Helm up, McCarty tp GR (+ line combos vs Habs)

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Thanks, I don't mind a good tongue lashin', but I won't call someone something like that. I disagree with the role of a well balanced team, but I like the fact that we're all Red Wings fans here.

Also, yes- I agree with the point Arctic about having a presence such as lucic or the "Canadian presence". Shanahan did his role perfectly... A shanahan -10 years type player would be ideal. I'm not so 'fight minded' that I don't realize that the Worrell type player days just don't last anymore. Boogaard can barely keep a roster spot and personally I think his NHL days are numbered, unfortunately.

With Thanksgiving approaching I hope we get a Win tonight against Montreal all as Wings fans. I certainly want wins more than fights, I just would feel sick if Datsyuk ends up with a bad injury to do an unanswered hit.

Datsyuk can't be run, the last itme i think he was run was by phaneuf, it hasen't happened in 2 years, it seems like you really are just waiting to cream yourself when it happens, it seems you have no respect for any of our top players.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Nice! Makes me like Hossa even more.

And yeah, Roberts would've killed Datsyuk had they actually squared off. But it would be stupid for Dats to do that. But a gloved punch to the face or the occasional two-hander is warranted to stick up for himself.

Well im not gonna argue that roberts iis more experienced but given that he is a weakiling 41 year old and datsuyuk is stronger than most people know and given the right time i think it could be fair, i exaggerated on the beat down thing, mostly because i think its a disgrace to the league that roberts is still playing

[egroen 384]

While Dats and Z are not fighters, they do not need a nanny to look after them. They are quite good at making the other guy miss on the hit or taking the hit without giving the puck away. The game is about scoring goals not winning fights after all.

Zetterberg and especially Datsyuk have made enough players out to hit them look like fools that it is almost shocking how little they are run. Sometimes Datsyuk is floating around there in slow motion, and you can tell he is just taunting them to make a run on him... so he can calmly skate around them.

[WingsZR2 1]

Is this a joke?

No, you're the joke. This thread was about a simple roster move based on a recent west coast swing and a game tonight against a very good Habs team. You seem to interpret this move as the Wings are folding because they are lacking an enforcer. D-Mac, while being one of my favorite Wings of all time, isn’t the same guy that scored that beauty in the 97 SCF. You then go on and on about the age requirements of this board catering to children and stating that you’re leaving because of it when you should stick around, by your own omission you’re a perfect fit. You have every right to ***** and moan as a sports fan regarding a change to the current structure of the Wings bench. While doing so, perhaps you should leave the comparisons to the teams of the 80’s out of the argument. Those days are long gone. It doesn’t necessarily have to do with Gary Bettman being the current commissioner, but more about the type of players in the game now. The game is faster, the so called heavyweights of the game are spending 50+ minutes a night on the pine. If all of this troubles you and your stance on the game maybe you should leave. Take all the time spent in this pointless argument, maybe go build yourself a time machine and go back to the 80’s. This so called soft team is a few months removed from winning a 4th championship in 11 years. They did it by outworking their opponents and basically sending them home to mommy. So what if we didn’t fight our way to the cup, we won it, and that’s why they play the game.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Well im not gonna argue that roberts iis more experienced but given that he is a weakiling 41 year old and datsuyuk is stronger than most people know and given the right time i think it could be fair, i exaggerated on the beat down thing, mostly because i think its a disgrace to the league that roberts is still playing

How is he a weakling? Because he's old? So is Chelios.

I think Datsyuk is strong on his skates, but that doesn't necessarily translate to fight strong.

Roberts is old, but he's 6'2" and 215 lbs to Datsyuk's 5'11" 185 lbs. Roberts has been in a few fights each season since he entered the league, and Datsyuk has never been. I'm just saying with size mismatch and experience, if anyone's getting beatdown, it's not Roberts.

[chrisdetroit 189]

If you'd chill out and quit judging this whole board based on one thread, you'd eventually find out you've got plenty of support on thinking Bettman is bad for this league and doesn't understand the game. And on the issue of.. dare I say it (because it's such a controversial word here)... "grit."

I'm not really into fighting for fighting's sake (like McCarty's fight the other night), but have said several times that this roster has lost a lot of it's size and toughness from the Cup years that's never been replaced. Unfortunately under the cap those guys are harder and harder to come by. guys who will hit and fight and can also play the game. And it's not a priority for Holland, which is frustrating. I wish they had kept Quincey and lost Lebda, even if Quincey was a bottom pairing guy. When Ericsson comes up, I like the idea of having some big kids in the lineup who will knock guys around and drop the gloves.

