Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[55fan 5,133]

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

That was directed at Micah. At the time, I thought he was criticizing Nick and Pavel for not catching a plane they didn't know they were supposed to catch to attend an event at which their presence was not required, and did not know that their presence was required until after the fact. He called them douchebags for doing so.

Later, he clarified his position that he was criticizing Nick for not playing. I disagree with that, but that's his opinion. He also retracted the douchebag statement. I then retracted that paragraph as it was no longer an accurate analogy of his opinion. Follow along. It isn't hard.

[Kira 451]

Okay, that is acceptable to me. I believe them, and I know they are both honest in their feelings about it. Take all the time you need, guys...

Micah, I respect your right to your opinion, but I think you are dead wrong in saying that these two are not honorable, and won't stand up for their teammates in a fight. This is not the way they play the game...we are not talking about two bully boys here...these two men play the game the way it should be played...with integrity. They do not need to go around beating up on the opposition just to prove themselves. If that is the kind of player you like, then fine, but these two are not that type. They have more respect for the game than that.

[55fan 5,133]

That's right. Nick and Pav are just degenerate assholes who don't give two s***s about their teammates, hence why you don't see either of them getting into frequent fights every time someone so much as glances at someone incorrectly. Also, they're s***ty guys! I hear they beat their wives and force their children to drink bleach.

Trade these sacks of crap immediately, we can clearly do better. We need GREAT men on our team, not these assholes.

You do like putting words in people's mouths, don't you?

[Broken 16 381]

17 pages of this thread begs to differ.

Jesus... get over the Lidstrom and Datsyuk thing already. It's played and over. Players have been a puppet show for the media for as long as I can remember... aside from a few memorable exceptions. I don't believe a thing they say concerning injuries or locker room discussions or discussions with the coach/GM/owner. It's all spin to some extent.

Nothing that is said will make me understand why they didn't bother to send a single representative from our team. Like I said before, I understand that you have total knowledge of player injuries and travel plans. Are you also claiming to know that not a single player on that roster would have been thrilled to go for that weekend?

Like I said, I'm over the fact that Lidstrom didn't go. I really wasn't that upset about HIM in the first place. I'm just very disappointed that the Wings didn't send a single player to represent the defending Stanley Cup Champions.

I've been watching and playing hockey since I was 7 years old. Even so, the hockey snobbery I see around here is awful. Since when is it ok for the SCC's to blow off the ASG? I just find that completely unacceptable and I really couldn't give two s***s wether or not you agree.

[Broken 16 381]

That was directed at Micah. At the time, I thought he was criticizing Nick and Pavel for not catching a plane they didn't know they were supposed to catch to attend an event at which their presence was not required, and did not know that their presence was required until after the fact. He called them douchebags for doing so.

Later, he clarified his position that he was criticizing Nick for not playing. I disagree with that, but that's his opinion. He also retracted the douchebag statement. I then retracted that paragraph as it was no longer an accurate analogy of his opinion. Follow along. It isn't hard.

I was just judging your analogy based on its own merits... and it sucked. Thats all.

Analogies almost always have gaping holes in them. Sometimes it's just better to refrain. Food for thought.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Broken 16

[40#1Fan 0]

MLive.com's own Ansar Khan reports that a very grumpy Nicklas Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk can't play during Tuesday's game against the Columbus Blue Jackets as there's no appeal process for their suspensions, and as such, the Wings will play with 11 forwards and 6 defencemen as Johan Franzen's ready to play, but Brad Stuart's still banged up...

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/01/ca...idstromdat.html

[egroen 384]

I've been watching and playing hockey since I was 7 years old...

Just because you have been watching/playing hockey for a whole two years now does not give you the right to come in and poop on our anti-Bettman parade.

[Broken 16 381]

Just because you have been watching/playing hockey for a whole two years now does not give you the right to come in and poop on our anti-Bettman parade.

Very funny...

I hate Bettman (and Crosby) as much as you guys, but I am very disappointed that the Wings couldn't get it together and send SOMEBODY. Jesus... send Hudler. He would have s*** himself. Bettman is obviously the clown in this scenario, but I feel the Wings fell short as well.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Broken 16

[lets go pavel 2]

Very funny...

