Wings looking to trade Quincey

[skacore 2]

Whats an enforcer gonna do in situations like that? You got a guy like Pronger, who's gonna throw cheap shots, but he's a star and doesn't often drop the gloves. He's not gonna waste his time with some border-line NHL enforcer, and he's not gonna be scared.

Here's some food for the thought... why is Pronger deemed untouchable? 6'5 is a factor but the #1 reason no one goes after Pronger is because he's on the Ducks and every single player/team/coach in the league knows that if you want to play that kind of game against the Ducks, that's how their built. They've got a fighter in every weight class and then some, they simply won't allow you to manhandle their star player, their (former) captain.

Let's say Lappy runs Lidstrom again this year and KO's him, only this time, Downey was claimed off of waivers. Nothing happens to Lappy all year long, if he ran Pronger out cold, he'd pay the price every single regular season game for the rest of the year.

It all depends how teams are built, you think if Lidstrom drilled a player from behind head first into the boards, he is all of a sudden untouchable? I don't think so.

[skacore 2]

Drake was an enforcer?? btw, bad example with Pronger... Drake was his teammate in St. Lou far longer than he was with anyone here in the D.

is Dallas Drake straight up considered an enforcer? no, of course not.. did he enforce a little bit last year, and has he throughout his career? yes.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Drake was an enforcer?? btw, bad example with Pronger... Drake was his teammate in St. Lou far longer than he was with anyone here in the D.

He'd still go after Pronger if he hurt a teammate. Drake was teammates with Steve Yzerman, yet he squared him up pretty often after leaving.

I think the point hes making is that Drake played with a dirty edge - one that he toned down when he was with Detroit, but a little dirty nonetheless. The Wings dont really have that right now, and its generally because theyre hard to find. Drake walked a pretty fine line, and he played fairly clean while in Detroit for the 2nd stint. Those guys can't be found at every turn. Thats why the Wings have kept guys like Downey and DMac. They don't have to worry about those guys spearing, smashing heads from behind, or pulling the lumber jack chop. Most guys that are enforcers, thats typically a concern. A guy like Carcillo would be awesome, but the guy admittedly wants to smash heads after a fight with his girlfriend. The Wings can't have that explosive aggressiveness on the team. It goes against their organizational values.

Id be interesting to hear some names that people think would fit a Drakian model..

[Doc Holiday 0]

Pretty sure you're talking about Franzen getting slashed by the backup goalie, but again another example. Just like Lebda getting knocked the f*** out by Langkow and Conroy high sticking Homer in the face, both of them missing the next game. Detroit didn't win the Cup that year did they? Nope, but we did get to enjoy Homer getting plastered up against the boards by Pronger in the Anaheim series though as the Wings struggled to keep players in the lineup.

It's called "Imposing Your Will" and other teams know if the Wings can't stop it, their doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU!

esteef

The reason I brought it up was because the next game, after getting slashed, Franzen scored the game winner and it ended the series. Calgary tried to be cheap and impose their super duper will but it bit them in the butt and Detroit prevailed. And I don't believe Anaheim imposing their super duper duper will wasthe reason Detroit lost that series.

[Opie 308]

#3. Trade Quincey for one?

Homer getting smacked around with no response has an effect on a team's psyche, just as much as our goalie's getting run with no response. Collectively, no one doing anything hurts the team.

Because teams win it that don't have an enforcer doesn't mean that the lack of an enforcer caused them to win.

esteef

Impact the psyche, IMPACT THE PSYCHE, what did Homer do on his very next shift, if not the very next shift one relatively quickly, after the Pronger hit?

[up2here 41]

Oh we are still over the cap? Damn. My mistake, too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing Quincey on this team.

We're currently just under the cap due to excpetions on Chelios and Howards contracts because of their IR status. When they get back more decisions will likely have to be made.

[Winther 6]

Just off the top of my head (mind you these guys aren't available nor might the Wings mgt have any interest in them):

Ethan Moreau, Jamal Mayers, Jason Smith, Steve Staios, Steve Ott, Scott Hartnell, Craig Rivet, Raffi Torres, Jarko Ruutto, Wayne Primeau, & one of my favorites Chris Neil.

Chris Neil would be the ideal fit for this team, McCarty of old v2.0. Agitator, hitter, grinder, fighter and with a bit of a scoring touch. The best part is he could be an everyday player, not another Downey/McCarty of now (not that i dont like what they do and bring to the team!).. Anyone else on that list that have all those intagibles?

