Osgood proves he doesn't deserve No. 1 spot

[Vladifan 680]

When are we going to see a blame Kronwall thread or a blame Draper's lack of hustle thread. Anti-Osgood posters say some of us are ignoring the signs of some terrible goaltending, I argue that many of you have little clue other than to blame a goaltender who has made a career as the whipping boy. When Osgood wins a cup you've "always believed in him! Ozzy Ozzy Ozzy!", when he gets pulled after defensive breakdown after defensive breakdown you've "always known he was a product of the team! Osgood Sucks!". It'd be amusing if it was so sad and predictable.

Next game just for laughs, watch Kronwall the whole game, or see how many times in a week of play he turns over the puck at the faceoff dots while trying a break out or stretch pass from behind his own goal, turnovers that get by even Ty Conklin. And if your attention span is great enough to focus on more than one player to blame, on account of hockey being a team sport, watch how many times Draper is caught not hustling and flat footed, how many times you see him watching the play instead of trying to stop it. And *gasp* whatever you do don't look at three time Norris winner, now 47 year old Chris Chelios.

(Don't be confused by the above statements, I like Kronwall, Draper, and Chelios, and I'm by no means saying Osgood has been terrific. My point is few have been great and many have been a bigger problem than Osgood)

THANK you. And amen.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Great post. What is it with people not understanding the concept of a goaltender's role? If we just wanted to guy to stop the stoppable shots, we'd put Piet Van Zant in net and be done with it - maybe Darren McCarty. A goaltender is supposed to make the tough stops that keep you in the game - hes supposed to steal a few goals. Not games, but goals. Just like Turco did for the Stars last night. Was he great? No. But he was good enough.

Think of it this way. If Pavel Datsyuk was only scoring goals when he had an open or near open net, but couldn't score a goal when the goaltender was well positioned, would you still call him a good goal scorer? Not in a million years. Yet thats basically the argument that half the people are making on this board in Ozzie's defense.

And I love how we have a slew of psychics on this board that just "know" Osgood "will" be better in the playoffs. After all, isn't that what happened with Hasek?

Very well thought out post. I do have to disagree with you to a degree however. Yes Ozzy needs to play better and yes we need him to steal a few goals but we didn't go out and spend $5-6M to get a goalie like Turco we spent less than $1.5M. Kind of like what you were saying about Pav, the Wings pay the guy $6.7M and expect him to play like a $6-7M player which means he is a goal scorer, play maker, or combo of the two. I don't think that you can expect as much from Draper or Samuelsson. Don't get me wrong Ozzy needs to play better (much better sometimes) but the defense is a shadow of what it was last year, Ozzy is not playing well (whether mentally, physically, or whatever something is off) and has to be better but we didn't shell out for a top paid goalie (which was wise I think) but have a goalie who has proven he can win games and Cups (I just hope he gets in the groove in time for the playoffs). Maybe it would help if he sat 4-5 games or something.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Agreed. Osgood hasn't been great, but really has had to face some no chance stops. Osgood could do a lot better, but so could half the team.

[tubaguy 0]

I will continue to defend Ozzie, he WILL show up in the playoffs for us and play big when it REALLY matters.

I was thinking like you toward the beginning of the season; however I am now on the other side of the camp. Osgood has shown us no evidence that he can return to his 08 playoff form. From game one, when he misplayed the puck, gave it away and gave up a practically-empty net goal, he hasn't looked like his playoff self. He hasn't stolen a game, he hasn't played mediocre, he has been flat out bad. I don't think Osgood is a goalie that can just turn it on. He isn't Hasek, who was notorious for having a bad regular season and standing on his head in the playoffs. Ozzie is a year older and had a short summer. There is no doubt that he has it in him to play better, I just don't believe that it will come out this year. For the life of a "veteran" athlete, a few months can make a difference. He may be over the hill. I just hope that our only alternative isn't Conklin when Holland realizes it.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I have been asked to post this for someone - so here it goes.

