Babcock speaks about line combos

[Guest mindfly]

Alright coach babcock has more on the lineups at http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...wings_dats.html

speaks highly of Leino etc

Edited September 4, 2008 by mindfly

[Kp-Wings 3]

Finally, a thread where we can talk about line combos.

Fillpulla - Datsyuk - Hossa

Franzen - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Maltby - Draper - Cleary

Lilja - McCarty - Downey (this is a new line I thought up recently)

I don't see Jesus in your lineup (ala Mikeal Samuelsson).

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

I don't see Jesus in your lineup (ala Mikeal Samuelsson).

No Mr.Air Guitar????/

[Chunkylover 26]

Alright coach babcock has more on the lineups at http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...wings_dats.html

speaks highly of Leino etc

Interestingly he puts Maltby on the bubble with Kopy, Mac, and Downey. We may just see Helm and Leino if he's willing to put that many guys on the block.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I don't see Jesus in your lineup (ala Mikeal Samuelsson).

He'd be a reserve along with Hudler.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

He'd be a reserve along with Hudler.

McCarty in over Hudler? Can I ask why?

[Opie 308]

McCarty in over Hudler? Can I ask why?

You haven't spent much time in conversation with GMR, the answer to your question is quite simply toughness, size, and grit.

GMR, did I leave anything out?

[Reds4Life 51]

You haven't spent much time in conversation with GMR, the answer to your question is quite simply toughness, size, and grit..

..and Mac fights

[egroen 384]

You haven't spent much time in conversation with GMR...

I think Hudler would have a new fan if they stopped holding him back and turned him loose in those scrums! He's a spitfire, that one!!

Edited September 4, 2008 by egroen

[GoWings1905 2,694]

You haven't spent much time in conversation with GMR, the answer to your question is quite simply toughness, size, and grit.

GMR, did I leave anything out?

No, I figured that's what the answer would turn out like. I guess I was just hoping there would be more common sense in arguing for Mac over Hudler. I suppose it goes beyond logic.

[Opie 308]

Logic is a tricky word, if it makes logical sense to him, his argument is therefore logical.

However, is it realistic in this organization (don't confuse that with all of the NHL), one thing to keep in mind is why did Hudler drop that far down in the draft. Size, I would start Hudler over D-mac but that doesn't mean I am right just sane!

I kid GMR with the sane part, he and I have gone around the toughness merry-go-round so many times!

[puckbags 863]

I've said this before...what a luxury to have for Babcock...you could take our top 9 forwards put their names in a hat and pull them out and you couldn't really go wrong with any combos. His biggest decision is going to be how to put a 4th line together when if you look at most other teams in the league by the time it gets down to building a 4th line its usually left over table scraps.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

You haven't spent much time in conversation with GMR, the answer to your question is quite simply toughness, size, and grit.

GMR, did I leave anything out?

Hudler doesn't give us anything we don't already have. Mac at least gives us more grit. However, Hudler would be a great replacement if an injury occurred to someone else. Also, I was just having some fun with another "best lines" topic. No one has to take it so seriously.

Logic is a tricky word, if it makes logical sense to him, his argument is therefore logical.

However, is it realistic in this organization (don't confuse that with all of the NHL), one thing to keep in mind is why did Hudler drop that far down in the draft. Size, I would start Hudler over D-mac but that doesn't mean I am right just sane!

I kid GMR with the sane part, he and I have gone around the toughness merry-go-round so many times!

How does that statement you just wrote make me any different than any other member of LGW?

We're all part of the same hypocrisy, and it's almost impossible for any poster to change any other's mind. Don't single me out for it.

Edited September 4, 2008 by GMRwings1983

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Hudler doesn't give us anything we don't already have. Mac at least gives us more grit. However, Hudler would be a great replacement if an injury occurred to someone else. Also, I was just having some fun with another "best lines" topic. No one has to take it so seriously.

That's fine if you want Mac to play, but when did having too much offensive firepower become a bad thing? I think the Red Wings should and will play that to their advantage, instead of scratching a very productive player.

Considering Babcock intends on starting Hudler on the second line, he has an even more prominent role in the offense heading into this season. Hudler put up points playing on a line with Helm and Mac during the playoffs - imagine what he could do with regular minutes alongside Z and Mule.

Edited September 4, 2008 by GoWings1905

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I still don't think Hudler should be on the 2nd line, namely because Flip would then become a gross overpayment as a 3rd liner. I'll admit that Hudler does have talent, and if you think he should be in the lineup, that's fine.

I was just giving an example of the lines I'd start. There was no lack of talent in my ideal lineup, which had a bit of everything. I shouldn't have to apologize for not having the "Hudler crush" that everyone else has.

[norrisnick 1]

I still don't think Hudler should be on the 2nd line, namely because Flip would then become a gross overpayment as a 3rd liner. I'll admit that Hudler does have talent, and if you think he should be in the lineup, that's fine.

I was just giving an example of the lines I'd start. There was no lack of talent in my ideal lineup, which had a bit of everything. I shouldn't have to apologize for not having the "Hudler crush" that everyone else has.

Cleary and Fil both have bigger cap hits than Zetterberg. Guess Z is a 3rd liner?

Paychecks should never make coaching decisions.

