Contract talks between Wings and Hossa, Franzen on hold

[titanium2 867]

At best, the cap will go up to around 58 mil and then go down the year after. They could plan as if the cap were to go up to 58 and then rely on Nick's contract coming off the books to mitigate the cap going down for the next year. But that's a real tight rope walk.

[Red Crazy 201]

You'd make a tremendous GM.

Stuff the long term, lets only focus on the short term!

And your plan is????

I agree this may not be the best plan but you will lose players of great talent either way.

One thing that you are not considering is that we may lose BOTH Hossa and Franzen. I am NOT hating on Flip or Kronner I was simply picking two roster players that have high salaries that could be moved to make way for Hossa or Franzen and replacing them with young players with low salaries that are currently part of the team.

Hard to say that anybodys plan sucks when we don't know the numbers involved. This was a suggestion.

And I agree I would make a tremendous GM. Thank you.

[dallas27 7]

Offense:

Hossa (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Leino (.975) - Zetterberg (6) - Hudler/Sammy (1.5)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.7

1 mil under the cap. All you have to do is trade Flip. Sammy or Hudler will take 1.5.

[MacK_Attack 108]

1 mil under the cap. All you have to do is trade Flip. Sammy or Hudler will take 1.5.

I don't think you can trade $3 million today (esp. a contract that runs through '10/'11) without taking salary back.

[frederick9125 0]

If players really wanna stay they will work it out. rework current contracts and new will take less

[Guest mindfly]

Keep Franzen AND Hossa, trade any player necessary and in the same time maybe they won't be as deep but i'll prefer having both those players cause they are just amazing and fits so well.

[frederick9125 0]

Offense:

Hossa (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Leino (.975) - Zetterberg (6) - Hudler/Sammy (1.5)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.7

1 mil under the cap. All you have to do is trade Flip. Sammy or Hudler will take 1.5.

I like it! always try to move Ralfaski even tho has a NTC to keep the mule. And bring up kindl

[MacK_Attack 108]

If players really wanna stay they will work it out. rework current contracts and new will take less

Not allowed under the CBA.

[frederick9125 0]

well crap, was just thinking how yzerman and shanny took less for hull, didn't know it change when started cba

[Red Crazy 201]

Offense:

Hossa (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Leino (.975) - Zetterberg (6) - Hudler/Sammy (1.5)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.6) - Abdelkader (.74)

Meech (.483) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Kronwall (3)

Ericcson (.9) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.717)

TOTAL : 55.7

1 mil under the cap. All you have to do is trade Flip. Sammy or Hudler will take 1.5.

I like this. Not sure about Oz/Howie but looks great otherwise.

[eva unit zero 271]

Players signed to contracts with the Detroit Red Wings for 2009-10 who I would expect to be in the National Hockey League next season:

C Datsyuk $6,700,000

C/LW Zetterberg $6,083,333

F Filppula $3,000,000

F Cleary $2,800,000

W Holmstrom $2,250,000

F Draper $1,583,333

W Maltby $883,333

F Helm $599,444

D Lidstrom $7,450,000

D Rafalski $6,000,000

D Stuart $3,750,000

D Kronwall $3,000,000

D Lilja $1,250,000

D Ericsson $900,000

D Lebda $650,000

D/F Meech $483,333

G Osgood $1,416,667

G Howard $716,667

Total $49,516,110

Free cap space $7,183,890

8 Forwards, 8 Defensemen, 2 Goaltenders signed. The Wings currently have the following players (6F, 1D, 1G) as free agents:

W Hossa $7.45m

W Samuelsson $1.25m

F Hudler (RFA) $1.015m

F Franzen $941,667

F Leino (RFA) $875k

F Kopecky $500k

D Chelios $750k

G Conklin $750k

The contracts I expect to be signed by the Wings are the following cap hits:

W Hossa $6m/yr

F Hudler $1.8m/yr

W Samuelsson $1.35m/yr

F Leino $1m/yr

F Kopecky $575k/yr

Total $10.725m for 5 forwards, up to a total of 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies.

This pushes the Wings' total cap hit up to $60,241,111; this is $3,541,111 over the current cap.