[12Newf 0]

Chris Neil would be the ideal fit for this team, McCarty of old v2.0. Agitator, hitter, grinder, fighter and with a bit of a scoring touch. The best part is he could be an everyday player, not another Downey/McCarty of now (not that i dont like what they do and bring to the team!).. Anyone else on that list that have all those intagibles?

i watch neil like 70 times a year at least and yes he does have some scoring touch, a knack for pissing people off, and hits like a madman. i actually believe he succeeds in making people take notice of him being on the ice and maybe start hearing footsteps and hesitating.

now the problem with neil is that he takes a lot of stupid and selfish penalties. he is constantly getting interference and roughing penalties (averages 200 PIM) and i believe this is something the wings are uninterested in but i have to admit he would be one of the most sought after players of this type.

on a side note: watching him play on a line with ruutu this year should be something to see and the fact that they no longer have mcgrattan means he may be fighting some more.

[BigTex 1]

I just finished reading Bucci's Eastern Conference preview. Based on his assessment of the Flyers, I think that they would be an excellent destination for Quincy to go if he's traded. They're in a spot to compete for the Cup and need more solid defensemen. PLUS, they're in the Eastern Conference, makes a trade easier to complete.

You read it here first, it just makes good sense for both teams, IMO.

Philly could trade what they expect to be a late 2nd or 3rd rounder for him and would get better in an area they need help in for cheap. The Wings would get a pick they'd like and could make something of without messing with their core players.

[Shaman 713]

Now I know this will get me killed, but what about Stuart and Kronwall, they are both going out their every night and ringing people's bells, its not hard to tell Kroner or Stuart to take a run at Pronger when they were putting Crosby the untouchable in his place...

[Shaman 713]

While both Kronner, & Stewy may put the "hurt" on an opponent - playing cheap/dirty/taking runs really isn't their fortae...Plus we don't want either of those 2 guys penalised/ejected/suspended/injured via retaliation since they're our #3/#4 Dmen...Better off having Dmac, or Downey playing that way since it's what they're accustomed to.

Well, again, the point is, if someone like Pronger does it (the #1-2 Dman) we have players that can respond in kind.

[Winther 6]

i watch neil like 70 times a year at least and yes he does have some scoring touch, a knack for pissing people off, and hits like a madman. i actually believe he succeeds in making people take notice of him being on the ice and maybe start hearing footsteps and hesitating.

now the problem with neil is that he takes a lot of stupid and selfish penalties. he is constantly getting interference and roughing penalties (averages 200 PIM) and i believe this is something the wings are uninterested in but i have to admit he would be one of the most sought after players of this type.

on a side note: watching him play on a line with ruutu this year should be something to see and the fact that they no longer have mcgrattan means he may be fighting some more.

Ah, true abouot the PIMs. Didn't think about that . Although i think that would be something Wings management would fix (or at least to some extent). I'm rooting for signing him next summer! (UFA by then)

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Reason I'll miss Drake. Unfortunately, Pronger didnt take a cheapshot at anyone while he was here. Because Drake would've ran his head so far into the boards he'd know all of the information on the drivers license of the guy sitting in the front row.

But I do think an enforcer stops cheapshots, to an extent. Pronger is gonna do his thing because he's 6'5 and gets 60 points a year as a defenceman. He does what he pleases, but we have guys that can give it back to him. Doesnt have to be an enforcer, but if they go in first, usually ends up better. I mean, would we want Datsyuk throwing punches at Pronger? Of course not. (Even though that'd be friggin awesome.)

This debate has raged forever.

I'm a fight fan. I love fights. I loved getting into fights. Sometimes when the wife annoys me I wish I could go and drop the gloves and just punch somebody I don't know mercilessly in the face.

That being said, at the NHL level I don't think you can definitely say either way that having an enforcer deters cheap shots. However, I do know for a fact that not having an enforcer doesn't deter cheapshots. It's the lesser of two evils for me. I'd rather have a tough guy than not have a tough guy.

He may not be able to stop a cheap shot. But retaliation has its upside. DMac on Claude being a prime example. And there's always something to be said for the NHL enforcer when the guy on the other team takes a shot at one of your star players and then your tough guy goes over to their star player and says, "if I can't get at him, i'm gonna go after you"

That s*** might not intimidate a fellow enforcer, but it sure as heck might intimidate a skilled-non fighter.

