Penguins sign Jordan Staal, 4 Years $16 Million

[12Newf 0]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=262415&amp...s=topStory_main

[RWK23 0]

Isn't this what Filppula got? That looks like a real solid deal for the Pens.

[Opie 308]

Flip went for 14mil 5 years

2.0

2.5

3.5

3.5

3.5

Edit for comparison last season's stats

Flip

Regular season

GP78 g19 a17 pt36 +16

PostSeason

gp22 g5 a6 pts11 +7

Staal

Regular Season

gp82 g12 a16 pts28 -5

Post Season

gp20 g6 a1 pts7 -4

This year

Flip 39 5 11 16 4

Staal 41 11 10 21 -5

The cap is projected to go down next year and he is making 2mil more than Flip over the term of the deal.

Not saying it is a bad deal but more than flip doesn't seem right, I also don't know what he adds to the locker room presence so that could make up for a lot if he is a future 'A'.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Opie

[Red Crazy 201]

I think it is a good deal for the Pens. I wonder only about what this will do to an already tight cap?

[Opie 308]

Another thought,

The Pens (much like most Eastern teams) are lacking on the back end, have they pulled a TB lightning?

Load up on the front end and then have to win with 6 goals everynight?

Crosby, Malkin, Fluery, Staal, Whitney, Orpiks are all signed and they have a lot of FA's coming up. But the 6 guys I listed are tied up for a lot of money.

Horrible, horrible tangent:

Anybody else think Malkin's contract should be voided, he has 4 years at 9 mil and then 3 at 2.85, I though that was too steep of a drop off? Didn't a couple of players already have contracts negated by the league for that?

[Chunkylover 26]

I think it is a good deal for the Pens. I wonder only about what this will do to an already tight cap?

And what kind of precedent it will set around the league. Don't let Franzen see this....

Edit: or Hudler.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Chunkylover

[Swede40 0]

I think Hudler will be gone regardless.

[JayUp88 1]

Not bad for them, I am always liked the Staal Family

[Datsyerberger 279]

I like Jordan Staal, but considering he's pretty much a comparable player to Flip in terms of defensive and offensive skill, that's an overpayment. More than I think he's worth, though I hope he develops into a player worthy of that contract (while Flip develops equally, thus meaning another Red Wings player at a great contract )

[swiss_fan 3]

me think: OVERPAYMENT

if the case of filpulla can be discussed as many here have done, to pay 4 milions now for Staal is in my opinion way too high. Next FA period will be definitively interesting cuz most of the teams will face salary cap problems. And if some big FA will may be receive the big bucks i have no doubts that some of them will be highly disappointed. Something really interesting would be to list all the team who ll face cap's problem and who s not.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

I agree with Swiss Fan: Overpayment!!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Its not that bad of a deal, considering hes only 20 years old. Flip has 4 years on him, and wasn't even NHL quality at that age. Neither Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Hudler. That being said, I don't think hes as great of a player as hes made out to be. At best I see him as the next Chris Drury.

There has also been a lot of talk surrounding Jordan Staal being traded by the Pens. They're deep at center, as we all know, and could use some high-end defensive help or help at the wing. I wouldn't rule out the signing of this contract as a way to increase Staal's value. For a team that has the cap space, 4M isn't that daunting to spend on a young, fairly complete player like Staal. I could easily see this as the prelude to an off-season trade, given that the reluctance for teams surrounding a trade for Jordan Staal likely would've been his RFA status.

[Booster313 138]

The bar has been set...Zetterbergs contract should be right around the same!

[egroen 384]

Another thought,

The Pens (much like most Eastern teams) are lacking on the back end, have they pulled a TB lightning?

Load up on the front end and then have to win with 6 goals everynight?

Crosby, Malkin, Fluery, Staal, Whitney, Orpiks are all signed and they have a lot of FA's coming up. But the 6 guys I listed are tied up for a lot of money.

Horrible, horrible tangent:

Anybody else think Malkin's contract should be voided, he has 4 years at 9 mil and then 3 at 2.85, I though that was too steep of a drop off? Didn't a couple of players already have contracts negated by the league for that?

Are you looking at nhlnumbers.com ? I think they have it wrong. He is getting $43.5m over 5 years -- they have those three extra years tacked on over at nhlnumbers as a "bonus", which I think factors in to his current entry level contract, not his extension.

[Opie 308]

Are you looking at nhlnumbers.com ? I think they have it wrong. He is getting $43.5m over 5 years -- they have those three extra years tacked on over at nhlnumbers as a "bonus", which I think factors in to his current entry level contract, not his extension.

That must be the case, I use NHLNumbers due to ease, but that must be right, it blew my mind that he could do that when the Isles or Sabres (I think) had a player this off season that had to restructure the deal.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Its not that bad of a deal, considering hes only 20 years old. Flip has 4 years on him, and wasn't even NHL quality at that age. Neither Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Hudler. That being said, I don't think hes as great of a player as hes made out to be. At best I see him as the next Chris Drury.

But does earlier development also equal greater maximum potential? While it's quite obvious some great players are great very early (Recent example: Crosby), other players take a much longer time to reach an impressive peak (Recent example: Franzen). While I think it's safe to say the greatest players are often quality early on, I think people on the Internets in general think that potential and development age are mutually inclusive. Why does Staal automatically become a more gifted player than Flip because of his age? Is it possible they're similar players potential-wise with a different development curve? Given my observation of these two players, I say yes.