I hate Bettman (and Crosby) as much as you guys, but I am very disappointed that the Wings couldn't get it together and send SOMEBODY. Jesus... send Hudler. He would have s*** himself. Bettman is obviously the clown in this scenario, but I feel the Wings fell short as well.

I understand what you're saying, and on one hand I agree, but I don't think it was left up to the team to just "send SOMEBODY" ... the league didn't want Huddles. Somewhere buried in the last however many pages I seem to remember reading that they asked for Hank, Hossa, and Rafalski, but all of them had plans already and declined.

[HockeytownRN 0]

I'm with you. I've met Nick and Pasha before as well, and neither of them strike me as the type who would fake an injury just to get out of this. I believe them when they say they hurt. They are not the type who fake it...they give everything they have out there every night. I believe them, and if they sit out tomorrow night, oh well. It's the way this whole thing was handled that bothers the hell out of me.

Kira, where did you meet them? Are you going to the Toast this year? I probably shouldn't have wasted the time I have being on here and reading all of the articles about this, but the whole thing just bugs me. Even their biggest (so-called) fans are questioning their loyalty, although I guess I should keep in mind that they would have been flamed for going injured also, lose/lose situation.

[Electrophile 3,554]

You do like putting words in people's mouths, don't you?

No, I have a problem with someone accusing players on our team of being poor teammates and in general, of being poor people. Nothing either one of them have done has given anyone cause to say it in the first place.

Pardon me for sticking up for them. Next time, I'll just let them be accused of whatever.

[55fan 5,133]

MLive.com's own Ansar Khan reports that a very grumpy Nicklas Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk can't play during Tuesday's game against the Columbus Blue Jackets as there's no appeal process for their suspensions, and as such, the Wings will play with 11 forwards and 6 defencemen as Johan Franzen's ready to play, but Brad Stuart's still banged up...

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/01/ca...idstromdat.html

I read elsewhere that Holland was not planning to appeal. "Cut and dried" he called it. This article also has Nick's injury listed as "ankle".

As much as I want to believe that Franzen will be back, I am still holding my breath.

Thank you for posting anyway. This is not a criticism of you.

[Broken 16 381]

I understand what you're saying, and on one hand I agree, but I don't think it was left up to the team to just "send SOMEBODY" ... the league didn't want Huddles. Somewhere buried in the last however many pages I seem to remember reading that they asked for Hank, Hossa, and Rafalski, but all of them had plans already and declined.

Hudler was just an example. I'm not sure who they asked for as far as replacements go... but somebody should have went, in my opinion. Oh well.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Broken 16

[55fan 5,133]

No, I have a problem with someone accusing players on our team of being poor teammates and in general, of being poor people. Nothing either one of them have done has given anyone cause to say it in the first place.

Pardon me for sticking up for them. Next time, I'll just let them be accused of whatever.

The accusation was that they were poor teammates and poor men due to their lack of fighting.

From everything I have read about them, they are considered to be great teammates by their actual teammates. They are also, judging from what I have read, great leaders. They are not fighters, they are playmakers and leaders. That is their role on the team.

The original poster questioned why they didn't fight or at least stand up for their teammates. I strongly disagree that this does not make them great teammates and great men.

You sarcastically added the part about how they treat their families. The original poster said no such thing, nor is throwing that in defending them from the original accusation.

I believe strongly that Nick and Pavel are great men and great teammates for the reasons I have stated above, not because they don't beat their wives and force their children to drink bleach, although that is a point in their favour.

[esteef 2,679]

Jesus... get over the Lidstrom and Datsyuk thing already. It's played and over. Players have been a puppet show for the media for as long as I can remember... aside from a few memorable exceptions. I don't believe a thing they say concerning injuries or locker room discussions or discussions with the coach/GM/owner. It's all spin to some extent.

Nothing that is said will make me understand why they didn't bother to send a single representative from our team. Like I said before, I understand that you have total knowledge of player injuries and travel plans. Are you also claiming to know that not a single player on that roster would have been thrilled to go for that weekend?

