I STILL Cant Believe Hossa Is a Red Wing

[Opie 308]

You're right! I should be executed for heresy.

I can't believe people are actually involving themselves in arguing that Hossa is 'not that good.'

Who is arguing that, it is the same conversation that happens about plenty of players who are great, they are in the conversation with other greats.

For instance no one says, well Zetterberg is not that good because they consider AO a better player.

You are interpreting that people are arguing he is not that good, when in fact the conversation was about whether or not he was a playoff bust or not, which I stand corrected he is not a playoff bust.

The discussion went to whether or not he was always a good player in the playoffs.

Where in that conversation did anyone of us say he is not that good?

[Opie 308]

I can see how you arrived at that list --

1,2 are one level

3-8 another

And then there are a bunch of players in the next grouping -- I can see a lot of reasons to put a lot of different guys at the top of that third grouping, Hossa and Kovalchuk for sure -- though I like Hossa's (and Alfredsson's) overall game better the Kovalchuk who is awfully one-dimensional.

Oh and I have no problem what so ever with your list, I just wanted to justify my position.

I borrowed the structure directly from you, I even cut and pasted it, then changed the names I wanted.

[Majsheppard 203]

Hossa is really overrated now. Yeah he's elite winger, but he is not superstar player like Thornton, Lecavalier and co.

Uhhh, since he came into the league, NO ONE has scored more goals then Hossa.

You are extremely wrong.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I really still can't belive Hossa is a Wing also. I probably wont untill I see him in training camp

Uhhh, since he came into the league, NO ONE has scored more goals then Hossa.

You are extremely wrong.

Those type of stats are always skewed tho. I don't want to be "that guy" with always a negative reply, but as I'm sure you realised Hossa has played longer than most of those that our better than him now. Ovechkin at 28 will no doubt have more goals than Hossa did (barring injuries).

I still belive Hossa is a top 15 forward in the NHL, but when people use stats like that it bugs me. I know you know your stuff but like i said earleir I could have said last year, Gary Roberts had more 40 goal seasons than Hossa, hes obviously the pens biggest threat.

By the logic your using People like Luc Robitallie a couple years ago would be one of the most dangerous forwards in a game.

[egroen 384]

Uhhh, since he came into the league, NO ONE has scored more goals then Hossa.

Huh? Not even close...

Hossa has had 299 goals in the NHL since 97-98, in that same timespan Iginla, for example, had 353 goals. Jagr has had 380.

Not sure where you came up with that...

Edited July 22, 2008 by egroen

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Huh? Not even close...

Hossa has had 299 goals in the NHL since 97-98, in that same timespan Iginla, for example, had 353 goals.

Not sure where you came up with that...

Egroen, you've been here long enough to see people regularly make up stats to prove thier point. Why so suprised =)

[egroen 384]

Egroen, you've been here long enough to see people regularly make up stats to prove thier point. Why so suprised =)

My apologies... carry on

[Dabura 12,232]

Hossa is really overrated now. Yeah he's elite winger, but he is not superstar player like Thornton, Lecavalier and co.

Last season, Hossa netted a hat trick against the Wings as a lowly Thrasher and then proceeded to almost singlehandedly take the Wings to seven games in the SCF. He's big, fast, physically imposing, hard-working, and classy (he was, if memory serves, the first -- and possibly the only -- Penguin to admit his team was getting owned not by "obstruction" or by "itself," but by the Wings' superior defensive play). He's one of the shiftiest puckhandlers in the world. He's one of the most defensively responsible forwards in the world. He's one of the most dangerous, consistent goal-scorers in the world. He's flat-out better than Joe Thornton.

Bottom line: he's the complete package and will help make the Wings about as unstoppable as they've ever been.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Can we say Datsyuk is overrated considering his playoff past?

[Guest mindfly]

Can't believe how people can put crosby at 1st place... at best he's like 4th/5th.

Edited July 22, 2008 by mindfly

[Opie 308]

Can we say Datsyuk is overrated considering his playoff past?

No one called Dats overrated, but as recently as last offseason on this very board he was called that as well as a playoff bust.

I wouldn't personally call dats overrated, Z either, but in the past they didn't perform in the playoffs at the same level they did the regular season.

I wouldn't call either of them Playoff studs yet, as I would like to see some one have a string of playoffs (3-5) that were very successful and at a level around a ppg.

But that is me, overrated, busts, underrated are all subjective and based on what my expectations of them are/were.

[Guest Crymson]

No one called Dats overrated, but as recently as last offseason on this very board he was called that as well as a playoff bust.

