Support Chris Osgood (and the Detroit Red Wings)

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Ozzie has been pretty bad this season, thus people have a right to criticize him all they want. Let's not forget that everyone on this roster won the Cup last year, just like he did. Does that mean that all these players should be immune from criticism? I don't think so. If this goaltending keeps up, this team will never be able to repeat as champs. Either he's got to improve now and fast, or something else has to be done, and many here happen to realize that.

For the life of me, I can't understand threads like these, which seem to go against the whole purpose of having an internet discussion thread.

[mackel 764]

These topics really get me going, and until now I've been fighting the urge to reply but I just can't bit my tongue anymore.

First off let me say I've been a wings fan since 1990 ( I was 10 years old at that time), through the good times and the bad... I am as much a fan as anyone on this board... BUT this notion that not liking a player on your team makes you less of a fan is really getting under my skin.

I'm not, nor have I ever been a "fan" of Chris Osgood, he is an interchangeable part of this team. We've never won a cup because of Osgood, but there is a good case to be made that we've won a few in spite of him. Osgood played well last year not great, not awesome, but ok, good enough as usual.

Osgood is playing terribly this season, his record this season just proves the point of those reasonable, objective fans, who, for years have said his numbers are propped up by the team surrounding him. "His win" last night was a farce, he needed (and almost wasted) a 6 goal performance by his team. He looked like a fish out of water yet his record on the season improved with another tick in the win column.

But all of this talk is irrelevant... We have no cap room to get a better goalie and we know that Osgood will start in the playoffs because of our two goalies he has experience in the playoffs. We just have to hope that our team can compensate for this obvious weak point as it has in the past.

[Doc Holiday 0]

These topics really get me going, and until now I've been fighting the urge to reply but I just can't bit my tongue anymore.

First off let me say I've been a wings fan since 1990 ( I was 10 years old at that time), through the good times and the bad... I am as much a fan as anyone on this board... BUT this notion that not liking a player on your team makes you less of a fan is really getting under my skin.

I'm not, nor have I ever been a "fan" of Chris Osgood, he is an interchangeable part of this team. We've never won a cup because of Osgood, but there is a good case to be made that we've won a few in spite of him. Osgood played well last year not great, not awesome, but ok, good enough as usual.

Osgood is playing terribly this season, his record this season just proves the point of those reasonable, objective fans, who, for years have said his numbers are propped up by the team surrounding him. "His win" last night was a farce, he needed (and almost wasted) a 6 goal performance by his team. He looked like a fish out of water yet his record on the season improved with another tick in the win column.

But all of this talk is irrelevant... We have no cap room to get a better goalie and we know that Osgood will start in the playoffs because of our two goalies he has experience in the playoffs. We just have to hope that our team can compensate for this obvious weak point as it has in the past.

Not to be the devils advocate but St Louis and New York anyone? Propped up stats there?

[The Secret 304]

"Isles' Osgood Missing Lots of Pucks and Starts

By DAVE CALDWELL

Islanders are staggering, and Chris Osgood cannot regain his spot as the team's top goaltender.

November 7, 2002"

"A Fast Start by the Flyers, an Early Night for Osgood

By DAVE CALDWELL

Chris Osgood gave up two goals on the first two shots he saw, then gave up goals on three straight shots before he left the game after the first period.

October 27, 2002"

"Islanders' Strong Offense Provides Lift for Osgood

By CHARLIE NOBLES

After a slow start this season, Chris Osgood might have needed a good game to maintain his status as the Islanders' top goalie. If so, he played just well enough.

October 20, 2002"

"Osgood and Islanders Fans Are Scratching Heads After Loss

By DAVE CALDWELL

Chris Osgood allowed two goals less than two minutes apart in the third period, and the Blackhawks extended their unbeaten streak over the Islanders to 10 games.

December 11, 2002 "

Just a quick google search and I found these results. They sound awfully familiar don't they.

Edited December 5, 2008 by The Secret

[b.shanafan14 733]

Sometimes I wonder if we are all watching the same game.

First, in the salary cap era Osgood fulfills on very important function, he is a high value low $$ player. If I remember right he's 1.4 a year that's Draper/Lilja type money. In a league where Jeff Finger get 3, Mark Bell get 2 to sit in the AHL and Gerber is getting 3.7, Osgood is a steal. He's not Luongo but where would the Wings be in terms of the rest of the roster if he was.