But that's a whole other conversation. This is just Dmac getting sent down for a couple games to bring Helm up.

EDITED for clarity, hopefully. I think fights belong in the game. But i prefer the ones that mean something versus guys just dropping them for no reason on a faceoff like the other night.

Kind of ironic because last year was a "cup year" and the only one that we lost was Dallas Drake.

This statement actually contradicts your entire argument.

[Z and D for the C 712]

This does suck. It's a direct result from McCarty fighting Darcy Hordichuk up by a goal the other day. The Wings are now officially, as if there wasn't any question, the softest team in the NHL again. Darcy Hordichuk was interviewed in between periods and said "McCarty said, sure I'll fight, I owe you one from the playoffs". Too bad, it earned him a spot in Grand Rapids.

The only cool thign is that this OFFICIALLY makes it easy for me now to know where to spend my money over the 10 days off for the Holidays from work... The Griffins, not the Red Wings.

Yeah, Mccarty is such an addition to this team. If mccarty never got the s*** beat out of him monday night I don't know what would have happened.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Z and D for the C

[CrossoverThrash 0]

How is he a weakling? Because he's old? So is Chelios.

I think Datsyuk is strong on his skates, but that doesn't necessarily translate to fight strong.

Roberts is old, but he's 6'2" and 215 lbs to Datsyuk's 5'11" 185 lbs. Roberts has been in a few fights each season since he entered the league, and Datsyuk has never been. I'm just saying with size mismatch and experience, if anyone's getting beatdown, it's not Roberts.

He was injured like the whole time he was with the pens, granted he broke his leg, but he obviously has weak bones, datsyuk could lift more i guarantee that, roberts is not muscleman chelios

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

If you'd chill out and quit judging this whole board based on one thread, you'd eventually find out you've got plenty of support on thinking Bettman is bad for this league and doesn't understand the game. And on the issue of.. dare I say it (because it's such a controversial word here)... "grit."

I'm not really into fighting for fighting's sake (like McCarty's fight the other night), but have said several times that this roster has lost a lot of it's size and toughness from the Cup years that's never been replaced. Unfortunately under the cap those guys are harder and harder to come by. guys who will hit and fight and can also play the game. And it's not a priority for Holland, which is frustrating. I wish they had kept Quincey and lost Lebda, even if Quincey was a bottom pairing guy. When Ericsson comes up, I like the idea of having some big kids in the lineup who will knock guys around and drop the gloves.

But that's a whole other conversation. This is just Dmac getting sent down for a couple games to bring Helm up.

EDITED for clarity, hopefully. I think fights belong in the game. But i prefer the ones that mean something versus guys just dropping them for no reason on a faceoff like the other night.

QFT

This isn't about liking Bettman or how the game has changed during his tenure, its about adapting to be the best team given the current rules. I hate a lot of the changes Bettman has instituted, but I understand what type of players are needed to be successful in *this* NHL.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Also, yes- I agree with the point Arctic about having a presence such as lucic or the "Canadian presence". Shanahan did his role perfectly... A shanahan -10 years type player would be ideal. I'm not so 'fight minded' that I don't realize that the Worrell type player days just don't last anymore. Boogaard can barely keep a roster spot and personally I think his NHL days are numbered, unfortunately.

Since I live in Minnesota I get to see Wild quite a bit. I would disagree about Boogaard. He has improved his skating ability and trying to become Holmstrom-like player for the Wild (he probably does not have the hands for tipping pucks but he can sure screen the goalie). He is also signed through the next season.

Boogaard has as many fighting majors as he has assists this year (2).

[ArcticWing 0]

Wow. I don't hate you and I'm sure you're a good person but this in my mind is probably the most dissapointing post I've read on these boards. The Wings wouldn't be were they are today if it weren't for the rivalry with Colorado, including their first Stanley Cup. The players themselves state the first brawl brought them together and helped solidify the cup run. I've just lost a little faith in humanity.

No need to loose faith in humanity, since I'm not a human , and I think I over did it again, went bait fishing with dynamite when mad.

Pheuw, new posts piling faster than one can read.

[j.hoop 64]

who knew this would cause such a stink?? didnt see that coming for sure !! anyways im glad helm is up, he must have earned a chance to play or i dont think he'd be up here. looking forward to watching him!

