Red Wings goaltending future

[miller76 463]

I typically pass on the goalie threads, but some info I have been reading and hearing on xm has me wanting to discuss and share. Mark Spizzirri a columnist for Hockeybuzz, (a site where you believe want you want to believe). Anyways I didn't put a whole lot of stock in this when I read it initially.

Here it is:

Unfortunate that Jimmy Howard returns to Grand Rapids once again. However, the talk begins to mount that perhaps he will never become the Red Wings #1 goalie that everyone believed he would be a mere couple years ago. With the arrival of Daniel Larsson from Sweden to split time with him in Grand Rapids, along with the 1st round selection of Thomas McCollum, who is expected to shine for the U.S.A. in this winter's World Junior Hockey Championship, Howard's days could be numbered as the Wings top goaltending prospect in the system. Some might argue he has already passed that torch. It will be interesting to see if Howard finally dominates at the AHL level this season despite the disappointment of again failing to land an NHL roster spot.

He has never truly dominated at the AHL level and because of this, it likely played a big factor in Holland picking up Ty Conklin this summer instead of granting Howard the opportunity to play 25-30 games behind Chris Osgood.

Then today xm 204 touched on, if the Red Wings can repeat and so on. They proceeded to give Osgood credit, which was cool. But then talked about how Howard had to be disappointed with the signing of Conklin. And the likelyhood of him eventually playing elsewhere was probable.

Again, imo, this seems like pure opinion. But it kind of makes you think about the direction of this teams goaltending future after Osgood.

Thoughts:

[Opie 308]

I would love to see J-Ho in a wings Jersey, and next year will be the telling year, with no waiver exemptions he will be with the club or not.

It is hard to base the teams opinion of him on just the fact he is in the AHL, as Ericsson is also being sent down and the team is high on him. The main difference being the team has stated how high they are on Ericsson and said very little about Howard.

Being from Maine and a big fan of the Black Bears I am pulling for J-Ho and would love to see him eventually between the pipes, but if he is not good enough for the Wings I wish him luck elsewhere, but that will all be looked at next pre-season when it will surely be do or die for Jimmy.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

TBH, I've all but lost hope in Howard. He hasn't proven he can be the guy to fill the number 2 spot let alone the number 1 in Detroit. I was so high on this guy his first couple seasons in the AHL, but he just hasn't gotten the consistency thats needed not only at the AHL level but the NHL.

I truly believe that this was his year to finally take charge and beat out Conkblcok for the backup job. Kenny told him to use that signing as motivation to win the job and the fact of the matter is he didn't. It sucks to hear it after all he was touted as being, but at some point you have to face reality. It looks like Larsson may have a better chance of being the number 1 (or even McCollum) before Howard.

[puckloo39 5,686]

what Mac said. I hear from friends who were there that Larsson was pretty impressive at camp. McCollum, as well.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Goalies are weird. I haven't given up hope for Howard yet.

The Wings are relatively deep in goal now, with McCollum and Larsson. If you still consider Howard a prospect, then surely one of these three will have to stick.

Edit: Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in Howard playing another year in the AHL. Conklin was signed for cheap don't forget. That kind of bargain vs the uncertainty of Howard's status made it a no-brainer for Holland. Also, it's mostly Babcock who has raved about Ericsson and we know that Babcock rarely ever praises his goalies in this way.Think about it. When has Babcock ever really gushed about any of the Wings net-minders? Goalies always get different treatment from the Wings' brass.

Edited October 9, 2008 by rick zombo

[FinRedWing 172]

It'll be Larsson or some UFA who'll be our #1 after Ozzie.

And I hope McCollum isn't going to be another Howard,"He'll be our starter for years to come"-hype has certainly started already.

[Dawgs 0]

Im not counting Howard out at all. Hes been solid in the AHL and was as good as Conklin in the preseason. Goaltenders develop much slower than skaters and another year in G.R. playing 45 to 55 games will do him good. Next year when hes out of options, I have little doubt he's Ozzies backup. After a couple years behind Ozzie is when the real decision will be made. By that time Larsson will be out of options and ready for the NHL.

I rarely listen to national reports regarding Red Wings personnel moves. They apply logic that pertains to the rest of the NHL but doesnt work with us. Our position allows us to work things differently.

[DYags 0]

Howard is far from being traded away in my opinion. As much as Holland said that Jimmy should use the signing of conklin as motivation, I just don't buy it. Jimmy was never going to picked over Conklin.. in the cap world it wouldn't make any sense. The Wings develop their players slowly as we all know. Just because he's still in the minors doesn't mean he isn't in managments plans.

I don't think we can really discuss this until next training camp when its going to be a dog fight between Howard and Conklin. Now, I've heard noting but good things about Larsson, but I don't think he will take president over a kid we've been developing since 2002. Managment will keep him in the minors for atleast another year and have him fight it out with Conklin or Howard for #1 spot the following year.

Atleast that's what I'm predicting way ahead of time

Edited October 9, 2008 by DYags

[DYags 0]

I rarely listen to national reports regarding Red Wings personnel moves. They apply logic that pertains to the rest of the NHL but doesnt work with us. Our position allows us to work things differently.

Well put, BTW

[eva unit zero 271]

Howard can no longer fall back on 'goalie of the future' to win him the job for next year...because the fact of the matter is, unless he works his ass off, he's NOT the goalie of the future. That's Daniel Larsson, the way things are set up right now.

By the time Chris Osgood retires, Larsson will be ready to take over, or darn close to it. Howard at best will have a short window to grab hold of that job. Unless he works his ass off this season and takes the backup job sometime this season or next year and positions himself properly.

