Howard Recalled; Osgood told to "re-focus"

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

This is a classier move than what management have been trying in Toronto; first Burke calls out Toskala in the media, for not being the goalie they were hoping for, then Wilson says Pogge might not have "what it takes". The motivation they are trying with Osgood and the chance for him to be able to work on what's wrong, is a lot better than public ridicule and, for this, I applaude the DRW management.

[boomer 0]

Are you seriously suggesting we trade Holmstrom now? Come on, you don't trade important parts of your team just because they're getting older and their value is soon to be dropping. Who's next, Lidstrom?

Look I think highly of Holmstom and surely people around the league still do, sometimes you have to be pragmatic in these matters .Your telling me that if we couldn't secure a hard hitting stay at home defenseman or guality goalie in some kind of multiple player deal that would't benefit the team for the playoff run. Then why sign Franzen also to a long term deal? Is there anyone on this team that's not untouchable?

[Guest Shoreline]

Look I think highly of Holmstom and surely people around the league still do, sometimes you have to be pragmatic in these matters .Your telling me that if we couldn't secure a hard hitting stay at home defenseman or guality goalie in some kind of multiple player deal that would't benefit the team for the playoff run. Then why sign Franzen also to a long term deal? Is there anyone on this team that's not untouchable?

This team just won the cup. Versus a team that was last place, yes, almost everyone is untouchable. This team is also battling for yet another Presidents trophy. Maybe other teams have a revolving door philosophy, but the Red Wings value their players, and obviously so do the fans. I agree that players not doing their job need to go, but not as knee-jerk as you are proposing.

[boomer 0]

The Red Wings have demonstrated their loyalty to their players for many years now, and players have returned the favor. We're not trading Ozzie. Or Maltby. Or Homer.

I'm sorry but that's not how things work in the era of salary caps and clauses and free agency. If so we wouldn't have gotten Stuart when we needed too or Hossa now or Larry Murphy or Dino Ciccerelli blah blah blah. Come on you don't want a Cup again! You gotta do what you gotta do. And this loyalty thing ,then Vernon should have gotten the money he deserved when he helped us get the Cup fighting Roy and Colorado. Oh we had a cheaper alternative in the Wings with Osgood. Ya that was real loyalty. And prospects gone in a flash- Knuble, Aaron Ward, Kyle Quincey....

[boomer 0]

This team just won the cup. Versus a team that was last place, yes, almost everyone is untouchable. This team is also battling for yet another Presidents trophy. Maybe other teams have a revolving door philosophy, but the Red Wings value their players, and obviously so do the fans. I agree that players not doing their job need to go, but not as knee-jerk as you are proposing.

Hey I don't believe in a knee jerk just for the hell of it. If there was no Franzen or Cleary around Homer is the Man. But when you got depth as we do it affords us this luxury. I'll ask you a question when Holmstrom was hit by malicious Pronger with his buddy's help in Anaheim how did you feel? I'll tell you it made me sick that we had no one to take to them, and that was the turning point in the series and we were gone. You need all types of components in a team and the circumstances at the time accentuate which one's are imperative. If your goaltending is questionable you have to address it . If your defense lacks grit in taking a hit in the corner to make a play- hey your lacking there too. If somebody can come and take out Hossa without reprisal ya you got weakneeses that can be exploited. There's a lot of areas to cover to me that's why very few are untouchable.

[Guest Shoreline]

Hey I don't believe in a knee jerk just for the hell of it. If there was no Franzen or Cleary around Homer is the Man. But when you got depth as we do it affords us this luxury. I'll ask you a question when Holmstrom was hit by malicious Pronger with his buddy's help in Anaheim how did you feel? I'll tell you it made me sick that we had no one to take to them, and that was the turning point in the series and we were gone. You need all types of components in a team and the circumstances at the time accentuate which one's are imperative. If your goaltending is questionable you have to address it . If your defense lacks grit in taking a hit in the corner to make a play- hey your lacking there too. If somebody can come and take out Hossa without reprisal ya you got weakneeses that can be exploited. There's a lot of areas to cover to me that's why very few are untouchable.

