Team toughness

[DRWExaminer 0]

In last night's game against Calgary, Todd Bertuzzi and Andre Roy made a point of throwing their weight around, as well as Phaneuf to a lesser extent.

Normally it doesn't get under my skin because they save that stuff for other big body tough guys, but it concerned me when Zetterberg was getting punched in the head repeatedly after a whistle. Lilja made efforts to step in as the tough guy, but I don't think he gives other teams any reason for concern.

Obviously if McCarty or Downey were in the lineup they would have been targeted for this stuff, but I wonder if they are enough to deter or give other teams pause for thought before they take shots at the top players.

Do you think the Wings need to find a tougher guy than McCarty or Downey to handle the policeman role, and if so who do you suggest?

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Wings won didnt they? Nuff said

[DyingAlive 27]

Did we have a tough guy last year? Other than Downie and DMac who were almost didn't play at all in the playoffs, we were fine.

[esteef 2,679]

Here we go! :battle:

[lets go pavel 2]

In last night's game against Calgary, Todd Bertuzzi and Andre Roy made a point of throwing their weight around, as well as Phaneuf to a lesser extent.

Normally it doesn't get under my skin because they save that stuff for other big body tough guys, but it concerned me when Zetterberg was getting punched in the head repeatedly after a whistle. Lilja made efforts to step in as the tough guy, but I don't think he gives other teams any reason for concern.

Obviously if McCarty or Downey were in the lineup they would have been targeted for this stuff, but I wonder if they are enough to deter or give other teams pause for thought before they take shots at the top players.

Do you think the Wings need to find a tougher guy than McCarty or Downey to handle the policeman role, and if so who do you suggest?

The things they were doing last night - shoving after the whistle, etc. - were either meant to intimidate or to raise the level of physicality to the game as a whole. I think it's safe to say we weren't intimidated. I think it's also safe to say that we are comfortable with physical play ... we actually outhit them 23-21. I didn't once think to myself during the game that we needed someone tougher on the ice to stand up for our guys, so based on last night, no. That's not to say that there aren't games where I'd like to see Downey or Mac on the ice, but last night I didn't feel that way.

As for who else, I think Mac do Downey do just fine when they get the chance ...

[mjlegend 155]

If you have a good power play, 1970s-style physical intimidation just doesn't work. I'd rather see Bertuzzi and Roy take two minutes for being punchy jackasses and put the Wings on the power play than waste ice-time on someone who can't skate with this team.

You still win if you score more goals than the other team, right?

[mjlegend 155]

Here we go! :battle:

Eight pages is my prediction.

[Yzermania 156]

13 is our "thug" haha

I love how he seems to get tougher every game.

People don't realize the other teams look tough because of our talent. They get frustrated as our offense swarms around their net and after the whistle they throw a few "punches" Big deal, hank got a couple shoves to the head, if you've ever played hockey you'd know that s*** happenes every game and it causes not the least amount of pain. If anything, it is just them taking a chance of getting a penalty. Why do we need a goon? It's not often we are in the situation where we need to be throwing punches and if we REALLY need to, Lils can step up and get the job done somewhat well. If you want a rough and tough team, go watch the ducks or something, it's not Detroit's style.

[j.hoop 64]

get a player more focused on physical game? maybe. a thug? hell no, one of the reasons i love this team is because thugs dont play here. holland will have none of that. that said, if they did pick up a player more focused on physicality, where would he fit in? the checking line? the fourth line? whose place would he take? you have to ask yourself these questions before considering making a move.

one of my ideas is that the players could take a lesson from datsyuk and use the body more. he is so effective because he is smart, he knows when to hit and when not to. he has a great vision for reading the play, and most often disrupts a good chance by the other team. his hit on versteeg may have saved the game, we dont know for sure. imagine if versteeg got a pass off to someone and they scored. datsyuk effectively eliminated the play. time for datsyuk clinic 2.0

[12Newf 0]

Eight pages is my prediction.

haha i predict 15.

