Report: 2009-10 cap rumored to be $55M

[CenterIce 83]

that's BS.

see: Jeff Finger

or see: Edmonton Oilers

I think the cap floor has been a pain for some of these teams. Every time the ceiling moves up the floor is 16 million apart. Some teams have had to overpay some marginal players just to get over the floor. It might have been nice to allow for re-negotiations on some higher profile guys to reward them in those cases, but since we don't have that, they end up over paying a guy or two to get above the floor.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Yes. We should let him go and keep Franzen and Z. And please, stop talking like its an even choice between Hossa and Franzen and we can just chose either. Cause its not Hossa vs. Franzen, its more like Hossa vs. Franzen AND Filppula (or Cleary, etc). Hossa will cost A LOT, and though we all know he is the better player, its MUCH smarter to keep Franzen at 4.5-5 then Hossa at 8.

Thank you. Finally somebody that understands the Hossa vs Franzen debate.

[Dano33 41]

You can't trade Flip. He is an accomplished two way forward, who can play all situations. I think of him as a young Datsyuk (who he actually pairs of with in practice to learn some of his moves). The biggest knock on him is that he has to shoot more, but Datsyuk was the same way. Once Datsyuk started to shoot and score more, he took off.

Yet. I dunno about him, i think he may need to show us something by the end of the season to stay. If it's gunna be tight going into next year then there could be a need to dump him if he isn't performing.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Dano33

[Louisville 112]

Let's just stay over the cap lol

[eva unit zero 271]

You can't trade Flip. He is an accomplished two way forward, who can play all situations. I think of him as a young Datsyuk (who he actually pairs of with in practice to learn some of his moves). The biggest knock on him is that he has to shoot more, but Datsyuk was the same way. Once Datsyuk started to shoot and score more, he took off.

Filppula is not nearly as offensively capable as Datsyuk was at the same age. However, he is noticeably better defensively. The best description I have found for Filppula is a 'B' version of Zetterberg; a two-way forward who won't quite be the same dominant offensive and defensive package.

As far as Datsyuk is concerned, I think Hudler is a much closer comparison. He's playing a similar role to what Datsyuk played at the same age, but is outperforming him offensively by a large margin and is better defensively than future-Selke-winner Datsyuk was at the time.

Also...has anyone else noticed that Filppula is playing more ES time than Hossa?

[toby91_ca 620]

My bet is that it goes even lower than that and if it doesn't, I have to think something fishy is going on. Combine the current economic environment issues with the fact that the Cdn dollar has fallen about 20% or so in the last year, the caps gotta fall and by more than just $1-2 million I would think.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I know everyone is so quick to say Flip isn’t going anywhere, but you obviously haven’t crunched the numbers with a 55M cap projection if you think its not plausible.

Leino(.9) – Datsyuk(6.7) – Homer (2.25)

Franzen (4.2) – Hank (7.2) – Hudler (2.2)

Kopecky (.75) – Helm (.5) – Cleary (2.8)

Maltby (.88) – Draper (1.58) - X (.5)

Mac/Downey/X (.5)

Lids(7.45) – Rafalski(6)

Kronwall(3) – Stuart (3.75)

Lilja(1.2) – Ericsson (.9)

Meech (.5)

Osgood (1.4)

Howard (.75)

Total: 55.91M

Thats WITHOUT Hossa, Sammy, Filppula, Chelios, one of Downey or Mac, Conklin and Lebda. You can substitute Filppula for Hudler, but then we're even further over the cap. You can substitute Cleary for Filppula, but to my knowledge, Cleary has a NTC. You can substitute Franzen for Filppula, in which case you're then in cap compliance, but you've downgraded even further than you already have up front. As it stands, Hudler, Zetterberg and Franzen in this scenario are taking hometown discounts - each player could likely see 1M more on the market than what they're getting in this scenario, and if the cap DOES go down to 55, realistically the Wings can really only afford to give Franzen 4, Hudler 2, Zetterberg 7, and possibly have to consider trading Lija as well.