Well, that Homer hit by Pronger firstly resulted in a suspension, and secondly, was in the playoffs. I have mentioned the team does need someone like Downey just in case something happens like this, but thusfar the team has been winning without it and no real injuries have resulted from Chris Pronger-like plays, so I can't argue too vehemently against it until it ends up hurting the team. I don't see how you can argue for that either.

I will mention again though that the revolving door philosophy you partake to results in losing team chemistry which also extends beyond the ice. There's far more to it than that which is why there's a coaching staff and not a single coach alone. I don't quite see how you can criticize the team when they are winning. There needs to be improvements but not nearly as drastic as you suggest.

[Outsider 42]

I'm not really sure where anyone, other than George Sipple, got the impression that the Wings were shutting Oz down for the NEXT 10 days.

Sounds to me like Holland & Co. called up Howard to start tomorrow in Minnesota, plan to leave Ozzie home with J. Bedard, intend to return Howard back to Grand Rapids, (per A. Kahn), after tomorrow's game, and go from there.

That would make "10 days" from the last game Oz played, (against Colorado), until the game against San Jose. Ken Holland stated that this was an opportunity for Chris to have "10 days off", to clear his head. He didn't mention anything about "the next 10 days off".

I could be wrong though....

(God knows.....it wouldn't be the first time....)

[VM1138 1,921]

Not that I want to toot my own horn or anything, but this vindicates me in disagreeing with many people around here who claimed Ozzie was going to play non-stop until he got better. I said no, that's not how it works, he needs time off to clear his head.

Bingo!

Hope it works, Ozzie has always been one of my favorite players. I think it will, though. And we can finally see what Howard can do.

[Outsider 42]

Interestingly, Ted Kulfan at the DetNews just wrote in his post game blurb that Osgood would work on his game, "over the weekend."

[lets go pavel 2]

I'm sorry but that's not how things work in the era of salary caps and clauses and free agency. If so we wouldn't have gotten Stuart when we needed too or Hossa now or Larry Murphy or Dino Ciccerelli blah blah blah. Come on you don't want a Cup again! You gotta do what you gotta do. And this loyalty thing ,then Vernon should have gotten the money he deserved when he helped us get the Cup fighting Roy and Colorado. Oh we had a cheaper alternative in the Wings with Osgood. Ya that was real loyalty. And prospects gone in a flash- Knuble, Aaron Ward, Kyle Quincey....

What the hell are you talking about? Loyalty doesn't meaning never bringing in outside people, and it doesn't mean never trading anyone. It means taking care of players who have been the heart and soul of the organization for years and years ... Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom, etc. You may not like it, but the fact of the matter is it exists. Sometimes the team has to make the tough decision and let someone go, that's true, but for the most part they take care of their own. And prospects are a different matter entirely ...

Not that I want to toot my own horn or anything, but this vindicates me in disagreeing with many people around here who claimed Ozzie was going to play non-stop until he got better. I said no, that's not how it works, he needs time off to clear his head.

Bingo!

Hope it works, Ozzie has always been one of my favorite players. I think it will, though. And we can finally see what Howard can do.

This doesn't vindicate you unless it works. If it does, and Ozzie comes back strong, I'll be happy to pat you on the back, but until then let's hold off on the horn-tooting ...

[boomer 0]

Well, that Homer hit by Pronger firstly resulted in a suspension, and secondly, was in the playoffs. I have mentioned the team does need someone like Downey just in case something happens like this, but thusfar the team has been winning without it and no real injuries have resulted from Chris Pronger-like plays, so I can't argue too vehemently against it until it ends up hurting the team. I don't see how you can argue for that either.

I will mention again though that the revolving door philosophy you partake to results in losing team chemistry which also extends beyond the ice. There's far more to it than that which is why there's a coaching staff and not a single coach alone. I don't quite see how you can criticize the team when they are winning. There needs to be improvements but not nearly as drastic as you suggest.

