Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The rule should never have been changed, especially if it will potentially throw two of the most elite, and respected players unnecessarily under the bus. But I wouldn't expect Bettman to have enough f***in' foresight to to think 5 minutes ahead of his decisions.

I don't blame Crosby either.

esteef

I agree 100%. IMO, the rule shouldn't even exist. I understand that things can be amended. However, the commish instated the rule. If he had any intention whatsoever of changing it, he should've let it be known he would change it long ago. But you are correct, he lacks any foresight whatsoever. He's a moron and this entire fiasco is further proof.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Babcock has already said in the media he didn't know where they were. This isn't daycare where they all walk around with their wrists tied together.

esteef

Right, but they knew the rule long, long ago. They could've made this phone call a week ago. Babs doesn't have to know where they are. Last I checked, Therrien didn't make the phone call for Sid. Sid made the phone call for Sid. So Babcock knowing or not knowing where they were doesn't mean a thing. The players knew the rule and by God, you better believe the Commish will answer the phone when Nick Lidstrom calls.

I get it though, our players took the rule at face value, didn't bother to call. So we're miffed. Fine, whatever. People need to get over it already. Frankly, if our guys are ailing, they could use another game and a couple more days off in the long run.

[esteef 2,679]

I agree 100%. IMO, the rule shouldn't even exist. I understand that things can be amended. However, the commish instated the rule. If he had any intention whatsoever of changing it, he should've let it be known he would change it long ago. But you are correct, he lacks any foresight whatsoever. He's a moron and this entire fiasco is further proof.

Well while we're being all nicey-nicey, I agree that had Lids and Dats called they probably would've gotten the deal too. But again, perception is everything, and to the rest of the league, it COULD look like a rule was changed at the last minute, and oh by the way, it just happened to benefit "you-know-who".

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

I have no beef with anybody who says Bettman changed the ruling. He did change it. And what a clusterf*** he caused by it. More proof Bettman's a tool.

My beef is the cockamamie belief that only Crosby could've gotten the sweet, cherry deal from Bettman that he did.

Like Bettman would've allowed it to be known he let Crosby off the hook but not Lids had Lids called and asked for some way to work it out. He would've let any of the players have the same deal if they had asked for it.

So the major bone I see here is Wings fans' argument is, "well the rule said this, so the Wings followed the rule because they're angels from heaven".

So you mean to tell me that as human beings when somebody confronts us with something we disagree with or don't like, you don't bother checking with the other party to see if there's a way around the situation?

Anybody ever been late making a payment on their credit card or phone bill and gotten a late fee? You know you're going to get a late fee. Ever called to see if you could get it waved do to whatever circumstances? I dunno, I guess maybe i'm the only person that doesn't take everything I read at face value and actually take the time to see if I can work something out when confronted with a situation I don't agree with. What a novel idea.

I understand what you're saying, but you have to realize the GM's just made the rule, and they ALL agreed to it. I'm not surprised that Lids and Dats didn't call, and at the same time I don't blame Crosby for calling, and quite frankly I think the revised rule is better. I just don't like how it was handled publicly by the league, and how the Wings were made an example of when they were following the rule that was in place when they made their decision.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

Now this shows the kind of boss you want to work for...and it shows why players would do anything to either join this organization or stay with it.

Bravo, Mr. Holland. Bravo.

By the way, we can voice our discontent....right to the asshat. Thursday afternoon at 4PM on NHL Home Ice on XM and Sirius, they do a call-in show with the Buttman. We need to flood the phone lines and emails with our opinions on this. If we call in and tell him what we think of this, he has to listen to us. I say we flood the phone lines and the emails with this.

...Nope. The powers that be will just tell their puppets (the shows hosts) NOT to accept any questions regarding the Lidstrom and Datsyuk rulings. Besides Bettfart would just dance around the question like he did when he was interviewed in Detorit and the radio guy asked him why the Wings are not in the East. He just danced around, fa la la, and said some crap like, create rivalry, attendance and a bunch of garbage which pretty much meant if he moved the Wings to the East, the West would fall. Because the Wings are the only team keeping the West in this league...

[commadore183 103]

Okay, I've read up to about page 19, so sorry if what I'm going to post has already been hashed about.

