Helm up, McCarty tp GR (+ line combos vs Habs)

[ArcticWing 0]

Because people are stupid, and only want to see lots of fighting. Its hard to use the brain you know! Uuuh more fights! Like thats so useful.. I like watching a good fight now and then, but i also think there needs to be a good reason. This showoff fighting has no point.

100% Agreed! What I'am going to say next, will get me well hated. The Avs feud what a joke! You already knew before the game even starts, that there would be plenty of regular fights and at least one those pathetic goalie fights. I remember watching those games back then and thinking, oh what a surprise another brawl. Roy Vs Osgood, how original and interesting. These kind of seat filler, just for show fights are booooooring. Sure there were a number of good fights, that served a purpose, but the whole thing went quickly from a good feud to complete comedy like WWE with skates on (the similarities where there). Very high comedy value.

Good fights belong in hockey, but seat filler fights don't .

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

You know they also used to use sticks that were made of wood and had no curve. Also goalies didn't have masks and there were no helmets. I guess if the Wings reverted back to those things we would be a lock for the Cup. The NHL of 2008 is NOT the NHL of 1980. That is really bad in some ways and really good in others but the REALITY for Holland and Babcock is playing the game under today's structure, setting, rules, interpretations, and style. A team that played like they did in the 80's would never be out of the box. If you don't like how the GAME is played now that is fine (there are things that I don't like about it) but the Wings are going to play a 2008 style game, win lots of games, lots of President's Cups and probably a few Stanley Cups.

True True. And in the end Bettman will be gone and hopefully the NHL can bring in a commissioner that has some knowledge of the game itself. One who can attract and keep a fan base, not forget the sport's roots, and use his position for the better of the game. Then maybe we'll have a mix of 1980 and 2008 hockey, and we can all be happy. Until then the Wings will do an excellent job playing by the rules and standards given to them and probably like you said continue to be a succesful franchise.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I'm beginning to think I'm too old for this board. Seriously. To think I thought Bettman was a horrid Business minded GM, not HOCKEY minded gm... and that he wasn't getting through to the kids out there. Apparently he is. Yikes, NHL is in more trouble than I thought if this is true.

Is there an age limit at this board? Like 25 and under? Seriously, it's so evident.

That has nothing to do with it. Most hockey fans don't like the chintzy calls for obstruction, holding, tripping, interference, etc. but this post has been about whether it was better to put Helm in this game. Having Mac on the team or in the game won't result in Bettman being less of a moron, hockey reverting to how it was played or called, more physicality in the the league, or much of anything except the Wings not putting the best product on the ice to win TONIGHT, with the best ability to win according to how rules are called in the "New NHL" and how the game is CURRENTLY played. The situation is not going to change in the near future so put the best team on the ice to win a game tonight not a game 28 years in the past. It's not a matter of preference it's a matter of reality - the game is what it is at the present not what it was in the past - and if we can't deal with that our team won't win.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

100% Agreed! What I'am going to say next, will get me well hated. The Avs feud what a joke! You already knew before the game even starts, that there would be plenty of regular fights and at least one those pathetic goalie fights. I remember watching those games back then and thinking, oh what a surprise another brawl. Roy Vs Osgood, how original and interesting. These kind of seat filler, just for show fights are booooooring. Sure there were a number of good fights, that served a purpose, but the whole thing went quickly from a good feud to complete comedy like WWE with skates on (the similarities where there). Very high comedy value.

Good fights belong in hockey, but seat filler fights don't .

Were you at the Ave/ Red Wings games? They were fun to be at. Also, the feud had nothing to do with putting butts in seats. It had to do with Draper getting his jaw wired shut for a month from a nasty and cowardly hit from C. Lemieux.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Dude your a ******* dumbass,

Not sure if that's allowed on this board Mods... but if it is, I'm out. I know I won't be missed, but I'm on a number of boards including the highly respected Motownsports.com and this would immediately result in a suspension.

[Frozen-Man 144]

They also used to sell out the Joe even know they had losing seasons too... What's your point? The Joe sounds like a funeral anymore.

So you want the goal to be to sell out the arena, not to win games? Should we give the Cup to the team that sells the most tickets throughout the season? I mean if that is more important than having a winning season the Cup should go to that team.

Also, the Joe sure didn't sound like a funeral during the Cup finals last year, it was pretty loud.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Silly argument here. I never said getting rid of one of your star premier forwards was smart. That's just silly... I never expected Gretzky to fight when I watched him play (although he did ocassionally), but I knew that he'd have protection if needed. That's all it is.

You can tell those who have played the game and those who have not. Having a guy that's willing to protect you resinates not only throughout the locker room, but on the ice.