Yes the team is winning , aqain tonight against the Ducks, your happy I'm happy we all are. But playoffs is diiferent beast. I did not in any way put forward drastic changes, but we need some size on the D and and an enforcer who can skate up front- think Colton Orr. If and when we face the Sharks in a series night in and night out its gonna be a war. Why do you think they got that scum bag Lemieux, and their a physical team all around with good goaltending; and they got a score to settle with us. They see us standing in the way of their shot at the Cup again, and their right we are. Second team to consider in the same light but from the East are the Bruins. If we ever get to the Finals this year its them we could be facing; and their back to playing tough grinding Bruin style hockey. they got size and meaness up front and at the blue line. And they like to indimidate on all levels;Milan Lucic totaled Komisarek of the Canadians and he's not been the same since. And Pronger by the way only got a one game suspension; didn't we lose Homer for two , and we were elimanated by them any way. No I don't like wholesale changes but I don't like being caught off guard either . Let's remember this little interchange and where the team is at if and when should we ever face these said rivals in the playoffs.

[boomer 0]

What the hell are you talking about? Loyalty doesn't meaning never bringing in outside people, and it doesn't mean never trading anyone. It means taking care of players who have been the heart and soul of the organization for years and years ... Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom, etc. You may not like it, but the fact of the matter is it exists. Sometimes the team has to make the tough decision and let someone go, that's true, but for the most part they take care of their own. And prospects are a different matter entirely ...

This doesn't vindicate you unless it works. If it does, and Ozzie comes back strong, I'll be happy to pat you on the back, but until then let's hold off on the horn-tooting ...

What the hell am I talking about; what do you think the Wings are a charitable foundation, these players who I admire also have been very fortunate to have such a run in their careers, and I'm sure most of them would tell you that. With your logic the team would end up stacked with players in theie late 30's with their good legs behind them,sorry you can't have a team composed soley on the merits of the past when the present places certain demands. I'm all for having veterans in the mix if they are the one's you need , but not because hey we owe it to them that we keep them. Why shouldn't other teams benefit from a Holmstrom for example if we can acquire somebody in exchange that will bolster us in areas that are lacking. The art of trading is part of the game and its exciting also. When Brad Park rival to Bobby Orr became a Bruin and Phil Esposito went to the Rangers just shows you teams make moves that they esteem to be in their interest. And both these players hated the teams they were being sent too, they had been bitter rivals for years. But it happened despite how Park had been a great Ranger or Espo a great Bruin. And it was a beauty to see Park on the same blue line with Orr.

[Jocu 0]

Ozzy should head back to Bandits for his little vacation, rework his game ... again.

[TheOwl 77]

Give Howard the start against LA. Hopefully Conklin can handle playing last night, tomor, and in San Jose next Wednesday.

[lets go pavel 2]

What the hell am I talking about; what do you think the Wings are a charitable foundation, these players who I admire also have been very fortunate to have such a run in their careers, and I'm sure most of them would tell you that. With your logic the team would end up stacked with players in theie late 30's with their good legs behind them,sorry you can't have a team composed soley on the merits of the past when the present places certain demands. I'm all for having veterans in the mix if they are the one's you need , but not because hey we owe it to them that we keep them. Why shouldn't other teams benefit from a Holmstrom for example if we can acquire somebody in exchange that will bolster us in areas that are lacking. The art of trading is part of the game and its exciting also. When Brad Park rival to Bobby Orr became a Bruin and Phil Esposito went to the Rangers just shows you teams make moves that they esteem to be in their interest. And both these players hated the teams they were being sent too, they had been bitter rivals for years. But it happened despite how Park had been a great Ranger or Espo a great Bruin. And it was a beauty to see Park on the same blue line with Orr.

Newsflash, Boomer! The team I described IS the team we have. It's the team we won a Cup with last year. And no, with my logic we don't end up with a team stacked with over-the-hill 30-somethings, we end up with a team that has a solid veteran core, experiance to handle every situtation, and also a good influx of youth and skill.

You keep responding as if I am saying we can't ever trade anyone ... I didn't say this. Loyalty and trading are not mutually exclusive concepts. No team can be loyal to everyone, obviously. Loyalty isn't the sole reason for not trading somebody, either. We are loyal to our players, but this doesn't mean we're ONLY keeping them out of loyalty. A player like Maltby or Draper has more value to us than they ever would to another team - we won't get anything in return. As for Holmstrom, loyalty isn't the reason we aren't going to trade him, it's because he plays on our top line and our top PP unit, he's our main net presence. I'm sure every team in the league would be glad to take him. Can we win without him? Sure, but the same could be said of everyone. That's not a reason to trade people.