As far as I know, these are the facts:

1) This new rule/understanding (however you look at it) was proposed by Bettman last February to the GMs to prevent players selected to the ASG from blowing it off without a legitimate reason.

2) The rule/understanding states that if a player doesn't intend to play in the ASG due to injury, the player must sit out either the game immediately before or immediately after the ASG to confirm the injury.

3) The GMs voted on the rule/understanding, and it passed (not sure what the total yea/nay was, but obviously enough to be instated).

4) Datsyuk and Lidstrom asked Holland to skip the ASG to rehabilitated their injuries (hip flexor and tendonitis, respectively). Holland agreed to their requests, knowing that they would have to sit the next game out.

5) Sometime between last Tuesday and Friday, Bettman and Crosby had a telephone conversation (who called who first, I don't know), with Crosby stating that he won't be attending the ASG due to an injury. It was at this time that Bettman said that Crosby can attend the festivities and not be suspended even if he didn't play in the ASG.

6) Holland found out through the media about this revision to the rule/understanding on Friday, too late for Datsyuk and Lidstrom to get on a plane and fly to Montreal. Holland, to me, appears to be upset about this sudden revision to the rule/understanding, nearly a full year after the rule/understanding was first instituted, rather than the two players would be forced to sit out the next game immediately after the ASG.

The above is, basically, what I understand of the current situation. I think that what has many of us up in arms is that we didn't know about rule/understanding after it was passed AND that there was a sudden, last minute revision to said rule/understanding that we all just found out about Friday, as well as that it appears that this last minute revision favors Crosby. Crosby can make it to the ASG festivities because he is still in North America, a relatively short plane ride to Montreal, where as Datsyuk and Lidstrom are over probably over in Russia and Sweden, respectively. Datsyuk would have to suffer several hours in flight sitting in a seat due to his hip flexor injury (which make it painful to, say, lift your knee to your chest).

In this case, the NHL royally f***ed this whole situation up on how they handled it, especially in the media front.

Remember, the rule/understanding was that you would have to sit out either the game immediately before or immediately after the ASG if you did not play. On Friday, it was revised to you can attend the festivities and not be forced to sit the next game out even IF you didn't play in the ASG. That is the major beef here.

[esteef 2,679]

Okay, I've read up to about page 19, so sorry if what I'm going to post has already been hashed about.

As far as I know, these are the facts:

1) This new rule/understanding (however you look at it) was proposed by Bettman last February to the GMs to prevent players selected to the ASG from blowing it off without a legitimate reason.

2) The rule/understanding states that if a player doesn't intend to play in the ASG due to injury, the player must sit out either the game immediately before or immediately after the ASG to confirm the injury.

3) The GMs voted on the rule/understanding, and it passed (not sure what the total yea/nay was, but obviously enough to be instated).

4) Datsyuk and Lidstrom asked Holland to skip the ASG to rehabilitated their injuries (hip flexor and tendonitis, respectively). Holland agreed to their requests, knowing that they would have to sit the next game out.

5) Sometime between last Tuesday and Friday, Bettman and Crosby had a telephone conversation (who called who first, I don't know), with Crosby stating that he won't be attending the ASG due to an injury. It was at this time that Bettman said that Crosby can attend the festivities and not be suspended even if he didn't play in the ASG.

6) Holland found out through the media about this revision to the rule/understanding on Friday, too late for Datsyuk and Lidstrom to get on a plane and fly to Montreal. Holland, to me, appears to be upset about this sudden revision to the rule/understanding, nearly a full year after the rule/understanding was first instituted, rather than the two players would be forced to sit out the next game immediately after the ASG.

The above is, basically, what I understand of the current situation. I think that what has many of us up in arms is that we didn't know about rule/understanding after it was passed AND that there was a sudden, last minute revision to said rule/understanding that we all just found out about Friday, as well as that it appears that this last minute revision favors Crosby. Crosby can make it to the ASG festivities because he is still in North America, a relatively short plane ride to Montreal, where as Datsyuk and Lidstrom are over probably over in Russia and Sweden, respectively. Datsyuk would have to suffer several hours in flight sitting in a seat due to his hip flexor injury (which make it painful to, say, lift your knee to your chest).

