Retire #'s 18,25,33,96

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

i hope ur kidding, relax

Don't cry. It wasn't my intention to distress you, but if I did I don't really care, I just viewed your comparison as ridiculous and said so. The emotional reaction you want to have to that is your choice.

[Opie 308]

I'm basing this post on reading the title of the thread only, so pardon my ignorance for points that might have already been made in the 4 pages of replies (seriously, what is there to discuss here?)

I'm being 100% honest here when I say "I think I have just as good of a chance at getting my number sent to the rafters as any of the players mentioned"

And I am being 100% honest when I say this:

You are 100% correct!

Grindline and Homer have been fan favorites, people have adored them as wings, mainly because they stayed wings. Even when Mac left it was a different Mac, he was sober, broke, and destitute, much like the Mac we have now. Mac is a different person and player than the first 3 cups, and was not a pivotal piece of the 4th (I think I saw that posted or I misread that he was pivotal in cups 2 and 4, maybe it was meant to be Ozzie and I misread it).

If Maltby were on the Avs or Flames these past 2 years everyone on here would be talking about how smart Kenny was not signing him, instead we are talking about retiring his number.

Draper, if face off % and PK gets you in the rafters then DAMN that is taking role players to another stratosphere.

And I think that is my point here, these guys were/are role players. They do their job and do it damn well, but as another poster wrote you retire people's numbers because you have 100% faith that no one could ever wear that number and do it justice again. 19 is the perfect example because we were all old enough to remember that.

IF anyone even Joe Thornton or The next Great one in the draft came into the locker room they would not even think to ask for 19, not because the team thinks it is sacred, but because they know it is sacred.

Another great post to think about was the post that said if you have to defend (or debate) the person's number being retired than it shouldn't be retired. It is the Jim Rice in the Hall of fame argument. He is in now so my point here is moot, but even as a Red Sox fan I didn't think he was hall worthy, why because you had to defend choosing him.

Retiring Lids number is, as someone else said, a no brainer.

Lids retires, the very next home game that has meaning (O6 matchup, Avs game some game with historical significance) and his number is up in the rafters.

You could make a case that Dats or Z could be next, but you would be arguing for it again, maybe one day people will say, 51 without a doubt belongs in the rafters, but as of today he has as much chance as 13, 40. While they are great players and have won individual awards, they have yet to attain the level of greatness that 9, 19 and others. EDIT: Not saying he has attained the same status in the game, just trying to make the point that 13, 40 while great are not Jersey in the rafters worthy yet.

Osgood I have a hard time with and have said it in the numerous Ozzie is an HOFer threads. It is hard to argue with his career numbers and if he overtakes a few more names, then sure, but as for now, right here right now if he retired tomorrow I am a NO. Certain milestones, like wins, could change my mind. I am on the fence with Ozzie and in my mind that makes my answer a no.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Opie

[Z is next captain! 0]

I think that's too many, but maybe "unofficially" retiring them, like #6?

Agreed, Not retiring them but they could be taken out of circulation for a while.

They next numbers that should be retired are obvious: #5, #13 and #40

#30 should be reitired because I believe Ozzy has done more than alot of people who r in the HOF and for the most part he has done it within the same organization, That being said, the next 2 should be #5 and #30

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I'lll be happy if these guys just retire - exception to Homer, of course.

[eva unit zero 271]

91 will never hang in the rafters( unless we draft a new Yzerman or Lidstrom), it's not only about points.

18,25,33,96 <--although we love all these guys and thier contributions, these numbers will also never hang in the rafters. They will be remembered in some other way but not the rafters.

The only other number I see going up is #5

I think that no.16 should be up there as well. (i know it won't happen)

Here are some other numbers that need to be recognized. 8,30,39 13,40, 14, and many more.

Thats what happens with a great team every man is important.

No player has ever been even considered for having his jersey retired in Detroit without starting his career in Detroit. This eliminates:

From your list:

#8 Syd Howe

#14 Brendan Shanahan

#39 Dominik Hasek

From the OP's list:

#18 Kirk Maltby

#33 Kris Draper

Edited February 16, 2009 by eva unit zero

[lets go pavel 2]

No player has ever been even considered for having his jersey retired in Detroit without starting his career in Detroit. This eliminates:

From your list:

#8 Syd Howe

#14 Brendan Shanahan

#39 Dominik Hasek

From the OP's list:

#18 Kirk Maltby

#33 Kris Draper

How do you know this?

[eva unit zero 271]

A note for everyone on this topic;

Chris Osgood, by the time he retires, will be the franchise leader in every significant goaltending statistic. He already is the leader or is almost the leader when it comes to playoff statistics. Arguing that Osgood doesn't/won't deserve to have his number retired is absolutely ridiculous when you consider that the ONLY goaltender who has compared to him in terms of Red Wings career has his number retired, and Osgood has a few years left to put up some more numbers.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Would be cool if Ozzie got his number retired. Hey, why not do it right now? Like at the next home-game?