Basically, you either have to say goodbye to Franzen in addition to the other guys if you want to keep Filppula, or find a way to convince Rafalski and Cleary to waive their NTCs. One idea thats been floating around my head is seeing if Rafalski would be willing to head back to New Jersey, in a trade for either White or Martin. Its a downgrade defensively, but it would give us cap space and we'd likely get add-ins like a pick or a prospect. It might be an idea that is increasingly attractive to Lamo with Brodeur getting older and out long-term. He may want a veteran upgrade on defense, and Rafalski would be the ideal player considering his success within NJ's system.

Edited November 21, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[GoWings1905 2,694]

You can't trade Flip. He is an accomplished two way forward, who can play all situations. I think of him as a young Datsyuk (who he actually pairs of with in practice to learn some of his moves). The biggest knock on him is that he has to shoot more, but Datsyuk was the same way. Once Datsyuk started to shoot and score more, he took off.

I disagree. Filppula is very expendable if it gives the Red Wings a chance at keeping Hossa around. I like Filppula, but I wouldn't exactly call him accomplished. Filppula is good defensively, but pretty much every forward the Red Wings have fits that title. This season Filppula has 7 points (2 goals) and is minus one while playing over 16 minutes per game. He scored 9 of his 19 goals last season in a span of ten games. I don't doubt Filppula has the potential to be a more consistent goal scorer, but I don't think Filppula is a player the Red Wings need to keep at all costs.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I still don't think Flips is going anywhere. The lower cap ultimatly means that Zetter, Franz and Huds value will go down. If this cap is true, it's going to affect all players that need to be signed. Flips dodge the bullet though, he would never get $3mil if Kenny (or any GM) could predict future economy situations.

This also might deter GMs and players to want to sign long-term-contracts.

Zetter might get 6.5mil, Franz 3.5 - 3.75 and Hudler, it's hard to say.

We should remove Lilja and his $1.2 off there. We have capable guys making $.5 that could do a fine job.

If/when Flips turn into the player that wings mngment foresee, he'll be a bargain at $3mil long-term

You're missing that middle ground where Hudler and Franzen don't have to accept a pittance from the Wings. A team with cap space throws 5M at Franzen. Hell, if Franzen gets as many as 30 goals and 50+ points, mostly through his net-front presence, you could see a Ryan Smyth effect on the market. If Hudler goes to arbitration, which is basically entirely stats-based, he'll have a great argument in showing off his points per minutes played ratio, which could end up among the best in the league at seasons end. If not, teams are recognizing Detroit's tight financial situation and could throw 2.5M at Hudler, which Detroit may not be able to match, and results in the loss of a ton of points without impressive compensation - I'm not sure an offer of 2.5M warrants anyhing more than a 2nd round pick as compensation, but I'm not positive. Also, removing Lilja isn't worth removing since his replacement would be Ericsson, and I'm not sure a 300k difference is enough to lose your #2 PKer, a consistent hitter, and your leading shot-blocker.

Also, Hank isn't getting 6.5M with a lower cap. The cap was lower than 55M when Datsyuk signed, and he nabbed 6.7. Considering Hank's hardware is arguably more impressive, he'll lkely get nothing lower than 7.

Ultimately, this 55M projection means one thing - and thats that the Wings need to be incredibly creative in how they manage their cap space. Does that mean trading key names? Possibly. Is Filppula a goner? Most certainly not. But I laugh at the notion that this "accomplished" forward is untouchable when forwards all around him are having career years, despite fewer minutes in some cases.

Like I said earlier, Filppula hasn't entered into that circle of immunity, and his increasingly precarious situation on this team reminds me a lot of Kozlov - a guy that many thought was unlikely to be traded. Obviously, the situation was different, but the desperation may be paralleled as the season progresses.

