The Bertuzzi - Matthias (+ picks) trade

[Guest mindfly]

I wasn't around here when it happend in feb 07 but what was ken holland thinking at the time... he needed "grit" for the playoffs??? and traded a really promising talent with powerforward size..What was his explanation?

Edited September 25, 2008 by mindfly

[T-Ruff 47]

At the time Matthias was hardly a "promising young talent" in the Wings organization, and if you look up the old thread I'm sure you won't find many posts at the time saying that it was a bad trade (disregarding any 'Bertuzzi bias')

[Echolalia 2,961]

You can't get something for nothing, and Matthias turned out to be much better than we expected, at a much faster rate. At the time we were missing a powerforward and Bertuzzi was the only one that we could sink. Matthias was too young to fill the role and Holland figured it may be his best chance at a cup for a while and jumped on it. Little did he know that the Wings would win the cup the next year.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

It's been done to death. At the time I thought it was a decent trade considering what the other teams were giving up on deadline day. Of course as it turns out it was a disaster as Bertuzzi failed to have a significant impact and Matthias has gone on to become one heck of a prospect, but I can't blame Holland too much. And besdies, Matthias would be in the same boat Abdelkader is in at the moment.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I wasn't around here when it happend in feb 07 but what was ken holland thinking at the time... he needed "grit" for the playoffs??? and traded a really promising talent with powerforward size..What was his explanation?

Are we seriously going to question Ken Holland over something as insignificant as Shawn Mattias?

Until I see Mattias making a real impact for an NHL club what does anybody care? Holland brought us another cup. Sure, it didn't happen b/c of the Bertuzzi deal but so what.

Holland made lots of moves and he also didn't overreact last season when money was flying all over the place. All he did was sign Mac and Stuey to reasonable deals and bring home another cup.

Seriously dude, get over it already. Forget about Mattias and enjoy being the Cup champs and going into this year as the favorites...AGAIN....and with Marian Hossa on our side this time.

[eva unit zero 271]

Matthias was 19 and projected as a third line checking center when he was traded. The season after he was traded, he was called up for a brief stint and scored a couple of goals. He also scored better in juniors that season. But the unexpected flash of offense (2 goals against Washington) was a big part of what suddenly got people talking about him. His juniors season in 07-08 was not a huge improvement over his 06-07 season, and after 06-07 he was still considered a future third-liner at the NHL level. Perhaps his ability to repeat that season made it noteworthy...but again, he was 19 and 20 when he did it, not 17 and 18. It's a sudden appearance of scoring ability that wasn't there, and not even at a level that justify calling him a top-end prospect, that have caused all this Matthias hype.

For instance...what if Matthias suddenly starts scoring the way he was three years ago again? Why did he start scoring more? Is it something he did? Is it someone he was playing with? Your numbers don't just change like that if you didn't do anything unless your luck changed; if he had the skill all along. If that were the case, he'd have been called a future top-six forward.

I guess my question is...what is the factor that caused Matthias' sudden offensive explosion? Will it carry over into the NHL? Or does Matthias' stock drop back closer to where it was?

[egroen 384]

At least Holland did not have to buy Bertuzzi out and have him figure into the cap for the next couple years. If Holland gets C for that trade, Burke gets an E- for the signing. The Calgary signing of Bertuzzi may end up getting a B.

Bertuzzi seemed like a good risk at the time, and he was "ok" in the playoffs. Matthias was not much to speak of and might still not be. Pretty low risk, high reward scenario that Holland is fond of and I hope he continues to be.

[Hank 0]

You can't get something for nothing, and Matthias turned out to be much better than we expected, at a much faster rate. At the time we were missing a powerforward and Bertuzzi was the only one that we could sink. Matthias was too young to fill the role and Holland figured it may be his best chance at a cup for a while and jumped on it. Little did he know that the Wings would win the cup the next year.

So true. Matthias wasn't on anyone's radar. Now I believe he's rated in the top 30 prospects in the world.

Some analysts even believe he'll be centering one of the top 2 lines in Florida and have him rated as their #1 centre (if Horton stays at RW instead of moving back to his natural centre position).

If anything, we should look at this more positively. The Wings have shown that they can draft good quality CHL prospects who aren't top 10 picks. They got this kid in the 2nd round.

And Cory Emmerton looks to be a future top-6 forward in the next 2-3 years.

Good things are coming!

[Guest mindfly]

Seriously dude, get over it already. Forget about Mattias and enjoy being the Cup champs and going into this year as the favorites...AGAIN....and with Marian Hossa on our side this time.

"DUDE" relax, it was just a simple question, i totally agree that ken holland is a phenomenal GM but i just couldn't understand that trade that's all.

[csf2007 0]

You can't win 'em all. The Wings are bound to make a few moves that the fans do not agree with considering the strong track record. It's just part of the business.

[wingslogo19 281]

I think some people are jumping the gun here.. Was it a bad trade, maybe.. But lets wait till Matthias is scoring 20-30 goals before saying this was a bad trade.. And really, the trade didn't hurt us at all. kenny is still the best gm

Edited September 25, 2008 by wingslogo19

[Reilly 24]

Even if this team still had Matthias, where would he play?

[T.Low 1,011]

Even if this team still had Matthias, where would he play?

EGGZACHERY!!!

Isn't there a Logjam thread somewhere. As discussed before, its a great problem to have. And what are assets for? The are for using in the future, or trading for percieved upgrades for the present. It was a move that certainly could have worked out well but certainly didn't add up to much in the end. Not too much harm done. Ya can't keep 'em all.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

"DUDE" relax, it was just a simple question, i totally agree that ken holland is a phenomenal GM but i just couldn't understand that trade that's all.