[Ms_Hockey 0]

It would be nice to retire all of their numbers - but not very realistic.

If I had to pick someone on the team (other than Lids) to retire, I'd pick Homer. The guy has given his heart to this team, and he's paid for it in facewashings and hernia surgeries. However, Homer is the best guy in the league at what he does.

If I had to pick one, I'd pick Homer.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Ms_Hockey

[Ms_Hockey 0]

A note for everyone on this topic;

Chris Osgood, by the time he retires, will be the franchise leader in every significant goaltending statistic. He already is the leader or is almost the leader when it comes to playoff statistics. Arguing that Osgood doesn't/won't deserve to have his number retired is absolutely ridiculous when you consider that the ONLY goaltender who has compared to him in terms of Red Wings career has his number retired, and Osgood has a few years left to put up some more numbers.

The only reason I didn't put him on my list is because I really do think his number WILL be retired. Osgood isn't a GREAT goalie, but he's only two wins away from tying Terry Sawchuk's record. And you're right - he'll be the leader in the statistics. He's already got the highest win percentage of any goalie in the NHL.

Mark my words, his number is going to be retired.

[eva unit zero 271]

How do you know this?

I am not aware of a great player in the history of the Red Wings who began his career elsewhere who has been considered for jersey retirement. Given that most jersey retirement has happened recently, this would mean league-elite players like Syd Howe, Harry Lumley, and Normie Smith would have had their jerseys retired in the 90s when Sawchuk, etc. were retired. Except those players didn't begin their NHL careers with Detroit, despite playing almost their entire NHL careers with Detroit as star players on the team and in the league. Further evidence is that players who played well enough for the Wings to potentially earn retirement who didn't begin their careers in Detroit have seen their numbers given away (Shanahan), while players who began their career with Detroit and played well enough to perhaps argue for jersey retirement at some point have seen their jersey numbers set aside (Osgood) which indicates that the organization considers beginning your career with Detroit a requirement for jersey retirement.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I am not aware of a great player in the history of the Red Wings who began his career elsewhere who has been considered for jersey retirement. Given that most jersey retirement has happened recently, this would mean league-elite players like Syd Howe, Harry Lumley, and Normie Smith would have had their jerseys retired in the 90s when Sawchuk, etc. were retired. Except those players didn't begin their NHL careers with Detroit, despite playing almost their entire NHL careers with Detroit as star players on the team and in the league. Further evidence is that players who played well enough for the Wings to potentially earn retirement who didn't begin their careers in Detroit have seen their numbers given away (Shanahan), while players who began their career with Detroit and played well enough to perhaps argue for jersey retirement at some point have seen their jersey numbers set aside (Osgood) which indicates that the organization considers beginning your career with Detroit a requirement for jersey retirement.

It's strange seeing a different font from you

[lets go pavel 2]

I am not aware of a great player in the history of the Red Wings who began his career elsewhere who has been considered for jersey retirement. Given that most jersey retirement has happened recently, this would mean league-elite players like Syd Howe, Harry Lumley, and Normie Smith would have had their jerseys retired in the 90s when Sawchuk, etc. were retired. Except those players didn't begin their NHL careers with Detroit, despite playing almost their entire NHL careers with Detroit as star players on the team and in the league. Further evidence is that players who played well enough for the Wings to potentially earn retirement who didn't begin their careers in Detroit have seen their numbers given away (Shanahan), while players who began their career with Detroit and played well enough to perhaps argue for jersey retirement at some point have seen their jersey numbers set aside (Osgood) which indicates that the organization considers beginning your career with Detroit a requirement for jersey retirement.

How do you know those players weren't considered, and the organization just didn't deem them worthy enough? Just because there's a pattern doesn't mean there's a rule. The six whose numbers are hanging are also all Canadian ... does this mean Lidstrom is out of luck? Make no mistake, I don't believe Draper's number has any business hanging from the rafters, but it's not because he played his first 20 games in a different uniform.

[LeftWinger 5,131]

A note for everyone on this topic;

Chris Osgood, by the time he retires, will be the franchise leader in every significant goaltending statistic. He already is the leader or is almost the leader when it comes to playoff statistics. Arguing that Osgood doesn't/won't deserve to have his number retired is absolutely ridiculous when you consider that the ONLY goaltender who has compared to him in terms of Red Wings career has his number retired, and Osgood has a few years left to put up some more numbers.

AMEN!

