Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Fil couldn't land us a 1st, 2nd or a 3rd?

Your reading comprehensive skills are still challenged, I see. I'm the guy who said Holland would be more *likely* to trade Hudler than Filppula, which is absolutely *NIL*.

If I would have said "the world is likely to get hit by a meteor than Holland trading Fil", would you have read "MrSandMan said the world is under attack"?

Here, I hate to see struggling people. Have your mom check into this for you http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

Good luck!

You think Filpulla could get us a 1st a 2nd and a 3rd in the trade market, like Hudler can when hes an RFA?

What drugs are you taking, I want them.

As for my comprehension remark, I was regarding a post you had where you said you THOUGHT HUDLER WOULD BE TRADED at the deadline, it's in the first trade deadline topic, you never replied to my rebuttel.

As for Filpulla being safeguarded, what makes you so sure about this? The fact that he's overpaid, keeping us from signing a better player in Hudler/Franzen, or the fact that he's a defensive minded forward on a team full of them, and brings little to this team that we don't allready have.

Val's FAR MORE VALUABLE to another team than ours, Holland knows this. He will be traded if we can find a buyer this Offeseason. Mark my words

[seeinred 1,488]

He will be traded if we can find a buyer this Offeseason. Mark my words

I haven't said that Val's untouchable. I just think most people here are grossly understating his talent/value to this organization. Anyone's able to be traded if the right offer comes along.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

You really, truly argue (and spell) like a 4th grader (I figured I could get away with 1 ad hominem and still look infinitely better than you).

And yes, Dats, Z, and Hossa could have gotten more. That's my point. They're paid less than they're worth. If they're paid less than they're worth, then obviously a player's worth isn't determined by his salary.

I was never arguing that. It is YOU that needs your comprehension skills checked.

A player's worth more often than not IS determined by offered salary, or do you think Lebda could get 8 million on the open market?

Please stand back, and re read my post....btw may I ask, Is english your first language? Given your Finnish profile, I honestly think your just misreading my posts, and were not even arguing here.

Haha, I just posted the same thing about her. I suggested to her that maybe her mom should check into http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

It's sad that her school system failed her.

1) I'm a guy

2) I got a 32 on my Act, and a 29 on Reading comprehension( top 8 percentile)

3) You still have not once responded with a remotley interesting response proving your arguement to be right. Only unfunny jokes. Have fun making 30 k a year bud.

[wingslionstigers 12]

Val's FAR MORE VALUABLE to another team than ours, Holland knows this. He will be traded if we can find a buyer this Offeseason. Mark my words

Yeah your right. The Wings definitely can afford to get rid of a great defensive player this season. Our defense has just been so great one of our top defensive players is expandable.

We are scoring tons of goals if anything our offensive only players are the most expandable.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I haven't said that Val's untouchable. I just think most people here are grossly understating his talent/value to this organization. Anyone's able to be traded if the right offer comes along.

In your previous post you said Hudler had a more likely chance than Filpulla getting traded, as his chance was quote on quote NIL.

FAIL.

Or did I misinterpet of the meaning Nil? Obviously you were talkign about Jim Nill Right? Go back on your word more, it's what all the other cool kids are doing.

Edit: My aplogies didn't read name, thought you were Mr. Sandman.

Edited February 17, 2009 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[Copenhagen848 58]

Bravo to posts #37 and #41.....no more discussion needed.

[Guest MrSandMan]

I haven't said that Val's untouchable. I just think most people here are grossly understating his talent/value to this organization. Anyone's able to be traded if the right offer comes along.

But it gives them a reason to ***** about this team. I've come to the startling conclusion that we could go 82-0 in the regular season and 16-0 in the playoffs for the next 5 years straight, and these people will still find reasons to ***** and demand players to be fire.

I feel bad for these people, actually. I wouldn't want to live their miserable lives. I'd probably try to gouge out my eyes with a rusted fork from living in such misery.

Wings allows one, then all hell breaks out!

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

But it gives them a reason to ***** about this team. I've come to the startling conclusion that we could go 82-0 in the regular season and 16-0 in the playoffs for the next 5 years straight, and these people will still find reasons to ***** and demand players to be fire.

I feel bad for these people, actually. I wouldn't want to live their miserable lives. I'd probably try to gouge out my eyes with a rusted fork from living in such misery.

Wings allows one, then all hell breaks out!

If you truly belive that, well then it is you with the comprehension issue. Were arguing the fact that Fil isn't the 4th best forward. I would laugh at you,b ut I know you really dont belive that we hate the red wings, your just trying to rationlise to yourself on why these "mean guys with their logic, and stats" are trouncing you on this argument.