Like I said, I'm over the fact that Lidstrom didn't go. I really wasn't that upset about HIM in the first place. I'm just very disappointed that the Wings didn't send a single player to represent the defending Stanley Cup Champions.

I've been watching and playing hockey since I was 7 years old. Even so, the hockey snobbery I see around here is awful. Since when is it ok for the SCC's to blow off the ASG? I just find that completely unacceptable and I really couldn't give two s***s wether or not you agree.

I've been over it dude. You're the one who continues to rant and won't let it die. For the last time, everyone, including Lids and Dats are fine with sitting out against Columbus. The rule is stupid, but they knew what the outcome would be if they didn't go to the game and were already accepting the consequences. The issue, once again, is the changing of the rule at the last minute that didn't give ample time for all parties involved to reasonably be able to act upon. That's it. If Bettman simply tells Crosby no and makes him sit the next game, regardless if he merely shows up at the ASG or not, there's no issue here whatsoever. Go by what all the GMs agreed on in Feb and don't change it (ammend it whatever) unless all the GMs can take part in the discussion surrounding the new "ammendment". Making side deals for certain players is bulls***.

The enforcement of this rule to date at best has made Lids and Dats out to be a couple of prima donnas, and at worst liars.

f*** Bettman!

esteef

[Electrophile 3,554]

The accusation was that they were poor teammates and poor men due to their lack of fighting.

From everything I have read about them, they are considered to be great teammates by their actual teammates. They are also, judging from what I have read, great leaders. They are not fighters, they are playmakers and leaders. That is their role on the team.

The original poster questioned why they didn't fight or at least stand up for their teammates. I strongly disagree that this does not make them great teammates and great men.

You sarcastically added the part about how they treat their families. The original poster said no such thing, nor is throwing that in defending them from the original accusation.

I believe strongly that Nick and Pavel are great men and great teammates for the reasons I have stated above, not because they don't beat their wives and force their children to drink bleach, although that is a point in their favour.

Of course the part about how they treat their families was sarcasm. I know it wasn't in the original accusation and I do know what the original accusation was. I was again, bothered by the insinuation that because Nick and Pav aren't Bob Probert, they're bad teammates and bad people. I mean, it's not like he just said "oh they're crappy teammates because they won't fight to defend" he basically said they weren't good people either. Which is a really crappy thing to say, I think.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Electrophile

[HockeytownRN 0]

Very funny...

I hate Bettman (and Crosby) as much as you guys, but I am very disappointed that the Wings couldn't get it together and send SOMEBODY. Jesus... send Hudler. He would have s*** himself. Bettman is obviously the clown in this scenario, but I feel the Wings fell short as well.

Here's what I know, so maybe you can answer the question I have. Neither Pavs nor Lids were voted in, they were invited, which I think came way after the votes were announced? Then, they both obviously stated they weren't going to attend the ASG on either Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. Bettman asked if Hossa and Rafalski could fill in, and they both said, "Nope, got plans." Ok I know they make a lot of money, and they are in a sport that has "fans" but seriously do you think they or any other Wings player should give up a week of vacation with their family to attend the ASG? Seriously.....so my question is how do you suggest they should have sent someone with that short notice?

[Broken 16 381]

I've been over it dude. You're the one who continues to rant and won't let it die. For the last time, everyone, including Lids and Dats are fine with sitting out against Columbus. The rule is stupid, but they knew what the outcome would be if they didn't go to the game and were already accepting the consequences. The issue, once again, is the changing of the rule at the last minute that didn't give ample time for all parties involved to reasonably be able to act upon. That's it. If Bettman simply tells Crosby no and makes him sit the next game, regardless if he merely shows up at the ASG or not, there's no issue here whatsoever. Go by what all the GMs agreed on in Feb and don't change it (ammend it whatever) unless all the GMs can take part in the discussion surrounding the new "ammendment". Making side deals for certain players is bulls***.

The enforcement of this rule to date at best has made Lids and Dats out to be a couple of prima donnas, and at worst liars.

f*** Bettman!

esteef

I won't let it die? Lol... so the 4 pages since I was on late last night? Fake accounts?