The Wings have two realistic trade options to get underneath the cap. Option 1, assuming a trade would be accepted, is to trade Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit for picks and prospects. This drops the team down to a 22-man roster and is underneath the cap. Option 2 is to trade both forward Valtteri Filppula and defenseman Brett Lebda, either together or separately for picks and/or prospects. They would provide enough cap clearance together, but $100k less than Stuart alone would.

Option 3, assuming Franzen is willing to sign for the same $3m Filppula makes, trade all three of Stuart/Filppula/Lebda. Kindl also gets promoted in this scenario, which fits under the cap just barely unless you replace the re-signing of Samuelsson with promotion of Abdelkader.

Option 4 if Franzen is willing to sign at close to $3m is for Ken Holland to explore trading Dan Cleary depending on his NTC requirements, as well as replacing Mikael Samuelsson with Justin Abdelkader on the roster if necessary to save cap space. This is similar to Option 3, except that it requires the Abdelkader move and allows the Wings to keep Filppula.

Option 1

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa

Leino/Filppula/Samuelsson

Cleary/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Option 2

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Leino/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Helm

Meech

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Stuart/Lilja

Meech

Osgood

Howard

Option 3

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Kopecky/Leino

Abdelkader/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Option 4

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Kopecky/Filppula/Leino

Abdelkader/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Edited March 25, 2009 by eva unit zero

[frederick9125 0]

Players signed to contracts with the Detroit Red Wings for 2009-10 who I would expect to be in the National Hockey League next season:

C Datsyuk $6,700,000

C/LW Zetterberg $6,083,333

F Filppula $3,000,000

F Cleary $2,800,000

W Holmstrom $2,250,000

F Draper $1,583,333

W Maltby $883,333

F Helm $599,444

D Lidstrom $7,450,000

D Rafalski $6,000,000

D Stuart $3,750,000

D Kronwall $3,000,000

D Lilja $1,250,000

D Ericsson $900,000

D Lebda $650,000

D/F Meech $483,333

G Osgood $1,416,667

G Howard $716,667

Total $49,516,110

Free cap space $7,183,890

8 Forwards, 8 Defensemen, 2 Goaltenders signed. The Wings currently have the following players (6F, 1D, 1G) as free agents:

W Hossa $7.45m

W Samuelsson $1.25m

F Hudler (RFA) $1.015m

F Franzen $941,667

F Leino $875k

F Kopecky $500k

D Chelios $750k

G Conklin $750k

The contracts I expect to be signed by the Wings are the following cap hits:

W Hossa $6m/yr

F Hudler $1.8m/yr

W Samuelsson $1.35m/yr

F Leino $1m/yr

F Kopecky $575k/yr

Total $10.725m for 5 forwards, up to a total of 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies.

This pushes the Wings' total cap hit up to $60,241,111; this is $3,541,111 over the current cap.

The Wings have two realistic trade options to get underneath the cap. Option 1, assuming a trade would be accepted, is to trade Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit for picks and prospects. This drops the team down to a 22-man roster and is underneath the cap. Option 2 is to trade both forward Valtteri Filppula and defenseman Brett Lebda, either together or separately for picks and/or prospects. They would provide enough cap clearance together, but $100k less than Stuart alone would.

Option 3, assuming Franzen is willing to sign for the same $3m Filppula makes, trade all three of Stuart/Filppula/Lebda. Kindl also gets promoted in this scenario, which fits under the cap just barely unless you replace the re-signing of Samuelsson with promotion of Abdelkader.

Option 4 if Franzen is willing to sign at close to $3m is for Ken Holland to explore trading Dan Cleary depending on his NTC requirements, as well as replacing Mikael Samuelsson with Justin Abdelkader on the roster if necessary to save cap space. This is similar to Option 3, except that it requires the Abdelkader move and allows the Wings to keep Filppula.