The Wings are a loyal organization. They are also a smart organization. They make moves when they need to make them for the good of the team, but they also try to take care of their own. You may not like this philosophy, but you cannot deny that history shows this IS what the Wings do, and it works out pretty well for them.

[Dominator2005 558]

At the moment there is no goaltending controversy in Detroit but there is a battle of the backups.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

I have no need to make things up. You were adamant in the Osgood thread that was canned by the mods that Osgoods mechanics were fine, that he needed to play in more games to finally get things working and that the D was sub-par and that was another reason

Mechanics: YOU said his mechanics were an issue. I asked for the basis of that and you said he sucks. I said that's not proof, goaltending is not JUST mechanics and the coaches hadn't stated it was either so that's not proof. Now you keep coming back with that I was "adamant" his mechanics were fine. Not only was I not adament, I never said they were fine. I just kept pointing out you'd made no case and were supported by no one.

D is subpar: I have never stated this. You repeat it again as fact when not only did I not say that's the issue with Ozzie sucking I NEVER thought it.

Bad bounces: I'm ANNOYED when Ozzie says this. I wish he'd shut up about it.

Playing in more games: You said he needed to be pulled for practice to fix the mechanics issue you couldn't support. I never said PLAY HIM, I said it made SENSE to play him if the coaches didn't see a mechanics issue. My view is and always was if sitting's the answer they will do that. In fact I pointed out they HAVE done that and I AGREED with it.

Go back and show any quote in this lengthy discussion where "I" stated he DOES NOT HAVE a mechanics issue or we NEED TO play him, it's the D's fault, he's getting bad bounces. I only said you had supported nothing. So prove me wrong with quotes as to what you say above. You can't because that's not what I said. Support your arguments by supporting them, not by just saying PROVE ME WRONG!!!!! You just make stuff up, like that I'd blamed the D which I not only didn't but don't think. You also made up the bad bounces, which I not only didn't say but Ozzie annoys the snot out of me when he says it. This is the lame way you argue. You're not even fun to spar with.

Edited February 21, 2009 by NomadFromKazoo

[boomer 0]

Newsflash, Boomer! The team I described IS the team we have. It's the team we won a Cup with last year. And no, with my logic we don't end up with a team stacked with over-the-hill 30-somethings, we end up with a team that has a solid veteran core, experiance to handle every situtation, and also a good influx of youth and skill.

You keep responding as if I am saying we can't ever trade anyone ... I didn't say this. Loyalty and trading are not mutually exclusive concepts. No team can be loyal to everyone, obviously. Loyalty isn't the sole reason for not trading somebody, either. We are loyal to our players, but this doesn't mean we're ONLY keeping them out of loyalty. A player like Maltby or Draper has more value to us than they ever would to another team - we won't get anything in return. As for Holmstrom, loyalty isn't the reason we aren't going to trade him, it's because he plays on our top line and our top PP unit, he's our main net presence. I'm sure every team in the league would be glad to take him. Can we win without him? Sure, but the same could be said of everyone. That's not a reason to trade people.

The Wings are a loyal organization. They are also a smart organization. They make moves when they need to make them for the good of the team, but they also try to take care of their own. You may not like this philosophy, but you cannot deny that history shows this IS what the Wings do, and it works out pretty well for them.

I get your main points and I don't necessarily dissagree with the gist of them. However it doesn't remove any possibilty of trading someone like Holmstom despite his attributes, that's what makes him attractive. Not to sound callous the power play is fine without him; we have depth up front. I'm using him as an example of a player we could move if of course if we were getting a quality aquisition that could bolster our play off run. Example our D could use a good stay at home hitting type. We have plenty of offense I woudn't say the same about our defense condidering the age of our veteran core. Believe it, it will be war against the Sharks this year, and if we are ever to get to the finals possibly against the Bruins that wiil also be hard fought. Let's face it we got it last year things fell nicely into place for us, including playing an inexperieced Penguin team that lacked depth; this year is a whole other ball of wax. And were not even talking about the goaltending factor that's still up[ in the air! I like to keep our options open as the deadline looms.