In this case, the NHL royally f***ed this whole situation up on how they handled it, especially in the media front.

Remember, the rule/understanding was that you would have to sit out either the game immediately before or immediately after the ASG if you did not play. On Friday, it was revised to you can attend the festivities and not be forced to sit the next game out even IF you didn't play in the ASG. That is the major beef here.

You had me at "I read the first 19 pages.."

esteef

[SwedeLundin77 460]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is over all of this (in terms of Crosby hate.....again).

I'll admit that I have not been paying much attention to what has gone on in the past week, but I have to imagine that the phone call Crosby made was probably along the lines of "I'm truly hurting and need the rest so I do not hurt my team in the long run" - Crosby did sustain a knee injury and ended up missing a game (it just wasn't the game right before the break, it was 2 games prior), he came back and played the next 2 games, but was hurting. I think the conversation probably concluded that he could show up to the event, but not play and would be okay regarding this rule. Surely it must be absolutely clear to everyone that Crosby would love to be participating in the actual game (like most young players would). The issue the league has is that some players choose to simply skip it and relax. Clearly, in Crosby's case, it's not that he's getting special treatment because he is showing up, but doesn't have to play.....it's not the playing that players are trying to avoid, it's skipping the weekend and relaxing somewhere else that players are trying to do. Granted, I have no idea why the league wants Crosby to be there, but not play, as a fan, what are you really going to get of him being there, but not playing.

Lidstrom and Datsyuk could show up as well and not play, but they have chosen not to. I think it is a stupid ass rule, but to think there is some favouring of Crosby here is even more stupid. While I think the existing rule is stupid, I do think there needs to be some form of the rule in existence as it is important for the games stars to show up for these types of things.

There is no reason why Crosby should be able to have a direct call to the Commissioner of the NHL... That's the first issue I have. How many times have you heard of a single player having a conference call to the Commish? Personally, I have never heard of that and is just another point about how Cindy get's preferential treatment by the league and the media.

[esteef 2,679]

There is no reason why Crosby should be able to have a direct call to the Commissioner of the NHL... That's the first issue I have. How many times have you heard of a single player having a conference call to the Commish? Personally, I have never heard of that and is just another point about how Cindy get's preferential treatment by the league and the media.

Bettman's Office Please!!!

esteef

[Broken 16 381]

There is no reason why Crosby should be able to have a direct call to the Commissioner of the NHL... That's the first issue I have. How many times have you heard of a single player having a conference call to the Commish? Personally, I have never heard of that and is just another point about how Cindy get's preferential treatment by the league and the media.

Crosby used the 'Bat-phone' that Bettman gave him as a stocking stuffer...

You have no idea how that phone call went down. And, again, someone implies that Lidstrom wouldn't get the same respect from Bettman. Complete and total speculation with no basis whatsoever.

[Outsider 42]

I haven't read every page in all of the related threads, but I'm wondering:

1) Does anyone honestly expect that Ken Holland, (after he was made aware of the "attendance exemption" on Friday), should have called Dats and Lids and told them to change their plans and get on a plane?

Pfffft. Not bloody likely. Not only do you not "tell" these guys to change their plans, you don't even bother to make the call to "ask" them to consider it.

These are two class guys, who leave their guts on the ice for their Team, their Fans, and their League, every night. If they've decided to skip the festivities and accept the consequences, you do not second guess them. You trust their judgement implicitly. These are not selfish players. If they say they can't go, for whatever reason, then they can't go. Period.

2) With regard to the rumor that the League contacted the Wings requesting "replacements" for Pasha and Lidas, but were rebuffed:

I have a feeling that this little snafu, (the suspensions), stems largely from that. Bettman got a little pissy that the League's premier, flagship Franchise gave him a backhanded "mmmmnothanks" to his request that they send a rep from the defending Cup Champs to play in his little farce of a game.

Of course, this might have also something to do with the fact that Buttman recently declared, loud and clear, that the Red Wings, and the proud, (if embattled) city of Detroit couldn't even hope to be awarded an All Star Game until the Wings got a new arena, because the League "likes new arena's" rather than "old" ones.

Fair enough, Mr. Commissioner. You can continue to send the All Star Game festivities to the shiny, new, empty arena's in the deep south, while the Wings continue to Win Games that matter here in their broken down, "old" Arena.