Second, stop looking at the number of shots and actually look at what type of shots they are. 40 shots from the blue line with no traffic is a lot different than 6 shots from 10 feet out. The Red Wings historically have given up a relatively low number of shots per game but due to their style of play a decent number of them are very high percentage scoring chances. Mistakes by skaters are far more often masked than those of equal magnitude by goalies, lets say Lebda forces one up the middle for an easy turnover but said skater whiffs on the shot or misses the net. No one remembers that like when a goalie lets a soft one in.

Lastly, all players are going to go through rough patches. Sometimes its not even directly related to your play, rather the puck just isn't bouncing your way. The difference between the greats and the ECHL players are how they respond to this adversity, Osgood has proven over the last 14 seasons that he can get the job done and done well.

Have a little more faith in a guy who has provided so much for this team, it's not like there loosing these games right now. If he continues to be shaky and they start loosing games then maybe its time for a reassessment but that simply isn't the case right now.

Win.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

"Isles' Osgood Missing Lots of Pucks and Starts

By DAVE CALDWELL

Islanders are staggering, and Chris Osgood cannot regain his spot as the team's top goaltender.

November 7, 2002"

"A Fast Start by the Flyers, an Early Night for Osgood

By DAVE CALDWELL

Chris Osgood gave up two goals on the first two shots he saw, then gave up goals on three straight shots before he left the game after the first period.

October 27, 2002"

"Islanders' Strong Offense Provides Lift for Osgood

By CHARLIE NOBLES

After a slow start this season, Chris Osgood might have needed a good game to maintain his status as the Islanders' top goalie. If so, he played just well enough.

October 20, 2002"

"Islanders' Strong Offense Provides Lift for Osgood

By CHARLIE NOBLES

After a slow start this season, Chris Osgood might have needed a good game to maintain his status as the Islanders' top goalie. If so, he played just well enough.

October 20, 2002"

Just a quick google search and I found these results. They sound awfully familiar don't they.

Look, I think Osgood has definitely been struggling. Three of those goals last night were bad ones.

but how are these 6 year old headlines relevant? They were still out there last season when Babcock decided to play Ozzy in the playoffs. I guess because of these articles he should've stuck with Dom?

I don't care if Ozzy was the greatest goalie in the league or the worst in the world in '02. What matters is how he's playing now. And he needs to get it together.

[b.shanafan14 733]

"Isles' Osgood Missing Lots of Pucks and Starts

By DAVE CALDWELL

Islanders are staggering, and Chris Osgood cannot regain his spot as the team's top goaltender.

November 7, 2002"

"A Fast Start by the Flyers, an Early Night for Osgood

By DAVE CALDWELL

Chris Osgood gave up two goals on the first two shots he saw, then gave up goals on three straight shots before he left the game after the first period.

October 27, 2002"

"Islanders' Strong Offense Provides Lift for Osgood

By CHARLIE NOBLES

After a slow start this season, Chris Osgood might have needed a good game to maintain his status as the Islanders' top goalie. If so, he played just well enough.

October 20, 2002"

"Islanders' Strong Offense Provides Lift for Osgood

By CHARLIE NOBLES

After a slow start this season, Chris Osgood might have needed a good game to maintain his status as the Islanders' top goalie. If so, he played just well enough.

October 20, 2002"

Just a quick google search and I found these results. They sound awfully familiar don't they.

It does sound familiar, sounds like a small sample of bad games that EVERY goaltender in the history of goals and tending them as had. Now search Roy and pick out the bad ones, and when he wasn't playing for a cellar dweller like the Isles. I bet Roy was terrible too, what about the blow out he allowed against the Wings in 2002. I remember some pretty bad headlines about that game.

Point is, don't take a small sample of bad games especially from 6 years ago as proof a player who just won the Stanley Cup with a 1.55 GAA and .930 SV% last spring is washed up.

Edited December 5, 2008 by b.shanafan14

[mackel 764]

It does sound familiar, sounds like a small sample of bad games that EVERY goaltender in the history of goals and tending them as had. Now search Roy and pick out the bad ones, and when he wasn't playing for a cellar dweller like the Isles. I bet Roy was terrible too, what about the blow out he allowed against the Wings in 2002. I remember some pretty bad headlines about that game.