In the end, give me heavyweight calibre fighter who can play every game and take a regular shift. And as a cherry on top, fill the lineup with 3-4 other guys who are bonafide players but don't take no s*** from nobody. I'm talking about guys like Shanny, Mayers, Morrow, Jason Smith, Tocchet, Travis Moen, Gary Roberts, etc.....

[2probert4 8]

Agree completely. Some people here seem to think because Quincey is "tough", that alone should keep him on the roster. The fact is Quincey was the worst defenseman during the pre-season. Quincey got outplayed by his competition and deserves to go.

Quincey has more trade value than Lilja and or Lebda.....He's also had some type of back injury that he's had to take a couple of injections to help with the problem. The people here at LGW make him out to be crap, but Babcock and Holland both have said time and time again he is NHL ready. He would not pass through waivers if they tried to do that. Holland going into panic mode over Stuart not resigning immediately and resigning Lilja is why they are in this dilemma of having to move someone....Meech stays because he plays forward / defense ....

Don't get me wrong, Im not some sort of Quincey mark, but I would rather see these young guys play than the 2 bums that are out there in the 3rd pairing.... Most people on here see 1 or 2 games for most of these young guys then determine if they are "great" or "terrible" If Quincey were garbage, they would just cut him loose......People on here will defend Lebda and Lilja until they cost us a game or something and we'll get a post saying "we should have kept quincey"

[Shaman 713]

The Red Wing rosters from our back to back Cups in '97/'98 were the epitome of tuffness; even guys like Rouse/Macoun weren't known for their fighting prowess, but they never backed down when challenged...I'd like to see a few more of those types on the team.

The problem is the instigator penalty and the fact that more and more players in the minors and college aren't trying to get picked as the enforcer, but more for other skills. In the near future it will be hard to find someone with the enforcer skill set (ability to fight, hit, grind, and possibly a scoring touch) youll see more and more (even to an extent today) that you try and convert someone who has one or 2 of those abilities into a more well rounded enforcer and most teams won't do that because: A they dont believe its a good use of their minor league development time, B The preference of most teams to go after players with more pure goal scoring abilities (skate, pass, shoot, etc) over the enforcer skill set, and C Tbh people who can score get paid more, if you can put up 20 goals you get more money, whereas 20 fights will get you less.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Dunno if I'd say it's the instigator penalty that's creating more skill oriented players (though the shift in the game towards the reduction of fighting has had it's affects) - however I agree that we don't see the types of players that were once common in the NHL from the 1970's thru the late 1990's.

I also believe the influx of Euros has had a large impact; many skilled players from Europe has placed a greater emphasis on the skill aspect of the game in which the USA, & Canada are doing their best to keep up, & in doing so less emphasis is being placed on the ruff stuff. This is why we are seeing alot more speed/creativity amongst N.American skaters, & less thuggery (or so to a certain extent).

It's not a bad thing, but just another direction the game is going I guess...That said - I still miss the game of "yesterday".

You and me both my friend.

[Echolalia 2,961]

So the deadline to get rid of him has passed, right? What happened?

[Konnan511 1,736]

So the deadline to get rid of him has passed, right? What happened?

I think it is the deadline to recall players form the AHL w/o having to go through waivers...but I could be terribly wrong.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Just off the top of my head (mind you these guys aren't available nor might the Wings mgt have any interest in them):

Ethan Moreau, Jamal Mayers, Jason Smith, Steve Staios, Steve Ott, Scott Hartnell, Craig Rivet, Raffi Torres, Jarko Ruutto, Wayne Primeau, & one of my favorites Chris Neil.

I should've put something in there about "cheap" and/or "available".

For a long time I've wanted one of Chris Neil or Raffi Torres in a Wings uniform. Thats exactly the type of guy that this team needs in terms of being an all-out hitter, a willing fighter, and a guy who has adequate skill.

Mayers is the guy that makes the most sense. Its too bad hes got the two year deal with Toronto now.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think it is the deadline to recall players form the AHL w/o having to go through waivers...but I could be terribly wrong.

No it was the deadline to have your team under the cap. Chelis injury gives them cap relief, so they have until he returns to make a move with Quincey.