3) Is this an "official" suspension? As in Official? Because if it is, should'nt that suspension come with no pay for the game these Players are being "suspended" for? Players are not paid for games for which they've been suspended.

And if they are, (indeed), to be paid for a game in which the League has mandated that they must not play....

Who's pickin' up the tab for their paycheck for that game?

Cuz I'm calculating about $82K for Pavs, and about $91K for Nick, for a Game that the League has mandated they not participate in, but for which they are to be paid.

4) In light of the petty ***** slap that Buttman has delivered to the DRW, (and make no mistake....that's exactly what it is, and precisely what it was intended to be from the start), I'm hoping that Kenny Holland has formulated his "final answer" to the League's question as to whether or not the Detroit Red Wings would be interested in opening up the 2009-2010 Season in Sweden.

"....mmmmmnothanks."

*click*

[55fan 5,133]

Okay, I've read up to about page 19, so sorry if what I'm going to post has already been hashed about.

As far as I know, these are the facts:

1) This new rule/understanding (however you look at it) was proposed by Bettman last February to the GMs to prevent players selected to the ASG from blowing it off without a legitimate reason.

2) The rule/understanding states that if a player doesn't intend to play in the ASG due to injury, the player must sit out either the game immediately before or immediately after the ASG to confirm the injury.

3) The GMs voted on the rule/understanding, and it passed (not sure what the total yea/nay was, but obviously enough to be instated).

4) Datsyuk and Lidstrom asked Holland to skip the ASG to rehabilitated their injuries (hip flexor and tendonitis, respectively). Holland agreed to their requests, knowing that they would have to sit the next game out.

5) Sometime between last Tuesday and Friday, Bettman and Crosby had a telephone conversation (who called who first, I don't know), with Crosby stating that he won't be attending the ASG due to an injury. It was at this time that Bettman said that Crosby can attend the festivities and not be suspended even if he didn't play in the ASG.

6) Holland found out through the media about this revision to the rule/understanding on Friday, too late for Datsyuk and Lidstrom to get on a plane and fly to Montreal. Holland, to me, appears to be upset about this sudden revision to the rule/understanding, nearly a full year after the rule/understanding was first instituted, rather than the two players would be forced to sit out the next game immediately after the ASG.

The above is, basically, what I understand of the current situation. I think that what has many of us up in arms is that we didn't know about rule/understanding after it was passed AND that there was a sudden, last minute revision to said rule/understanding that we all just found out about Friday, as well as that it appears that this last minute revision favors Crosby. Crosby can make it to the ASG festivities because he is still in North America, a relatively short plane ride to Montreal, where as Datsyuk and Lidstrom are over probably over in Russia and Sweden, respectively. Datsyuk would have to suffer several hours in flight sitting in a seat due to his hip flexor injury (which make it painful to, say, lift your knee to your chest).

In this case, the NHL royally f***ed this whole situation up on how they handled it, especially in the media front.

Remember, the rule/understanding was that you would have to sit out either the game immediately before or immediately after the ASG if you did not play. On Friday, it was revised to you can attend the festivities and not be forced to sit the next game out even IF you didn't play in the ASG. That is the major beef here.

Basically. Just a few corrections/comments.

Crosby called Bettman EDIT: Found the article here The gist of the article was that Bettman/NHL was upset that he wasn't going to be there. He called to "smooth things over" (direct quote).

Holland was called by Bettman on Friday (after Crosby hopped the plane) and told that Lids and Pav had to be there, even if they didn't play.

Holland had told them that they could take break and did not have to go. He had no reason to believe that their presence there was wanted or required as replacements had been found, and "it is unusual for an injured player to attend" (I believe that's from the same article).

The call to Holland came just hours before the festivities would begin.

I can't speak for others, but I was upset about the suspension until I heard about the rule. Then I was understood why they had to miss a game. What upsets me now is that Lids and Pav are being cast in the role of Selfish Prima Donna, when they are 2 of the last people who fit that description.