Thats like comparing a Warship (Roy) to a Row-Boat (Osgood).

[Doc Holiday 0]

"Isles' Osgood Missing Lots of Pucks and Starts

By DAVE CALDWELL

Islanders are staggering, and Chris Osgood cannot regain his spot as the team's top goaltender.

November 7, 2002"

"A Fast Start by the Flyers, an Early Night for Osgood

By DAVE CALDWELL

Chris Osgood gave up two goals on the first two shots he saw, then gave up goals on three straight shots before he left the game after the first period.

October 27, 2002"

"Islanders' Strong Offense Provides Lift for Osgood

By CHARLIE NOBLES

After a slow start this season, Chris Osgood might have needed a good game to maintain his status as the Islanders' top goalie. If so, he played just well enough.

October 20, 2002"

"Osgood and Islanders Fans Are Scratching Heads After Loss

By DAVE CALDWELL

Chris Osgood allowed two goals less than two minutes apart in the third period, and the Blackhawks extended their unbeaten streak over the Islanders to 10 games.

December 11, 2002 "

Just a quick google search and I found these results. They sound awfully familiar don't they.

Yes a couple of headlines definitely trump his statistics.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Thats like comparing a Warship (Roy) to a Row-Boat (Osgood).

Yup. They'll both get you to the Cup, it's just that one has oversized equipment and costs millions of dollars more.

[The Secret 304]

Yes a couple of headlines definitely trump his statistics.

I just found it interesting the the first few headlines I did find we about letting in the first shot, losing the number one spot, inconsistent play.

[The Mule 0]

We all love Ozzie, but his play has not been up to par this season. Yes, our defense has been downright awful the majority of the time, but sometimes Chris needs to stand on his head and bail us out, and that has rarely happened, if at all.

It's already been said in this thread, but I support taking steps to spark his play, fire him up, and force him to play better. We all know Ozzie can stop shots with the best of him when he's on his game, so why not try to force that out of them? He's been lacking consistency, which is something a contending franchise needs from their goaltender.

[The Secret 304]

We all love Ozzie, but his play has not been up to par this season. Yes, our defense has been downright awful the majority of the time, but sometimes Chris needs to stand on his head and bail us out, and that has rarely happened, if at all.

It's already been said in this thread, but I support taking steps to spark his play, fire him up, and force him to play better. We all know Ozzie can stop shots with the best of him when he's on his game, so why not try to force that out of them? He's been lacking consistency, which is something a contending franchise needs from their goaltender.

Be careful mule... thats not what his stats say!

[mackel 764]

Yup. They'll both get you to the Cup, it's just that one has oversized equipment and costs millions of dollars more.

Yes and one Roy can do it with a team that doesn't compare to an All-Star team, while Osgood needs lock-down defence and a lethal offence. Good comparison you may want to try again, and next time try sticking to reality.

[cboth686 0]

Osgood's play has been horrid. He was solid enough between the pipes behind this red Juggernaut in last years playoffs, if he can't do the job presently, he doesn't have my confidence, or the teams simple as that...and that's all that matters...Nobody can defend his poor save %, or GAA, when Conks are great.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'm not, nor have I ever been a "fan" of Chris Osgood, he is an interchangeable part of this team. We've never won a cup because of Osgood, but there is a good case to be made that we've won a few in spite of him. Osgood played well last year not great, not awesome, but ok, good enough as usual.

How was Ozzie just "good enough" last year? He was sensational during the regular season and even better in the playoffs. The defense was the same for Ozzie as it was for the other goalie that lasted four games in the playoffs. Which one is it: the defense makes Ozzie when his numbers are good, but Ozzie is to blame when the defense is awful too? It can't be both, which seems to be the basis of your argument.

Edited December 5, 2008 by GoWings1905

[Frozen-Man 144]

Yes and one Roy can do it with a team that doesn't compare to an All-Star team, while Osgood needs lock-down defence and a lethal offence. Good comparison you may want to try again, and next time try sticking to reality.

If you look Mike Vernon's stats weren't that great with the Wings - I guess he sucked too.

1994-95 GAA 2.52 S% 89.3

1995-96 GAA 2.26 S% 90.3

1996-97 GAA 2.43 S% 89.9

[mackel 764]

If you look Mike Vernon's stats weren't that great with the Wings - I guess he sucked too.