Well, do you understand it now? I think our esteemed colleagues here have pretty much hit the nail on the head that Mattias wasn't much of a prospect when he was dealt. His projections weren't for much more than a 3rd liner.

We needed to get bigger and stronger up front and there weren't very many pickings. Bertuzzi was had fairly cheap, especially when you look at what Burke gave him after that and what the Flames just gave him. Although if he's healthy the Flames might have a good singing there.

Bert was supposed to be immediate help for an immediate Cup win that year. Mattias was years away from cracking our lineup.

Not too difficult to understand this trade at the time it was made.

PS: Where were you when this trade was made? Not a Wings fan at the time or what?

Edited September 25, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[GoWings1905 2,694]

It is easy for all of us to be GM's when we can do it in hindsight. Matthias, at the time, was not a highly rated prospect in the Red Wings organization. Trading for Bertuzzi for that playoff run was on paper exactly what the Red Wings needed - size and a physical power forward. Ultimately Bertuzzi was a flop here, but it worked out worse for Anaheim than it did for the Red Wings.

Everyone makes mistakes. Luckily Holland's are few and far between.

[T.Low 1,011]

PS: Where were you when this trade was made? Not a Wings fan at the time or what?

Yeah, whats up with that?!! "Not around" at the trade deadline?

[Konnan511 1,736]

I wasn't around here when it happend in feb 07 but what was ken holland thinking at the time... he needed "grit" for the playoffs??? and traded a really promising talent with powerforward size..What was his explanation?

ZOMG, bash bash bash, bash....bash

[Doggy 130]

Hindsight's 20/20. It was a good trade at the time. Woulda been a great trade if we had've won the Cup.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

is this actually going to be discussed? Talk about beating a dead horse!

[Guest Crymson]

I wasn't around here when it happend in feb 07 but what was ken holland thinking at the time... he needed "grit" for the playoffs??? and traded a really promising talent with powerforward size..What was his explanation?

Oh, for the love of EVERYTHING.... IF YOU WANT TO TRADE FOR SOMEONE, YOU NEED TO TRADE SOMETHING FOR THAT SOMEONE. At the time, Bertuzzi was still capable of being quite the power forward. If he'd done better and helped us win the Cup, you wouldn't be asking this question. When measured against what the Sharks paid for Guerin, what the Predators paid for Forsberg and what the Thrashers paid for Tkachuk, we got Bertuzzi for nothing.

Hindsight is 20/20.

[daniel1 32]

Oh, for the love of EVERYTHING.... IF YOU WANT TO TRADE FOR SOMEONE, YOU NEED TO TRADE SOMETHING FOR THAT SOMEONE. At the time, Bertuzzi was still capable of being quite the power forward. If he'd done better and helped us win the Cup, you wouldn't be asking this question. When measured against what the Sharks paid for Guerin, what the Predators paid for Forsberg and what the Thrashers paid for Tkachuk, we got Bertuzzi for nothing.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Every year at the trade deadline Holland has to balance giving his team the best shot at winning the cup vs. not selling too much of the future so that we can't be competitive in subsequent years. I think it's most amazing that Holland managed to KEEP Dats, Z, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler and Kronwall when many, many, teams inquired about each of them at some point in their development and Holland resisted the urge to package them up around the time Yzerman and Shanahan were nearing the end of their tenure here. for one last "run" at the cup before Stevie was finished. He easily could have got several established vets near the end of their career at the trade deadline for a number of years if he had been willing to package up a Datsyuk with a Kronwall for example in a deal. My biggest compliment towards Mr. Holland is not so much for the trades he's made as it is for having the restraint and self control to NOT make the trades that would have seen us part with Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Hudler, etc when we as fans still questioned their value and they as players hadn't proven themselves yet.

If parting with Matthias is the worst Kenny has done while keeping all the aforementioned guys as well as being able to add Stuart and Hossa then I think it's rather unanimous that he's the best GM in the league. Let's keep those Cups coming our way Kenny!

[Konnan511 1,736]

Mindfly, i know you aren't from North America and are just curious. Basically the Wings were labeled as too soft going into the playoffs, so they needed to add some power into the line-up. At the trade deadline after many teams gave up their farms for rentals, Holland traded a pick and a COMPLETELY unknown Matthias for a "hopefully" rejuvenated Bertuzzi. Bert played decent during the playoffs and showed flashes of him old self. Holland wanted to sign him for a year, but Bert wanted security; Burke swooped in and signed Bert and we were left w/o Shawn, a pick, and Bert; The Wings were left with cap relief and the ability to focus on other prospects i.e. Ritola, Helm, McGrath and other Wings' prospects.

[Guest mindfly]

I just think bertuzzi haven't been good since 2003 with näslund and the fellas in vancouver, but thanks for the information

[egroen 384]

If you remember back to what was being given up for some of those trade deadline deals, Holland came off smelling like roses despite Bertuzzi not panning out that well... and the Wings got further into the playoffs than the other teams who made big-time acquisitions.

[Guest Crymson]

Mindfly, i know you aren't from North America and are just curious. Basically the Wings were labeled as too soft going into the playoffs, so they needed to add some power into the line-up. At the trade deadline after many teams gave up their farms for rentals, Holland traded a pick and a COMPLETELY unknown Matthias for a "hopefully" rejuvenated Bertuzzi. Bert played decent during the playoffs and showed flashes of him old self. Holland wanted to sign him for a year, but Bert wanted security; Burke swooped in and signed Bert and we were left w/o Shawn, a pick, and Bert; The Wings were left with cap relief and the ability to focus on other prospects i.e. Ritola, Helm, McGrath and other Wings' prospects.

The Wings were also left with the Stanley Cup at season's end.