Never have players been called out for missing due to injury. Never have players for whom replacements have been found been required to attend. They were not given notice that this would be the case, although Bettman had 2 days to do it. The league and GMs may have voted that players miss a game if they didn't play, but Bettman took it upon himself to change the rules in the middle of the game. I'm sure he didn't call all of the GMs or owners to get their input, or Holland/Illitch would have known.

I understand those who think that it would have been a good thing for them to go. I disagree with it; but I understand it. The people I don't understand are those who think that the guys aren't really injured and that they are faking it to get out of it. Their track record, especially Nick's, speaks for itself.

Edited January 26, 2009 by 55fan

[Outsider 42]

There is no reason why Crosby should be able to have a direct call to the Commissioner of the NHL... That's the first issue I have. How many times have you heard of a single player having a conference call to the Commish? Personally, I have never heard of that and is just another point about how Cindy get's preferential treatment by the league and the media.

And, in my opinion, it's the reason why Bettman has been so unsuccessful in marketing the NHL. Because he's not marketing the NHL. He's attempting to market individuals.

That's not how this Game works. This is the ultimate Team sport. And it should be the TEAMS which are marketed, first and foremost, not the individual Players.

Players come and go. As great as they are, they come and go. They become injured. They slump. They get traded. They just flat out don't live up to expectations, sometimes. (Hellllloooooo? Rick DiPietro?).

Look at the embarassment of riches that the Wings have lost, to Free Agency, to injury, to retirement. It hasn't had a negative impact on this Team. That's because of the philosophy, the culture, within the Wings Organization.

The King is Dead. LONG LIVE THE KING!

Because it's not about the individual Player. It's not about personal glory. Steve Yzerman proved that.

It's about the Team. It's always been about the Team.

It may not be as "sexy" as choosing ONE Player, ONE "face" to represent the NHL, but it's the ONLY way to market a Game, and a League, where on nearly every beautiful goal scored, it is the goal scorer himself who immediately turns to his Teammate(s) and gestures:

"You - That was all you, buddy!"

And that is something that Gary Buttman, with his NBA background, will never understand.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Outsider

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Something just crossed my mind.

Does Bettman even have the power to sit there and change a rule on spot? Isn't there some executive board he has to go through in order to do it?

[seeinred 1,488]

...Nope. The powers that be will just tell their puppets (the shows hosts) NOT to accept any questions regarding the Lidstrom and Datsyuk rulings. Besides Bettfart would just dance around the question like he did when he was interviewed in Detorit and the radio guy asked him why the Wings are not in the East. He just danced around, fa la la, and said some crap like, create rivalry, attendance and a bunch of garbage which pretty much meant if he moved the Wings to the East, the West would fall. Because the Wings are the only team keeping the West in this league...

He'll probably actually take a question about it. I will give him credit for taking calls on controversial subjects, even if his answers are usually complete bulls***.

[ben_usmc 253]

personally I think the way the NHL went about this more made Dats and Lids say f*** you we are for sure not going now. I mean whenever someone tries to give you an altimatiam(spelling) most everyone says f*** you then I'm doing it to spite you now.

I do understand were the NHL is coming from the problem is they decided to now just enforce it, which they didn't in the past. Then they changed it when the Crosby situation came up and that makes it look even shadier(especially for Wings fans after the SCF). But the proper way to have gone about this would have been to say they will be enforcing this rule for the next ASG and on. With laws generally aren't they supposed to give a time for people to make adjustments to the new laws.

[55fan 5,133]

personally I think the way the NHL went about this more made Dats and Lids say f*** you we are for sure not going now. I mean whenever someone tries to give you an altimatiam(spelling) most everyone says f*** you then I'm doing it to spite you now.

I do understand were the NHL is coming from the problem is they decided to now just enforce it, which they didn't in the past. Then they changed it when the Crosby situation came up and that makes it look even shadier(especially for Wings fans after the SCF). But the proper way to have gone about this would have been to say they will be enforcing this rule for the next ASG and on. With laws generally aren't they supposed to give a time for people to make adjustments to the new laws.

I would have been perfectly happy had Bettman said that there was a bit of confusion about the new rule, and that if a player chose to, the player could attend without penalty; but this was not made clear to all involved in a timely fashion, and as such, there will be no suspensions this year, but there will be in future years. Just for him to admit that he messed up.

I could even live with the suspensions if he admitted that he handled this poorly. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I could live with it.

