Concussion keeps Andreas Lilja's career on hold

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I think the point is with fighters on the team/bench/whatever, a lot of this hot-headed bulls*** after the whistle doesn't happen. Everyone and their mother knows you can smack the Wings around and all you'll get is chatter back. It DOES have an affect on team play whether people want to admit it or not.

esteef

Not really. Everyone is afraid of our enforcer, known as the powerplay.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Here's a little list of names I came up with. Pretty much I would trade somebody like Lebda, Lilja, Kopecky, Meech, etc.. for:

Player Ice Time

Mike Commodore 22:52

Regehr 21:29

Bieksa 23:46

O'Donnell 20:28

Matt Greene 19:57

Staois 19:45

Salvador 19:42

Gleason 20:44

Backes 17:39

Fisher 18:33

Clowe 17:45

Dubinsky 16:46

Colin White 18:59

Komisarek 20:33

Montador 16:17

Jason Smith 17:32

Witt 20:05

Malone 17:35

Moen 15:01

Doug Murray 16:30

Moreau 15:36

O'Brien 15:07

Boynton 16:51

Talbot 14:16

Walker 16:25

Clarkson 12:25

Crombeen 12:33

Laperierre 13:35

Gaustad 16:08

Exelby 16:42

McCleod 10:58

Carcillo 11:45

Erskine 16:37

Mair 10:36

Mayers 10:20

Sutherby 10:46

Voros 11:15

Stewart 12:08

Vandermeer 15:39

Neil 10:48

Torres 11:55

Scott Walker 13:33

Sutton 20:14

Davison 10:05

There are plenty of players in the NHL, and this list isn't nearly all of them, that are capable hockey players who know how to handle a fight. As for enforcers, probably aside from Erskine and Neil, and perhaps Carcillo, there really aren't any "enforcers" on this list. The players are out there. It's just up to Kenny to round out the roster a little better in the future. Anyone who tells me we can't use one of these players in place of Meech or Lebda or Kopecky, has got their head up their ass if you ask me.

I don't disagree that there are guys in the NHL that have grit, play tough and can fight, however, I do have a problem with your list (at least some of it). You say you would "trade somebody like Lebda, Lilja, Kopecky, Meech" for the guys on the list. If you take the first 3 guys on your list (I'm not going to look all them up I'm too lazy but I realize some make considerably less than the first three) Commodore makes $3,750,000, Regehr makes $4,020,000, and Bieksa makes $3,750,000. All of those are huge pay increases over the guys you mentioned. In fact if you take the salary of all 4 of the guys that you mentioned you would trade the total is $2,883,333 - you could trade away all four guys and still be roughly $1,000,000 short of any of those guys salaries. Those guys all make a fair bit ($750,000) more than Kronwall and at least as much as Stuart so one of those two guys would be a more realistic comparison. I don't think anyone wouldn't trade one of the 4 guys on the Wings you mentioned for any of those first 3 guys on your list but especially with our current cap problems there is no way. Pre-cap it would have been no big deal for the Wings to trade a $500,000 contract for a $4,020,000 but to do that now we would have to lose one of Hudler, Hossa, or Mule (in addition to which ever we will lose this summer) to absorb one of those upgrades.

[Phazon 24]

stuart has really played like garbage lately, where did his playoff 08 form go?

[russianswede919293 95]

And this is the reason why many Wings fans, myself included, have been screaming for this team to get bigger, stronger, tougher and adding some players who really know how to fight. All the talk of our PP being our enforcer only works until it doesn't work anymore. And when Lilja gets his brain wrecked by Shea Weber....and when Jim Vandermeer drills Johan Franzen with a straight right, sending him to the ice.....we are flirting with disaster.

IMO, a heavyweight fighter is not going to do the trick. You need to fill out the roster with 1-2 forwards and at least 1 dman that can throw punches. In his prime a guy like Jason Smith comes to mind. Guys like Ethan Moreau, Mike Brown, Maxim Talbot, Jamal Mayers, etc....contributing, regular shift players who know how to fight and defend themselves.

I hope Lils is ok. Its so frustrating to watch one of our guys get beat up like that and not even throw a single punch in return.

IMO: A dallas drake would do the trick...

[yoops14 0]

What happens if you play games with headaches? could the blood-vessel's in your head explode and damage the brain? Just wondering....

It's not really about playing games with headaches, it's about playing games with lingering post-concussion symptoms. I guess the worst case scenario for anyone in sports medicine is what's called Second Impact Syndrome. This can occur following a concussion or head injury where the symptoms haven't resolved. Basically, there's still bleeding somewhere in the brain causing those symptoms and if the person takes another hit or jostle or shove, the brain is re-injured and can instantaneously swell and hemorrhage. Nothing the medical staff can do to save the athlete's life.