Again you seem really, really fixated on Crosby and his 'special deal'. Whats with the Crosby obsession? Is it a man crush?

If you still insist that this is some conspiracy between Bettman, Crosby and the Wings... I really have to wonder about your sanity.

Obviously, they knew they were injured Tuesday night. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say early Wednesday. Why couldn't Holland make a quick phone call to Bettman, knowing that the ASG was looming. Then again, didn't Holland say that he refused to bother Nick and Pavs with a phone call?

Nobody knows the exact timeline of what took place, what phone calls occured when. But I find it HIGHLY doubtful that Bettman was only willing to work with Crosby. Who knows... maybe a few months down the road we WILL find out that it was some sick, twisted conspiracy and that Bettman and Crosby high-fived when nobody was looking. If that ever comes out, I'll be happy track down Bettman and give him a swirly. Till then, this Bettman/Crosby hate is just senseless garbage.

[Broken 16 381]

Here's what I know, so maybe you can answer the question I have. Neither Pavs nor Lids were voted in, they were invited, which I think came way after the votes were announced? Then, they both obviously stated they weren't going to attend the ASG on either Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. Bettman asked if Hossa and Rafalski could fill in, and they both said, "Nope, got plans." Ok I know they make a lot of money, and they are in a sport that has "fans" but seriously do you think they or any other Wings player should give up a week of vacation with their family to attend the ASG? Seriously.....so my question is how do you suggest they should have sent someone with that short notice?

I understand the time crunch. I just find it very hard to believe that:

A) Between Holland, Babcock and Bettman... not a single thing could be resolved between Wednesday morning and Friday morning. That seems ludicrous. I mean... this is the almighty Holland right? The guy that can make anything happen? You expect me to believe that sending a Wing to the ASG was out of his realm? C'mon...The end result... no players from the Wings are present and we look like arrogant dicks. (Queue the Bettman Conspiracy Theorists)

B) That not a single player on the roster was willing to take one for the team and go partying for an entire weekend on Bettmans dime.

I just think this whole thing reflects badly on the Wings and it's not all Bettmans fault. (Queue the "He's a troll/What team do you REALLY root for?" crowd)

That's just my opinion. Feel free to disregard.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Broken 16

[skacore 2]

I understand the time crunch. I just find it very hard to believe that:

A) Between Holland, Babcock and Bettman... not a single thing could be resolved between Wednesday morning and Friday morning. That seems ludicrous. I mean... this is the almighty Holland right? The guy that can make anything happen? You expect me to believe that sending a Wing to the ASG was out of his realm? C'mon...The end result... no players from the Wings are present and we look like arrogant dicks. (Queue the Bettman Conspiracy Theorists)

B) That not a single player on the roster was willing to take one for the team and go partying for an entire weekend on Bettmans dime.

I just think this whole thing reflects badly on the Wings and it's not all Bettmans fault.

That's just my opinion. Feel free to disregard.

Agree completely. People will do anything in their power to make it look bad on the league rather than the team, and then on top of that some people (some of the same) are outraged because the defending Stanley Cup Champions didn't have a representation at the all-star game... it's pretty comical.

[HockeytownRN 0]

I understand the time crunch. I just find it very hard to believe that:

A) Between Holland, Babcock and Bettman... not a single thing could be resolved between Wednesday morning and Friday morning. That seems ludicrous. I mean... this is the almighty Holland right? The guy that can make anything happen? You expect me to believe that sending a Wing to the ASG was out of his realm? C'mon...The end result... no players from the Wings are present and we look like arrogant dicks. (Queue the Bettman Conspiracy Theorists)

B) That not a single player on the roster was willing to take one for the team and go partying for an entire weekend on Bettmans dime.

I just think this whole thing reflects badly on the Wings and it's not all Bettmans fault.

That's just my opinion. Feel free to disregard.

I do think someone should have represented not just the Wings, but the Stanley Cup team this year also. There are a few single guys who could probably have gone, and would have been honored to be there, but I still think the time crunch was too much.

