USA Today: Red Wings are obvious #1, but...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Did you consider a similar scenario with the Yankees?

Since 1996 (12 seasons):

Won the world series - 4 times

Lost to the eventual world series champs - 5 times

Lost to a team that made it to the world series but lost - 2 times

Lost to a team that didn't make it to the world series - only once in the last 12 seasons

All true, but keep in mind that the likelihood of losing to a team that goes further in the playoffs is greater in baseball due to the fact that half the amount of teams make the postseason (16 for the NHL as opposed to 8 for MLB). Chances are much greater for a baseball team to have lost to the eventual champion or the runner-up than they are in hockey.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Wait a minute. So you're telling me that despite adding Marian Hossa we still have to actually play 82 games + 4 rounds of playoff hockey? You mean Gary Bettman isn't going to make an appearance at the home-opener in October and hand Nick Lidstrom the cup, saying "Here. Hold on to this for another year."???

Wow. This changes everything. I was sure that we were going to encounter zero adversity en route to another cup.

[Chunkylover 26]

Habs not a serious contender?

2nd best record last season/best pp/most goals scored - that's not enough for you?

Yeah their scoring/pp dried-up, & Price looked shaky throughout the playoffs, but overall IMO they're a team with lots of young talent...They'll be as good in the reg season, & better this time areound come playoffs.

I honestly don't really consider either Blake, nor Boyle as real defensive minded studs; it'll also be McLellan's 1st time as an NHL head coach. I'm sure he'll eventually do well, but I wouldn't expect grand things for the 1st half of the season due to the transition.

With the Habs, it's that shakiness with Price that is a question. They do have Halak who is also good, but the last couple seasons they've had good goal-tending and the best power-play and they have an Eastern Conference Regular Season Championship and a tenth place finish so anything is possible (duh). They lack consistency.

I'm thinking the Sharks will either stumble right out of the gate or pull an Ottawa and cream everyone for a month then implode.

On Blake and Boyle: the Sharks have been trying to play Red Wings hockey for the last few seasons and this is their answer, I guess.

[Rivalred 630]

The Wings do have a solid team, but some key guys did retire such as Drake and Hasek... Osgood carried the Wings through the playoffs with the stellar play by the D and the determination of the offense (whole team effort)... Everyone here knows the Wings have 82 games to play to get to the playoffs. Hasek and Osgood split the load - what it will come down to is how many games Osgood and Conklin play and if they can hold up through the regular season.

The team looks good and they have a good chance, but are not 100% guaranteed the Cup again.

[Chunkylover 26]

The Wings do have a solid team, but some key guys did retire such as Drake and Hasek... Osgood carried the Wings through the playoffs with the stellar play by the D and the determination of the offense (whole team effort)... Everyone here knows the Wings have 82 games to play to get to the playoffs. Hasek and Osgood split the load - what it will come down to is how many games Osgood and Conklin play and if they can hold up through the regular season.

The team looks good and they have a good chance, but are not 100% guaranteed the Cup again.

I think Dom's play last year was indicative of how the shooters have improved their game in order to beat the beasts we call the modern goalie. He was so great in Buffalo because he could read the play and react quicker than anyone else. Now I'm sure he has slowed some with age but it was also the way he had trained himself to respond in certain situation which caused him problems.

If anything this shows that the league needs not meddle with the game in order to increase scoring.

Osgood changed his style and Conklin is younger so they should be more able to respond to evolving offensive threats.

edit: spelling

Edited August 26, 2008 by Chunkylover

[Doggy 130]

The author is correct in stating that no team (regardless of talent) should count their chickens before they've hatched, because plenty of times the Wings were supposed to win it all and came up short. Where he/she loses you is the Yankees comment, simply because of what it used to mean. The old expression was used because they always won and had an unlimited pocketbook. Now, if teams or fans hate the Wings, its simply because they can't compare to the way the Wings organization is run and the success that it breeds.

As for the rest of the rankings....MTL 2nd? PIT 3rd? SJ 4th? DAL 5th? I disagree with all those.

Here's mine:

1: Detroit

2: San Jose (Slim margin over Dallas)

3: Dallas

4: Montreal

5: Pittsburgh

Whoa man! This is exactly what I was gonna post. s***. So I guess all I have to say is:

QFT!!!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Pittsburgh is s***ty.

While it is definitely not impossible to miss the playoffs completely after being in the SCF the year before (New Jersey is a recent example of this...2000 and 2001 I think?), they have two of the best offensive players in the game today. They have a good young up-and-coming goaltender. They lost some personnel, yes, but it's not like Pittsburgh is re-building. I know we recently played them in a playoff series and people hate the attention that Crosby and Malkin get so it probably makes people a bit more negatively biased towards Pitt and saying they aren't as good, but I doubt there's going to be much of a dropoff. They are probably going to be legit conteders to make another deep playoff run once again.