Sorry for the slight tangent, that just happens to be a trend I often see that tends to bug me. Perhaps it's worthy of it's own thread.

Back on topic:

Currently an overpayment with the potential to develop either into a great deal and/or great trade potential, or an absolute let-down.

[egroen 384]

That must be the case, I use NHLNumbers due to ease, but that must be right, it blew my mind that he could do that when the Isles or Sabres (I think) had a player this off season that had to restructure the deal.

I usually use that site as well, but they often have errors. There is one that is more accurate, but less easy to navigate -- but I can not think of it offhand right now.

If Malkin's salary was structured like that, it would be illegal.

[Doggy 130]

I usually use that site as well, but they often have errors. There is one that is more accurate, but less easy to navigate -- but I can not think of it offhand right now.

If Malkin's salary was structured like that, it would be illegal.

You're probably thinkin of nhlscap.com.

There's nothing innaccurate about the way they have Malkin's salary at nhlnumbers you guys are just misreading it. Those 2.85 years say 06/07 bonus, etc above them. If you want to see his full contract just click the little arrows and it expands. $9m for 4 years and $7.5m for the fifth.

Back on-topic: I'm pretty biased because I like Jordan Staal. I was a massive Guy Carbonneau fan and I think Staal could become a similar player to Guy. If that's the case I think $4m per is well worth it.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Doggy

[Doggy 130]

Another thought,

The Pens (much like most Eastern teams) are lacking on the back end, have they pulled a TB lightning?

Load up on the front end and then have to win with 6 goals everynight?

Crosby, Malkin, Fluery, Staal, Whitney, Orpiks are all signed and they have a lot of FA's coming up. But the 6 guys I listed are tied up for a lot of money.

How can a D core of Whitney, Orpik and Gonchar be compared to Tampa's? They are worlds apart.

[South Dakota wings fan 7]

I think it is a good deal for the Pens. I wonder only about what this will do to an already tight cap?

I wonder what this does for the market for Franzen and/or Hudler? Don't forget that J.P. Dumont also got a 4x4 deal from Trashville last year. I bring that up only because Staal is a center, and Dumont is a winger...and Mule is both.

[GROwl 5]

For that price, I hope he can fight better than his brother Marc!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

But does earlier development also equal greater maximum potential? While it's quite obvious some great players are great very early (Recent example: Crosby), other players take a much longer time to reach an impressive peak (Recent example: Franzen). While I think it's safe to say the greatest players are often quality early on, I think people on the Internets in general think that potential and development age are mutually inclusive. Why does Staal automatically become a more gifted player than Flip because of his age? Is it possible they're similar players potential-wise with a different development curve? Given my observation of these two players, I say yes.

Sorry for the slight tangent, that just happens to be a trend I often see that tends to bug me. Perhaps it's worthy of it's own thread.

Back on topic:

Currently an overpayment with the potential to develop either into a great deal and/or great trade potential, or an absolute let-down.

To start with, players that make a substantial shift from 4th liners to 2nd liners at the age of 28 and essentially overnight are very rare. At the moment, I can't think of a more drastic transformation than Johan Franzen's, barring freak/fluke seasons where a player performs at a much higher level than they ever had, but were not able to sustain it (i.e. Drapers 24 goal year).

Secondly, you're missing a key point in the development debate, and thats whether or not a player CAN perform adequately in the NHL at a young age, and whether or not they DO perform adequately at the NHL level. Therefore, this isn't the a ***-for-tat debate comparing potential to potential. We aren't measuring the immeasurables with Jordan Staal. We have the data from which to draw our conclusions. And those conclusions point to Staal being a capable 20+ goal scorer who is currently on pace for his 2nd year of 40+ points. At the age of 20. Judging from the scores of young talent around the league - not just the random fluke example - those players who exhibit adequate talent at the age of 18-20 often continue to build on that talent more often than not (barring injury). Obviously, theres always the chance that Staal could turn into a bust and be way overpaid, but its a calculated risk that is more heavily supported by precedents than it is weakened.

And finally, to get at the core of what youre asking, is there really a difference between the potential of a 20 year old versus the potential of a 24 year old? And to that I definitely give a resounding yes.

While the question of whether or not Jordan Staal is to be overpaid is going to linger, the question of WHY he is going to be deemd over or underpaid has everything to do with offensive statistics in his case, which is a favorable circumstance. He has already exhibited strong defense, grit, and a great work ethic as well as the ability to perform well in high-pressure circumstances. He is a very dynamic player, and those kinds of players typically get paid more on average across the NHL, offensive statistics aside. Should Jordan Staal reach the 55+ point plateau, by nature of the type of player he is, there are a number of GMs in this league who would welcome his 4M salary with open arms.

Edited January 8, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[Wings_Rule_1010 4]

For that price, I hope he can fight better than his brother Marc!

What? You didn't enjoy that bongo beatdown he experienced?

[ComradeWasabi 109]

What? You didn't enjoy that bongo beatdown he experienced?

I know I enjoyed it...

[Opie 308]

How can a D core of Whitney, Orpik and Gonchar be compared to Tampa's? They are worlds apart.

I was more referring to long term. Gonchar's deal is up next season.

After the other two they have nothing.