I just saw Lids on the news who said they knew about the rule (of sitting out a game, not that he still could have been exempted), and thought the best thing for the team was for him to sit out. Also, Babcock said on Channel 4 news that he is all for the ASG, believes it is very important, but after this the NHLPA and Bettman will have to iron out this rule and they could call it the "Lidstrom rule," and from now on if you miss the ASG, you sit out a game. I love Babcock!

Edited January 26, 2009 by HockeytownRN

[esteef 2,679]

I won't let it die? Lol... so the 4 pages since I was on late last night? Fake accounts?

Again you seem really, really fixated on Crosby and his 'special deal'. Whats with the Crosby obsession? Is it a man crush?

If you still insist that this is some conspiracy between Bettman, Crosby and the Wings... I really have to wonder about your sanity.

Obviously, they knew they were injured Tuesday night. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say early Wednesday. Why couldn't Holland make a quick phone call to Bettman, knowing that the ASG was looming. Then again, didn't Holland say that he refused to bother Nick and Pavs with a phone call?

Nobody knows the exact timeline of what took place, what phone calls occured when. But I find it HIGHLY doubtful that Bettman was only willing to work with Crosby. Who knows... maybe a few months down the road we WILL find out that it was some sick, twisted conspiracy and that Bettman and Crosby high-fived when nobody was looking. If that ever comes out, I'll be happy track down Bettman and give him a swirly. Till then, this Bettman/Crosby hate is just senseless garbage.

Typical, when you're out of ideas, start in with the man crush bs.

Holland didn't call, and pay attention this time, because the rule was already set in Feb and everyone already understood it. Why would they call to haggle a rule that's already clear and agreed upon by all the GMs? Lids and Dats were manning up and accepting their punishments for not going, regardless of how stupid the rule is.

And that's correct, there is no conspiracy, there's only fact. Lidstrom and Datsyuk are being "suspended" by a rule that was changed at the last minute to allow Crosby the ability to side-step the punishment. That's fact.

NOW everyone knows all you have to do is show up to still get to play, but it's a little late to be announcing it now after two of your elite ambassadors of the sport have been dragged through the media mud all weekend.

But yes, I'm sure it's all just man love.

esteef

[commadore183 103]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...dstrom_pav.html

Red Wings' Nicklas Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk upset about having to sit out a game

by Ansar Khan

Monday January 26, 2009, 3:54 PM

Update from Monday's practice: Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom and center Pavel Datsyuk both said they were disappointed in the NHL's decision to force them to sit out Tuesday's game in Columbus for withdrawing from the All-Star game due to injuries and not showing up in Montreal for the off-ice activities.

The Wings said, contrary to reports, there is no appeal process. It's cut and dry. They will not play tonorrow. Technically, it's not a suspension, as they will be paid. It's simply the NHL enforcing an understanding it and the league's general managers agreed to last February.

Lidstrom, who's been battling tentinitis in his right elbow for some time, said he didn't find out until Friday that he could have avoided the ban if he would have showed in Montreal for the off-ice part of it. But he said it didn't matter. He still wouldn't have showed up because he needed to stay home and get treatment for his elbow.

Datsyuk said he wasn't aware this loophole either -- that's how Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby avoided a one-game ban. Datsyuk said he's not sure if his strained hip flexor would have allowed him to play Tuesday anyway.

The bolded part is what is important in this discussion, the fact that Lidstrom and Datsyuk did not know about this loophole/exception/whatever until just hours before the activities began. That is what has everyone up in arms about. How hard is it for others to comprehend this point?

I have no problem about them sitting Tuesday game out, but how this all happened just begged for a s***storm. This whole thing could have been avoided if Bettman would have used his head and not made any exceptions at the last minute. Hopefully in the next GM meeting, they'll make damn sure that the rules don't get changed like that at the last minute.

God, Bettman makes it way too easy to other to call him a dumbass. He brought a lot of the hate on himself for how he handled this.

[Broken 16 381]

Typical, when you're out of ideas, start in with the man crush bs.

Coming from the guy that called me a f***in' retard for no good reason...

You really are a toad...

[esteef 2,679]

Coming from the guy that called me a f***in' retard for no good reason...

You really are a toad...

relative