[Dabura 12,232]

Habs not a serious contender?

2nd best record last season/best pp/most goals scored - that's not enough for you?

No, it's not. It's the postseason I care about, and they haven't done damage there in ages. Bottom line, they're getting the attention they're getting because the East has all of two good teams: them and the Pens. The Pens just lost big and seem to have dug something of a hole for themselves this offseason, so naturally the spotlight is now on the Habs. Which is fine if we're just talking about the East. But being a serious contender means stacking up well against the best in your own conference and the best in the other conference. Frankly, I don't think they stack up well against any of the West's big 3. Both the Wings and Stars would play a stifling defensive game and expose the Habs' holes on the blue line, as well as Price's inexperience. The Sharks can match the Habs' fast, flashy style, and they have an edge in the physical department and between the pipes.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Dabura

[Guest nutz2u]

I don't see why loosing Hossa should enter into the equation so much for the Penguins, he only played 12 games for them, 3g ans 7a.

[b.shanafan14 733]

People can blabber on and on about Crosby and Malkin and "learning from the loss" and "needing to lose before winning" until the cows come home, but the bottom line is this: right now, the Pens are looking to be an inferior version of last season's team, even with their "hard lessons" learned. They're going to miss Hossa and Malone; their defense is still shallow; and anyone with half a brain can tell there's tension behind the scenes. Furthermore, Crosby's going to have to start playing the PK, which should take a toll on him -- both physically and mentally. Having said all this, I expect them to come out of the East this season. Landing Gaborik would go a long way in helping the cause.

With the addition of Blake, Boyle and Todd McLellan, the Sharks are looking to be a more defensive-minded team -- which is what they need to be. But in the battle for the #2 spot in the West, I give the edge to the Stars, who've been playing a solid defense-first game for a little while now and have crafted an identity around it. This could be a shaky transitional season for the Sharks, which, in theory, would be good for them in the long run, but maybe not so great in the short run. We'll see. I'd take them over the Pens in a best-of-seven. I'm not sure the Pens even know what defense is, even after that clinic the Wings put on.

The Stars are, in my opinion, the biggest threat to the Wings' quest for a repeat. If a team is going to beat the Wings in a best-of-seven, they'll need to play the kind of game the Stars play -- that is, a grinding defensive game. Their downfall last season was a lack firepower on offense. They haven't addressed this issue (yet), which is a bit puzzling. Still, I expect them to finish second in the West. And just to keep up the theme of East-bashing: they'd beat the Pens or Habs.

I agree completely. Pittsburgh isn't going to be as good and I think/hope the majority of the people in the media that had the Pens of Sid pegged to be the second coming of the Oilers of Wayne have come to their senses. Crosby is going to have to learn to play PK eventually (don't know how he gets the 'great all-around' stamp when he is neither a defensive stand-out or a penalty killer) and I'm not sure Therien's attitude is the most conducive to building a team of champions given the way he went about the finals.

The Sharks have been a paper lion for a few seasons now, being among the top picked to go all the way only to fizzle. But them adding on defense and giving the reigns to Todd McLellan does frighten me, a lot.

The Stars will continue to be competitive, though I don't know if they can beat out the upgraded Sharks team, even with Avery pissing in everyone's Cheerios. But I guess we'll all have to wait and see, Stanley Cup or no, summer is just as long! UGH!

[Dabura 12,232]

I don't see why loosing Hossa should enter into the equation so much for the Penguins, he only played 12 games for them, 3g ans 7a.

He was a difference-maker in the postseason, arguably their best player. You take him out of the SCF series and the Wings win much more easily.

[Idoit40fans 0]

He was a difference-maker in the postseason, arguably their best player. You take him out of the SCF series and the Wings win much more easily.

Yeah, but you take him out of the equation and they are still in the SCF. Maybe Malkin trains for the 100 game season that he just experienced for the first time and doesnt hit a wall in the ECF. If the pens' key players are healthy this season, there will be at most a very slight dropoff from last year.

[Dabura 12,232]

Yeah, but you take him out of the equation and they are still in the SCF.

...and they get blown away by the Wings. As opposed to just getting owned.

Like I said, I expect them to come out of the East again. To me, it's almost a given. The question is, how do they stack up against the Wings? And I think to myself, "OK. Marian Hossa was one of three, maybe two Pens who actually bothered showing up in the SCF. He was pretty much a royal pain in the ass. Now the Wings (virtually the same roster that just won the Cup) have him and the Pens don't. Malone wasn't exactly a force, but he made his presence felt here and there. Satan and Fedo? Unequivocal downgrade."

But like I also said, adding Gaborik would really help.

[Idoit40fans 0]

...and they get blown away by the Wings. As opposed to just getting owned.