"Little pink elephants have told me that OsGOD says all you doubters can go to hell!!!"

[Chunkylover 26]

I find it difficult to separate what goals he can be blamed for and what goals the team defense should bear responsibility for. Last night Dallas just outworked the Wings' forwards and Ozzie isn't one of them. Even the best goalies can't stop deflections off the screen or one's like Rafalski's against CBJ the other night. Something must be done because now we are getting a little close to the post-season and unfortunately either Osgood or Conklin will be our starter and neither instills much confidence in me.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I find it difficult to separate what goals he can be blamed for and what goals the team defense should bear responsibility for. Last night Dallas just outworked the Wings' forwards and Ozzie isn't one of them. Even the best goalies can't stop deflections off the screen or one's like Rafalski's against CBJ the other night. Something must be done because now we are getting a little close to the post-season and unfortunately either Osgood or Conklin will be our starter and neither instills much confidence in me.

He should've had the 3rd goal against him.

At any rate, you don't have to sit there and figure out which goals he should've stopped and which he shouldn't have. Theoretically, he SHOULD stop all of them, but obviously no goalie can do that.

The question to ask yourself should be "how many times in a game does Osgood steal a goal from the other team" and then think about that in relation to the question "how many times did Turco (for example) steal a goal from us?"

Frankly, I can't think of many times this season - let alone more than once in a game - where I can say "wow, Ozzie really saved a goal there." And I definitely can't think of many times this season where I thought to myself "wow, Ozzie not only saved a goal there, but hes saved more goals tonight that the [opposition's goaltender] has."

Edited January 30, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[Doc Holiday 0]

He should've had the 3rd goal against him.

At any rate, you don't have to sit there and figure out which goals he should've stopped and which he shouldn't have. Theoretically, he SHOULD stop all of them, but obviously no goalie can do that.

The question to ask yourself should be "how many times in a game does Osgood steal a goal from the other team" and then think about that in relation to the question "how many times did Turco (for example) steal a goal from us?"

Frankly, I can't think of many times this season - let alone more than once in a game - where I can say "wow, Ozzie really saved a goal there." And I definitely can't think of many times this season where I thought to myself "wow, Ozzie not only saved a goal there, but hes saved more goals tonight that the [opposition's goaltender] has."

You mean like the Dallas game where he had 49 shots against him? Or the Ducks game where he saved a goal with less than a minute left in the game?

I compare the goaltenders on a game by game basis. Conklin has not been screwed nearly as much as Osgood has. There was a third goal that maybe he should have stopped (isn't hindsight the best?!) but Osgood was hung out to dry and that does not help a goalie's confidence. Conklin even let in a goal (did anyone say he overcommitted on the shot?) early into the second.

Detroit didn't play good enough, and Osgood wasn't the reason. He wasn't the reason against Columbus either.

[b.shanafan14 733]

You mean like the Dallas game where he had 49 shots against him? Or the Ducks game where he saved a goal with less than a minute left in the game?

I compare the goaltenders on a game by game basis. Conklin has not been screwed nearly as much as Osgood has. There was a third goal that maybe he should have stopped (isn't hindsight the best?!) but Osgood was hung out to dry and that does not help a goalie's confidence. Conklin even let in a goal (did anyone say he overcommitted on the shot?) early into the second.

Detroit didn't play good enough, and Osgood wasn't the reason. He wasn't the reason against Columbus either.

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

I love Ozzie as much as the next person, but this has gone on long enough. Back at the beginning of the season, everyone was saying "Oh it's only October. It's only November. It's not time to worry yet." Well it's going to be February the day after tomorrow. We've got about two months left of the season. So when exactly will it be time to worry?

I do agree that the entire team needs to pick it up, especially the defense. But how can we expect to win sixteen games in the playoffs letting in 3 or 4 goals per game? I'm not expecting Osgood to be perfect, but as some people have said, it is his job to save us when the defense messes up.

