NHL Awards! You pick who do you think deserves what

[bellarina 1]

Art Ross Trophy - Whio Cares??

Lester B. Pearon Award - Pavel Datsyuk

Hart Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Venzina Trophy - Martin Brodeur but if I could I'd give it to Pavel Datsyuk

Norris Trophy - Nicklas Lidstrom

Calder Trophy - Who Cares??

Lady Byng Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Frank Selke Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Jack Adams - Babs

Maurice "Rocket" Richard - Who Cares??

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Art Ross Trophy - Sidney Crosby

Dun dun duuuuun.

[eva unit zero 271]

Really? Really? Can we please take the homer glasses off. Please!

Ok, so pick someone other than Malkin. I picked the best defenseman, you picked the guy currently leading the league in points. If mine's a homer pick, so's yours. Especially since mine has been the best defenseman six times in the last seven seasons, as well as winning a Conn Smythe trophy and captaining his team to a Cup in that time. What has your pick done? Homer.

[Guest NumbaSixty-Six]

Ok, so pick someone other than Malkin. I picked the best defenseman, you picked the guy currently leading the league in points. If mine's a homer pick, so's yours. Especially since mine has been the best defenseman six times in the last seven seasons, as well as winning a Conn Smythe trophy and captaining his team to a Cup in that time. What has your pick done? Homer.

This. This is FULL of FAIL. First off, Norris goes to defencemen with most points aka Mike Green. Second, jesus christ, I think Lidstrom is top 3 best defenceman ever but c'mon! What he did for the past 6 seasons doesn't mean jacks*** so please shut up... its this season and this season only.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

First off, Norris goes to defencemen with most points aka Mike Green.

Facts, I got some for you.

[Guest NumbaSixty-Six]

Facts, I got some for you.

*Yawn*, 99.6% of the time it goes to the defencemen with the most pts.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

*Yawn*, 99.6% of the time it goes to the defencemen with the most pts.

Usually top 3-5, not first, actually. Just to pick nice round number, in the last decade the Norris winner has been the leading scorer amongst defensemen only 4 of 10 times.

Being a good scorer is important, but being the leader does not, nor has it ever, guaranteed anything.

[Guest Shoreline]

Usually top 3-5, not first, actually. Just to pick nice round number, in the last decade the Norris winner has been the leading scorer amongst defensemen only 4 of 10 times.

Being a good scorer is important, but being the leader does not, nor has it ever, guaranteed anything.

I can only offhand think of a few defenseman in recent years who weren't in the top 5 or so in scoring and/or +/- who won the Norris. Sufficed to say, offensive stats matter the most to the people voting on the Norris candidate since there are no defensive stats for d-men. That's why Mike Green would by far have the best chance at winning the Norris if the votes were today. The guy leads the league for defensemen in points and that's including an injury. He has 10-13 less games than others, and has more than 1 point per game average, and a very respectable +/-. The only other person that can realistically beat him out is Lidstrom and he won't do it unless he has an amazing finish. Another intangible that Mike Green has on his side is attention, something Lids hasn't been getting much of.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Shoreline

[eva unit zero 271]

This. This is FULL of FAIL. First off, Norris goes to defencemen with most points aka Mike Green. Second, jesus christ, I think Lidstrom is top 3 best defenceman ever but c'mon! What he did for the past 6 seasons doesn't mean jacks*** so please shut up... its this season and this season only.

Ok, so I'm not allowed to pick Lidstrom for the Norris because he doesn't lead all defensemen in points, despite the fact he's better defensively than every defenseman in the Southeast division COMBINED? Oh darn, Lidstrom didn't quite score as many points as Mike Green.

Well, let's look at another comparison. Brian Rafalski vs. Mike Green. Yes, Green holds a decent lead in points when you consider games played...but Rafalski has always been considered a very solid defensive defenseman while Green is considered to be a pretty significant liability. Rafalski vs Green comes out perhaps as a wash or with a slight edge to Green in their performances this season. Now considering that...How exactly would you compare Rafalski and Lidstrom? I would say Lidstrom is considerably better than Rafalski. Just because Washington's offense relies more on fewer players (FACT) does not make Green a better player.