Edited November 21, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[wingslionstigers 12]

I know everyone is so quick to say Flip isn’t going anywhere, but you obviously haven’t crunched the numbers with a 55M cap projection if you think its not plausible.

Leino(.9) – Datsyuk(6.7) – Homer (2.25)

Franzen (4.2) – Hank (7.2) – Hudler (2.2)

Kopecky (.75) – Helm (.5) – Cleary (2.8)

Maltby (.88) – Draper (1.58) - X (.5)

Mac/Downey/X (.5)

Lids(7.45) – Rafalski(6)

Kronwall(3) – Stuart (3.75)

Lilja(1.2) – Ericsson (.9)

Meech (.5)

Osgood (1.4)

Howard (.75)

Total: 55.91M

Thats WITHOUT Hossa, Sammy, Filppula, Chelios, one of Downey or Mac, Conklin and Lebda. You can substitute Filppula for Hudler, but then we're even further over the cap. You can substitute Cleary for Filppula, but to my knowledge, Cleary has a NTC. You can substitute Franzen for Filppula, in which case you're then in cap compliance, but you've downgraded even further than you already have up front. As it stands, Hudler, Zetterberg and Franzen in this scenario are taking hometown discounts - each player could likely see 1M more on the market than what they're getting in this scenario, and if the cap DOES go down to 55, realistically the Wings can really only afford to give Franzen 4, Hudler 2, Zetterberg 7, and possibly have to consider trading Lija as well.

Basically, you either have to say goodbye to Franzen in addition to the other guys if you want to keep Filppula, or find a way to convince Rafalski and Cleary to waive their NTCs. One idea thats been floating around my head is seeing if Rafalski would be willing to head back to New Jersey, in a trade for either White or Martin. Its a downgrade defensively, but it would give us cap space and we'd likely get add-ins like a pick or a prospect. It might be an idea that is increasingly attractive to Lamo with Brodeur getting older and out long-term. He may want a veteran upgrade on defense, and Rafalski would be the ideal player considering his success within NJ's system.

I just wanted to quote that one more time so nobody can miss it. Hossa is gone. Why? Read what this guy wrote. Theres also one more reason to add to that. This is pure speculation but theres no way in hell that Hossa would be willing to sign long term at a cut salary. Maybe for another year or even two at a cut salary but thats it. Again pure speculation tells me Zetterberg is willing to sign long term at a 7millish salary. Do you think were going to give up Zetterberg at 5 years 7 mill for Hossa at 1-2 years 7 mill? Nope. Wings look for the future > today.

So that ends both arguments. Theres no way in hell we can keep Hossa and Zetterberg and theres no way in hell were going to keep Hossa over Zetterberg. Were talking about already loosing a key player to just sign Zett and Franz. To sign Hossa were going to have to give up much more. Hossa is not better than 3-4 players that we have spent that last 4 years developing.

Don't count on Flip going anywhere. Hes far more important than putting up numbers. For f*** sake hes been playing on the 3rd line and hes a great pker. Do you guys not watch this guy play or what? Hes a very good player to have on the ice night in night out.

[dallas27 7]

Hossa is not better than 3-4 players that we have spent that last 4 years developing.

I don't even know where to begin...

Do you honestly believe what you just said? Hossa has been the best player on the ice all season...

Don't count on Flip going anywhere. Hes far more important than putting up numbers. For f*** sake hes been playing on the 3rd line and hes a great pker. Do you guys not watch this guy play or what? Hes a very good player to have on the ice night in night out.

So you are perfectly fine with giving a guy 3 million to play a role you can throw the league minimum salary at?

Edited November 21, 2008 by dallas27

[wingslionstigers 12]

I don't even know where to begin...

Do you honestly believe what you just said? Hossa has been the best player on the ice all season...

So you are perfectly fine with giving a guy 3 million to play a role you can throw the league minimum salary at?