[Guest Shoreline]

Yes the team is winning , aqain tonight against the Ducks, your happy I'm happy we all are. But playoffs is diiferent beast. I did not in any way put forward drastic changes, but we need some size on the D and and an enforcer who can skate up front- think Colton Orr. If and when we face the Sharks in a series night in and night out its gonna be a war. Why do you think they got that scum bag Lemieux, and their a physical team all around with good goaltending; and they got a score to settle with us. They see us standing in the way of their shot at the Cup again, and their right we are. Second team to consider in the same light but from the East are the Bruins. If we ever get to the Finals this year its them we could be facing; and their back to playing tough grinding Bruin style hockey. they got size and meaness up front and at the blue line. And they like to indimidate on all levels;Milan Lucic totaled Komisarek of the Canadians and he's not been the same since. And Pronger by the way only got a one game suspension; didn't we lose Homer for two , and we were elimanated by them any way. No I don't like wholesale changes but I don't like being caught off guard either . Let's remember this little interchange and where the team is at if and when should we ever face these said rivals in the playoffs.

Question -- what use would it have been having Downey in that situation? Holmstrom would have still been hurt. Pronger would have still been suspended one game. Enforcers have proven to be useful for the Wings in recent years during the season, not so much in the playoffs. In regards to your analogy about other teams, well, those are other teams. They didn't just win the cup.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Listen the loyalty system is a myth in Detroit,,one the greatest goaltenders in Detroit history, or hockey history was shipped out of this town after winning succesive Cups. His name Sawchuk dumped to last place Boston Bruins in those days. And Sawchuk would have given his left arm for this organization. Players were mere props they even had to pay their own moving exspenses. Todays stars compared to that era are treated like Queens in the buisness of hockey. With Salary caps free agency there is a modicum of loyaty that exists nowadays. So be it trade trade trade the assets that can, yield new possibilties for the Cup, resting on past laurels get you to crying in your beer. Hey Im happy Stevie Y will be a Wing forever and ever; like Lindstom to follow; but they are the exceptions not everyone can occupy that symbolic role in an organization. That's why they are held in esteem to inspire future talent. Look to the terrible times of the seveties in Detroit the team seeemed to be gutted every second month.Remember this was the organization that broke up the Howe Delvecchio Mahovlich the number 3 top scoring line in the league. History does have its uses for the future. Holmstrom, Franzen anybody?

In reference to the players you brought up, you're talking about a COMPLETELY different era.

The Red Wings are based on the loyalty system far more than they ever were. Why do you think we're holding onto Chelios, Maltby, McCarty, Drapes, Osgood?

Everyone knows that the Red Wings do not trade away their veteran players. You're the first person I've ever encountered who happens to think they would. Mark my words, Maltby is going nowhere. Nor are any other of the veteran Wings. And if they do - I'll bow down and say you were right.

[Kevvie 0]

After all has been said and done, usually a lot has been said and little has been done. Let's hope Oz uses this time to screw his head on straight and figures out how to stop beach balls from going in the net.

Harsh...maybe a bit. I'm a fan of the guy, but it just seems like his play has been lackluster at best and negligent at worst this season. I'd like to see him back real soon, but only if he's ready to play.

[boomer 0]

Question -- what use would it have been having Downey in that situation? Holmstrom would have still been hurt. Pronger would have still been suspended one game. Enforcers have proven to be useful for the Wings in recent years during the season, not so much in the playoffs. In regards to your analogy about other teams, well, those are other teams. They didn't just win the cup.