Being completely honest, I would question whether Green is actually as talented a player as Niklas Kronwall. He's a good player, but he's not the best at his position and his having scored many points doesn't change that. Yes, points affect award voting. You know what else does? Games played; Green has missed 13. Plus, if Lidstrom scores better than a PPG over the last dozen games...Green's points don't matter. But the fact that Detroit has three excellent defensemen doesn't mean Nicklas Lidstrom isn't the best player in the league. It's as I say about Hart trophy selection...the Hart trophy is not about the best player, it's about the player who has done the most for his team in terms of what they would have achieved otherwise, not what he personally achieved. Hence my choice of the Vezina-contending Backstrom, who has played about 60 games for a team that I feel will end up making the playoffs as they are among the hottest teams in the league. Without Backstrom, Minnesota is last place in the league...probably by ten points.

[Guest NumbaSixty-Six]

(BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH)

To be honest Lidstrom could win the Norris with Chara being runner up, idc. This all started because you called Lidstrom the Best player in the world. Maybe 3 years ago he was the best player in the world, but now I really really don't think so. He isn't a better defencemen than Alexander Ovechkin is a LW, see what I am saying?

Edited March 16, 2009 by NumbaSixty-Six

[eva unit zero 271]

To be honest Lidstrom could win the Norris with Chara being runner up, idc. This all started because you called Lidstrom the Best player in the world. Maybe 3 years ago he was the best player in the world, but now I really really don't think so. He isn't a better defencemen than Alexander Ovechkin is a LW, see what I am saying?

I would say Lidstrom is a better D than Ovechkin is a LW. and btw, this all started because you asked for everyone's opinions on awards. My opinion on the best player is Lidstrom. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't have started the thread. Ovechkin certainly makes the top 5 at worst of all players.

Basically, if you were drafting a team for one tournament, who would be first on your draft list? Malkin? Lidstrom? Ovechkin? Datsyuk? Crosby? Zetterberg? Chara?

The question is basically "If you were picking from the entire NHL, any player, who would you pick to start your team for a tournament?" I know we would have a lot of different answers, but mine would be Lidstrom.

You are arguing that Lidstrom isn't the best player in the world because you don't think Lidstrom has been the best defenseman in the league, so clearly picking him as the best player is a homer pick.

[interminded 1]

Art Ross Trophy - Malkin, PIT

Lester B. Pearson - Ovechkin, WAS

Hart Trophy - Thomas, BOS

Vezina Trophy - Thomas, BOS

Norris Trophy - Green, WAS

Calder Trophy - Mason, COL

Lady Byng Trophy - Datsyuk, DET

Selke Trophy - Federov, WAS

Rocket Richard Trophy - Ovechkin, WAS

Jack Adams Trophy - McLellan, SJS

[unexplainable 0]

Sreit, Wideman and Green all have a better case for the Norris then Lidstrom does this season.

Previous seasons should have nothing to do with it, as such, the Norris shouldn't be an automatic for Lidstrom just because he won it in the past. Its entirely based on this season and this season, Lidstrom is respondsible

Lidstrom is the highest paid player on this team, he has the reputation of being the best defenseman in the league and by many Wings fans and Swedes as being the best player in the world. He has played average at best, not by Lidstrom standards but by superstar standards.

If you're the highest paid player on the team, you're expected to perform at a very high level. Datsyuk is doing that, Lidstrom is our best defenseman but hes not playing at the level he played just a couple seasons ago.

Hes aging, his skating has taken a hit and hes not overly physical. Problem with that? No and hes a great fit for this team and will continue to be our #1 D man. But that doesn't mean hes a Norris winner. Unless you're awarding it based on purely past performance, which would be a joke.

Datsuyk actually has a claim to the Byng and Selke. This season, in comparison to last is nearly identical, except hes going to score more points. Logically, if he won last year, he'll win again this year. The same could hold true for Lidstrom if he was performing at the same level as last season but he has not.