Ok first. Yes Hossa has been arguably one of the top players on the Wings so far where did i say he wasn't? Did i say anything about one player vs Hossa? Where in the hell did i say Hossa vs one player??? Like i can't even believe i am wasting my time writing this because you know so little about hockey and what your replying to. Do you realize what i said was, if you keep Hossa you have to dump 3-4 guys to fit him under salary. do you know anything about the salary cap?

Two. This is where you make yourself look really stupid. Have you ever played hockey? Do you know anything about the sport besides you like seeing cool goals scored? Do you know that a player capable of preventing a goal is just as good as a player capable of scoring a goal? Do you see anything on the ice besides goals and sick plays? Do you follow and understand whats going on, on the ice at all times? Nope. Your just a casual guy watching hockey with a casual eye for hockey. So stop acting like you know whats going on, stop and listen. You might learn something. Go watch the penguins if you want to see solo super star talent goals scored all night long. This is the Detroit Red Wings where defence comes first, and flip is probably one of the best defensive players in the league you can get your hands on for around 3 mill. Yeah bud show me some players please that can take his spot at minimum salary. I can name guys that are paid 6 mill a season that couldnt take on his defensive role.

[theman19 47]

Ok first. Yes Hossa has been arguably one of the top players on the Wings so far where did i say he wasn't? Did i say anything about one player vs Hossa? Where in the hell did i say Hossa vs one player??? Like i can't even believe i am wasting my time writing this because you know so little about hockey and what your replying to. Do you realize what i said was, if you keep Hossa you have to dump 3-4 guys to fit him under salary. do you know anything about the salary cap?

Two. This is where you make yourself look really stupid. Have you ever played hockey? Do you know anything about the sport besides you like seeing cool goals scored? Do you know that a player capable of preventing a goal is just as good as a player capable of scoring a goal? Do you see anything on the ice besides goals and sick plays? Do you follow and understand whats going on, on the ice at all times? Nope. Your just a casual guy watching hockey with a casual eye for hockey. So stop acting like you know whats going on, stop and listen. You might learn something. Go watch the penguins if you want to see solo super star talent goals scored all night long. This is the Detroit Red Wings where defence comes first, and flip is probably one of the best defensive players in the league you can get your hands on for around 3 mill. Yeah bud show me some players please that can take his spot at minimum salary. I can name guys that are paid 6 mill a season that couldnt take on his defensive role.

Whelp, you where asking for this smack down.....

don't tell posters they have a splinter in there eye, when a board is hanging out of yours.

lets do this by the numbers, since you're such an incredible hockey fan that you can critique others by being a 12 years old in your responses.

A. hossa is an elite offensive AND defensive talent. Two way forward, those are the guys who can play real good like, on both sides of the puck. Hossa is on par with flip defensively and miles above him offensively.

B. Flip is not even close to one of the best Defensive playes in the league,..in fact he's not even top three on our team,.....Datsyuk and Draper both have selke's and Zetter was nominated. Brindamour, Madden, Paulsson,..seriously i could do that all day.

C. There are plenty of much much better Defensive players that make less than 3 million a year, Paulsson is an example of one, don't embarrass yourself by making me name more.

D. Defense indeed wins championships, but the best defense in the world needs someone to score the goals. Hossa has not only been healthy his entire career, he's also constantly put up 30+ goals seasons his entire time in the league. Other than Z and Dats, who on the wings has done that? Did we win a cup without him, yes we did. Could we do it again, Totally, but let me ask you this, if the hottest girl in the world wants to date you, do you turn her down? No,...if Hossa wants to play for the wings and it's a reasonable price, he's playing for us. Hollands not an idiot and players like franzen, flip, lebda,..guys replaced from within will be. You don't replace a guy like hossa. If he wants to play here everything will be done to accommodate him.

[Dabura 12,232]

Hossa is on par with flip defensively and miles above him offensively.