I don't know how the BOG feels about it, but the article I linked in my last post (which was dated Saturday) had this quote:

An NHL spokesman said Bettman would not be available for comment until a scheduled news conference today after a league Board of Governors meeting.

I wonder what was said.

[Broken 16 381]

personally I think the way the NHL went about this more made Dats and Lids say f*** you we are for sure not going now. I mean whenever someone tries to give you an altimatiam(spelling) most everyone says f*** you then I'm doing it to spite you now.

I do understand were the NHL is coming from the problem is they decided to now just enforce it, which they didn't in the past. Then they changed it when the Crosby situation came up and that makes it look even shadier(especially for Wings fans after the SCF). But the proper way to have gone about this would have been to say they will be enforcing this rule for the next ASG and on. With laws generally aren't they supposed to give a time for people to make adjustments to the new laws.

I think the main difference between Crosby and Lidstrom (and to a lesser extent, Datsyuk) is that Bettman has A LOT more influence over a younger player. Especially someone like Crosby. Between the Penguins and the League... they got that poor kid twisted in so many directions, he may never recover. Someone like Lidstrom isn't going to be intimidated by Bettman. Ever. Especially when he's getting moral support from his GM. The Wings knew full well what the consequences were. They obviously couldn't care less. I really don't see Bettman taking on the Wings, head on, in a PR battle. Even he isn't that stupid. He did what he had to do... he's making them sit a game.

[OlTimeHockey 0]

Isn't it odd.....the suspended players play for the people who pay their salaries: the people of Detroit.

So they have to play in this bloated, flufferfest ASG for the rest of the league or risk not playing for the fans of Detroit who pay their salaries?

Bettman should be neutered for the sake of humanity.

[MTU_Huskies963 398]

Wow did anyone hear what Brian Burke said when they were interviewing him on CBC? He want's people to stop whining about the all star game, and thinks that doing away with it would for a world cup would not be a good idea. Then when asked about Lids and Dats missing a game he agreed 100% with it. Then said they should have done what "Sid the Kid"(yes he called him that) did. He said more, and was practically throwing Lids and Dats under the bus.

[mjlegend 155]

Wow did anyone hear what Brian Burke said when they were interviewing him on CBC? He want's people to stop whining about the all star game, and thinks that doing away with it would for a world cup would not be a good idea. Then when asked about Lids and Dats missing a game he agreed 100% with it. Then said they should have done what "Sid the Kid"(yes he called him that) did. He said more, and was practically throwing Lids and Dats under the bus.

Really? There goes Sindy, Nick and Pavel's chances of ever fulfilling their life-long dreams of signing with the Maple Leafs.

Every time Burke opens his yap, something unclassy and uncalled-for spews out.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Wow did anyone hear what Brian Burke said when they were interviewing him on CBC? He want's people to stop whining about the all star game, and thinks that doing away with it would for a world cup would not be a good idea. Then when asked about Lids and Dats missing a game he agreed 100% with it. Then said they should have done what "Sid the Kid"(yes he called him that) did. He said more, and was practically throwing Lids and Dats under the bus.

... Says the guy who let two players decide when they want to show up for the season.

[MTU_Huskies963 398]

Oh god now they have bettman on interviewing with Ron Maclean. Maclean looks like he wants to deck bettman for the idea of suspending a player missing the game.

Edited January 26, 2009 by MTU_Huskies963

[RedArmy 4]

the funny thing is that not having wings players attend asg might only hurt the red wings fans watching the game, but does it really hurt NHL overall? red wings fans will watch wings regardless through out the season, so who cares. I wish Bettman spend this much energy on promoting Alex Ovechkin to help hockey instead of running around suspending Norris and Lady Bing winners...

[GoWings1905 2,694]

the funny thing is that not having wings players attend asg might only hurt the red wings fans watching the game, but does it really hurt NHL overall? red wings fans will watch wings regardless through out the season, so who cares. I wish Bettman spend this much energy on promoting Alex Ovechkin to help hockey instead of running around suspending Norris and Lady Bing winners...

I don't know what Bettman thinks, but I would want at least one player from the best team in the league to be represented at the ASG. Especially a team with as much talent as the Red Wings.