[Ich_Tarne_Eimer 0]

who is this mason-guy playing in Nashville or alternatively Colorado?

[Dano33 41]

Sreit, Wideman and Green all have a better case for the Norris then Lidstrom does this season.

Previous seasons should have nothing to do with it, as such, the Norris shouldn't be an automatic for Lidstrom just because he won it in the past. Its entirely based on this season and this season, Lidstrom is respondsible

Lidstrom is the highest paid player on this team, he has the reputation of being the best defenseman in the league and by many Wings fans and Swedes as being the best player in the world. He has played average at best, not by Lidstrom standards but by superstar standards.

If you're the highest paid player on the team, you're expected to perform at a very high level. Datsyuk is doing that, Lidstrom is our best defenseman but hes not playing at the level he played just a couple seasons ago.

Hes aging, his skating has taken a hit and hes not overly physical. Problem with that? No and hes a great fit for this team and will continue to be our #1 D man. But that doesn't mean hes a Norris winner. Unless you're awarding it based on purely past performance, which would be a joke.

Datsuyk actually has a claim to the Byng and Selke. This season, in comparison to last is nearly identical, except hes going to score more points. Logically, if he won last year, he'll win again this year. The same could hold true for Lidstrom if he was performing at the same level as last season but he has not.

Streit pretty much can't win it due to the team he is on. Green has points and nothing else, he is basically a forward with no defensive skills.

Wideman has a case, but i don't see how it can be better than Lidstrom's, considering most don't believe wideman is the best dman on his team.

[eva unit zero 271]

Sreit, Wideman and Green all have a better case for the Norris then Lidstrom does this season.

Previous seasons should have nothing to do with it, as such, the Norris shouldn't be an automatic for Lidstrom just because he won it in the past. Its entirely based on this season and this season, Lidstrom is respondsible

Lidstrom is the highest paid player on this team, he has the reputation of being the best defenseman in the league and by many Wings fans and Swedes as being the best player in the world. He has played average at best, not by Lidstrom standards but by superstar standards.

If you're the highest paid player on the team, you're expected to perform at a very high level. Datsyuk is doing that, Lidstrom is our best defenseman but hes not playing at the level he played just a couple seasons ago.

Hes aging, his skating has taken a hit and hes not overly physical. Problem with that? No and hes a great fit for this team and will continue to be our #1 D man. But that doesn't mean hes a Norris winner. Unless you're awarding it based on purely past performance, which would be a joke.

Datsuyk actually has a claim to the Byng and Selke. This season, in comparison to last is nearly identical, except hes going to score more points. Logically, if he won last year, he'll win again this year. The same could hold true for Lidstrom if he was performing at the same level as last season but he has not.

Streit, Wideman, and Green have all had good seasons. But Lidstrom's paycheck or the fact that less was expected out of them than was of Lidstrom has NOTHING to do with Lidstrom being more or less deserving of the Norris than they are. If you seriously think a player's paycheck or what fans expect of him should actually be a factor in whether he wins an award, then Andreas Lilja and Kyle Quincey should be First-Team All-Stars this year. Lidstrom was the best defenseman, therefore Lidstrom deserves the Norris. Chara, Boyle, Weber, Keith, Wideman, Rafalski, Green, and Markov would probably be my remaining top ten this year, in no order.

Datsyuk doesn't have a logical claim to the Selke. I have made this post in many other threads; Datsyuk spent most of the first half of the season centering the Wings' first line with Hossa and Holmstrom, the purpose of the line being almost exclusively offensively and any defense from the line a bonus. Zetterberg, who was now centering the Wings' second line, was being used to center some varying combination of wingers such as Cleary and Franzen, or Franzen and Samuelsson, or Cleary and Samuelsson...but always wingers who could play well at both ends of the ice. Why? Because Zetterberg's line was being used as the team's primary shutdown line. Now, if Zetterberg, and not Datsyuk, is getting the shutdown assignments...wouldn't that indicate that the team was viewing him, and not Datsyuk as its most capable defensive forward? And even then, Zetterberg is still used as much for offense as he is for defense. But at very least, it would cast doubt on the idea that Datsyuk was the best defensive forward in the league, as there are forwards like Kesler, Pahlsson, and Fedorov out there whose primary role is to shut down the opposing scorers and who are quite good at what they do.