Option 1

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa

Leino/Filppula/Samuelsson

Cleary/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Option 2

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Leino/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Helm

Meech

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Stuart/Lilja

Meech

Osgood

Howard

Option 3

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Kopecky/Leino

Abdelkader/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Option 4

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Kopecky/Filppula/Leino

Abdelkader/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

I take Option 3, save and let go off sammy, and bring up someone, Leino is a RFA also. bring him back defently. And I think that if by chance an injury happens bring in Larsson and see what he can do.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Players signed to contracts with the Detroit Red Wings for 2009-10 who I would expect to be in the National Hockey League next season:

C Datsyuk $6,700,000

C/LW Zetterberg $6,083,333

F Filppula $3,000,000

F Cleary $2,800,000

W Holmstrom $2,250,000

F Draper $1,583,333

W Maltby $883,333

F Helm $599,444

D Lidstrom $7,450,000

D Rafalski $6,000,000

D Stuart $3,750,000

D Kronwall $3,000,000

D Lilja $1,250,000

D Ericsson $900,000

D Lebda $650,000

D/F Meech $483,333

G Osgood $1,416,667

G Howard $716,667

Total $49,516,110

Free cap space $7,183,890

8 Forwards, 8 Defensemen, 2 Goaltenders signed. The Wings currently have the following players (6F, 1D, 1G) as free agents:

W Hossa $7.45m

W Samuelsson $1.25m

F Hudler (RFA) $1.015m

F Franzen $941,667

F Leino $875k

F Kopecky $500k

D Chelios $750k

G Conklin $750k

The contracts I expect to be signed by the Wings are the following cap hits:

W Hossa $6m/yr

F Hudler $1.8m/yr

W Samuelsson $1.35m/yr

F Leino $1m/yr

F Kopecky $575k/yr

Total $10.725m for 5 forwards, up to a total of 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies.

This pushes the Wings' total cap hit up to $60,241,111; this is $3,541,111 over the current cap.

The Wings have two realistic trade options to get underneath the cap. Option 1, assuming a trade would be accepted, is to trade Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit for picks and prospects. This drops the team down to a 22-man roster and is underneath the cap. Option 2 is to trade both forward Valtteri Filppula and defenseman Brett Lebda, either together or separately for picks and/or prospects. They would provide enough cap clearance together, but $100k less than Stuart alone would.

Option 3, assuming Franzen is willing to sign for the same $3m Filppula makes, trade all three of Stuart/Filppula/Lebda. Kindl also gets promoted in this scenario, which fits under the cap just barely unless you replace the re-signing of Samuelsson with promotion of Abdelkader.

Option 4 if Franzen is willing to sign at close to $3m is for Ken Holland to explore trading Dan Cleary depending on his NTC requirements, as well as replacing Mikael Samuelsson with Justin Abdelkader on the roster if necessary to save cap space. This is similar to Option 3, except that it requires the Abdelkader move and allows the Wings to keep Filppula.

Option 1

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa

Leino/Filppula/Samuelsson

Cleary/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Option 2

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Leino/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Helm

Meech

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Stuart/Lilja

Meech

Osgood

Howard

Option 3

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Kopecky/Leino

Abdelkader/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Option 4

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Kopecky/Filppula/Leino

Abdelkader/Draper/Helm

Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Ericsson

Meech/Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

Where's your scenario where Hud's gets an offer sheet that the Wings' can't match? That would really hurt your hopes of having him center the second line.

[eva unit zero 271]

Where's your scenario where Hud's gets an offer sheet that the Wings' can't match? That would really hurt your hopes of having him center the second line.

Well, if it's Option 1 (Stuart is traded) and Hudler is offered a contract that is $2.6m or less, then the Wings can match it and let Samuelsson leave as a UFA. If it's below $2.41m, they match the offer, and can promote Abdelkader to fill Samuelsson's spot with equal or lesser overall cap hit.

If it's Option 2 (Filppula and Lebda are traded) and the offer is at/below $2.41, Samuelsson can be replaced by Abdelkader.

If it's Option 3 or Option 4, and the offer is below $2.6, and the Wings can complete a roster while matching Hudler's offer, then they match.

If it's over 2.6m, then it would depend what the offer is as to whether the Wings can match it, but the Wings letting Hudler go at that offer is definitely ok if they have to because they get a 1st pick and 3rd pick at least, depending on the offer. $4m plus will add a second pick, and at $5.2m there's another first involved. Over $6.5m sees those four picks all turn into first rounders.

That said, I don't expect to see another team making an offer on Hudler that the Wings can't match. Think about it...the cap is expected to be going down in the next few years; who throws out an offer for Hudler that Detroit can't match given the economic scenario?