1994-95 GAA 2.52 S% 89.3

1995-96 GAA 2.26 S% 90.3

1996-97 GAA 2.43 S% 89.9

I don't remember mentioning Mike Vernon.... I thought we were talking about Chris OsBad

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

finally a post that isn't hating on the wings and their 17-4-4 record. go ozzie, go wings. and goddamn huds is tearing s*** up this year.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I don't remember mentioning Mike Vernon.... I thought we were talking about Chris OsBad

Were you calling Ozzie that when he was a pivotal piece of the Red Wings winning a championship in June?

[b.shanafan14 733]

Thats like comparing a Warship (Roy) to a Row-Boat (Osgood).

My point was never to compare Osgood to Roy, my point was to point out the reliability of basing a players careers off of 4 headlines during a low point 6 years ago while ignoring the majority, which is consistent play, not the least of which won this very team the Stanley Cup not 6 months ago.

For some on this board, "what have you done for me lately" has become a blanket statement for their careers, Ozzy especially. High points, there can be no greater, low points, there can be no worse. The team as a whole is in a funk defensively, and the quantity of shots against isn't conveying the actual quality of those chances. You'll be hard pressed to find a goaltender just as cheap as Ozzy, who is just as good on the ice, and in the locker room, and even if you found him, his first 6-5 victory will pop up 3 threads vilifying him for such a horrendous game/career.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yes and one Roy can do it with a team that doesn't compare to an All-Star team, while Osgood needs lock-down defence and a lethal offence. Good comparison you may want to try again, and next time try sticking to reality.

I was making a joke, not comparing Osgood to Roy. Jeez.

Here's some reality Mr. Crabbypants. Osgood is not elite. Roy was. But Osgood is a great value goaltender.

Having an elite goaltender would probably cost this team at least $5 million more than they're spending on Ozzy. He's good for the money. They won the Cup last year with him between the pipes. It's clearly a strategy right now with Holland. Unless a franchise guy becomes available, they've got a goalie who's good enough to do the job at a very low price. That allows him to spend a whole lot of money on that lock down defense and lethal offense.

Would you rather have Luongo between the pipes and watch a Wings team without Hossa, and probably with out either Z or Mule and maybe more?

Because with an elite goalie, they'd have 13.5 million tied up in their first defensive pairing, $7 million in net, and $6.7 for Datsyuk alone. That's over $27 million in 4 players, while still needing to sign Franzen and Mule under a projected cap of $55 mill.

Osgood is certainly not playing at the level he was last season. There's plenty of time for that to change. Hopefully it will.

[Pucks 66]

QUOTE (mackel @ December 5, 2008 - 10:03AM) *

Thats like comparing a Warship (Roy) to a Row-Boat (Osgood).

Yup. They'll both get you to the Cup, it's just that one has oversized equipment and costs millions of dollars more.

Correction. One will win you a cup, the other will be given the cup!

Edited December 5, 2008 by Pucks

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I don't remember mentioning Mike Vernon.... I thought we were talking about Chris OsBad

ahh clever. I see what you did. you took his name osGOOD and changed it to bad. Just like people have been doing for over a decade now.

Way to make a cogent point in the thread.

[The Secret 304]

My point was never to compare Osgood to Roy, my point was to point out the reliability of basing a players careers off of 4 headlines during a low point 6 years ago while ignoring the majority, which is consistent play, not the least of which won this very team the Stanley Cup not 6 months ago.

For some on this board, "what have you done for me lately" has become a blanket statement for their careers, Ozzy especially. High points, there can be no greater, low points, there can be no worse. The team as a whole is in a funk defensively, and the quantity of shots against isn't conveying the actual quality of those chances. You'll be hard pressed to find a goaltender just as cheap as Ozzy, who is just as good on the ice, and in the locker room, and even if you found him, his first 6-5 victory will pop up 3 threads vilifying him for such a horrendous game/career.

It was a quick google search that produced the results showing that Osgood had the same inconsistencies in 2002 that he is having right now is all. If the past is so irrelevant then then so in mentioning his play in last years play offs. And apparently the "what have you done for me lately" theory is also applying to the coaching staff and every other objective fan that doesn't wear rose coloured glasses. If his game has been so good and consistent throughout his career then why would he seek a goalie coach to help him re-structure his game despite all his great achievements? Did he think it would look good on his resume?