None of us in sports medicine want someone dying on our watch, especially if it's a preventable situation (i.e. Lilja sitting because of continued post-concussion symptoms), so that's why athletic trainers and sports medicine physicians are particularly conservative with head injuries. As an ATC, I'm not particularly conservative on many things (I'm fine with letting anyone play with a sprained knee/sprained ankle/muscle strain as long as they're functional), but head and neck injuries I am extremely cautious with.

[skacore 2]

I feel horrible that Lilja's career may be in jeopardy because he is the only form of toughness we have on our team , he's just not made for the part...

[Datsyerberger 279]

The fact of the matter is maybe that's not Andreas Lilja in that situation. You think Jason Smith is going to stand there with his head down like Lilja and not even throw a punch? You think a guy like Robyn Regehr is going to do that? Or Kevin Bieksa? Hell no, those guys are far more capable.

You're missing one thing. Lilja usually gets punches in. He didn't this time because Weber started the fight after Lilja's hit, and got the first 2 punches in.. and one of those punches is the one that absolutely rattled him. That could have happened to anyone.

The problem here is that Lilja is the only regular on the roster who's willing to play tough guy on a semi-regular basis, and sooner or later, something like that was bound to happen, just due to statistical chances.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I feel horrible that Lilja's career may be in jeopardy because he is the only form of toughness we have on our team , he's just not made for the part...

I agree. A player coming into his best Pro season ever is sidelined because of a role when the score was 0-5 that he felt like he had to spark his team. That's not the role of one of your top D-men or penalty killers. On our Ken Holland aged team it is; however.

At least Lilja dropped the gloves... Sammuelson and Franzzen both desparetely are overdue for an ass kicking from their tough guy personna then hugfest post whistle.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

You're missing one thing. Lilja usually gets punches in. He didn't this time because Weber started the fight after Lilja's hit, and got the first 2 punches in.. and one of those punches is the one that absolutely rattled him. That could have happened to anyone.

You guys really don't understand do you...? My Goodness gracious... Lilja's a tough person to fill, tough guys first off often don't end up out due to concussion and if they do they are replaceable and often aren't in the lineup anyhow IN THE POSTSEASON.

Everyone on here makes the point that the enforcer doesn't play in the postseason, EXACTLY, his role is to keep the core players from having to do the dirty work in the REGULAR SEASON...

[wingslionstigers 12]

If we had enforcers a valuable guy like lilja wouldnt have to fight.

[VM1138 1,921]

If we had enforcers a valuable guy like lilja wouldnt have to fight.

This is complete and utter horses***. I'm so tired of people wanting to waste a roster spot on someone who can do nothing but fight. Injuries happen. Lilja wasn't exactly one of our skill guys. He can block shots, yeah, and we sorely need that. But Lilja is a big guy who can handle himself. This was a freak accident.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

I didn't know or think it was this bad. I hope he'll get better real soon!

[Dabura 12,232]

If we had enforcers there would be no cancer, or poverty, or racism, or global warming.

[VM1138 1,921]

If we had enforcers there would be no cancer, or poverty, or racism, or global warming.

Don't forget, if we had enforcers the other team would forget how to play hockey and thus we would win every game.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

This is complete and utter horses***. I'm so tired of people wanting to waste a roster spot on someone who can do nothing but fight. Injuries happen. Lilja wasn't exactly one of our skill guys. He can block shots, yeah, and we sorely need that. But Lilja is a big guy who can handle himself. This was a freak accident.

Hopefully this is your attempt at sarcasm, but it's FAR from a freak accident. Let me give you a quick definition of a freak accident: A guy is walking down the road, reaches down to pick up a $1 bill and falls into a sewer with the lid missing to his death.

Lilja, not a fighter, stepping up for his team down 0-5 and fighting when an enforcer should have been. Is not a freak accident sir, it's stupid management and our top pkiller doing someone else's job that holds a position in AAA.

[Dabura 12,232]

Also, all the stray kittens in the world would suddenly be transported back to their owners via beams of heavenly light.

[mjlegend 155]

If we had enforcers, the US auto industry wouldn't have needed a bailout.

[Cern 0]

I suppose it's not impossible that Lilja would have skated away and made sure Downey (or whoever) took care of Weber. Would that have happened? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Certainly, in this case, there was nobody on Detroit's bench who would have been capable of standing up to Weber, so maybe Lilja figured "well, I gotta stick up for myself, because my team isn't willing to hire anyone to do it for me."

Sure, then Downey's the one getting headaches a month afterward and the roster is left in the exact same spot everyone in LGW incessantly complains about.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

This is complete and utter horses***. I'm so tired of people wanting to waste a roster spot on someone who can do nothing but fight. Injuries happen. Lilja wasn't exactly one of our skill guys. He can block shots, yeah, and we sorely need that. But Lilja is a big guy who can handle himself. This was a freak accident.