[j.hoop 64]

If you have a good power play, 1970s-style physical intimidation just doesn't work. I'd rather see Bertuzzi and Roy take two minutes for being punchy jackasses and put the Wings on the power play than waste ice-time on someone who can't skate with this team.

You still win if you score more goals than the other team, right?

exactly

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

In last night's game against Calgary, Todd Bertuzzi and Andre Roy made a point of throwing their weight around, as well as Phaneuf to a lesser extent.

Normally it doesn't get under my skin because they save that stuff for other big body tough guys, but it concerned me when Zetterberg was getting punched in the head repeatedly after a whistle. Lilja made efforts to step in as the tough guy, but I don't think he gives other teams any reason for concern.

Obviously if McCarty or Downey were in the lineup they would have been targeted for this stuff, but I wonder if they are enough to deter or give other teams pause for thought before they take shots at the top players.

Do you think the Wings need to find a tougher guy than McCarty or Downey to handle the policeman role, and if so who do you suggest?

The only problem I had last night was with the referees and only on 1 play. How on Earth did Andre Roy not get at least a roughing penalty for punching at Z like 4 times when Z barely grazed their goalie? Seriously, what is Andre Roy trying to prove there going after Z? Z's not a dirty player at all.

And I have no problem with Andre Roy, he's doing his job and he's doing it with a clear conscious as he knows we had nobody in the lineup that would do anything about it.

IMO, Mac should've played or somebody when you have a team as physical and big as Calgary with guys like Roy, Regehr, Phaneuf, Iggy, Prust, etc.... At least somebody could've said something to Roy like "WTF!" Why you goin' after Z like that?

My beef isn't that we don't have a roster chalk full of fighters. Its that the refs allow an enforcer to take pot shots at a star player who doesn't fight simply for grazing their goalie. Roy did his job. The referees did not.

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

I think the Wings are tough enough. They have players that drop the gloves if push comes to shove and they have players who hit extremely well. The only way I want an enforcer in the line-up is if they can skate/pass well (not Downey or McCarty). Just my opinion though

Edited December 11, 2008 by Wings_Rule_1010

[frederick9125 0]

Datsyuk has had some very nice hits in the last couple games. i was at the game sat and last night, only thing i see that we need is our D to show up every night

[uk_redwing 495]

Did we have a tough guy last year? Other than Downie and DMac who were almost didn't play at all in the playoffs, we were fine.

Downie? who were almost?

[scotzman 29]

If you have a good power play, 1970s-style physical intimidation just doesn't work. I'd rather see Bertuzzi and Roy take two minutes for being punchy jackasses and put the Wings on the power play than waste ice-time on someone who can't skate with this team.

You still win if you score more goals than the other team, right?

Just a quick note... neither one of the guys got a 2 minute penalty for roughing. I don't think we need a thug/enforcer/tough guy either, but the league needs to call this sh!t after whistles.

When that dude was punching Z in the face numerous times after the whistle, someone needed to pound his ass. Z ain't gonna' do it, so who? Lils sort of made a move like he was gonna' help, but let's be honest that is not gonna' do it.

Calgary is classic with this approach against us... they are goons.

All that said, we still were victorious because even when we don't play up to our potential we are far superior to Calgary and most of the league... poor Iginla, he should hold out and come play for us when Hossa leaves.

[WingMachine91 0]

sounds like the answer to everyones prayers is mr. sean avery. a goon player who is not a liability(unless you count penalties) and can actually play. just kidding

but seriously, if avery just shut up and played the game, he would be a pretty good asset for any team. a fighter/agitator who actually has skills to score. sounds like a young mac

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Yes we do.

Preferably someone who scores minimal points, can't skate very well, turns the puck over at times, but loves to fight and is a complete "THUG" as you so eloquently put it.