[eva unit zero 271]

I think people are on drugs if they think Franzen will take $3 million.

Hossa might *might* do $6.45 if Holland signs him to a Zetterberg type contract.

No, Franzen won't sign for $3m. It's what he SHOULD sign for, $3m or less....but he won't.

[gcom007 1,465]

I didn't read to see if it's been said, but given the nature of the situation, waiting 'til June seems wise to me. I half-wonder if this is just a purposeful stall. I wouldn't be shocked if contracts were already in place and agreed upon. The thing is, if they sign both guys, and I'm thinking they will, some guys know they're out. I don't think anyone wants that distraction in the playoffs. Letting the team just focus on the playoffs moving forward is the best move if you ask me. No distractions. Save the rest for the post-season.

[gcom007 1,465]

And deep down though, I'm thinking Hossa signs and buys into the system at a great price and Franzen walks. Hudler and Sammy stay. More young guys come up. It would hurt us to lose Franzen, but we've got some young guys that can play and they'll only get better and the reality is Hossa is a better all-around player than Franzen. Hossa's complete. He's as good on D as he is scoring goals and I'm still convinced he works harder than anyone out there. It's great for the young guys to see a star hustle like he does and on a cheap contract at that.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

And deep down though, I'm thinking Hossa signs and buys into the system at a great price and Franzen walks. Hudler and Sammy stay. More young guys come up. It would hurt us to lose Franzen, but we've got some young guys that can play and they'll only get better and the reality is Hossa is a better all-around player than Franzen. Hossa's complete. He's as good on D as he is scoring goals and I'm still convinced he works harder than anyone out there. It's great for the young guys to see a star hustle like he does and on a cheap contract at that.

Hudler and Sammy are gone if Hossa stays. And outside of Leino (who would likely have to be traded too - check the numbers) the Wings dont have anyone in the system who can step in and be a good offensive forward. Helm and Abdelkaders are checkers at best.

[TheOwl 77]

Offense:

Zetterberg (6) - Datsyuk (6.7) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Flipulla (3) - Franzen (4) - Hudler (1.5)

Cleary (2.8) - Sammy (1.5) - Leino (.975)

Kopetcy (0.8) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

Defense:

Lidstrom (7.45) - Stuart (3.75)

Ralfaski (6) - Ericcson (.9)

Meech (.5) - Lilja (1.25)

Lebda (.650)

Goalie:

Osgood (1.417) Buy-Out

Conklin (1.5)

Howard (.7)

TOTAL : 54.7

2 mil under the cap. All you have to do is trade Kronwall. Honestly, the team you just posted would barely make the play-offs, Howard and Osgood in goal? 3 rookie forwards, and Meech who's a D-man? No reason to blow up the team by losing Flipulla, Conklin, Franzen and one of Hudler/Sammy, just to keep Hossa. Hossa is not worth losing those 4 players, when we can easily replace Kronwall with Ericcson, and keep everyone.

Think about it. Hudler and Sammy combined score more goals, more points then Hossa, why let two proven 50 point scorers leave, to keep a 80 point guy. Especially when Hossa will cost likely DOUBLE what Hudler and Sammy will take COMBINED. No point in signing Hossa to lose Flipulla, Sammy/Hudler. No reason.

The Wings don't need another 6 million dollar player. The core is here. Get cheap proven 50 point/year scorers to fill the spaces for 2-3 million. If Franzen will take 3-4 million, it's a no brainer. Hossa is extremely over-rated, he's a top 20 forward in the league, maybe, but he's not worth losing these home grown players.

Osgood and Howard is not the answer. What if we get knocked out in the first round? Unless we win the Cup, I guarantee Osgood won't be here next year. He's an extreme liability.

Think about it, Hossa at 6, or Franzen at 3, Hudler 1.5, Sammy 1.5. What would you do? Even one of the two and Franzen is better then Hossa.

Edited March 25, 2009 by TheOwl

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler and Sammy are gone if Hossa stays. And outside of Leino (who would likely have to be traded too - check the numbers) the Wings dont have anyone in the system who can step in and be a good offensive forward. Helm and Abdelkaders are checkers at best.

