Which of These Players Should Make the Hall of Fame?

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Recchi was recognized on the postseason All-Star team. So was Osgood, for that matter. And Neely, and Anderson, and Oates. Andreychuk never received that honor. He was never considered that good relative to his peers. That was my point.

How can you make all these arguments using stats, and then turn around and simply claim something like "he was never considered that good relative to his peers"? According to who? You? You use stats religiously to form your arguments, but now you just say "he generally wasn't considered one of the top 5 players at his position" to decide whether a guy gets into the hall.

For me its much simpler. If he was a premier player - meaning one of the top 10-15 players in the league for the better part of a decade, has 500+ goals or 1000+ points, along with a Stanley Cup and a couple of personal awards - then he gets in the hall.

[sjradio 0]

Tkachuk? Why?

500 career goals, only the 4th American born player to reach that total. (Mullen, Modano, Roenick, Tkachuk)

Mullen is in the HOF. I can say that Modano and Roenick will be in the HOF. Tkachuk will to, even though he didn't play for the big name teams, Winnipeg, Phoenix, St. Louis, and briefly for Atlanta. I think he's deserving of the HOF.

Tkachuk reached 500 faster than Calgary's Lanny MacDonald who is in the HOF. Tkachuk did it in 1,055, McDonald did it in 1,107.

In fact, Tkachuk will PASS MacDonald's career total with one more goal.

[Doggy 130]

How can you make all these arguments using stats, and then turn around and simply claim something like "he was never considered that good relative to his peers"? According to who? You? You use stats religiously to form your arguments, but now you just say "he generally wasn't considered one of the top 5 players at his position" to decide whether a guy gets into the hall.

For me its much simpler. If he was a premier player - meaning one of the top 10-15 players in the league for the better part of a decade, has 500+ goals or 1000+ points, along with a Stanley Cup and a couple of personal awards - then he gets in the hall.

QFT

[eva unit zero 271]

How can you make all these arguments using stats, and then turn around and simply claim something like "he was never considered that good relative to his peers"? According to who? You? You use stats religiously to form your arguments, but now you just say "he generally wasn't considered one of the top 5 players at his position" to decide whether a guy gets into the hall.

For me its much simpler. If he was a premier player - meaning one of the top 10-15 players in the league for the better part of a decade, has 500+ goals or 1000+ points, along with a Stanley Cup and a couple of personal awards - then he gets in the hall.

For clarification...when I said "that good" I meant one of the top two players at his position. Not like 'Oh, he was never that good' in general, but he was never specifically the best or second best player at his position according to the voters for the postseason all-star team, while Recchi was. And btw, if you think only 10-15 players during Andreychuk's career scored 500+ goals and 1000+ points....you weren't paying attention. Andreychuk's best year was 1992-93, when 23 players scored 100 points, and he wasn't one of them.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

For clarification...when I said "that good" I meant one of the top two players at his position. Not like 'Oh, he was never that good' in general, but he was never specifically the best or second best player at his position according to the voters for the postseason all-star team, while Recchi was. And btw, if you think only 10-15 players during Andreychuk's career scored 500+ goals and 1000+ points....you weren't paying attention. Andreychuk's best year was 1992-93, when 23 players scored 100 points, and he wasn't one of them.

I didn't say that, or maybe I worded it poorly. I was commenting on your method of HOF judgment. I don't think I ever even mentioned Andreychuk's name, I was simply outlining a loose personal guideline for HOFers.

And btw, Andreychuk's best year was 1993-94 when he scored 53 goals and had 99 points in 83 games - not 1992-93. Do I think he is a first or second ballot HOFer? No, but he will get in eventually.

And what is this postseason all-star team you keep bringing up? I have never seen or heard of such a thing.

EDIT- Sorry, I think I am confused by your usage of 'postseason'. Do you mean All-Stars named AFTER the season is said and done, or do you mean some sort of playoff All-Star team?

Edited August 11, 2008 by Yzerfan1999

[eva unit zero 271]

EDIT- Sorry, I think I am confused by your usage of 'postseason'. Do you mean All-Stars named AFTER the season is said and done, or do you mean some sort of playoff All-Star team?

postseason...generally means "after the season"

And yes, it refers to what are also known as the First Team and Second Team.

If you want complete awards voting for nearly all postseason awards, including All-Star teams, here is a good resource:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=145895&page=5

EDIT: So you don't think Andreychuk scoring 54 goals and 99 points in 83 games in 92-93 was better statistically than his 93-94 season? I suppose it's arguable, given that he was closer to the All-Star selection...but that may have had more to do with the fact that Robitaille saw a 39-point drop from his record output and Kevin Stevens was coming off what was a career-ruining injury in the playoffs. Those two had dominated the LW position for years going into 93-94. Luc had been on the first or second team every year since he entered the league, and Stevens had joined him in his second full season of 90-91 and they continued together for three years.

Edited August 11, 2008 by eva unit zero

[toby91_ca 620]

Pavel Bure would be my first pick from all those selections. The guy will always remind me of Datsyuk

Bure reminds you of Datysuk (other way around I guess)??

Am I the only one that sees almost no similarities in their games?

[eva unit zero 271]

Bure reminds you of Datysuk (other way around I guess)??

Am I the only one that sees almost no similarities in their games?

I commented on this earlier...Datsyuk's moves are almost exclusively based on his stick skills...Bure's moves were mostly based on his skating skills. Totally dissimilar players in that regard, and then you consider that Bure was a top goal scorer with rocket skates, and a defensive liability, while Datsyuk is a defensively sound playmaker who has decent scoring abilities and an above average skater, but he is not super-quick and is not a top-notch goal scorer. Datsyuk is much more comparable to a guy like Fedorov than he is to Bure, except that Fedorov had Bure's skating ability and could score goals almost as well as Bure.

[egroen 384]

Rob Blake Yes

Peter Forsberg Yes

Pavel Bure Yes

Adam Foote No

Sergey Zubov Maybe

Paul Kariya No

Keith Tkachuk No

Alexander Mogilny Yes

Mark Recchi Maybe

Vincent Damphousse No

Joe Nieuwendyk Yes

Pierre Turgeon No

Peter Bondra No

The question you gotta ask from yourself is, which ones you are really going to remember after two decades. It's takes more than only points to get nominated to HoF.

What a strange list...is it literally, "Hey, I remember that guy - he gets in!" or is there a method here?

For instance, why on earth is Mogilny a definite "yes" while Turgeon a definite "no". Both guys who will probably never get in, but I would have Turgeon well ahead of Mogilny. Blake and Bure will probably never sniff it either. Recchi has a better chance than those 4.