I'd say he's miles beyond Flip offensively and defensively. The Wings are blessed in having three of the world's best two-way players in Hossa, Datsyuk and Zetterberg (not in that order, mind you). And Draper deserves mention, of course.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Whelp, you where asking for this smack down.....

don't tell posters they have a splinter in there eye, when a board is hanging out of yours.

lets do this by the numbers, since you're such an incredible hockey fan that you can critique others by being a 12 years old in your responses.

A. hossa is an elite offensive AND defensive talent. Two way forward, those are the guys who can play real good like, on both sides of the puck. Hossa is on par with flip defensively and miles above him offensively.

B. Flip is not even close to one of the best Defensive playes in the league,..in fact he's not even top three on our team,.....Datsyuk and Draper both have selke's and Zetter was nominated. Brindamour, Madden, Paulsson,..seriously i could do that all day.

C. There are plenty of much much better Defensive players that make less than 3 million a year, Paulsson is an example of one, don't embarrass yourself by making me name more.

D. Defense indeed wins championships, but the best defense in the world needs someone to score the goals. Hossa has not only been healthy his entire career, he's also constantly put up 30+ goals seasons his entire time in the league. Other than Z and Dats, who on the wings has done that? Did we win a cup without him, yes we did. Could we do it again, Totally, but let me ask you this, if the hottest girl in the world wants to date you, do you turn her down? No,...if Hossa wants to play for the wings and it's a reasonable price, he's playing for us. Hollands not an idiot and players like franzen, flip, lebda,..guys replaced from within will be. You don't replace a guy like hossa. If he wants to play here everything will be done to accommodate him.

Why do you fail to understand this? Look at this information, read what i say bellow and get back to me bud.

I know everyone is so quick to say Flip isn’t going anywhere, but you obviously haven’t crunched the numbers with a 55M cap projection if you think its not plausible.

Leino(.9) – Datsyuk(6.7) – Homer (2.25)

Franzen (4.2) – Hank (7.2) – Hudler (2.2)

Kopecky (.75) – Helm (.5) – Cleary (2.8)

Maltby (.88) – Draper (1.58) - X (.5)

Mac/Downey/X (.5)

Lids(7.45) – Rafalski(6)

Kronwall(3) – Stuart (3.75)

Lilja(1.2) – Ericsson (.9)

Meech (.5)

Osgood (1.4)

Howard (.75)

Total: 55.91M

Alright well lets look at these numbers for an example. This is just this guys choosings it could be different but either way your going to loose core guys. We lost Sam, Flip, and Ledba and this is without Hossa. Now who do you erase to make 7-8 more mill for your Hossa? Want to get rid of Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen to? Ok your right dude Hossas way more important than half our team. Lets get Hossa and well bring up 10 new guys out of the AHL.

Sam, Flip, Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen is roughly the players that wouldn't be on your roster is Hossa was to be on it.

ON TOP OF THAT. If you think Hossa is going to sign with us "LONG TERM" for a cut salary your on crack. He might sign for a yearr or two at a cut salary and thats it. Holland is NOT going to give up his core future to have Hossa for a season.

Thanks for playing buddy.

[dallas27 7]

Ok first. Yes Hossa has been arguably one of the top players on the Wings so far where did i say he wasn't? Did i say anything about one player vs Hossa? Where in the hell did i say Hossa vs one player???

You didn't say only one player, you said three or four:

Hossa is not better than 3-4 players that we have spent that last 4 years developing.

What three or four players are you referring to? Hossa is just as good as Hank and Datsyuk. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say he isn't. So that's two. Who are these two other mystery players? Flip? I sure hope you don't think Flip is better than Hossa. Hudler? Not even close. *edit* Do you mean 3-4 combined players? Wording is subject... Even if that is the case Hossa + Leino + Helm is arguably a much better option than Mule + Flip + Sammy if money allows it, more on that below.

Like i can't even believe i am wasting my time writing this because you know so little about hockey and what your replying to. Do you realize what i said was, if you keep Hossa you have to dump 3-4 guys to fit him under salary. do you know anything about the salary cap?