Right now, the current Wings roster has 7 forwards and 7 defensemen signed for next season. If you add F Helm, D Ericsson, and G Howard, who are basically locks, then the Wings have just over $7m in cap space if the cap stays the same. Say we move Meech to forward full time. Now we're at 9-7-2. We need to sign 4 forwards with that $7m we have.

What you're missing is not that people would have to be traded. You're missing that contract(s) would have to be moved to open up cap space. If Hossa signs for $6m, the Wings don't have enough space to fill out the roster. They can sign two bare minimum forwards and run with 12-7-2, using Lebda as the spare forward if necessary. Or they can trade Brad Stuart for picks/prospects, and sign Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky, and run Meech as a defenseman.

[Guest Four]

Mule should do a Hank type-d deal and get

5M-5M-5M-5M-5M-5M-5M-2.5M-2.5M-1M-1M

11 yrs, 3.8M cap hit

[Guest mindfly]

Mule should do a Hank type-d deal and get

4M-4M-4M-4M-4M-4M-4M-2.5M-1M-1M-1M

11 yrs, 3M cap hit

Fixed it for ya

Edited March 25, 2009 by mindfly

[dawings1905 2]

Where's all the Hudler's better than Franzen folks???

Crickets.........

Franzen 55pts 63 games played

Huds 54 pts 74 games played.

Now, I know there will be some people that will stubbornly stick with Huds till the end, but those are the same ones that would argue with a hole in a tree. To me there is no question, if it is Huds or Franzen, Franzens a no brainer. I think I recall saying something like that before this streak though, and being in the minority. I also think I remember Ansar saying the same thing. hmmmm... Don't know where this came from by the way. I'll stop being a jerk now.

[eva unit zero 271]

Where's all the Hudler's better than Franzen folks???

Crickets.........

Franzen 55pts 63 games played

Huds 54 pts 74 games played.

Now, I know there will be some people that will stubbornly stick with Huds till the end, but those are the same ones that would argue with a hole in a tree. To me there is no question, if it is Huds or Franzen, Franzens a no brainer. I think I recall saying something like that before this streak though, and being in the minority. I also think I remember Ansar saying the same thing. hmmmm... Don't know where this came from by the way. I'll stop being a jerk now.

Well, let's take a quick look at those numbers again:

ESTOI:

Franzen: 914:43

Hudler: 779:38

PPTOI:

Franzen: 175:49

Hudler: 221:50

ES Scoring:

Franzen: 19g-16a-35pt

Hudler: 16g-12a-28pt

PP Scoring:

Franzen: 11g-8a-19pt

Hudler: 6g-20a-26pt

SH Scoring:

Franzen: 1g-0a-1pt

Hudler: 0g-0a-0pt

So, those are the raw numbers. To clarify the scoring difference between the two, we're going to project the ES scoring to 1000:00, and the PP scoring to 250:00, both of which are very close to Pavel Datsyuk's ice time numbers.

ES Scoring:

Franzen: 21g-17a-38pt

Hudler: 21g-15a-36pt

PP Scoring:

Franzen: 16g-11a-27pt

Hudler: 7g-23a-30pt

SH Scoring:

Franzen: 1g-0a-1pt

Hudler: 0g-0a-0pt

Total Scoring:

Franzen: 38g-28a-66pt

Hudler: 28g-38a-66pt

So projected to even ice time, the two come out even. This is after Hudler has gone through a major slump and Franzen has been hot on the scoresheet for a couple weeks. Hudler also doesn't have the luxury of playing with top players like Franzen does. So tell me then, who's better?

[gcom007 1,465]

Hudler and Sammy are gone if Hossa stays. And outside of Leino (who would likely have to be traded too - check the numbers) the Wings dont have anyone in the system who can step in and be a good offensive forward. Helm and Abdelkaders are checkers at best.

I'm not convinced. I think some other guys might go before Hudler and Sammy. I think they know what they've got here in Detroit and they're coming off solid years. Sammy's improved a lot in his time here and he's certainly been good for a few clutch goals. Hudler with more ice time, confidence, experience and better linemates could pick up some of the score slack if Franzen leaves. My gut still think's there's a real good chance Flip's gone despite everything they say. He's got some moves and a bit of sense, but he just doesn't have the fire to be a finisher and that rarely manifests itself out of nowhere.