[seeinred 1,488]

In your previous post you said Hudler had a more likely chance than Filpulla getting traded, as his chance was quote on quote NIL.

FAIL.

Or did I misinterpet of the meaning Nil? Obviously you were talkign about Jim Nill Right? Go back on your word more, it's what all the other cool kids are doing.

Edit: My aplogies didn't read name, thought you were Mr. Sandman.

The least you could do is edit the post to take the insults out.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I haven't said that Val's untouchable. I just think most people here are grossly understating his talent/value to this organization. Anyone's able to be traded if the right offer comes along.

Grossly understating his value is not saying that hes a 6/7th forward right now. Thats entirely feasible. And the only reason people are "understating" his value is because we have hardcore cap issues, and we need to get the most out of the least. Filppula costing us 3M and only putting up 29 points in 57 games despite playing over 16 minutes a game isn't low cost/high value.

If Franzen didn't have 16 more goals than Filppula, and if Hudler didn't have 18 more points than Filppula, and we didn't have a plethora of two-way forwards, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation. If Filppula were the RFA/UFA at hand, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If Franzen wasn't showing his 27 goal season was not a fluke, and if Hudler wasn't developing and improving at a ridiculous rate, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Guest MrSandMan]

1) I'm a guy

My bad, I stand corrected then. I guess one shouldn't assume, but from reading some of your posts I thought you were a whiny little school girl with bad reading comprehension skills.

Da Ville Michigan probably isn't rank too high for their school system, huh?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

My bad, I stand corrected then. I guess one shouldn't assume, but from reading some of your posts I thought you were a whiny little school girl with bad reading comprehension skills.

Da Ville Michigan probably isn't rank too high for their school system, huh?

So now you're a misogynist, too? Thats not cool, dude.

[egroen 384]

Filppula is a wreck offensively -- and offense just can not be taught -- while defense can.

There is a better chance that Hudler becomes as good as Filppula defensively, than the chance Filppula becomes even remotely as talented offensively as Hudler.

He completely misses the net half the time he shoots... so much so that I am actually kind of suprised his shot % is so low.

Frankly, given his linemates and his minutes over the past two years, it is amazing his points are still low.

He was consistently on the second line last year and received ample power play time. He was getting 17 minutes a game and 1:50 in PP time. Despite that, he was outscored by:

Cleary (42 - 36) who played in 15 less games than Val, playing more of a checking role and w/ worse linemates.

Hudler (42 - 36) who played 4 minutes less per game and with much worse linemates.

Holmstrom (40 - 36) who played in 19 less games.

Samuelsson (40 - 36) who played in 5 less games.

Franzen (38 - 36) who played in 6 less games and also played more of a checking role than Val last year.

Filppula is more of an upgraded Draper than he is a downgraded Datsyuk or Zetterberg. He looks lost in the offensive zone; his shot is poor and he is not much of a playmaker. And that has not improved since last year.

From the moment players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hudler and to a lesser degree, Leino, stepped onto the ice, you saw their offensive potential. I have never seen that with Filppula.

He has improved defensively. Cleary and Franzen both received a lot more PK time than him last year and while Cleary still gets more PK time this year, Franzen has been used more on the PP. Amongst forwards on the team defensively, I rank him solidly in the second group (after Datsyuk and Zetterberg) which includes Cleary, Hossa, Filppula, Draper and Franzen -- the order of which fluctuates on a game-to-game basis. Point being, he is hardly unique among this team as far as responsible two-way play.

I would be pretty disgusted if Holland lets Hudler go in favor of Filppula -- Jiri has done nothing but improve offensively, defensively as well as physically and proved every naysayer wrong every step of the way. I am not sure if there is a player on the team who plays with more heart and passion on a consistent basis... and his progression is showing no hiccups. He looked outstanding with Hossa on the second line the other day. Hudler is just that unique of a player, while a speedy, defensively responsible guy like Filppula is a lot easier to replace.

I am now flip-flopping on Franzen or Filppula. I am just getting tired of Franzen's injuries, as he is no help to the team when he is sitting out. This year started out strong for him, and he was scoring goals at a similar pace to Hossa, as well as backchecking hard -- but that faded very quickly. Maybe he has been nursing an injury and this is an excuse to get him 100%, but for the last half of the season he has been underwhelming. At this point, if he is asking for more money than Filppula, I would probably be fine keeping Filppula. If Franzen comes back and we see the same lackluster play from him, I am more than fine if he walks at the end of the year -- as both Filppula and Hudler have been putting in a much better effort.