Again I won't take you to task on some of your finer point ,such as enforcer effectiveness in the season vs. the playoofs. True the playoffs in general have less fighting, though I have a feeling that this year is going to be different. That aside, when we were playing the Ducks who that year were rather physically intimidating the way Brian Burke likes his teams to be we had no option to respond Immediately after the play. Downie wasn't dressed for the game as shouldn't have been, he' s got no playing skills -right. Now if something like that would occur to say the current Bruins you can be sure a response is coming. Probably Sean Thornton will be the guy , after that its maybe Lucic or Chiarra and there's others.And what that response does is send the message you wanna play eye for an eye we can play to. You want to run one of our stars ,well yours is going down next. The Canadian dynasty of the 70's understood this well when they had to face The Broad Street Bullies. Let me tell you Shultz was scared to fight Larry Robinson cuz he knew Robinson a classy guy and a great defenseman could get his hands dirty if he had too ; and he did pummell Shultz good. Never underestimate what a fight response can do for the morale of a club in a tesion filled situation. Anyhow the Duck eliminated us that year on that turning point. I don't want to see that type of scenario repeated it's hard too watch , therefore we should be ready that is all. Colton Orr or a Chris Neil will do they both know how to play as well.

[boomer 0]

In reference to the players you brought up, you're talking about a COMPLETELY different era.

The Red Wings are based on the loyalty system far more than they ever were. Why do you think we're holding onto Chelios, Maltby, McCarty, Drapes, Osgood?

Everyone knows that the Red Wings do not trade away their veteran players. You're the first person I've ever encountered who happens to think they would. Mark my words, Maltby is going nowhere. Nor are any other of the veteran Wings. And if they do - I'll bow down and say you were right.

Listen I respect all those guys you've mentioned for their various contributions over the years. But I'm the type of armchair GM that believes the circumstances of the day dictate the needs of the present formation on the ice. If their are certain areas that are lacking in the overall team set-up I think you got to make whatever moves are necessary to calibrate the team to optimum capabilities. I guess I'm more from the Lou Lamoriello Devils anybody can be dealt if need be. But not on a whim but on the requirements of the team. On our team right now I see 3 untouchables as does management- Lindstrom, Datz, Zetteberg. That's not saying that there are others that I would be reluctant to let go- I wouldn't let Cleary go but Holmstrom I would if were keeping Franzen. I know it sounds simple and bland but I do think there are areas of our game that need bolstering. And you have to give somthing inorder to get something, or stand pat which I don't suscribe to. By the way wether I'm right or wrong is not ultimately important the teams success is, as I'm sure it is for you.

[Guest Shoreline]

Again I won't take you to task on some of your finer point ,such as enforcer effectiveness in the season vs. the playoofs. True the playoffs in general have less fighting, though I have a feeling that this year is going to be different. That aside, when we were playing the Ducks who that year were rather physically intimidating the way Brian Burke likes his teams to be we had no option to respond Immediately after the play. Downie wasn't dressed for the game as shouldn't have been, he' s got no playing skills -right. Now if something like that would occur to say the current Bruins you can be sure a response is coming. Probably Sean Thornton will be the guy , after that its maybe Lucic or Chiarra and there's others.And what that response does is send the message you wanna play eye for an eye we can play to. You want to run one of our stars ,well yours is going down next. The Canadian dynasty of the 70's understood this well when they had to face The Broad Street Bullies. Let me tell you Shultz was scared to fight Larry Robinson cuz he knew Robinson a classy guy and a great defenseman could get his hands dirty if he had too ; and he did pummell Shultz good. Never underestimate what a fight response can do for the morale of a club in a tesion filled situation. Anyhow the Duck eliminated us that year on that turning point. I don't want to see that type of scenario repeated it's hard too watch , therefore we should be ready that is all. Colton Orr or a Chris Neil will do they both know how to play as well.

It's well too late for something like that now, unless Kenny sees any of the guys in now being expendable (already have Leino and Helm as plugs who are earning their stay) for an enforcer. I just don't see who and how. The ideology of an enforcer is something I partake to, as I don't trust the refs to manage the on-ice physical play, however, the Wings haven't seen the need for much of it this year. Earlier in the season I, too, was arguing for an enforcer, but the team has actually got better without needing an enforcer thusfar. The stories of yore you gave are great and all but I don't see what place idealism has when it comes to here and now.

[Carman 387]

I think it's time to send Howard down to "re-focus".

Agreed also should send down Zetterberg with him.