It's scary to me to think that Gary Bettman has gotten through to so many of you... Very scary... From the days of ESPN's primetime to a tiny network called Versus, our 'faithful followers' of Bettman will lead us. Pretty soon... NHL, CONGRATULATIONS- PAY PER VIEW ONLY!

I could be wrong but im pretty sure Zetterberg has fought in international play, Datsyuk was about to hand a beat down to roberts last yer, not sure if hossa has fought but im assuming he has, the fact is they dont need to nobody takes runs at them.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I could be wrong but im pretty sure Zetterberg has fought in international play, Datsyuk was about to hand a beat down to roberts last yer, not sure if hossa has fought but im assuming he has, the fact is they dont need to nobody takes runs at them.

Is this a joke?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Not sure if that's allowed on this board Mods... but if it is, I'm out. I know I won't be missed, but I'm on a number of boards including the highly respected Motownsports.com and this would immediately result in a suspension.

It was dealt with.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Were you at the Ave/ Red Wings games? They were fun to be at. Also, the feud had nothing to do with putting butts in seats. It had to do with Draper getting his jaw wired shut for a month from a nasty and cowardly hit from C. Lemieux.

And on a team that had plenty of fighters. Oh wait I thought that you said that wouldn't happen, I mean we even had Mac in the game, no Wing should have been touched.

[ArcticWing 0]

Were you at the Ave/ Red Wings games? They were fun to be at. Also, the feud had nothing to do with putting butts in seats. It had to do with Draper getting his jaw wired shut for a month from a nasty and cowardly hit from C. Lemieux.

Sadly could watch those games only from TV. And I do hate Lemieux/Laperriere types, that is why there will always be room for a good fight, but too much is too much.

[The Secret 304]

I agree with the Lucic point. Lucic would be the ultimate presence on the Red Wings.

Man, I do understand where you are coming from. I have been a Red Wing fan since the very early 80's and I loved watching that style... super stars scoring in buckets and the Probie's of the world beating the tar out of people. But the game has changed a lot, for the better or the worst?! 80's hockey was more exciting and I miss it.

I will start another fire here in this thread by saying that what I feel our team lacks is Canadian content, like a Lucic or Getzlaf, to play the hockey we love.... Skating/Hitting/Scraping/Scoring. But winning is also nice and I think that Helm will contribute more overall then Mac will. I Love Mac and think he's been pretty good for his role but honestly that whole 4th line + Kopecky don't add much in term of offense or intimidation.

PS. I still hate Lilja and Sammy (even though they haven't been all that bad lately)

[lets go pavel 2]

And on a team that had plenty of fighters. Oh wait I thought that you said that wouldn't happen, I mean we even had Mac in the game, no Wing should have been touched.

shhhhh ... there's no room for reality here!

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

100% Agreed! What I'am going to say next, will get me well hated. The Avs feud what a joke! You already knew before the game even starts, that there would be plenty of regular fights and at least one those pathetic goalie fights. I remember watching those games back then and thinking, oh what a surprise another brawl. Roy Vs Osgood, how original and interesting. These kind of seat filler, just for show fights are booooooring. Sure there were a number of good fights, that served a purpose, but the whole thing went quickly from a good feud to complete comedy like WWE with skates on (the similarities where there). Very high comedy value.

Good fights belong in hockey, but seat filler fights don't .

Wow. I don't hate you and I'm sure you're a good person but this in my mind is probably the most dissapointing post I've read on these boards. The Wings wouldn't be were they are today if it weren't for the rivalry with Colorado, including their first Stanley Cup. The players themselves state the first brawl brought them together and helped solidify the cup run. I've just lost a little faith in humanity.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

i just remembered this, remember when Downey absoultely got his bell rung attempting a check on Kieth? I think he missed the rest of the game, its funny when guys like Z and D can stand up for themselves yet downey couldn't

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Is this a joke?

If you'd chill out and quit judging this whole board based on one thread, you'd eventually find out you've got plenty of support on thinking Bettman is bad for this league and doesn't understand the game. And on the issue of.. dare I say it (because it's such a controversial word here)... "grit."

I'm not really into fighting for fighting's sake (like McCarty's fight the other night), but have said several times that this roster has lost a lot of it's size and toughness from the Cup years that's never been replaced. Unfortunately under the cap those guys are harder and harder to come by. guys who will hit and fight and can also play the game. And it's not a priority for Holland, which is frustrating. I wish they had kept Quincey and lost Lebda, even if Quincey was a bottom pairing guy. When Ericsson comes up, I like the idea of having some big kids in the lineup who will knock guys around and drop the gloves.

But that's a whole other conversation. This is just Dmac getting sent down for a couple games to bring Helm up.

EDITED for clarity, hopefully. I think fights belong in the game. But i prefer the ones that mean something versus guys just dropping them for no reason on a faceoff like the other night.

Edited November 26, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Is this a joke?