Final point -- If Franzen and Hudler happened to have become free agents before Filppula, and were both signed -- I bet there would be very few posters here talking about trading Franzen and Hudler so Filppula could stay.

Edited February 17, 2009 by egroen

[sureWhyNot 19]

Heres a prime example of one of your stat sheet boys. Knows nothing about the game just googles the stats and catches the highlights on sports center. You failed to mention anything you know about these players from actual experience, All you have is these stats.

See the thing is im aware of the stats you just shown me. Also when i said i don't actually have any facts. If you read what i wrote following that you would understand that i was talking about how many points each player has from being on the 1st/2nd line.

I know your not the brightest guy in the world but my entire post was pretty much explaining why Flip doesn't have the numbers that the rest of these players have.

Your entire post looks like you read my topic title and then went on to write your post.

OK - I didn't want to get into name calling and personal insults but if you want too, fine by me.

One of us "stat sheet boys" proves that you are either a complete idiot, or realize that by any measure, of close to any category in the game of hockey Fillipula is no where near our 4th best forward. I did read your post, and quite frankly it was a long winded statement that acknowledged the fact you had no stats to back up anything you claimed, but still really, really like the guy. You used some bizarre rationale, and your rhetoric was clearly driven by personal feelings about Flip and the rest of the Red Wings forwards.

Flip does not have the same numbers as the rest of the guys BECAUSE HE IS NOT AS GOOD --or should I say, he is not as good as 6-8 of the other Red Wing forwards. Period. You claim I am unintelligent, yet you're the swift thinker who makes claims while admitting you don't have the stats to back you up, while at the same time attempting to downplay the most significant measure of any professional sports player - raw numbers. I don't know if you tell yourself these things to feel better, or if you truly believe you are correct - either way I feel bad for you.

Flip gets average, if not a little above average ice time per game in terms of forwards on the Red Wings. You can't deny this, you can keep trying to downplay the facts such as this, as well as the people who cite them in making argument as "useless stats", or "stat sheet boys", but in reality - they speak louder then any ludicrous statement claiming Flip is the 4th best forward on the Red Wings (two way, or offensively - it doesn't matter.)

You want to talk about the small things that goes into a players worth - fine, let go ahead and do that:

* Fillipula is 4th out of 4 Red Wing centers in % of face offs won. Flip's FO% won is 51.1% (42nd among NHL centers). The other Red Wings centers have a higher % of face offs won. Draper (61.2%), Datsyuk (57.2%) and Zetterberg (54.4%).

* Fillipula is 5th among Red Wing forwards in even strength ice time per game at 13:36. Zetterberg (14:33), Franzen (14:14), Datsyuk (14:02), Hossa (13:57) are the four forwards who receive more even strength ice time per game then Flip.

* Fillipula is 5th among Red Wing forwards in terms of Short Handed Time on Ice/per game at 1:46. Draper (2:12), Cleary (2:04), Zetterberg (1:54) and Datsyuk (1:48) all see more time on the penalty kill per game then Fillipula.

* Fillipula is 12th among Red Wings forwards in total hits this year with 24. Kopecky (84), Draper (80), Franzen (70), Cleary (68), Samuelsson (62), Hossa (58), Datsyuk (56), Zetterberg (44), Holmstrom (39), Maltby (36) and Helm (29) all are ahead of Flip in total hits on the year.

* Fillipula is tied in 7th among Red Wing forwards in blocked shots with 14 total blocked shots on the year. Datsyuk (23), Zetterberg (22), Cleary (21), Franzen (16), Maltby and Sammy with 15 a piece and Draper (his 7th place counterpart) has 14.

* Fillipula is tied in 6th place amond Red Wing forwards in total takeaways with 13 on the year. He shares 6th place with Draper and Franzen who also have 13. Datsyuk (66), Hossa (35), Zetterberg (29), Samuelsson (17) and Maltby (14) all sit above Flip.

* I will reiterate - Fillipula is 12th among Red Wing forwards in shooting percentage with S% of 7.3. Leino (25.0), Holmstrom (23.7), Hudler (17.6), McCarty (16.7), Datsyuk (14.9), Franzen (14.7), Hossa (13.5), Maltby (11.1), Zetterberg (9.9), Samuelsson (9.5) and Cleary (9.1) are all higher then Flip.