To go along with the OP's suggestion, of ALL those numbers, may, MAYBE the only that has a VERY slim chance is #96. But I very much doubt it. If, as the OP stated, they win another Cup in the next 2 years, or even three-peat, #30 could and should be up there after #5 goes up. I still hold a thread (although him not coming here at the deadline or singing as a F/A hurt him) I hold a thread out there for Sergei. He has the stats, he will go in the Hall, but yeah, the Wings are a franchise that honors the players that start and stay with them. As much as I think #91 deserves to be up there, it probably won't. So, #18, NO. #33, NO. #25 HEEEEELLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOO! #96 slim possiblity, #30 has a better chance than that (another Cup should guarantee it (along with 400 wins.)) #5, no brainer.

[lets go pavel 2]

AMEN!

To go along with the OP's suggestion, of ALL those numbers, may, MAYBE the only that has a VERY slim chance is #96. But I very much doubt it. If, as the OP stated, they win another Cup in the next 2 years, or even three-peat, #30 could and should be up there after #5 goes up. I still hold a thread (although him not coming here at the deadline or singing as a F/A hurt him) I hold a thread out there for Sergei. He has the stats, he will go in the Hall, but yeah, the Wings are a franchise that honors the players that start and stay with them. As much as I think #91 deserves to be up there, it probably won't. So, #18, NO. #33, NO. #25 HEEEEELLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOO! #96 slim possiblity, #30 has a better chance than that (another Cup should guarantee it (along with 400 wins.)) #5, no brainer.

Lindsay, Sawchuck, and Abel all played for teams other than the Red Wings, and so did Howe if you count his later years.

[LeftWinger 5,131]

Lindsay, Sawchuck, and Abel all played for teams other than the Red Wings, and so did Howe if you count his later years.

you are right, but these players came back and became HUGE parts of the franchise even after they retired. Of course things were different back then too. I guess maybe 33 has a slim (albeit slimmer than 96) chance to get there, but where would it stop? you put 33 up, then 91 has to go.

[egroen 384]

you are right, but these players came back and became HUGE parts of the franchise even after they retired.

Obviously Sawchuk did not.

Edited February 17, 2009 by egroen

[lets go pavel 2]

you are right, but these players came back and became HUGE parts of the franchise even after they retired. Of course things were different back then too. I guess maybe 33 has a slim (albeit slimmer than 96) chance to get there, but where would it stop? you put 33 up, then 91 has to go.

I don't think any of them get up there. 91 has an outside chance, but I just don't think he was ever seen as "the heart of the Red Wings" like Yzerman was, and I think that makes a difference. 5 is next, and in ten years we can talk about 40 and 13 ...

[crabcakes'n'redwings 4]

No to putting them in the rafters, but a grindline statue or something would rock.

that would be an amazing statue!!

[LeftWinger 5,131]

that would be an amazing statue!!

would that statue include Joey Kocur and Martin LaPointe? They were both on Drapes and malts line BEFORE McWaste-of-capspace was.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Only guarantee right now... #5.

[Reds4Life 51]

A note for everyone on this topic;

Chris Osgood, by the time he retires, will be the franchise leader in every significant goaltending statistic. He already is the leader or is almost the leader when it comes to playoff statistics. Arguing that Osgood doesn't/won't deserve to have his number retired is absolutely ridiculous when you consider that the ONLY goaltender who has compared to him in terms of Red Wings career has his number retired, and Osgood has a few years left to put up some more numbers.

So what? Osgood has never been elite goalie. Never. Being good for long time does not guarantee HoF membership not to mention jersey retirement. He does not deserve either honour.

And you can't be serious comparing Osgood to Sawchuk. It's not even funny.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Reds4Life

[Lazerbeam 13]

Dam--I KNEW IT!! I guessed correct, the Osgood worshipers would soil this thread by stating Osgoods number be retired---YOUR CRAZY!! this proves what I said back in the "Osgood? " thread, YOU ARE OSGOOD WORSHIPERS!! not true Red Wings fans, you just root for individual players not the team!

Edited February 17, 2009 by Lazerbeam

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

So what? Osgood has never been elite goalie. Never. Being good for long time does not guarantee HoF membership not to mention jersey retirement. He does not deserve either honour.

And you can't be serious comparing Osgood to Sawchuk. It's not even funny.

Ozzie's been great! He came back to us and stole a cup for us when anyone who's honest was getting very, very nervous about the Dominator who was showing serious decline at that point. But the rafters? I totally agree, no. You don't put every player who's good for us up there, even ones who are good for us a long time. You put guys like Y and Lids up there. Maybe someday Z or Datusk make it. Federov could have been but chose not to by trying to leave every time his contract was up and then taking less money to do so after saying our 10 mil offer was an insult to his manhood. The great Wings take less to stay, not less to leave.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

You think #5 will go as fast as Yzerman's did?