Like I said, I expect them to come out of the East again. To me, it's almost a given. The question is, how do they stack up against the Wings? And I think to myself, "OK. Marian Hossa was one of three, maybe two Pens who actually bothered showing up in the SCF. He was pretty much a royal pain in the ass. Now the Wings (virtually the same roster that just won the Cup) have him and the Pens don't. Malone wasn't exactly a force, but he made his presence felt here and there. Satan and Fedo? Unequivocal downgrade."

But like I also said, adding Gaborik would really help.

I don't know about Fedetenko being a huge downgrade from Malone. Malone still played like the 20 goal player that he is, he just rode Malkin's explosion to a career year production-wise. As far as picking up Hossa's slack, Malkin can definitely do that if he doesn't slow down like he did last year. Detroit definitely still has the better team on paper though.

[Chunkylover 26]

Ug, did we just become the new San Jose/Calgary "Best Team on Paper"? I actually like when everyone expects us to choke that way I don't have to listen to the sycophantic media hiss their half-hearted praises of the Wings, while clearly hoping for their defeat.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I'm really surprised to see all the media outlets riding Montreal's coattails. They shown last year in full form that a run-and-gun offense, especially with an inexperienced goalie, is not a forumla for playoff success. Not that I really think Cristobal Huet is all that great, but he was probably a safer bet over a first-year rookie with no previous NHL experience. That organization is still stuck in the day's of Patrick Roy and Ken Dryden, since that's probably what their aim was when they threw Price into the fire.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[Chunkylover 26]

I'm really surprised to see all the media outlets riding Montreal's coattails. They shown last year in full form that a run-and-gun offense, especially with an inexperienced goalie, is not a forumla for playoff success. Not that I really think Cristobal Huet is all that great, but he was probably a safer bet over a first-year rookie with no previous NHL experience. That organization is still stuck in the day's of Patrick Roy and Ken Dryden, since that's probably what their aim was when they threw Price into the fire.

Yeah, but it's the story that is so attractive to sports journalists. It's their centennial. Maybe that earns them some extra love, maybe not. But it is clear that everyone in the media wants the '08-'09 "Dream Match-up" between Detroit and Montreal.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I don't know about Fedetenko being a huge downgrade from Malone. Malone still played like the 20 goal player that he is, he just rode Malkin's explosion to a career year production-wise. As far as picking up Hossa's slack, Malkin can definitely do that if he doesn't slow down like he did last year. Detroit definitely still has the better team on paper though.

If you don't know about Fedotenko being a huge downgrade from Malone, then you shouldn't be in this discussion. I suppose if you wanted to except the fact that Malone is bigger, more physical, more tenacious, better defensively, and a better goal scorer, then yeah, its not a huge downgrade. But then again, looking at it that way would be retarded. As Dabs said, unequivocal downgrade.

Also, "picking up Hossa's slack" means accounting for 20+ playoff points and being worlds better defensively. 50 playoff points in one season and becoming a solid defensive forward isn't going to happen ever nowadays, let alone in one season of improvement.

And I'm not sure where you're going with your comment about Detroit being better on paper. Detroit is better on the ice as well.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I agree with that. Or maybe flip Dallas with SJ.

Yeah, I was definitely torn between the two (hence the "slim margin over Dallas" comment). The thing is, I think the Sharks will be a better playoff team with the subtraction of Wilson and the addition of McLellan. They may not be as strong out of the gate chemistry-wise due to the changes they've made, but look for them to catch their stride mid-season and be a contender.

[Doggy 130]

Yeah, I was definitely torn between the two (hence the "slim margin over Dallas" comment). The thing is, I think the Sharks will be a better playoff team with the subtraction of Wilson and the addition of McLellan. They may not be as strong out of the gate chemistry-wise due to the changes they've made, but look for them to catch their stride mid-season and be a contender.

Yeah but I have a tonne of respect for Dallas too. They're pretty difficult to split before the season begins. It could go either way between them in several months, who knows? They are without a doubt Detroit's biggest threat that I can see.

[Shutemdown 23]

Wait a minute. So you're telling me that despite adding Marian Hossa we still have to actually play 82 games + 4 rounds of playoff hockey? You mean Gary Bettman isn't going to make an appearance at the home-opener in October and hand Nick Lidstrom the cup, saying "Here. Hold on to this for another year."???

Wow. This changes everything. I was sure that we were going to encounter zero adversity en route to another cup.

Wait, seriously?

I thought we instantly won the '09 cup already when we signed Hossa? Like a package-deal type thing?

I knew Marian Hossa and the Stanley Cup seemed too good to be true for $7.45M...

Does that mean we'll actually have to try to repeat?