* One category Flip cracks the top three among Red Wings forwards is in total Penalty minutes - he has 32 PIM on the year. The only forwards with more PIM then Flip are Hossa (40) and Samuelsson (36).

So, I think this should be sufficient enough to disprove, at the least, the notion you put forward claiming Flip as being the 4th best forward (two way or one way, it doesn't really matter with this much stacked against him) on the team.

Feel free to scoff statistics and those who use them. Not only will you continue to look silly, but you will sound more and more like one of those lunatics who refuses to believe in the theory of evolution, and simply disregards all the science and experts who say otherwise.

But - if this stat thing is so easy (I believe you summed it up as being able to use Google) then you shouldn't have a problem finding statistics to prove your point - correct?

[Reds4Life 51]

Filppula is a wreck offensively -- and offense just can not be taught -- while defense can.

There is a better chance that Hudler becomes as good as Filppula defensively, than the chance Filppula becomes even remotely as talented offensively as Hudler.

He completely misses the net half the time he shoots... so much so that I am actually kind of suprised his shot % is so low.

Frankly, given his linemates and his minutes over the past two years, it is amazing his points are still low.

He was consistently on the second line last year and received ample power play time. He was getting 17 minutes a game and 1:50 in PP time. Despite that, he was outscored by:

Cleary (42 - 36) who played in 15 less games than Val, playing more of a checking role and w/ worse linemates.

Hudler (42 - 36) who played 4 minutes less per game and with much worse linemates.

Holmstrom (40 - 36) who played in 19 less games.

Samuelsson (40 - 36) who played in 5 less games.

Franzen (38 - 36) who played in 6 less games and also played more of a checking role than Val last year.

Filppula is more of an upgraded Draper than he is a downgraded Datsyuk or Zetterberg. He looks lost in the offensive zone; his shot is poor and he is not much of a playmaker. And that has not improved since last year.

From the moment players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hudler and to a lesser degree, Leino, stepped onto the ice, you saw their offensive potential. I have never seen that with Filppula.

He has improved defensively. Cleary and Franzen both received a lot more PK time than him last year and while Cleary still gets more PK time this year, Franzen has been used more on the PP. Amongst forwards on the team defensively, I rank him solidly in the second group (after Datsyuk and Zetterberg) which includes Cleary, Hossa, Filppula, Draper and Franzen -- the order of which fluctuates on a game-to-game basis. Point being, he is hardly unique among this team as far as responsible two-way play.

I would be pretty disgusted if Holland lets Hudler go in favor of Filppula -- Jiri has done nothing but improve offensively, defensively as well as physically and proved every naysayer wrong every step of the way. I am not sure if there is a player on the team who plays with more heart and passion on a consistent basis... and his progression is showing no hiccups. He looked outstanding with Hossa on the second line the other day. Hudler is just that unique of a player, while a speedy, defensively responsible guy like Filppula is a lot easier to replace.

I am now flip-flopping on Franzen or Filppula. I am just getting tired of Franzen's injuries, as he is no help to the team when he is sitting out. This year started out strong for him, and he was scoring goals at a similar pace to Hossa, as well as backchecking hard -- but that faded very quickly. Maybe he has been nursing an injury and this is an excuse to get him 100%, but for the last half of the season he has been underwhelming. At this point, if he is asking for more money than Filppula, I would probably be fine keeping Filppula. If Franzen comes back and we see the same lackluster play from him, I am more than fine if he walks at the end of the year -- as both Filppula and Hudler have been putting in a much better effort.

Final point -- If Franzen and Hudler happened to have become free agents before Filppula, and were both signed -- I bet there would be very few posters here talking about trading Franzen and Hudler so Filppula could stay.

100% agree.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Reds4Life

[Guest MrSandMan]

So now you're a misogynist, too? Thats not cool, dude.

No, I'm just trying to understand the mentality of people who make hundreds of posts-per-day on a random message forum trashing a team that they say they like.

Negative reinforcement, perhaps... Or just a miserable quality of life?

I suspect the latter.

[FinRedWing 172]

Val's a slow starter,always has been and unfortunately always will.

Last season was no different,I think somewhere in December he had 9 points.

He was bad in the first round against the Preds,but he picked it up and was excellent all the way to the Finals.

Here's hoping he'll show that fighting spirit of his again in the playoffs.

The guy who, until paired with Mr. Do-It-Myself Marian Hossa, was on pace for a breakthrough season of...36 points, despite his 3rd line teammates continuing to produce without a 100 point man on their line.

Don't be angry if he finally gets some points with Hossa.