[eva unit zero 271]

I still don't think Hudler should be on the 2nd line, namely because Flip would then become a gross overpayment as a 3rd liner. I'll admit that Hudler does have talent, and if you think he should be in the lineup, that's fine.

I was just giving an example of the lines I'd start. There was no lack of talent in my ideal lineup, which had a bit of everything. I shouldn't have to apologize for not having the "Hudler crush" that everyone else has.

McCarty is about the 17th or 18th best forward the Wings currently have under contract. Hudler is in the top six. Suggesting Mac in the top 12 over Hudler is completely ludicrous.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Cleary and Fil both have bigger cap hits than Zetterberg. Guess Z is a 3rd liner?

Paychecks should never make coaching decisions.

Why would you even post that? Hank is going to make loads of money a year from now. That's a horrible example for a comparison.

As I said last week, Hank's contract wasn't signed a month ago. Flip's was.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

McCarty is about the 17th or 18th best forward the Wings currently have under contract. Hudler is in the top six. Suggesting Mac in the top 12 over Hudler is completely ludicrous.

Not really since the 4th line hardly plays any minutes anyway. It's not going to put a big dent in the Wings armor.

Oh and as I already posted, they're my ideal lines and not anyone elses. It's nothing for anyone to get worked up over.

[norrisnick 1]

Why would you even post that? Hank is going to make loads of money a year from now. That's a horrible example for a comparison.

As I said last week, Hank's contract wasn't signed a month ago. Flip's was.

And Hudler will be signing a bigger contract some time before July 1st as well. Either way, paychecks should never be making coaching decisions. If they fit under the cap and are on the roster, Babcock should ignore paystubs completely. It's what they do on the ice that matters.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

And Hudler will be signing a bigger contract some time before July 1st as well. Either way, paychecks should never be making coaching decisions. If they fit under the cap and are on the roster, Babcock should ignore paystubs completely. It's what they do on the ice that matters.

So you don't think there's anything wrong with overpaying a 3rd liner who's going to play 3rd line minutes, which could be filled just as well by a guy who gets paid a lot less?

That would be on Holland not on Babcock.

[eva unit zero 271]

Why would you even post that? Hank is going to make loads of money a year from now. That's a horrible example for a comparison.

As I said last week, Hank's contract wasn't signed a month ago. Flip's was.

So what? You said that Flip's paycheck needed to be justified by presence on the second line. Well, let's look at the lines if we just line them up by paycheck, picking the first three forwards, then the next three, and so on:

Filppula/Datsyuk/Hossa

Cleary/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Draper/Samuelsson

Maltby/Franzen/Downey

Kopecky

Let's now translate that into line numbers as they are laid out on Babcock's "preliminary" lines, using 5 to refer to any healthy scratch.

3/1/1

3/2/1

2/4/3

4/2/5

4

Seems like a world of difference between your opinion and that of a guy who just coached a team to a Stanley Cup win. The only pair that's together on salary who Babcock would play together are Hossa and Datsyuk. Wonder who knows better?

[Heaton 1]

So you don't think there's anything wrong with overpaying a 3rd liner who's going to play 3rd line minutes, which could be filled just as well by a guy who gets paid a lot less?

That would be on Holland not on Babcock.

First of all, third line minutes for Filppula will still be around 16 minutes a night and secondly, Holland isn't expecting Filppula to reach his full potential by the end of this season. The front office isn't projecting Filppula to be a career 3rd liner and had Hossa not signed here it'd be Filppula on the 1st line with Datsyuk and Holmstrom.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

So what? You said that Flip's paycheck needed to be justified by presence on the second line. Well, let's look at the lines if we just line them up by paycheck, picking the first three forwards, then the next three, and so on:

Filppula/Datsyuk/Hossa

Cleary/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Draper/Samuelsson

Maltby/Franzen/Downey

Kopecky

Let's now translate that into line numbers as they are laid out on Babcock's "preliminary" lines, using 5 to refer to any healthy scratch.

3/1/1

3/2/1

2/4/3

4/2/5

4

Seems like a world of difference between your opinion and that of a guy who just coached a team to a Stanley Cup win. The only pair that's together on salary who Babcock would play together are Hossa and Datsyuk. Wonder who knows better?

You missed the point with your usual over-analyzing. I'm saying Flip should have never been signed to that big contract, especially since Hank and Franzen are going to want a lot more money. No use signing a guy to that much cash and then making him a 3rd liner behind someone like Hudler.

And your comparison with me to Babcock is rather childish, since I was just putting together my ideal lines as an example. I didn't say I was a better coach than Babcock.

[norrisnick 1]

So you don't think there's anything wrong with overpaying a 3rd liner who's going to play 3rd line minutes, which could be filled just as well by a guy who gets paid a lot less?

That would be on Holland not on Babcock.

Cleary and Filppula (and Sammy for that matter) are tweeners. Passable 2nd liners in a pinch but great 3rd liners. Their contracts reflect that. If they were bonafide top 6 guys they'd be in the upper $3M to $4M+ range. Once you get to $5M you're getting into top line territory.

I'd have preferred shaving half a million of their contracts but over 5 years they should provide solid value. The one and only problem their contracts present is for next season. We're fine this season and 2 years from now, but next year will be tight. I'd have preferred signing Fil to a 2 year deal in the Loui Eriksson range so we could squeeze next year's payraises in and then bump him up to $3M or so when Nick's contract looks to shrink a bit.