As far as Datsyuk winning the Lady Byng...you basically justified your choice of Dats winning it by saying "He won it before, he should win it again right?" right after saying that Lidstrom shouldn't win the Norris because he's not so far ahead of the pack that he should be a near unanimous selection as he has been in the past.

Edited March 16, 2009 by eva unit zero

[mjlegend 155]

Here's the list Mr. 66 wants us to produce:

Art Ross Trophy - Malkin

Lester B. Pearon Award - Malkin

Hart Trophy - Malkin/Crosby (tie)

Vezina Trophy - Fleury

Norris Trophy - Orpik

Calder Trophy - Goligoski

Lady Byng Trophy - Malkin

Frank Selke Trophy - Crosby

Jack Adams - Therrien Bylsma

Maurice "Rocket" Richard - Malkin

Masterson - Crosby

[Guest NumbaSixty-Six]

Here's the list Mr. 66 wants us to produce:

f*** you. My list was clearly Non Homer.

[Guest NumbaSixty-Six]

Here's the list Mr. 66 wants us to produce:

Art Ross Trophy - lidstrom

Lester B. Pearon Award - Lidstrom

Hart Trophy - Lidstrom

Vezina Trophy - Conkblock

Norris Trophy - Lidstrom

Calder Trophy - lenio

Lady Byng Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Frank Selke Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Jack Adams - BabCOCK (sucker)

Maurice "Rocket" Richard - Zetterberg

Masterson - Lidstrom[/quo I am never coming back here.... Far too homer. Can't even talk hockey...

Edited March 16, 2009 by NumbaSixty-Six

[eva unit zero 271]

Here's the list Mr. 66 wants us to produce:

Art Ross Trophy - lidstrom

Lester B. Pearon Award - Lidstrom

Hart Trophy - Lidstrom

Vezina Trophy - Conkblock

Norris Trophy - Lidstrom

Calder Trophy - lenio

Lady Byng Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Frank Selke Trophy - Pavel Datsyuk

Jack Adams - BabCOCK (sucker)

Maurice "Rocket" Richard - Zetterberg

Masterson - Lidstrom

I am never coming back here.... Far too homer. Can't even talk hockey...

You're the one who started calling out perfectly legitimate lists as homers (my list was very similar to yours, had fewer Wing selections than most, btw, and I have been arguing against those selecting Datsyuk for Selke) while refusing to admit that your own list could be viewed as a homer list in certain selections. Ah yes, the board is what is being far too homeriffic.

Edited March 16, 2009 by eva unit zero

[mjlegend 155]

My serious list, seeing as #66 is currently PMSing.

Art Ross Trophy - Malkin

Lester B. Pearson Award - ??? Whoever the players like. Could be anyone but Avery for all I know

Hart Trophy - ??? Whoever the writers like. See Pearson.

Vezina Trophy - ????

Norris Trophy - ????

Calder Trophy - Mason

Lady Byng Trophy - St. Louis, unless he starts instigating fights.

Frank Selke Trophy - ????

Jack Adams - MacLellan

Maurice "Rocket" Richard - Ovie, but if he gets hurt this week, Parise will catch up.