Yeah we were shorthanded a lot during the first period. But we're going to be shorthanded sometimes. We're going to get penalized. And Osgood needs to be there for us when it happens.

And yes there were breakaways that led to San Jose winning. And we know that's the defense's fault and that we should never let that happen. But when there's a breakaway, Ozzie needs to be ready to save us. It's his job. Right now, it's at the point where if there's a breakaway or a penalty, I'll predict that we get scored on.

The defense is going to allow shots on goal. No defense is completely perfect. But if the goalie isn't going to be able to stop those shots that the defense allows, then they are playing basketball, not hockey.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I am not thinking of just last night's game. This has been building throughout the season. Last night's showing was just the last straw.

I absolutely can not stand watching Osgood wave at shots as they go by him.

Someone above said that Conklin has not been hung out to dry like Osgood has. This is not true, and if you really are honest about this and not look at the ice through Osgood-colored glasses you will agree with me.

How many times when Conklin is in goal has he come from one post to the other and made the stop on a shot that would have been a goal in most circumstances? See video below for an example.

Kronwall isn't giving the puck away in front of the net only when Osgood is in there. That's the only thing consistent in his game!

The goalie needs to make the stop when the defense breaks down. As Conklin has, to this point, been better at making those stops, he has earned the majority of starts.

Edited January 30, 2009 by Mickeyisms Rule!

[lets go pavel 2]

Someone above said that Conklin has not been hung out to dry like Osgood has. This is not true, and if you really are honest about this and not look at the ice through Osgood-colored glasses you will agree with me.

Exactly what color is that?

Seriously, I agree with almost everything you and others are saying ... except the conclusion. Ozzie has not played well. He has not looked good. Many of the saves he makes, it does seem like he's just flailing at the puck. I can't remember the last clean glove save he's made. Not everything that has gotten past him is fault, the defense has had its share of meltdowns too, but he also hasn't bailed out the defense much at all. Conklin has looked better.

However, now is the time that he SHOULD play. What good does benching him do? For the most part, despite his poor play, he hasn't been singlehandedly costing us games. We're going to need him come playoff time, and we're going to need him on his game. I just don't see how benching him is going to help that. I'm good with alternating starts, but Ozzie needs to keep playing, and we'll just need to keep cringing at every shot against until he finally gets his s*** together.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Conklin just got lucky that's all

[Echolalia 2,961]

So if its not Osgood's fault that Osgood's goals against is almost at 3.5 per game (42nd in nhl, and by the way, theres only 30 teams), and Osgood's save percentage is at .880 (44th in nhl), then who's is it? The defense? Because Conklin plays with the same team, and he's 12th in the league in save percentage, and 7th in the league with goals against. Thats a huge statistically significant difference. Heck, Conklin has 5 shutouts already. Osgood's still looking for number one. But those are just numbers, right?

Yeah, the defense hasn't been up to Detroit standards. If you can't see that, you're watching the wrong end of the ice. But its not preventing Conklin from controlling his rebounds and playing sound positional hockey. Just watch him. He's playing smart goaltending. Osgood looks lost out there. Well, maybe the defense is a little more shaky with Osgood in net, so they don't play as well. I have to be honest. This is one of the worst arguments for the defense of a goaltender I have ever heard. First of all, if this is actually the case, thats further argument to NOT play the goalie. When he's in net, the goalie is bad, the defense is bad. Lets just sit him and solve BOTH problems. Secondly, if I was playing in front of mr. 3.5 GAA, .880%, I would be nervous too. I have no idea how fast I'm going to need to be on another uncontrolled rebound, and I have no idea where the thing is bouncing. I'm going to need to be right ontop of the shooter, and right besides Osgood at the same time, because if I'm not on the shooter, then its my fault that he had a clean shot into the net to score on. If I'm not next to Osgood, then its my fault again that I wasn't there to clear out that juicy rebound. Yes, I'm going to be playing very nervous. But I'm not an nhl player. I've gone as far as midget-B, and currently play IM at college. Which brings me to my next point: its the nhl. And its the Red Wings. From all the playoff games and come-from-behind victories and experience playing with Dom (the most unpredictable goalie ever), and other high pressure situations, I have little doubt that they can handle the pressures of having an incompetent goalie behind them, and "nervousness" isn't going to affect their game all that much.