I wouldn't personally call dats overrated, Z either, but in the past they didn't perform in the playoffs at the same level they did the regular season.

I wouldn't call either of them Playoff studs yet, as I would like to see some one have a string of playoffs (3-5) that were very successful and at a level around a ppg.

But that is me, overrated, busts, underrated are all subjective and based on what my expectations of them are/were.

Why on earth would Datsyuk be called a bust after a postseason in which he was our second-highest scoring player and scored nearly a point per game?

Why? It wouldn't happen. And it didn't.

[Opie 308]

Why on earth would Datsyuk be called a bust after a postseason in which he was our second-highest scoring player and scored nearly a point per game?

Why? It wouldn't happen. And it didn't.

Really, I seem to remember a Dats needs to step up thread from the start of last season in which a lot of people where questioning him. I am not saying I was, however the thought existed, and that was my point.

Hold on a minute I am searching the board for the thread however it is pretty deep and will take me a minute or two.

EDIT:

OK so it wasn't a thread about it, there were 3 or 4 threads about Dats numbers, contract, getting the 'A' and he and Z in the playoffs, all of which had posts in them questioning his ability, with some people stating that one year did not make him a guarantee in the post season going forward.

There was even a thread in which some posters insinuated that Dats numbers were sagging because he was playing with Z.

I am not saying these are my theories I stated my theory before, I would like to see it one more year, once is luck, twice is skill, three times makes it so (or however that saying goes).

My answer to the question was some people were saying he was such.

2nd Edit: I can't believe I am still searching for this, this is the same board that had posters claiming lids should be stripped of his captaincy and you don't believe that some posters may have claimed Dats was overrated or not performing as high as people wanted him!!!!!!!

Edited July 22, 2008 by Opie

[egroen 384]

Can't believe how people can put crosby at 1st place... at best he's like 4th/5th.

Heh... I would love to rate him that low, but I can't do it and still take myself seriously. How do you manage it?

Edited July 22, 2008 by egroen

[Dabura 12,232]

Can't believe how people can put crosby at 1st place... at best he's like 4th/5th.

To be fair, he's pretty much destined to be the undisputed #1. At the moment, however, I agree with you: he doesn't have much of a defensive game; he doesn't kill penalties; he whines and runs his mouth like no one's business -- basically, he just scores. A lot. His overall game will undoubtedly improve with experience, but at the moment, I can't honestly rank him as the best forward in the world, as he's primarily just an explosive goal-scorer. And as Stevie Y taught us, there's more to being a great forward (and leader) than scoring in bunches.

His temper tantrum in front of Hank summed it up nicely.

[Cern 0]

Heh... I would love to rate him that low, but I can't do it and still take myself seriously. How do you manage it?

Easy, him and Pittsburgh at large believe their own media too much. We don't.

[dallas27 7]

Hossa is lazy and he sucks™!!1!!1!!!one1!!1!one!!!!!1!1111

[Opie 308]

Hey Dallas27,

Do me a favor, this offseason you put Hossa in your avatar and look what happened, in 09-10 can you put Howard in your Avatar so he gets the starter role? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!

[Guest mindfly]

Heh... I would love to rate him that low, but I can't do it and still take myself seriously. How do you manage it?

He can't play defense, players who dont wanna work hard on the defense are lazy and sucks™.

Edited July 22, 2008 by mindfly

[uk_redwing 495]

Hey Dallas27,

Do me a favor, this offseason you put Hossa in your avatar and look what happened, in 09-10 can you put Howard in your Avatar so he gets the starter role? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!

Put a flying squirrel in it...

[eva unit zero 271]

Gretzky never had a postseason where he was less than one point per game...

That we would have to reach to the most offensively dominant player ever on the most offensively talented team ever in the most offensively oriented time in league history to do a straight comparison of Hossa's PPG to call him not a playoff performer pretty much proves my point. If you have to be Gretzky-level offensively every postseason to be considered 'always' a playoff performer, then nobody has done it and everyone in league history is a playoff bust.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't think anyone here is really "overrating" Hossa. Nobody is saying he's better than Crosby or Ovechkin, or can steal the captaincy from Lidstrom. In fact, the only thing the OP said was that he still couldn't believe Hossa is a Wing, then followed with Hossa you're awesome. No overrating. He is awesome, and that's validated. He's had a 100 point season. He was one of the biggest reasons his team made it to the finals last year. There's no way that isn't awesome.