Masterson - Connolly or Sullivan

[dicksmack 33]

Art Ross Trophy - Malkin, PIT

Lester B. Pearson - Ovechkin, WAS

Hart Trophy - Thomas, BOS

Vezina Trophy - Thomas, BOS

Norris Trophy - Chara, BOS

Calder Trophy - Mason, COL

Lady Byng Trophy - Datsyuk, DET

Selke Trophy - Datsyuk, DET

Rocket Richard Trophy - Ovechkin, WAS

Jack Adams Trophy - McLellan, SJS

I picked Datsyuk for the Selke again due to the following:

Unlike other elite scorers, Datsyuk thinks defense first at all times. His back-checking is the best I've seen. He doesn't need to cherry pick as he can stickhandle past guys with ease. That his +/- is at the top of the league is amazing given the performance of the goalies and the D this year. His line-mates have varied this year aside from that SPEED DEMON Holmstrom, who's been with him all year. This cancels out any advantage in terms of linemates, I think. Datsyuk's +/- is due to his defense-first approach, not his linemates. Pav's high takeaway/low giveaway ratio, his faceoff win %, his high +/-, his strength and his ability to clear the defensive zone with mind-bending moves are all in the "Win" column for the Selke.

There is no "shutdown" line on the Wings top 2 lines. They go against the league's best interchangably, which is quite a luxury for Coach Babcock. You just can't put Datsyuk in a primarily defensive role because of his elite scoring ability--it's strategically silly; however, if you did, he be the best at it. Last year, Datsyuk's league best two-way ability trumped the whole "primary shut-down role" argument. He's that good.

For me, it comes down to Datsyuk and Richards. Somehow, I think the Wings' being famous for poor defensive

play this year may undeservedly taint Datysuk's reputation for a great two-way game. But how many nights when the Wings gave up 6 or move goals did you see Pav even or +1?

[Booster313 138]

Ok, so I'm not allowed to pick Lidstrom for the Norris because he doesn't lead all defensemen in points, despite the fact he's better defensively than every defenseman in the Southeast division COMBINED? Oh darn, Lidstrom didn't quite score as many points as Mike Green.

Well, let's look at another comparison. Brian Rafalski vs. Mike Green. Yes, Green holds a decent lead in points when you consider games played...but Rafalski has always been considered a very solid defensive defenseman while Green is considered to be a pretty significant liability. Rafalski vs Green comes out perhaps as a wash or with a slight edge to Green in their performances this season. Now considering that...How exactly would you compare Rafalski and Lidstrom? I would say Lidstrom is considerably better than Rafalski. Just because Washington's offense relies more on fewer players (FACT) does not make Green a better player.

Being completely honest, I would question whether Green is actually as talented a player as Niklas Kronwall. He's a good player, but he's not the best at his position and his having scored many points doesn't change that. Yes, points affect award voting. You know what else does? Games played; Green has missed 13. Plus, if Lidstrom scores better than a PPG over the last dozen games...Green's points don't matter. But the fact that Detroit has three excellent defensemen doesn't mean Nicklas Lidstrom isn't the best player in the league. It's as I say about Hart trophy selection...the Hart trophy is not about the best player, it's about the player who has done the most for his team in terms of what they would have achieved otherwise, not what he personally achieved. Hence my choice of the Vezina-contending Backstrom, who has played about 60 games for a team that I feel will end up making the playoffs as they are among the hottest teams in the league. Without Backstrom, Minnesota is last place in the league...probably by ten points.

To piggy back on this is you are solely looking at points Kyle Quincey is like the 10th best defensemen in the league....and we all know that's not true.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

His line-mates have varied this year aside from that SPEED DEMON Holmstrom, who's been with him all year. This cancels out any advantage in terms of linemates, I think.

He's played lots of regular shifts with Hossa and Zetterberg, less with Franzen and Cleary, the first lot more capable than the last, but all very good players. As for Homer, he's not a good skater but he works hard at fighting for the puck in the corners and getting it back to Pavel so he can work his magic; it would be folly to dismiss how he helps make ZDH (or whatever mutation thereof) click so well.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[Datsyerberger 279]

eva is a serious downer on Datsyuk and has been pretty sore about it ever since the Selke last year, but I'm going to agree with him on Lidstrom. He has dropped off a little this year, yes, but that just narrows the gap. Here was last year:

Lidstrom

Ovy, Dats, Crosby, Malkin, Chara, etc.

Now this year it's more like:

Lidstrom

Ovy, Dats, Chara, Malkin, Crosby, etc

Edited March 16, 2009 by Datsyerberger