Now in light of all of this, Osgood has proven in the past that he can lead this team. So I'm not saying that he shouldn't play in the playoffs, or we should dump him just yet. What I am saying is that the season is already past half way over, and he's running out of chances to turn it back on. Which scares me, because I don't think Conklin has the playoff experience to take us deep. But as of right now, he's currently our best option.

[lets go pavel 2]

Now in light of all of this, Osgood has proven in the past that he can lead this team. So I'm not saying that he shouldn't play in the playoffs, or we should dump him just yet. What I am saying is that the season is already past half way over, and he's running out of chances to turn it back on. Which scares me, because I don't think Conklin has the playoff experience to take us deep. But as of right now, he's currently our best option.

Which is exactly why he NEEDS to be playing. He's not going to get it going sitting on the bench. We can't sit him until the playoffs and then hope he can turn it on when we need him. Unless the Wings decide they are through with Ozzie entirely there is no sense in benching him and only playing Conklin. We don't need to play our best option now, but we do need to have all of our options available come playoff time.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Exactly what color is that?

Seriously, I agree with almost everything you and others are saying ... except the conclusion. Ozzie has not played well. He has not looked good. Many of the saves he makes, it does seem like he's just flailing at the puck. I can't remember the last clean glove save he's made. Not everything that has gotten past him is fault, the defense has had its share of meltdowns too, but he also hasn't bailed out the defense much at all. Conklin has looked better.

However, now is the time that he SHOULD play. What good does benching him do? For the most part, despite his poor play, he hasn't been singlehandedly costing us games. We're going to need him come playoff time, and we're going to need him on his game. I just don't see how benching him is going to help that. I'm good with alternating starts, but Ozzie needs to keep playing, and we'll just need to keep cringing at every shot against until he finally gets his s*** together.

I'm not too sure what color they are, but since they make you see something like it was in the past, I wouldn't mind a pair so my wife seems skinny.

All kidding aside, though. Yep, continue to play Osgood and we can continue to have to work way too hard to win. I'm not advocating Conklin playing 100% of the games from now until the end of the season, but he should play more of them than he is.

Osgood has given up 12 goals in his last 7 periods of hockey. That's almost 2 goals against per period! It's absolutely brutal and I just can't stand to watch it.

[Red Crazy 201]

" Ozzie is the best goalie ever" or " Ozzie sucks" the bottom line is that the team is playing better in front of Conklin right now and Conklin IS playing better then Ozzie so start Conklin for a few games and get some wins going. I do not agree with riding things out with Ozzie, his confidence is shot and that will not come back with nightly shellings.

I think Ozzie was or is a great goalie but this season he has looked old and tired. He is out of position on a lot of goals he lets in and his recovery time is terrible. A short summer and being another year older I think could be the problem. START CONKS!

For those of you that make remarks about spelling and grammar... GET A LIFE! (not everyone is as perfect as you)

[Dominator2005 558]

It's never his fault. Don't say defensmen didn't do there job bla bla bla. Well that's why there's the goalie. So he could stop what the defensmen can't. If the Defense could do everything, why we even dressing a goalie for?

Osgood is responsible for all the goals he let in.

Let's make this clear, I love Osood but I'm honnest guy and I don't let my favorite player get in the way of the truth.

This year up to now HE SUCKS, HAS BEEN PLAYING TERRIBLE / IS PLAYING TERRIBLE ... don't know if he will play like this in the playoffs.