Its not a joke Z has fought

[Guest E_S_A_D]

It was dealt with.

Thanks, I don't mind a good tongue lashin', but I won't call someone something like that. I disagree with the role of a well balanced team, but I like the fact that we're all Red Wings fans here.

Also, yes- I agree with the point Arctic about having a presence such as lucic or the "Canadian presence". Shanahan did his role perfectly... A shanahan -10 years type player would be ideal. I'm not so 'fight minded' that I don't realize that the Worrell type player days just don't last anymore. Boogaard can barely keep a roster spot and personally I think his NHL days are numbered, unfortunately.

With Thanksgiving approaching I hope we get a Win tonight against Montreal all as Wings fans. I certainly want wins more than fights, I just would feel sick if Datsyuk ends up with a bad injury to do an unanswered hit.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

I could be wrong but im pretty sure Zetterberg has fought in international play, Datsyuk was about to hand a beat down to roberts last yer, not sure if hossa has fought but im assuming he has, the fact is they dont need to nobody takes runs at them.

Would never happen bud, as for Hossa though there is a good youtube video of him smacking around Tverdovsky:

[egroen 384]

E_S_A_D,

Especially during the clutch & grab years, virtually anyone who was 6'3 and 200 lbs + and could lace up his skates without faling over was drafted in the 1st round. Most of those guys are busts now, but those types are still being drafted well ahead of their skill simply because they are big and can hit and fight.

The price the Wings paid to remain a good team (and not have to rebuild) was to mine europe for little-seen talent, and guys that fell in the draft because they were "too small". Fighting is rare in the european leagues so few of these guys have any experience at it at all.

I miss having a team like we had in the 90s, but I would not give up the winning teams we have enjoyed since then for some higher picks so we can see some rough & tumble canadian boys on the team now. In the past few years Holland has drafted some guys that can throw - like Abdelkader, Kindl, Ericsson - and we should be seeing them on the team within a couple years.

The fighter who can skate and play is coveted around the NHL right now, and you are going to have t give up a ton to get one. I'm just not sure how this team would aquire one at this point, and am content to wait till some of the younger guys make the team.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

If you'd chill out and quit judging this whole board based on one thread, you'd eventually find out you've got plenty of support on thinking Bettman is bad for this league and doesn't understand the game. And on the issue of.. dare I say it (because it's such a controversial word here)... "grit."

I'm not really into fighting for fighting's sake (like McCarty's fight the other night), but have said several times that this roster has lost a lot of it's size and toughness from the Cup years that's never been replaced. Unfortunately under the cap those guys are harder and harder to come by. guys who will hit and fight and can also play the game. And it's not a priority for Holland, which is frustrating. I wish they had kept Quincey and lost Lebda, even if Quincey was a bottom pairing guy. When Ericsson comes up, I like the idea of having some big kids in the lineup who will knock guys around and drop the gloves.

But that's a whole other conversation. This is just Dmac getting sent down for a couple games to bring Helm up.

EDITED for clarity, hopefully. I think fights belong in the game. But i prefer the ones that mean something versus guys just dropping them for no reason on a faceoff like the other night.

Gotta run to lunch, but quickly wanted to say- I 110% agree with this. I'm not judging this board, I've read it for a long time... I like it, and respect the posters greatly, that's why I finally signed up.

[lets go pavel 2]

Thanks, I don't mind a good tongue lashin', but I won't call someone something like that. I disagree with the role of a well balanced team, but I like the fact that we're all Red Wings fans here.

Also, yes- I agree with the point Arctic about having a presence such as lucic or the "Canadian presence". Shanahan did his role perfectly... A shanahan -10 years type player would be ideal. I'm not so 'fight minded' that I don't realize that the Worrell type player days just don't last anymore. Boogaard can barely keep a roster spot and personally I think his NHL days are numbered, unfortunately.

With Thanksgiving approaching I hope we get a Win tonight against Montreal all as Wings fans. I certainly want wins more than fights, I just would feel sick if Datsyuk ends up with a bad injury to do an unanswered hit.

I would feel sick if the hit is answered too ...

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Would never happen bud, as for Hossa though there is a good youtube video of him smacking around Tverdovsky:

Roberts is a ***** playingg way longer than he should, samuelsson could beat his ass

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Would never happen bud, as for Hossa though there is a good youtube video of him smacking around Tverdovsky:

Nice! Makes me like Hossa even more.

And yeah, Roberts would've killed Datsyuk had they actually squared off. But it would be stupid for Dats to do that. But a gloved punch to the face or the occasional two-hander is warranted to stick up for himself.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Is this a joke?

While Dats and Z are not fighters, they do not need a nanny to look after them. They are quite good at making the other guy miss on the hit or taking the hit without giving the puck away. The game is about scoring goals not winning fights after all.