Holland's stance on Enforcers: Once and For All

[hockeysattva 8]

I think some people just fail to understand the evolution of hockey after the cap (and other changes as well).

Sometimes you lose players to changing philosophies, but you know in the case of Shany we didn't lose a gritty power-forward, we lost a former gritty power-forward...

I don't want to run down the line of each and every player that we lost, how we lost them, and why we can't get someone else like that again.

I remember some really tough teams in the late 90's. Martin Lapoint wore 20, he was tough, and I would love to have more guys like him.

But, the team can't just buy everything anymore. If you don't fit you aren't in sometimes its philosophy and sometimes its salary.

The worst gooning I have seen in recent years, was San Jose and then Anaheim (before winning the Cup) an enforcer would not have stopped it, and the powerplay didn't either. What do you do or say then?

I say, changes have to be made league wide, and you might not see some of the grit you love but the game will be better for it.

[Note: I think there should be no-touch icing to.]

[2probert4 8]

We never won anything with Grimson did we?

Went to the finals vs New Jersey, thats all......

[2probert4 8]

Probert was also scoring back then---- 13g/11a in '86-'87 and 29g/33p in '87-'88. As such, I don't think he's a good example to be using in this discussion.

Probert cleared a path for Stevie to score, and it was a different game back then... Downey wouldn't hurt the lineup that much, his line gets a few minutes a night at best....The way Bowman used to do it was if Grimson or McCarty screwed up, they sat the bench and others took turns filling that spot during the game. I am surprised that Downey didn't go somewhere and work on his skating / puckhandling during the offseason though, I figured he would have realized that he would need to be more productive to keep a spot on this team.

[egroen 384]

Laraque is probably the best enforcer in the NHL...

I actually think he is one of the worst enforcers in the NHL, and the fact teams rarely retain him is a testament to this. Best fighter? Sure. But he is too much of a gentleman to be a really effective "enforcer". He won't fight or deliver a message to anyone much smaller than him, and most players are much smaller than him. He only fights other heavy weights, in pre-meditated bouts, and certainly does not enjoy that role... his fights are getting less and less each year.

Give me a McCarty in his hey-day any time over Laraque. McCarty was not so big and monstrous that it was unfair if he would go after someone like Avery or Tootoo... and these are the guys that are the ones that really need a "message" sent to them; not the Parros' and other heavy weights of the NHL.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Laraque is not an enforcer. He's just some wrestler who has great strength and an uncanny ability to throw noogies to the back of someone's head as he's taking them down.

Also, as someone already said, he's too gentlemanly.

[Shockwave180 0]

Yawn.

Maybe we should wait till we're not defending Stanley Cup Champions to start complaining about having too little grit again.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yawn.

Maybe we should wait till we're not defending Stanley Cup Champions to start complaining about having too little grit again.

So let's just close down the forums until some season when we don't win a Cup. Then I guess all our opinions and speculation will be valid again.

Edited October 22, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Opie 308]

LGW Thread

This ladies and gentlemen is why I am "Anti-enforcer"*, not because I have fundamental problem with fighting in the game or that I want to see fighting banned/gone/extinct. But I don't want a Red Wing player going out with good intentions (Downey v. Lappy comes to mind) of protecting a teammate only to have it turn it into this fiasco. The league is creating this environment, the instigator rule creates this environment. Case in point, what Avery did against NJ in the post season, if players on the other team thought he was an embarrassment (which I am sure some did) they could have let him know what they felt and incurred the 5 minute fighting or 2 minute roughing penalty. Instead the league has set it up so that if that good intentioned player or some one wanting to teach respect of the game tries to share some wisdom with another player (using their fists) there are so many penalty minutes associated with it that it is not funny.

19 Minutes for retribution on what he thought was a player taking liberties with his teammate. BULLs***!!!

* Not my term, but the accepted term!

Edited October 22, 2008 by Opie

[Shockwave180 0]

So let's just close down the forums until some season when we don't win a Cup. Then I guess all our opinions and speculation will be valid again.

No, but complaining about Holland and claiming we don't have enough grit five games into the regular season when we just won the Cup with nearly the same roster is ridiculous, in my opinion.

[esteef 2,679]

No, but complaining about Holland and claiming we don't have enough grit five games into the regular season when we just won the Cup with nearly the same roster is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Not grit, a fighter. And c'mon we've been bitchin' about this for years!

Cheers!

esteef