only on the PP and in very special situations.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Dabura

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

ZDH

Franzen-Filpulla-Sammy

Hudler-Kopecky-Hossa (Slovakian chemistry ftw)

:ph34r:

but seriously why would you split up datsyuk and zetterberg, the chemistry there is outrageous

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa will crush things

Edited July 21, 2008 by omnipotent_hudler

[Dabura 12,232]

Thing is, even if that top-6 (ZDH + FFH) doesn't flat-out steamroll the opposition, it will, at the very least, wear down the opposition like no one's business. Can you imagine being a defender -- any defender, I don't care who -- and knowing you have to face one of those two lines every shift? Can you imagine having to face that reality over the course of a best-of-seven series? Good luck with that!

[Opie 308]

Thing is, even if that top-6 (ZDH + FFH) doesn't flat-out steamroll the opposition, it will, at the very least, wear down the opposition like no one's business. Can you imagine being a defender -- any defender, I don't care who -- and knowing you have to face one of those two lines every shift? Can you imagine having to face that reality over the course of a best-of-seven series? Good luck with that!

That my friend is the hammer hitting the nail right dead center on the top of the head!!!

No matter how Babs puts those top 2 lines together he has 4 proven top 3 guys, Homer may not be the highest producer out of the 4, but he has proven he can be a top 3 guy.

Flip and Mule look to be developing into very very talented young players, Huds the same.

I believe I posted this in another thread but there are about 12 different realistic line combos for Babcock and Co to be running through, and that is without even mentioning the exact same Stanley cup winning Defense!!!

This team is going to be awesome to watch, I am buying center ice for the first time this year, just so I can see these guys play more often, this is going to be a fun year!!!