I know exactly what that salary cap is. If you do a little digging you can find me saying it's all dependant on what Hossa wants, how much Mule wants, etc. etc. If he wants close to the same amount and Franzen continues putting goals in the net which will vault what he asks for (remember Flip is making 3 million, Franzen could easily go for 5 million) then letting Mule walk and trading Flip + Sammy seems like it is an option. Granted that's all speculation, and that is with the same cap. If the cap is lowered than obviously it's a different story.

Two. This is where you make yourself look really stupid. Have you ever played hockey? Do you know anything about the sport besides you like seeing cool goals scored? Do you know that a player capable of preventing a goal is just as good as a player capable of scoring a goal? Do you see anything on the ice besides goals and sick plays? Do you follow and understand whats going on, on the ice at all times? Nope. Your just a casual guy watching hockey with a casual eye for hockey. So stop acting like you know whats going on, stop and listen. You might learn something. Go watch the penguins if you want to see solo super star talent goals scored all night long. This is the Detroit Red Wings where defence comes first, and flip is probably one of the best defensive players in the league you can get your hands on for around 3 mill. Yeah bud show me some players please that can take his spot at minimum salary. I can name guys that are paid 6 mill a season that couldnt take on his defensive role.

You are the only one making yourself look stupid by making these ridiculous accustations. Before you open up your mouth and claim I only have a "casual eye" for hockey I suggest you look at my joined date. I've also been playing hockey for about 18 years now, including Juniors, so I think I have a good grasp of what goes on in a hockey game. Go ahead and name those guys that are getting paid 6 million. Although they may not be as defensivley responsible they are getting paid that much for a reason, mostly because they can put up more than 30 points a season unlike Flip. Flip at 3 million right now is a waste. He still has room for improvement, I can see him as a 50 point guy, which at that point 3 million for him is a steal. But not right now. You don't pay a guy 3 million to just play defense. That's why you have Draper's and Maltby's.

ON TOP OF THAT. If you think Hossa is going to sign with us "LONG TERM" for a cut salary your on crack. He might sign for a yearr or two at a cut salary and thats it. Holland is NOT going to give up his core future to have Hossa for a season.

Show to me where you saw that Hossa will absoultely not take a discount for a long-term contract to stay here. He's already taken a discount to play here. There is no evidence proving that he wouldn't take a discounted long-term contract to stay here.

Edited November 22, 2008 by dallas27

[Reilly 24]

Bye, Hossa

Edited November 22, 2008 by Reilly

[Dawgs 0]

There will be a need to trade a couple salaries to maintain a balanced salary structure over the next two or three years. Sammy, Lilja , Hudler, Lebda, Filppula all could be gone. Fortunately we are developing younger and cheaper alternatives. If the Wings were to replace Filpula, Lilja and Sammy with Helm, Leino and Erikkson the savings would be significant. The following year could see guys like Abdelkader and Kindl replacing Lebda and Hudler. We are in a good position and have enough depth to trade some of these salaries for prospects and picks. The money could even be there to resign Hossa and Franzen if Holland were to deem the 5 guys mentioned as being NHL ready right now.

Im not overly concerned with the Wings financial position. They have everything they need to move in multiple directions, all seeing them maintain a competitive edge. I trust Holland to do the right thing. Hes the best GM Ive ever watched.

[theman19 47]

Why do you fail to understand this? Look at this information, read what i say bellow and get back to me bud.

Alright well lets look at these numbers for an example. This is just this guys choosings it could be different but either way your going to loose core guys. We lost Sam, Flip, and Ledba and this is without Hossa. Now who do you erase to make 7-8 more mill for your Hossa? Want to get rid of Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen to? Ok your right dude Hossas way more important than half our team. Lets get Hossa and well bring up 10 new guys out of the AHL.

Sam, Flip, Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen is roughly the players that wouldn't be on your roster is Hossa was to be on it.