Let me guess, you're not anti-enforcer? You just want a tough guy with Probert-like scoring touch around the net, right?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You all have absolutely no idea how much I wish for an enforcer-free thread/debate on here permanently. If that ever happens, I'm going on a cruise in celebration. Threads about the subject or threads being hijacked into the subject easily surpass goalie threads as the most annoying/broken recorded on here now. How many threads can be spun into the topic without people saying the same stuff over and over again when nobody's opinion is going to change? Seriously? How many ways can you beat a dead horse?

Yeah yeah yeah I know what's coming, you are complaining, you don't have to post in the thread, blah blah blah...

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

And this is the reason why many Wings fans, myself included, have been screaming for this team to get bigger, stronger, tougher and adding some players who really know how to fight.

You must be forgetting the context of the situation. Lilja skated up to Weber, at the end of his own shift, and slammed him to the ice from behind without any immediately preceding provocation. That was incredibly stupid on his part if he wasn't ready to fight (as some have suggested), but maybe he was, and in any event, Weber came up and due to Lilja actions it was go time. He was either going to fight or turtle.

I hope Lils is ok. Its so frustrating to watch one of our guys get beat up like that and not even throw a single punch in return.

In his defense, he said himself that he was essentially KO'd standing up. The first punch scrambled his brains and unfortunately he didn't fall over, turning a one-hit knockout into what appeared to be a beatdown. He's a good fighter, but sometimes you lose.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

If we had enforcers there would be no cancer, or poverty, or racism, or global warming.

Let's no forget that there would be no more AIDS. That helps.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

You all have absolutely no idea how much I wish for an enforcer-free thread/debate on here permanently. If that ever happens, I'm going on a cruise in celebration. Threads about the subject or threads being hijacked into the subject easily surpass goalie threads as the most annoying/broken recorded on here now. How many threads can be spun into the topic without people saying the same stuff over and over again when nobody's opinion is going to change? Seriously? How many ways can you beat a dead horse?

Yeah yeah yeah I know what's coming, you are complaining, you don't have to post in the thread, blah blah blah...

Did you in your infinite wisdom ever stop to consider that maybe those topics are exactly what people are most frustrated about with this team?

Hence that's why they come to LGW to ***** about those things. Since you're so smart, maybe you should tell everyone else what it is that we should be discussing instead.

[Frozen-Man 144]

You all have absolutely no idea how much I wish for an enforcer-free thread/debate on here permanently. If that ever happens, I'm going on a cruise in celebration. Threads about the subject or threads being hijacked into the subject easily surpass goalie threads as the most annoying/broken recorded on here now. How many threads can be spun into the topic without people saying the same stuff over and over again when nobody's opinion is going to change? Seriously? How many ways can you beat a dead horse?

Yeah yeah yeah I know what's coming, you are complaining, you don't have to post in the thread, blah blah blah...

That is about the funniest picture I have every seen. That is awesome! You know what cracks me up about the whole subject - there are some guys like GMR and ManLoveforCleary who post on this subject but also post on all the other hockey subjects which is awesome and adds to the overall site and then there are guys like ESAD who almost never post about anything else (and only trash the Wings) who always make me wonder why they like the Wings in the first place, they hate the players, the team, the coach, and the management - there are teams that are exactly what they whine about wanting but would rather hate everything about "their team."

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I don't disagree that there are guys in the NHL that have grit, play tough and can fight, however, I do have a problem with your list (at least some of it). You say you would "trade somebody like Lebda, Lilja, Kopecky, Meech" for the guys on the list. If you take the first 3 guys on your list (I'm not going to look all them up I'm too lazy but I realize some make considerably less than the first three) Commodore makes $3,750,000, Regehr makes $4,020,000, and Bieksa makes $3,750,000. All of those are huge pay increases over the guys you mentioned. In fact if you take the salary of all 4 of the guys that you mentioned you would trade the total is $2,883,333 - you could trade away all four guys and still be roughly $1,000,000 short of any of those guys salaries. Those guys all make a fair bit ($750,000) more than Kronwall and at least as much as Stuart so one of those two guys would be a more realistic comparison. I don't think anyone wouldn't trade one of the 4 guys on the Wings you mentioned for any of those first 3 guys on your list but especially with our current cap problems there is no way. Pre-cap it would have been no big deal for the Wings to trade a $500,000 contract for a $4,020,000 but to do that now we would have to lose one of Hudler, Hossa, or Mule (in addition to which ever we will lose this summer) to absorb one of those upgrades.

Yes, I was well aware of that. I was simply pointing out the abundance of players of that type, filling out the other 29 NHL rosters.