Lovin Jiri Fischer 147 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 In a heartbeat. He played through as much pain, probably more, he scored at a much faster clip, was almost as good defensively (hell, for part of his career he was better defensively). Mario averaged abbout 1.7 points per game in both the playoffs and the reg season, Yzerman about .66 and .9 respectively. Both went without some salary for the good of the team. Yzerman: 1988-89 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1997-98 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1999-00 NHL Frank J. Selke Trophy 2002-03 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 3 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold Medal 1 Wrld Cup Mario: 1984-85 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy 1985-86 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1987-88 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1987-88 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1987-88 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1988-89 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1990-91 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1991-92 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1991-92 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1992-93 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1992-93 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1992-93 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 1992-93 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1995-96 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1995-96 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1995-96 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1996-97 NHL Art Ross Trophy 2 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold 2 World Cups Just because you win a bunch of trophies doesn't mean you're a great leader. Look at Crosby and Ovechkin. Both win a ton of trophies. Both have great stats. One likes to punch guys in the balls and attack them right off the faceoff. One immaturely celebrates after goals. Neither of them are great leaders. I would much rather have Yzerman's leadership over Mario's individual trophies. The name on the front is more important than the one on the back, and Yzerman played that way. Mario is another story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McCartyFanForLife 17 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 In a heartbeat. He played through as much pain, probably more, he scored at a much faster clip, was almost as good defensively (hell, for part of his career he was better defensively). Mario averaged abbout 1.7 points per game in both the playoffs and the reg season, Yzerman about .66 and .9 respectively. Both went without some salary for the good of the team. Yzerman: 1988-89 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1997-98 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1999-00 NHL Frank J. Selke Trophy 2002-03 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 3 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold Medal 1 Wrld Cup Mario: 1984-85 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy 1985-86 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1987-88 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1987-88 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1987-88 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1988-89 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1990-91 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1991-92 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1991-92 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1992-93 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1992-93 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1992-93 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 1992-93 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1995-96 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1995-96 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1995-96 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1996-97 NHL Art Ross Trophy 2 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold 2 World Cups As I stated, you are clearly not the biggest Yzerman fan if you like Mario more than Yzerman. I would say it's a high probability that people are fans of Yzerman for his work ethic and leadership than for the awards he brought home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 Observation by JR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) <sigh> Mario Lemieux was a great leader - though perhaps not Yzerman-great. I never said I like Mario better than Yzerman. There are lots of players who I've liked better that I wouldn't take over someone else. I loved Cam Neely, I loved Steve Yzerman, I loved PJ Stock, I loved Dave Semenko, I loved Ron Francis and I still love Joe Sakic. I wouldn't take anyo of them over Mario Lemieux, even though I like all of them better. Edited March 23, 2009 by micah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted March 23, 2009 You will never find a bigger Yzerman fan than me - but if the wings could have had Mario instead, I'd be all up on that. I can find hundreds of bigger Yzerman fans than you in this very subforum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 He'd be alright in my book if the NHL and EVERY single media outlet wasn't harping about him 24/7 putting him up on a pedastal and saying this is your hockey god, worship him. I don't see any NHL commercials featuring anyone except Crosby. Crosby is not the type of player the NHL should be using as their icon and neither is Ovetchkin, they aren't iconic legends, leaders, or heros, they just score goals. I played in high school and you see their type, and you live to blast them with the hardest open ice hit you can think of. The thing is, that's not his fault. He didn't come out and tell the media to worship his every move. If there's one thing (and the only thing) I think he needs to work on its his on-ice whining. The players have noticed it to a point where almost 50% of them singled him out as the biggest whiner in the NHL. Other than that, he's an incredible talent that the league has taken to in hopes of creating Gretzky-like buzz. Whether we like it or not, its understandable what the media is doing. Some people (not necessarily you) just need to learn how to deal with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 When people say Crosby "sucks" they don't mean "he sucks at hockey." Last time I checked, saying someone "sucks" seeks to encompass that person entirely. And Crosby has done/said more than enough stupid things to warrant that label. It comes down to this: a lot of people hate Crosby because he comes off as a dick - he rarely comes off as a down to earth, likeable guy. People don't like to see assholes succeed. Since Crosby is definitely successful when it comes to hockey, hes hated by a ton of hockey fans. And those fans proceed to ***** about how much hes on TV, because if you know that an ******* is succeeding, you sure as hell dont want to be reminded of it. This. You will never find a bigger Yzerman fan than me - but if the wings could have had Mario instead, I'd be all up on that. Talent-wise, maybe. But Lemieux is a ******, whereas Stevie is the definition of class and leadership. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 In a heartbeat. He played through as much pain, probably more, he scored at a much faster clip, was almost as good defensively (hell, for part of his career he was better defensively). Mario averaged abbout 1.7 points per game in both the playoffs and the reg season, Yzerman about .66 and .9 respectively. Both went without some salary for the good of the team. Yzerman: 1988-89 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1997-98 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1999-00 NHL Frank J. Selke Trophy 2002-03 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 3 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold Medal 1 Wrld Cup Mario: 1984-85 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy 1985-86 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1987-88 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1987-88 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1987-88 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1988-89 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1990-91 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1991-92 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1991-92 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1992-93 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1992-93 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1992-93 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 1992-93 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1995-96 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1995-96 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1995-96 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1996-97 NHL Art Ross Trophy 2 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold 2 World Cups Mario was NEVER better defensively than Yzerman. Yzerman is the only player to ever score 150+ points and receive even a single first-place vote for the Selke in the same season. Yzerman only scored 150+ points once, while Mario scored 150+ points many times, as did Gretzky. Yzerman was a Selke nominee multiple times and actually won the trophy. Defensive ability was not even close to comparable. Yzerman was a FAR better all-around player than either Lemieux or Gretzky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 In a heartbeat. He played through as much pain, probably more, he scored at a much faster clip, was almost as good defensively (hell, for part of his career he was better defensively). Mario averaged abbout 1.7 points per game in both the playoffs and the reg season, Yzerman about .66 and .9 respectively. Both went without some salary for the good of the team. Yzerman: 1988-89 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1997-98 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1999-00 NHL Frank J. Selke Trophy 2002-03 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 3 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold Medal 1 Wrld Cup Mario: 1984-85 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy 1985-86 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1987-88 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1987-88 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1987-88 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1988-89 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1990-91 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1991-92 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1991-92 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy 1992-93 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1992-93 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1992-93 NHL Bill Masterton Trophy 1992-93 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1995-96 NHL Art Ross Trophy 1995-96 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 1995-96 NHL Lester B. Pearson Trophy 1996-97 NHL Art Ross Trophy 2 Stanley Cups 1 Oly Gold 2 World Cups We have a winner! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted March 23, 2009 Your second statement contradicts the first. If you would have rather had Mario, then there are plenty of bigger Yzerman fans than you. Pittsburgh can continue its love affair with Mario and Crosby. I'd rather have Yzerman than both of those players on my team. Nobody beats THE Captain CHA-CHING! Rack'em. Post of The Day! Stevie Y motivated the unmotivatable, inspired the uninspirable. He made the great ones even greater. Hall of Fame hockey players were moved and inspired by a man named Steve Yzerman to dig to the depths of their hearts and give more than they ever knew they had. He lead great men to find depths inside themselves they never knew existed. If ever there was a rogue it was Dominik Hasek. For him to say the things about Yzerman that he did says a lot: "He is our leader..I mean we saw him on the ice every shift (injured)..he is probably the biggest reason we came back against Vancouver" (Opening series 2002 Stanley CUp Playoffs). Luke Robitaille on Stevie Y: "For us, for me so far, I mean, he is our MVP...he is the one that made the biggest difference for our team." Kirk Maltby: "When you see him getting up off the ice your whincing in pain with him, but when you see your Captain sacrificing his body to block shots, taking hits, then on top of it he"s scoring goals and creating goals, as a player and a teammate you can't help but go out there and just go out there and try and do everything you possibly can as well." Sergei Fedorov: "To see how much pain he's going thru, and not be able to skate the way he used to and the way you want to, but still kept going, I know it I think...those kind of thoughts keot me even more wanting to do well and win and play probably the hardest I ever did". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted March 24, 2009 We have a winner! I suppose you'd rather have Messier than either if winning Cups is so important that it is the trump card, eh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted March 24, 2009 Mario was NEVER better defensively than Yzerman.font] LOL. Let me guess, you didn't watch a whole lot of hockey in the mid-eighties, did you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted March 24, 2009 I suppose you'd rather have Messier than either if winning Cups is so important that it is the trump card, eh? Messier is a decent example, but if you are looking for someone who has won a lot of cups, I'd go with Henri Richard....who has won 11 as a player (pretty crazy when you think about that for a minute). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted March 24, 2009 Messier is a decent example, but if you are looking for someone who has won a lot of cups, I'd go with Henri Richard....who has won 11 as a player (pretty crazy when you think about that for a minute). Agreed - even considering the number of teams in the league at the time, that is an amazing achievement, and one that will not likely be duplicated in our lifetimes, barring drastic changes to the league. I thought about mentioning the Pocket-Rocket, but I anticipated the responses of "It was a different era!" so I figured Mess was a better example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lovin Jiri Fischer 147 Report post Posted March 24, 2009 Regardless of Mario's skill, hockey is not about having the best players on your team. It's about having the right players on your team. Mario might have been great in Pittsburgh, but that is no reason to believe he would have been great here. On the other hand, Yzerman was perfect in Detroit. He fit into the team's philosophy in a really great way. Eventually, the entire team kind of molded their attitudes around him. He might not have put up the numbers but he was perfect in Detroit. And for you to say that you wold rather have Mario over the teamwork and leadership that Yzerman brought to this depleted team (which still exists now even after he retired as it was passed down to Lidstrom) shows that you know very little about teamwork and more about statistics. Mario's stats were great, but he's retired now and so the stats mean nothing. Yzerman is retired now, but his leadership and the class that he demonstrated and taught this team still lives on and it's a huge reason why the Wings have been a great team for nearly two decades (a huge accomplishment in today's NHL). So it's pretty obvious which is important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