If Howard is outplayed by Larsson in the AHL this season, the chances of him still being in the organization are pretty slim next season. If management feels he's worth keeping on as a backup, and he's either better than Conklin at that point, or Conklin chooses to leave, that's about the only way Howard sticks around if Larsson outplays him. If he is the defined NHL backup while Larsson is the AHL starter. Much like Ericsson and Meech currently; different developmental roles, one player likely waiting to leapfrog the other's position on the depth chart.

The last scenario, with Conklin leaving and Howard taking on the backup job, is what I expect to happen. The Wings have invested a lot of time in Howard and have given up on a few goaltending prospects who had solid potential without giving them a meaningful look because they had Howard, who was drafted as a 'Best Player Available' and not because the team felt it was lacking in quality goaltending propsects; former Swedish Olympian Stefan Liv being the most notable prospect given up in that regard.

[Guest Four]

Larsson, I feel, will be our future.

[Reds4Life 51]

Larsson is the most gifted goalie we have imho.

[CAredwingsfan91 28]

said it before and i'll say it again i was never a fan of howard dont know why but i just never liked him, but good luck to where he may end up

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Larsson is the most gifted goalie we have imho.

You forget "at the moment." Larsson is 4 years older than McCollum. Thats eons in terms of development for goaltenders. I never expected Howard to be a great goalie and I still expect him to be a goaltender in the Legace/Mason/Conlkin mould.

Like someone else said, goaltenders are funny creatures. Ty Conklin didn't do much of anything until, what? age 30? Look at Kiprusoff. Zero to Hero in one or two years in his late 20s. Too much is made of young goaltenders not performing well.

[eva unit zero 271]

You forget "at the moment." Larsson is 4 years older than McCollum. Thats eons in terms of development for goaltenders. I never expected Howard to be a great goalie and I still expect him to be a goaltender in the Legace/Mason/Conlkin mould.

Like someone else said, goaltenders are funny creatures. Ty Conklin didn't do much of anything until, what? age 30? Look at Kiprusoff. Zero to Hero in one or two years in his late 20s. Too much is made of young goaltenders not performing well.

I don't know about you, but I was calling Kiprusoff the best prospect of the bunch before San Jose traded Hedberg. He oozed with potential and it took way longer than it should have to come together. Not to mention that, but he seems to be falling apart rapidly as well. Kipper should have had a much better career than what he'll end up with.

[CenterIce 83]

Howard is farther along in his development than Larsson and McCollum. Also, Conklin was signed to a one year deal. They wanted veteran insurance, to keep the window open, to get Stanley Cup number 12. I know it isn't a gaurantee, Howard has to earn it, but Holland has said that Howard will be the back-up next year. I will have to see if I can find where that was posted.

[Rivalred 630]

Luongo or Miller....

[Scotty 0]

I really like Howard and I hope that he pans out just like they thought he would when they drafted him. He does have a tendency to give up some soft goals but with a little work he could be dominate for years to come. Anyway, when Osgood retires,

1. Liv (just kidding) ---- Howard

2. Larsson/ McCollum

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Has anyone thought of the idea that we could trade off Ty at the trade deadline, and bring up Howard towards the end of his AHL season to play for detroit? It would free up space (not much considering that Ty was cheap) and allow our backup goaltender to have played first position in the AHL all season. It would allow more cash to put more butts on the bench (as far as two-ways are conserned).

Edited October 10, 2008 by CaliWingsNut

[Dawgs 0]

Has anyone thought of the idea that we could trade off Ty at the trade deadline, and bring up Howard towards the end of his AHL season to play for detroit? It would free up space (not much considering that Ty was cheap) and allow our backup goaltender to have played first position in the AHL all season. It would allow more cash to put more butts on the bench (as far as two-ways are conserned).

I dont see that happening. Babcock will want a veteran backup for the playoffs not a guy fresh off a season in the AHL.

[joshy207 156]

I have always considered Ryan Miller to be the benchmark for Howard. Not that they're equal goalies--I think Miller is definitely better. But their developmental paths were similar, starring in college and playing in the AHL for an organization deep in goaltending. Neither goalie has been rushed to NHL duty.

Buffalo allowed Miller to develop in the AHL until he dominated that league. He was 25 before he was on the NHL roster full-time. (Probably would have been 24 if not for the lockout.) Howard is still 23 and still on a similar path. While Miller put up better numbers in the A, Howard's NHL numbers are better than Miller's before he took over the #1 job in 05-06. I figure Howard will likely get at least a couple games for Detroit this year (injury/schedule/just a callup), will see 30-35 games playing behind Osgood next year, and will be in the Wings' lineup for some time.

[This Is Bida 0]

I'm sorry but I really just don't think Howard is what the Wings (or myself) expected. While I agree with some people that goalies take longer to develop he just hasn't had any consistency in even the AHL. From what I have seen of Conklin (and especially what he showcased last night) I would much rather keep him as our backup for even next year. I was really hoping that Howard would come into his own and be the Ryan Miller of the Red Wings but I just don't see it and truthfully I don't think the Wings organization does either. Who knows, I very well could be wrong but I'm hoping they keep Osgood/Conklin together until Larsson is ready.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...nding&st=20

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Bring back Hasek, Joseph, and Legace for one more run.

Or maybe perhaps Mr. Demon Goalie?

Seriously though, unfortunately I know little of what goes on in minor league hockey, so I am assuming that Howard and Larsson are still duking it out to eventually be #1 goalie here in a few years.

Edited October 15, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[ilmickeyli 40]

Bring back Hasek, Joseph, and Legace for one more run.

Or maybe perhaps Mr. Demon Goalie?

Seriously though, unfortunately I know little of what goes on in minor league hockey, so I am assuming that Howard and Larsson are still duking it out to eventually be #1 goalie here in a few years.

Mutant League Hockey FTW!