On a serious note, I didn't like seeing that French ****** Andre Roy throwing jabs at the back of Zetterberg's head, and no I don't give a rat's ass that it may or may not have given us a PP. Downey would have challenged Roy after that incident.

BTW, anyone who makes that "PP is an enforcer" argument should be disqualified from participating in this thread. It's a pathetic thing to say and I don't know how anyone can bring themselves to post it.

[Dominator2005 558]

Team toughness, Do we need to have a thug in the lineup?

My answer is NO

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Team toughness, Do we need to have a thug in the lineup?

My answer is NO

My answer is a resounding, YES.

There's a place for thugs everywhere in the world. I say scratch Kopecky and dress a thug in his place. We won't lose anything, but will instead gain the pleasure of seeing an Andre Roy get beat down for going after one of our skilled players.

[Dominator2005 558]

My answer is a resounding, YES.

There's a place for thugs everywhere in the world. I say scratch Kopecky and dress a thug in his place. We won't lose anything, but will instead gain the pleasure of seeing an Andre Roy get beat down for going after one of our skilled players.

sarcasm

[jvxp 0]

In last night's game against Calgary, Todd Bertuzzi and Andre Roy made a point of throwing their weight around, as well as Phaneuf to a lesser extent.

Normally it doesn't get under my skin because they save that stuff for other big body tough guys, but it concerned me when Zetterberg was getting punched in the head repeatedly after a whistle. Lilja made efforts to step in as the tough guy, but I don't think he gives other teams any reason for concern.

Obviously if McCarty or Downey were in the lineup they would have been targeted for this stuff, but I wonder if they are enough to deter or give other teams pause for thought before they take shots at the top players.

Do you think the Wings need to find a tougher guy than McCarty or Downey to handle the policeman role, and if so who do you suggest?

The punches to the head of Zetterberg pissed me off. In the past I would say I want Mac but he is past his prime. I would love to have Downey up, he is better at this point. I think the Wings need Downey. Downey would be my choice hands down.

[Guest Shoreline]

The punches to the head of Zetterberg pissed me off. In the past I would say I want Mac but he is past his prime. I would love to have Downey up, he is better at this point. I think the Wings need Downey. Downey would be my choice hands down.

You know what a lot of people overlooked? Every single time Conklin got showered from a Calgary player coming in and leaning into the ice, what happened? Just put their arm between the Flame player and Conk. This happened at least half a dozen times, that being a very conservative estimation. What happens if the Wings did the same to Calgary? Hell, they didn't even need to and Flame players were pushing and shoving their guys around. These are messages that need to be sent, and the attitude that needs to fuel guys from falling asleep from a pure skill game. People evidently forget what happens to a battered, entirely-skill Wings team in the playoffs that can't answer for a team that plays very highly on the physical side. As mentioned in the GDT thread, hopefully Anaheim, Calgary, and Edmonton ring a bell.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Shoreline

[jvxp 0]

Did we have a tough guy last year? Other than Downie and DMac who were almost didn't play at all in the playoffs, we were fine.

I agree, playoffs are a different animal but the regular season is different. Players will take cheap shot in the regular season because there is not as much at stake. So, for the regular season we need someone other then Mac that can throw down and win and Downey proved last year that he can do the job. I would send Mac down and bring Downey up.

[Guest Shoreline]

I agree, playoffs are a different animal but the regular season is different. Players will take cheap shot in the regular season because there is not as much at stake. So, for the regular season we need someone other then Mac that can throw down and win and Downey proved last year that he can do the job. I would send Mac down and bring Downey up.

Exactly. Given the difficulty of repeating, the very short summer the Wings had after a grueling postseason, it's dumb to let teams beat you up and tire yourself out for the playoffs. The Wings we would end up seeing are the ones during that tenuous road trip, and the same Wings that choked in the playoffs several times to teams more physical than they. The skill thing can pass against bonehead teams like Nashville, but when an extremely physical team also is good at putting the puck in the net, you talk about teams that have eliminated the Wings in recent years.