Edited August 27, 2008 by Shutemdown

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Yeah but I have a tonne of respect for Dallas too. They're pretty difficult to split before the season begins. It could go either way between them in several months, who knows? They are without a doubt Detroit's biggest threat that I can see.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Dallas will be a major obstacle for Detroit to overcome, but I see the Sharks being equally difficult as the season wears on. I think between the playoff-experienced players they've added and the addition of McLellan, it will greatly impact the way that team plays down the stretch and in the playoffs. Now with Dallas, I expect them to come firing out of the gates, but it'll be interesting how things work with Brunnstrom and how effective Avery will be. While I could argue that Dallas is the top competitor for the Wings, we need to keep in mind that this team is now minus a quality back-up in Smith (although they did add Richards), and still has a lot of their eggs in one basket on offense. If they can provide timely scoring like they did last postseason, they will cleary be the top competitor for the Wings but when you look at them compared to the Sharks *on paper*, an argument could be made for either.

[Doggy 130]

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Dallas will be a major obstacle for Detroit to overcome, but I see the Sharks being equally difficult as the season wears on. I think between the playoff-experienced players they've added and the addition of McLellan, it will greatly impact the way that team plays down the stretch and in the playoffs. Now with Dallas, I expect them to come firing out of the gates, but a good portion of their season will depend on what they do with Brunnstrom and how effective Avery will be. While I could argue that Dallas is the top competitor for the Wings, we need to keep in mind that this team is now minus a quality back-up in Smith (although they did add Richards), and still has a lot of their eggs in one basket on offense. If they can provide timely scoring like they did last postseason, they will cleary be the top competitor to the Wings but when you look at them compared to the Sharks *on paper*, an argument could be made for either.

Yeah, I agree with ya, man. They're both just friggin awesome teams. They really are.

[chrisdetroit 189]

The Wings-Yankees comparison is outdated, and referencing another Detroit sports team is just lame.

The Habs have done nothing to prove they're a serious contender. This, don't forget, is the same team that had its collective ass handed to it by a depleted Flyers team, which then went on to have its collective ass handed to it by the Pens, who then went on to have their collective ass handed to them by the Wings. Putting the Habs at #2 might as well be affirmative action; they'll need Sundin, a revelatory run from Price, and a lot of luck before even thinking about winning it all.

People can blabber on and on about Crosby and Malkin and "learning from the loss" and "needing to lose before winning" until the cows come home, but the bottom line is this: right now, the Pens are looking to be an inferior version of last season's team, even with their "hard lessons" learned. They're going to miss Hossa and Malone; their defense is still shallow; and anyone with half a brain can tell there's tension behind the scenes. Furthermore, Crosby's going to have to start playing the PK, which should take a toll on him -- both physically and mentally. Having said all this, I expect them to come out of the East this season. Landing Gaborik would go a long way in helping the cause.

With the addition of Blake, Boyle and Todd McLellan, the Sharks are looking to be a more defensive-minded team -- which is what they need to be. But in the battle for the #2 spot in the West, I give the edge to the Stars, who've been playing a solid defense-first game for a little while now and have crafted an identity around it. This could be a shaky transitional season for the Sharks, which, in theory, would be good for them in the long run, but maybe not so great in the short run. We'll see. I'd take them over the Pens in a best-of-seven. I'm not sure the Pens even know what defense is, even after that clinic the Wings put on.

The Stars are, in my opinion, the biggest threat to the Wings' quest for a repeat. If a team is going to beat the Wings in a best-of-seven, they'll need to play the kind of game the Stars play -- that is, a grinding defensive game. Their downfall last season was a lack firepower on offense. They haven't addressed this issue (yet), which is a bit puzzling. Still, I expect them to finish second in the West. And just to keep up the theme of East-bashing: they'd beat the Pens or Habs.

Pretty fair analysis.

One thing that everybody overlooks with the Pens is IMO, their coaching is terrible. I can't see them ever winning a cup with Therien behind the bench. Look at last years finals. I'll never forget watching game 3 when the Wings were on the PP and the anouncers were commenting about Crosby (their best player) not playing on the PK because Therien didn't think he was ready. I'm thinking at this point they have nothing to lose. Also, he sits Gary Roberts for game one - one of the few experienced forwards on the team. And the whinning. 'nough said.

[Chunkylover 26]

Pretty fair analysis.

One thing that everybody overlooks with the Pens is IMO, their coaching is terrible. I can't see them ever winning a cup with Therien behind the bench. Look at last years finals. I'll never forget watching game 3 when the Wings were on the PP and the anouncers were commenting about Crosby (their best player) not playing on the PK because Therien didn't think he was ready. I'm thinking at this point they have nothing to lose. Also, he sits Gary Roberts for game one - one of the few experienced forwards on the team. And the whinning. 'nough said.

I agree Therrien is a bad influence on Crosby and that team. Imagine how much better Crosby would be with Mike Babcock as his coach.