[hankzet40 233]

Giving away tickets over this? Really? I can't imagine how you'd find watching McCarty and his four or five mostly meaningless minutes more entertaining than watching a speedy youngster with a great forecheck. Mac has done well this year and I agree he plays an important role but anyone that says they go to games to watch the current day version of him and players of his ilk is crazy.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Kind of ironic because last year was a "cup year" and the only one that we lost was Dallas Drake.

This statement actually contradicts your entire argument.

Sorry, by cup years I mostly meant the ones in a row. 97 and 98.

You need to explain how that statement contradicts my entire argument.

I never said the Wings wouldn't win a cup with this roster. I said they haven't replaced a lot of the size and toughness from those years. I'm not wrong. Take a gander at the 97 and 98 lineup. Look at the height and weight of those players. The guys who could hit hard and drop the gloves when necessary. Now look at the current lineup.

We've got guys who are big and strong on the puck. It's not like I said they were powder puffs. But they still don't match those years. Or the current standard being set by Anaheim and San Jose, because players have gotten bigger in 10 years.

And I know it's blasphemy to say, but it's no coincidence that the season the Wings won the Cup they didn't have to go through San Jose or Anaheim. I'm not saying they couldn't have beaten those teams, but they may have won the battle but lost the war.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

No need to loose faith in humanity, since I'm not a human , and I think I over did it again, went bait fishing with dynamite when mad.

Pheuw, new posts piling faster than one can read.

No worries friend, happens to the best of us. Now next time I want a post that I whole heartedly agree with

Edited November 26, 2008 by ManLuv4Clears

[kook_10 1,705]

We've got guys who are big and strong on the puck. It's not like I said they were powder puffs. But they still don't match those years. Or the current standard being set by Anaheim and San Jose, because players have gotten bigger in 10 years.

Not to mince words, but I think the Wings as reigning champs set the standard. Without a doubt those teams espouse a different philosophy as far as size and toughness are concerned, but there are many ways to skin a cat.

[Slave 31]

as for people hitting datsyuk. I like to watch this:

[Nev 1,085]

Wow. I knew as soon as I saw this thread that it would degenerate into a "The wings don't fight and they suck and they are soft and they will never win in the playoffs with this team", but I didn't expect it to begin after 2 posts

This fighting thing is truly 2008-2009s Osgood vs Hasek.

Sucks for Mac, but Helm totally deserves his call-up, especially since he has what, 18 points in 16 games in GR? I never expected him to put up those kind of numbers based on what I saw of his offensive skills last season. That 3rd line could be fun to watch.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Watch datsyuk destroy malone

The "Awesome Hitter" Morrow misses too

Edited November 26, 2008 by CrossoverThrash

[Z and D for the C 712]

Watch datsyuk destroy malone

One of my favorite moments in the SCF

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Do people really think McCarty provided that much grit? He fought when there was no tension between squads and on a regular shift I can think of 5-6 guys who are playing a more punishing style on this team. Who cares.

The important thing is that Babcock is a ****** bag and Kopecky remains on the first line, which essentially means our top line is a two-man unit. I love that Kopecky warrants a top line spot regularly, but Hudler only gets top 6 time on the PP - which should be the case with Kopecky. He sucks at carrying the puck, sucks at passing, and cant stay on his skates for the life of him. His value is to park it in front of the net, and that is it.

Edited November 26, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[2probert4 8]

Kopecky would get claimed McCarty won't. Hence the reason why he was sent down.

thats because people forget mccarty has a 2 way deal; and that he was waived last week...helm doesn't hurt us at all, in fact he helps out defensively where we've been STINKING as a team...... its not redwings standards for team defense so far this season....

[steveyzerman 0]

I think I'm going to skip the December 30th game I was going to go to against Chicago... One of my friends is in store for free section 114 tickets.

I'm headed to GR! Downey and Mac? Heart, determination, and standing up for your teammates? Yes!

Poor Hossa, he must think it's a practical joke... he had the protection of Georges Laraque last year, now he's got the protection of... Lilja? LOL

I know. Hossa is soo small!

[Reds4Life 51]

Good! Now get rid of Kopecky and it will be great!

[Bliz 0]

I'm all for Helm being on the roster. He should've been in Detroit all along but having Downey and Mac in GR is cause for concern. It's risky with so many cheap shot artists around the league. Last season managment built the most complete team they've put together in years--Downey, Drake, and Mac (to a a lesser extent) played tough and kept the opposition accountable. The lesson seems to have been lost already, and now we're facing Boston, Anaheim, Calgary and Dallas in the next couple weeks and our most physical player may be Andreas Lilja.