The more points our forwards score,the more games we win.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Nice job owning him. If I had the time or patience i'd actually draw up numbers. But watch he'll call you "Uneducated" and make up stats to prove his point.

. . .

Yeah thought so, your point is invalid.

Honestly, can we start a pro ban movement for these 2. None of them have ever produced anything remotley close to an arguement and in general are just asses.

Says the guy with the Val signature...

He dosen't have anything agaisnt Val, he's just not on his knees sucking him off like you.

[ben_usmc 253]

Filppula is a wreck offensively -- and offense just can not be taught -- while defense can.

There is a better chance that Hudler becomes as good as Filppula defensively, than the chance Filppula becomes even remotely as talented offensively as Hudler.

He completely misses the net half the time he shoots... so much so that I am actually kind of suprised his shot % is so low.

Frankly, given his linemates and his minutes over the past two years, it is amazing his points are still low.

He was consistently on the second line last year and received ample power play time. He was getting 17 minutes a game and 1:50 in PP time. Despite that, he was outscored by:

Cleary (42 - 36) who played in 15 less games than Val, playing more of a checking role and w/ worse linemates.

Hudler (42 - 36) who played 4 minutes less per game and with much worse linemates.

Holmstrom (40 - 36) who played in 19 less games.

Samuelsson (40 - 36) who played in 5 less games.

Franzen (38 - 36) who played in 6 less games and also played more of a checking role than Val last year.

Filppula is more of an upgraded Draper than he is a downgraded Datsyuk or Zetterberg. He looks lost in the offensive zone; his shot is poor and he is not much of a playmaker. And that has not improved since last year.

From the moment players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hudler and to a lesser degree, Leino, stepped onto the ice, you saw their offensive potential. I have never seen that with Filppula.

He has improved defensively. Cleary and Franzen both received a lot more PK time than him last year and while Cleary still gets more PK time this year, Franzen has been used more on the PP. Amongst forwards on the team defensively, I rank him solidly in the second group (after Datsyuk and Zetterberg) which includes Cleary, Hossa, Filppula, Draper and Franzen -- the order of which fluctuates on a game-to-game basis. Point being, he is hardly unique among this team as far as responsible two-way play.

I would be pretty disgusted if Holland lets Hudler go in favor of Filppula -- Jiri has done nothing but improve offensively, defensively as well as physically and proved every naysayer wrong every step of the way. I am not sure if there is a player on the team who plays with more heart and passion on a consistent basis... and his progression is showing no hiccups. He looked outstanding with Hossa on the second line the other day. Hudler is just that unique of a player, while a speedy, defensively responsible guy like Filppula is a lot easier to replace.

I am now flip-flopping on Franzen or Filppula. I am just getting tired of Franzen's injuries, as he is no help to the team when he is sitting out. This year started out strong for him, and he was scoring goals at a similar pace to Hossa, as well as backchecking hard -- but that faded very quickly. Maybe he has been nursing an injury and this is an excuse to get him 100%, but for the last half of the season he has been underwhelming. At this point, if he is asking for more money than Filppula, I would probably be fine keeping Filppula. If Franzen comes back and we see the same lackluster play from him, I am more than fine if he walks at the end of the year -- as both Filppula and Hudler have been putting in a much better effort.

Final point -- If Franzen and Hudler happened to have become free agents before Filppula, and were both signed -- I bet there would be very few posters here talking about trading Franzen and Hudler so Filppula could stay.

Thank you I agree, just because we are potential over paying for one player (flip) in peoples opinions that doesn't mean we should over pay for 2 (Mule). If he wants anymore then .5 over Flip let him walk, he is in his prime while, Hudler nor Flip are in theres. I'm telling you if he is on another team you will see another Lapointe situation;maybe not AS bad but still.

[redwing_sparty 0]

by no means do i hate flip. i think he's a decent player and honestly he sorta got the shaft this year. he thought he would be playing on the second line and then we picked up hossa. but thats life with the red wings.

the excuse about playing against other teams top lines is crap. dats, z, hossa, homer all play against top line and manage to rack up the points.

i like flip but i dont know that he's all that useful to this team if we sign hossa and franzen. if u cant sign one of them by all means keep him and give him his chance on the second line. but serioulsy do u want to pay 3 mil for a 3rd liner when u have leino, helm, and abdalkader waiting? flips fine but he's worth more on the trading block.