ON TOP OF THAT. If you think Hossa is going to sign with us "LONG TERM" for a cut salary your on crack. He might sign for a yearr or two at a cut salary and thats it. Holland is NOT going to give up his core future to have Hossa for a season.

Thanks for playing buddy.

I love how you ignore all of my points and focus on ones you think you can win.

i really don't feel like responding to someone who obviously has no idea what they're talking about.

The cap, up or down,...matters Zero,.....Its in Hossas court,..if he wants to be a red wing he will be, if he doesn't he won't. It's that simple.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Its comical that teams like Tampa Bay crashed and burned with three big guns and nothing else, and now it looks like Ottawa is heading in the same direction, and yet people STILL want to cut out half of our depth just to have three stellar players?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I don't even know where to begin...

Do you honestly believe what you just said? Hossa has been the best player on the ice all season...

So you are perfectly fine with giving a guy 3 million to play a role you can throw the league minimum salary at?

I agree with you on Filppula, but dude - reading comprehension? He said Hossa is not better than 3-4 players. Not THE 3-4 players. Hes talking about them as a whole, not individually. In that case, there is absolutely NO argument there. Having 3-4 players who can put up 40-60 points is better than 1 who can put up 90.

[dallas27 7]

I agree with you on Filppula, but dude - reading comprehension? He said Hossa is not better than 3-4 players. Not THE 3-4 players. Hes talking about them as a whole, not individually. In that case, there is absolutely NO argument there. Having 3-4 players who can put up 40-60 points is better than 1 who can put up 90.

People just dismiss Leino and Helm -who are are having great seasons so far- when it comes to this topic. Despite the fact that everyone here especially can't wait to see Leino. But he doesn't count for this topic of discussion, for whatever reason. You aren't sacrificing much depth if everything were to somehow magically align and work out and Hossa, Helm and Leino are in a Wings uniform next season.

[vangvace 12]

wait... wasn't it just this past offseason that this board was fine with Hossa being a 1 year wonder?

Hossa or Z was the question then. With the cap's possible fall, Z might even be a challenge to squeeze under the cap despite Youngguns' numbers.

[akustyk 84]

The cap, up or down,...matters Zero,.....Its in Hossas court,..if he wants to be a red wing he will be, if he doesn't he won't. It's that simple.

I don't think it's that easy. he may want to be a Red Wing but he may also be a well paid

player on a team with good shot on a cup. and there's a number of such teams for seasons

to come. there's many reasons for him not to accept Winged Wheel jersey for small money.

and Holland won't give him $8M+ contract because that would put about $36M+ of Wings

cap space in just 5 players (Nick, Zet, Dats, Rafalski and Hossa).

see: http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0809

that would leave some $20M left for some 15 players. minus ~$3M for Cleary, Flip and Stuart

who are already signed long-term it makes $11M for 12 players. even assuming we dress our

prospects to fill the voids with little cash it'd give around $4M for another 6 players so there

are $7M left for 6 players and some cushion to sign guys in case of injuries. that would be

less that $1M per player which is below Lilja-money, so you get the picture about what quality

of players (including goalies!!!) we would be able to dress.

take $8M out of this equation and there's much better options for Holland to buy 3 quality

lines instead of 1 über-line and so-so (at best) 3 lines.

there really isn't a chance to keep Hossa here. and as much as I personally enjoy his game

and skill set I'd rather see the Wings rolling 3 good lines instead of such 1 überline and

then have little to show

[YoungGuns1340 1]

wait... wasn't it just this past offseason that this board was fine with Hossa being a 1 year wonder?

Hossa or Z was the question then. With the cap's possible fall, Z might even be a challenge to squeeze under the cap despite Youngguns' numbers.

Z will not be a challenge to "squeeze" in under the cap with my numbers. If Z can't fit, then Lilja gets the boot. If thats not enough, then Hudler goes. If not, then Franzen goes. Zetterberg is under the cap no matter what - what matters is whether or not we can keep our depth. Hossa isn't even this conversation - hes a goner. Period.