But the majority of the hype isn't for Hossa's playing abilities, because quite frankly, we already have everything that he offers in various other players. The excitement stems from the fact that Hossa belongs to the Wings, despite all the forces that seemed to make that an impossibility at the deadline, and the fact that he puts our team (an already proven cup winning team) over the top for another year, when all our top competitors just got worse. At least that's why I'm excited. Not because he can outscore Ovechkin if he had the same linemates, or that he's better than Lacavalier in some obscure offensive statistic. Its because he's on our team now, and the Wings as an organization couldn't have possibly made a better move this offseason.

As for his postseason play, I'm not worried in the least about that. He is most likely going to be playing the second line, which means he won't be shouldering all the offensive responsibility of playing on the first line (and all you hockey players know there is an extra weight on your shoulders come playoff time if you're the one getting first line minutes). He won't be versing the top two defensmen from the other team, so he should have more room to work, and he'll most likely be playing with Franzen and Filppulla, which out of all the second lines in the league, if I were a scorer, I would hop onto this line. I really see him playing a similar role as Hull and Robatille when they came to the Wings in 02. A definite powerhouse when it comes to scoring, but 2nd line responsibility. Besides, he had a good year last year. If you're looking at anything earlier, you're out of date

Edited July 22, 2008 by Echolalia

[Dabura 12,232]

But the majority of the hype isn't for Hossa's playing abilities, because quite frankly, we already have everything that he offers in various other players.

I agree with most of what you said in your post. But regarding this point, I don't think the Wings had a pure goal-scorer like Hossa before he signed. Datsyuk is a playmaker at heart who's had to fight his own instincts in order to put up the big point totals. Hank is, yes, a beast, but I'd actually rank Hossa's instincts as a pure scorer over his. Mule...is a bit of question mark right now, I suppose.

You also have to consider the fact that Hossa hasn't worked with a supporting cast like this one before, whereas the aforementioned Wings have been able to reap the benefits of being a Wing for...well, their entire respective NHL careers. Point being, I think Hossa's going to surprise quite a few people this season.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I agree with most of what you said in your post. But regarding this point, I don't think the Wings had a pure goal-scorer like Hossa before he signed. Datsyuk is a playmaker at heart who's had to fight his own instincts in order to put up the big point totals. Hank is, yes, a beast, but I'd actually rank Hossa's instincts as a pure scorer over his. Mule...is a bit of question mark right now, I suppose.

You also have to consider the fact that Hossa hasn't worked with a supporting cast like this one before, whereas the aforementioned Wings have been able to reap the benefits of being a Wing for...well, their entire respective NHL careers. Point being, I think Hossa's going to surprise quite a few people this season.

I can give that to you, in that we never have had a pure goal scorer, but scoring was never a real problem for our team (although the second line definitely had its slumps). I guess the main point that I was trying to drive through was that we don't even really need Hossa at this point, or anything he has to offer. Its a complete luxury, and a very unbelievable one considering how much other more desperate teams were offering, many of which DO need what Hossa has to offer, simply to solidify a spot in the playoffs.

As for the supporting cast, I'm willing to bet that he will not be playing with Dats and Zetterberg throughout most of the season, but rather with Fillppula and Franzen. I will give you the fact that that is a solid line (I had said something similar in my previous post), and I still agree with you that its a good supporting cast (Fillppula is a born playmaker, Franzen is a scoring powerforward who can open up room for Hossa); but to reiterate, I don't think he will be playing alongside our offensive all stars, if thats what you were even referring to.

Sorry about such a long post in completely agreeing with what you said, but its either procrastinate on a half-dead Wings forum in the offseason, or get back to studying for my physics final.

[Dabura 12,232]

I'll break up the monotony with some hardcore disagreement.

I think "need" is overrated. Sure, the Wings don't need Hossa, but I like to think he's going to be more than Datsyuk Jr., or what have you. Holland was looking to give the top-6 a more balanced (and in turn, a more dangerous) scoring attack. To that end, he picked up one of the most lethal scorers in the game (boasting a scoring "edge" that, frankly, Datsyuk doesn't really have and Zetterberg is only starting to sharpen), and arguably the third best two-way forward, right behind the Euro Twins. Kind of an extravagant way to patch up a second-line scoring problem, but in this day and age where it's harder than ever to win it all (let alone repeat!), it's better super-safe than sorry.

I've always assumed he'll be playing with Flip and Mule. I honestly think it'll do wonders for him, as he'll have an excellent setup man in Flip and a power-forward-type crease-crasher in Franzen. On paper at least, that line has all the ingredients necessary for mad-crazy ownage. Not to mention a ton of help on the back end, the likes of which he definitely hasn't enjoyed before. I could easily see the added defensive help lead to a more aggressive offensive game from him. Which would be nuts.