[Datsyerberger 279]

You want to talk about the small things that goes into a players worth - fine, let go ahead and do that:

* Fillipula is 4th out of 4 Red Wing centers in % of face offs won. Flip's FO% won is 51.1% (42nd among NHL centers). The other Red Wings centers have a higher % of face offs won. Draper (61.2%), Datsyuk (57.2%) and Zetterberg (54.4%).

* Fillipula is 5th among Red Wing forwards in even strength ice time per game at 13:36. Zetterberg (14:33), Franzen (14:14), Datsyuk (14:02), Hossa (13:57) are the four forwards who receive more even strength ice time per game then Flip.

* Fillipula is 5th among Red Wing forwards in terms of Short Handed Time on Ice/per game at 1:46. Draper (2:12), Cleary (2:04), Zetterberg (1:54) and Datsyuk (1:48) all see more time on the penalty kill per game then Fillipula.

* Fillipula is 12th among Red Wings forwards in total hits this year with 24. Kopecky (84), Draper (80), Franzen (70), Cleary (68), Samuelsson (62), Hossa (58), Datsyuk (56), Zetterberg (44), Holmstrom (39), Maltby (36) and Helm (29) all are ahead of Flip in total hits on the year.

* Fillipula is tied in 7th among Red Wing forwards in blocked shots with 14 total blocked shots on the year. Datsyuk (23), Zetterberg (22), Cleary (21), Franzen (16), Maltby and Sammy with 15 a piece and Draper (his 7th place counterpart) has 14.

* Fillipula is tied in 6th place amond Red Wing forwards in total takeaways with 13 on the year. He shares 6th place with Draper and Franzen who also have 13. Datsyuk (66), Hossa (35), Zetterberg (29), Samuelsson (17) and Maltby (14) all sit above Flip.

* I will reiterate - Fillipula is 12th among Red Wing forwards in shooting percentage with S% of 7.3. Leino (25.0), Holmstrom (23.7), Hudler (17.6), McCarty (16.7), Datsyuk (14.9), Franzen (14.7), Hossa (13.5), Maltby (11.1), Zetterberg (9.9), Samuelsson (9.5) and Cleary (9.1) are all higher then Flip.

* One category Flip cracks the top three among Red Wings forwards is in total Penalty minutes - he has 32 PIM on the year. The only forwards with more PIM then Flip are Hossa (40) and Samuelsson (36). -- Forwards who have had more ice time this season than Flip: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Cleary (could be wrong about Cleary). Oh noes, he takes more penalties than Datsyuk with high ice time. Gee, only the rest of the league does. His PIM:ice time ratio is pretty close to Hossa's. On another note, this shows that Cleary is very good at resisting penalties despite doing a lot of the tough work.

Strangely enough, those stats actually make a good argument for Flip being our #4 or #5 forward. Main thing he needs to improve is his physicality.

One note:

* One category Flip cracks the top three among Red Wings forwards is in total Penalty minutes - he has 32 PIM on the year. The only forwards with more PIM then Flip are Hossa (40) and Samuelsson (36). -- Forwards who have had more ice time this season than Flip: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Cleary (could be wrong about Cleary). Oh noes, he takes more penalties than Datsyuk with high ice time. Gee, only the rest of the league does. His PIM:ice time ratio is pretty close to Hossa's. On another note, this shows that Cleary is very good at resisting penalties despite doing a lot of the tough work.

[Mors 201]

There are 8 other forwards on the team with more points than Filppula, and he's not leading in any other categories either. I don't see why this debate is still raging. He is NOT the 4th best forward by any stretch of the imagination.

[Guest Shoreline]

I recall characters like Steve Yzerman at the end of his career making 6 and 8 million per season despite having 40-60 pt seasons, which surely some of the people arguing about points per game should suggest he ain't worth it. But considering a player's contributions don't have to be in points (which was never the reason Flip was sold on staying on the team instead of being placed down in GR again), I swear some people are barking up the wrong tree.

Personally I dunno why we're saying who is better than who. He is part of the reason this team won the cup last year. Who gives a flying f*** who he is better than on the team as long as he puts out an effort every game and contributes in more ways than one. The way the salary cap system is set up is contracts are a yearly basis, not entirely contributions as they can't solely be measured by points alone. Plus, this team could not afford, with or without a cap, a roster entirely comprised of Hossa's, Datsyuk's, and Zetterberg's.

This Flip bashing is ******* retarded.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

I thought it was more like this:

[Frozen-Man 144]

I thought it was more like this:

:hysterical: :hysterical:

NICE ONE - and sadly so true

edit: And thanks I needed this in another thread

Edited February 17, 2009 by Frozen-Man