Conklin is playing much better then he is now so I rather go with him. End of story

I agree 100%

[Dominator2005 558]

I am not thinking of just last night's game. This has been building throughout the season. Last night's showing was just the last straw.

I absolutely can not stand watching Osgood wave at shots as they go by him.

Someone above said that Conklin has not been hung out to dry like Osgood has. This is not true, and if you really are honest about this and not look at the ice through Osgood-colored glasses you will agree with me.

How many times when Conklin is in goal has he come from one post to the other and made the stop on a shot that would have been a goal in most circumstances? See video below for an example.

Kronwall isn't giving the puck away in front of the net only when Osgood is in there. That's the only thing consistent in his game!

The goalie needs to make the stop when the defense breaks down. As Conklin has, to this point, been better at making those stops, he has earned the majority of starts.

Conklin is lucky...

[Dominator2005 558]

Great post. What is it with people not understanding the concept of a goaltender's role? If we just wanted to guy to stop the stoppable shots, we'd put Piet Van Zant in net and be done with it - maybe Darren McCarty. A goaltender is supposed to make the tough stops that keep you in the game - hes supposed to steal a few goals. Not games, but goals. Just like Turco did for the Stars last night. Was he great? No. But he was good enough.

Think of it this way. If Pavel Datsyuk was only scoring goals when he had an open or near open net, but couldn't score a goal when the goaltender was well positioned, would you still call him a good goal scorer? Not in a million years. Yet thats basically the argument that half the people are making on this board in Ozzie's defense.

And I love how we have a slew of psychics on this board that just "know" Osgood "will" be better in the playoffs. After all, isn't that what happened with Hasek?

Maybe we should just put Downey in net (instead of Osgood), we are going to have same "quality" of goaltending and some grit/fighting ability... it's win-win situation... Downey can't SUCK more that Osgood so far...

[Guest tini]

I give him a little more credit than it sounds like you do, but I think Osgood has had plenty of time to show that he is the same goalie he was last year and it is painfully obvious that he has failed to do so. Regardless of the quality or quantity of the scoring chances we give up, he simply has to be better.

Agreed

[Gutierrez 7]

If the defense sucks so badly, and I do admit that they aren't as dominant as they were last season, then how is it that Conklin's GAA and save% is so much higher than Ozzie's?

This.

That should end the debate right there. The only explanation is that the defense plays better with Conklin in net which seems like a stretch. The other is that he is just playing better, which seems more likely.

[Dominator2005 558]

This.

That should end the debate right there. The only explanation is that the defense plays better with Conklin in net which seems like a stretch. The other is that he is just playing better, which seems more likely.

It smells like conspiration to me - they (DEF) hate Osgood... We should trade all DEF and keep Osgood...

[Chunkylover 26]

He should've had the 3rd goal against him.

At any rate, you don't have to sit there and figure out which goals he should've stopped and which he shouldn't have. Theoretically, he SHOULD stop all of them, but obviously no goalie can do that.

The question to ask yourself should be "how many times in a game does Osgood steal a goal from the other team" and then think about that in relation to the question "how many times did Turco (for example) steal a goal from us?"

Frankly, I can't think of many times this season - let alone more than once in a game - where I can say "wow, Ozzie really saved a goal there." And I definitely can't think of many times this season where I thought to myself "wow, Ozzie not only saved a goal there, but hes saved more goals tonight that the [opposition's goaltender] has."

I hear you and don't disagree that he hasn't been stellar, but then I don't think anyone has accused Ozzie of being a stellar goalie. He's always been a decent goalie on a great team and right now he's being taken advantage of because the team in front of him has been as inconsistent as he has.

[mustang051664 0]

Let's face facts, and it is that Osgood has been terrible this season. Last season is just that, last season. He's been awful all season long, and those who think otherwise are just fooling themselves. I say start Conklin. If it weren't for him, the Wings wouldn't be where they are now.